The Biden administration (was: The NEW 2020 Election Thread)

[pilferk]

If Republicans actually cared about voter identification, they'd pass these laws along with free IDs for those who don't have one. But they don't, which exposes it as the anti-democratic attack on voting rights that it is.

The only way this works is:

Free ID.

Free transportation to get sed ID and/or ID centers in EVERY neighborhood (so urban dwellers can easily walk there).

ID centers open 24/7, 365 (ensuring fair access to people who work traditional "open" hours).

ID centers that can issue instant IDs at every polling place on election day.

No requirement for an address to get ID (because what about those that are homeless, or transient workers).

No requirement for validating documentation other than voter registration validation to get ID (because you can't descriminate against those without an address, drivers license, unable to receive mail, who have lost or never had a social security card/birth certificate, etc).

So, essentially, the ID has to be so easy to get that it almost invalidates having an ID.  Anyone and everyone has to be able to easily obtain it, for free.

And, you know what would happen if this type of program ACTUALLY became a federal program?  Republicans would complain it is too expensive!

Voter ID is just one more Republican sham to try to justify leaving out the people they don't want to vote.  It's as transparent as Saran wrap.

[jarmo]

We don't have free ID cards. But they're also required when you vote.

Elections are on Sundays. Or you can vote in advance. Bring your voting papers (that are sent to your home address in advance) and ID with you.


Basically managing without any kind of ID is difficult. Especially if you're younger. You'll get asked for ID when buying wine if you're under 40....

Picking up a box at the post office? Need ID.





/jarmo

[tim_m]

You want my opinion (that I’m sure you guys will disagree with)?  I think every American deserves the right to vote, under some conditions. If you are a criminal and don’t abide by the laws in our country, then your right is taken away.  Up for debate would be what crimes exactly take away that right  On top of that, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that every American citizen show their proof of ID in order to vote (like we do for so many other things in this country/world).  If some have trouble getting an ID (something I’m not familiar with) then we need to make that easier for them…but I do think an ID should be required.  If you want to call that restricting voting, then so be it. I call it having a system that we abide by.   

I swear topics like these get so out of control simply because people just take the side of whatever their leaders say. If those leaders changed course next week, these same people would follow suit.

If Republicans actually cared about voter identification, they'd pass these laws along with free IDs for those who don't have one. But they don't, which exposes it as the anti-democratic attack on voting rights that it is.

Or allow more forms of acceptable ID.

[PermissionToLand]

And, you know what would happen if this type of program ACTUALLY became a federal program?  Republicans would complain it is too expensive!

Ain't that the truth! They talk a big game about "efficiency" and "fiscal responsibility", but have no problem blowing tons of money on useless walls, fighter jets the DOD says it doesn't need and more. It's only when the huddled masses are in need that suddenly their pockets are dry.

[PermissionToLand]

We don't have free ID cards. But they're also required when you vote.

Elections are on Sundays. Or you can vote in advance. Bring your voting papers (that are sent to your home address in advance) and ID with you.


Basically managing without any kind of ID is difficult. Especially if you're younger. You'll get asked for ID when buying wine if you're under 40....

Picking up a box at the post office? Need ID.

Your country also doesn't have a legacy of racial voting discrimination, or have individual states (including those with a repeatedly proven propensity to discriminate) run federal elections, I presume.

North Carolina republicans (but both sides are the same, right?) were caught gerrymandering their districts, in the words of the NC Supreme Court, targeting African Americans "with surgical precision" to disenfranchise them. This, shortly after republicans (both sides?) gutted the Voting Rights Act, claiming that discrimination was a thing of the past.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/01/north-carolina-voter-id-law-blocked-discriminatory

Also, in America the drinking age is higher than the voting age and elections are on weekdays and you can't vote in advance for the most part.

[jarmo]

I guess here when people don't vote, it's more their choice than someone making it difficult for them to vote.


Here the legal drinking age is 18, but to buy a bottle of wine in the store you have to be 20...




/jarmo

[pilferk]

We don't have free ID cards. But they're also required when you vote.

Elections are on Sundays. Or you can vote in advance. Bring your voting papers (that are sent to your home address in advance) and ID with you.


Basically managing without any kind of ID is difficult. Especially if you're younger. You'll get asked for ID when buying wine if you're under 40....

Picking up a box at the post office? Need ID.

/jarmo

In the US, any sort of Poll Tax is illegal.

If you require an ID to vote....but have to pay for the ID...you've basically created a poll tax.

If you have to pay to get an ID, then you are essentially saying (with Voter ID laws) you have to pay to vote.

Which disenfranchises some segment of voters, unfairly.

I actually have no issue with requiring ID to vote...so long as the ID required is accessible to everyone.  Not almost everyone, everyone.  And the only way to do that is to make it free and easy to acquire.

If you charge for it, it excludes poor voters who can't afford it.

If you make it hard to acquire....like limiting issuing locations and forcing people to travel to out of the way places (especially in areas where people don't often own vehicles) or appear there during normal business hours when they are at work....you are excluding working class and urban voters.

