Steven Adlers abscence

[TheBaconman]

Exactly. I'm not sure Steven's plan was the same as Axl's. They were in need of a bassist and guitarist, not a drummer. People may like Steven more or think he's a better drummer, same with Izzy. But there are obviously reasons Richard and Frank remained in the band. Who knows what the original plan actually was, I just think very few if any would back up the plan Steven outlined.

It was reported by various sources (other than Steven himself) that Steven was included in early rehearsals, which suggests to me that he was originally set to be included a bit more than he ended up being included.  However, as I said in my first post, I can believe that Steven's back injury was a bigger liability than Steven may want to acknowledge.  I can see how that might have made the band nervous about including him on every show, and playing multiple songs.  But could he have been included a little more than he was?  Probably so, but who knows?

All of that certainly sucks for Steven.  Judging by the huge ovations he received from obviously reunion-hungry crowds, it's obvious that the fans did appreciate his presence and would've loved to see more of him during the entire tour.

Who knows

Perhaps Frank just works cheaper

Perhaps Frank doesn't annoy Axl as much? 

They def didn't pick frank because he has more talent. Or charisma or fans like him more

I say it has to do with my two points

[faldor]

Steven was on with Eddie Trunk last night and went over most of these same issues. He did say though that Fernando has some cool stuff lined up for the 30th AFD anniversary that the fans are going to like. 

[Reunion2016]

Steven was on with Eddie Trunk last night and went over most of these same issues. He did say though that Fernando has some cool stuff lined up for the 30th AFD anniversary that the fans are going to like. 

Steven also told Trunk, "Well, it was January 2, 2016, and Slash and Duff both texted me and said that they wanted to get together and talk to me. So I went down to Duff's house and we had a nice little talk. They had me sign some contract thing and whatnot just so they could talk to me, which is cool; I don't care."

[allwaystired]

Exactly. I'm not sure Steven's plan was the same as Axl's. They were in need of a bassist and guitarist, not a drummer. People may like Steven more or think he's a better drummer, same with Izzy. But there are obviously reasons Richard and Frank remained in the band. Who knows what the original plan actually was, I just think very few if any would back up the plan Steven outlined.

It was reported by various sources (other than Steven himself) that Steven was included in early rehearsals, which suggests to me that he was originally set to be included a bit more than he ended up being included.  However, as I said in my first post, I can believe that Steven's back injury was a bigger liability than Steven may want to acknowledge.  I can see how that might have made the band nervous about including him on every show, and playing multiple songs.  But could he have been included a little more than he was?  Probably so, but who knows?

All of that certainly sucks for Steven.  Judging by the huge ovations he received from obviously reunion-hungry crowds, it's obvious that the fans did appreciate his presence and would've loved to see more of him during the entire tour.

Who knows

Perhaps Frank just works cheaper

Perhaps Frank doesn't annoy Axl as much? 

They def didn't pick frank because he has more talent. Or charisma or fans like him more

I say it has to do with my two points

Factor in reliability there too, as well as (potentially) health/drug issues.

Check out some recent videos of him drumming too- there's no way he could cope with some of the more