Quick question: You say voter ID cards aren't free in Sweden.  What happens to those that can't afford them? Or is that not a thing?

[jarmo]

Quick question: You say voter ID cards aren't free in Sweden.  What happens to those that can't afford them? Or is that not a thing?

I'm not aware of that being a thing. I assume that even if you're on welfare, you're assumed to have an ID card.


Most people have a driving license, ID card and/or passport.




/jarmo

[cineater]

Quick question: You say voter ID cards aren't free in Sweden.  What happens to those that can't afford them? Or is that not a thing?

I'm not aware of that being a thing. I assume that even if you're on welfare, you're assumed to have an ID card.


Most people have a driving license, ID card and/or passport.




/jarmo

I can answer that.  Most people on welfare have an id card and can register to vote at the welfare office.  I would say most people in the US do not have a passport and never leave the country.

Whenever you apply or recertify for SNAP or cash assistance, the DTA worker is required to tell you how you can register to vote and assist you with voter registration. 106 C.M.R. § 360.950. If you apply in person, you can get a Voter Registration Form at the local DTA office. If you apply for SNAP online or file a paper SNAP application – and you check off that you wish to register to vote – DTA should mail a Voter Registration Form back to you. DTA is required to send the completed Voter Registration Form to your city or town election office with 5 business days of receipt.

We actually verified identity some of which came out of our own records and access to government records.  It's been a good 20 years since that rule went into effect.

[pilferk]

I'm not aware of that being a thing. I assume that even if you're on welfare, you're assumed to have an ID card.


Most people have a driving license, ID card and/or passport.

/jarmo

For most voter ID laws on the books, they want a drivers license or state issued ID. Basically a photo ID.  SOME of those states with photo id laws will allow a student or work picture ID...but not many.

It costs, in my state, roughly $120 to get a drivers license And roughly $100 every 6 to 8 years to renew it.  And the issuing departments are not well or centrally located....with hours that are not conducive for the working class (mostly weekday hours, with limited, day time hours on Saturday).  

There is a NEW non-driver ID card option in CT which is more reasonable in cost ($30-ish), which is better, but still a poll tax. Another $30 every 6 or 7 years, I think.  Same issue with actually GETTING to the issuing department HQs.

Very few people have passports, and it takes awhile to get one. It costs $165 for a new passport, and $130 for renewal.  That precludes the cost of getting the photo you need for one.  It currently takes 8 to 11 weeks to get your passport from the time you apply.

For someone working federal minimum wage (7.25 an hour), 40 hours a week, they take home (edit: actually, that's their gross...their net will be something less after taxes) about $290 a week.

That's quite the poll tax....especially if a state doesn't offer a VERY cheap (and I'd say $30 is still on the pricey side for those with little means) non-driver state ID option.

[pilferk]

Quick question: You say voter ID cards aren't free in Sweden.  What happens to those that can't afford them? Or is that not a thing?

I'm not aware of that being a thing. I assume that even if you're on welfare, you're assumed to have an ID card.


Most people have a driving license, ID card and/or passport.




/jarmo

I can answer that.  Most people on welfare have an id card and can register to vote at the welfare office.  I would say most people in the US do not have a passport and never leave the country.

Whenever you apply or recertify for SNAP or cash assistance, the DTA worker is required to tell you how you can register to vote and assist you with voter registration. 106 C.M.R. § 360.950. If you apply in person, you can get a Voter Registration Form at the local DTA office. If you apply for SNAP online or file a paper SNAP application – and you check off that you wish to register to vote – DTA should mail a Voter Registration Form back to you. DTA is required to send the completed Voter Registration Form to your city or town election office with 5 business days of receipt.

We actually verified identity some of which came out of our own records and access to government records.  It's been a good 20 years since that rule went into effect.

REGISTERING to vote is a fairly easy process.

The issue is with requiring strict photo ID at the time of voting. 

That's the Republican push.

In CT, we are a request ID state.  The poll worker will request ID, but it can be something as simple as a piece of mail showing you "belong" to the address they have on file.  And, if you can't provide that, you can sign an affidavit attesting that you are who you say you are, and still file a ballot (any time after the first time you vote).

I would call that an easy and reasonable concession.  It still can be problematic for those that are currently homeless, which is unfortunate.  But it accomodates a much larger voter pool than the strict voter ID laws proposed by Republicans.

[cineater]

Quick question: You say voter ID cards aren't free in Sweden.  What happens to those that can't afford them? Or is that not a thing?

I'm not aware of that being a thing. I assume that even if you're on welfare, you're assumed to have an ID card.


Most people have a driving license, ID card and/or passport.




/jarmo

I can answer that.  Most people on welfare have an id card and can register to vote at the welfare office.  I would say most people in the US do not have a passport and never leave the country.

Whenever you apply or recertify for SNAP or cash assistance, the DTA worker is required to tell you how you can register to vote and assist you with voter registration. 106 C.M.R. § 360.950. If you apply in person, you can get a Voter Registration Form at the local DTA office. If you apply for SNAP online or file a paper SNAP application – and you check off that you wish to register to vote – DTA should mail a Voter Registration Form back to you. DTA is required to send the completed Voter Registration Form to your city or town election office with 5 business days of receipt.

We actually verified identity some of which came out of our own records and access to government records.  It's been a good 20 years since that rule went into effect.

REGISTERING to vote is a fairly easy process.

The issue is with requiring strict photo ID at the time of voting. 

That's the Republican push.

In CT, we are a request ID state.  The poll worker will request ID, but it can be something as simple as a piece of mail showing you "belong" to the address they have on file.  And, if you can't provide that, you can sign an affidavit attesting that you are who you say you are, and still file a ballot (any time after the first time you vote).

I would call that an easy and reasonable concession.  It still can be problematic for those that are currently homeless, which is unfortunate.  But it accomodates a much larger voter pool than the strict voter ID laws proposed by Republicans.

 

Yeah it is easy to register to vote.  I still want to be able to vote online.  I can take care for all my financial shit, pay my taxes, things that need a lot more security then my vote in my opinion.

So question, when you look at the number of register voters who actually vote and the number of people not registering, could there be another reason these folks who are thought of being deterred from voting have another cause?

[cineater]

Speaking of taxes, I can run around online and print out all my income forms which I assume are electronically reported to the feds.  Why can't all that electronic information be populated into my tax forms?  I assume at some point, it matches up with what I report and what they have on file.  Just get me started and I can go from there.  They need to pay more attention to simplifying tax filing.

[pilferk]

Speaking of taxes, I can run around online and print out all my income forms which I assume are electronically reported to the feds.  Why can't all that electronic information be populated into my tax forms?  I assume at some point, it matches up with what I report and what they have on file.  Just get me started and I can go from there.  They need to pay more attention to simplifying tax filing.

Turbo Tax pretty much does this for me.....everything from my W2, at least.  Even some of my 1099s.  I have one 1099 I have to hand enter, and my 1098.

[cineater]

Speaking of taxes, I can run around online and print out all my income forms which I assume are electronically reported to the feds.  Why can't all that electronic information be populated into my tax forms?  I assume at some point, it matches up with what I report and what they have on file.  Just get me started and I can go from there.  They need to pay more attention to simplifying tax filing.

Turbo Tax pretty much does this for me.....everything from my W2, at least.  Even some of my 1099s.  I have one 1099 I have to hand enter, and my 1098.

The one I use saves the info from last year and I enter the new amounts.  It's easy enough but I would be happy to give them permission to have those new figures automatically fed into there.  I figure if any individual or foreign country is good enough to crack through all those systems, there's nothing I can do to protect myself. 

[jarmo]

So president Biden gets to name a Supreme Court justice. Will the Repu... MAGA party object?




/jarmo

[cineater]

So president Biden gets to name a Supreme Court justice. Will the Repu... MAGA party object?




/jarmo

The question is do we have an experienced black female, and I'm assuming from the democratic party, for the job?  If you go with limited opportunities and under representation, the pool to draw from should be small.  I don't object to diversity but experience does count.

Come to think of it, Axl had a black female judge when he was in St. Louis, Anna Forder but I think she's retired.

We could use to little humor in this topic, I'll tell you my best judge story.  I go walking into court with my witness, a catholic nun fully dressed in her official nun outfit.  The judge sees her and stands up!  Doesn't sit until she sits and then proceeds to tell her what catholic school his kids go to and what parish he belongs to.  Never seen a judge intimidated.   Yeah we win and nobody gives her any shit on the stand.  Afterwards, she blows past me on the highway in the convent's minivan. 

[pilferk]

There's a solid 7 or 8 candidates who would be GREAT options.  I'm guessing they'll stick with mining the DC Circuit judges and go with Ketanji Brown Jackson, but she's not the only option.

[C0ma]

So president Biden gets to name a Supreme Court justice. Will the Repu... MAGA party object?




/jarmo

This is coming from someone who is far more right leaning that left leaning... BUT having said that, I tend to be more right leaning on fiscal issues and security issues but not social issues.

I cannot see a logical argument from the right against a nomination. Any previous nominations that were argued against (left and right) were in either the final year of a first or second term... while I didn't agree with either argument at the end of Obama's presidency or what wound up being the end of Trumps presidency, this is coming in to the second of Biden's 4 years. Also for the right this doesn't change the balance of power because you are swapping liberal for liberal. The younger the judge the better for the left as you secure that seat for decades... but any argument would be foolish.

*** and just to clarify I don't mean argument against the judge being nominated.... I mean against the ability or ethics around nominating at all...

[cineater]

There's a solid 7 or 8 candidates who would be GREAT options.  I'm guessing they'll stick with mining the DC Circuit judges and go with Ketanji Brown Jackson, but she's not the only option.

Is she from a southern state?  In her 50's?  Has nothing to do with "get Trump"?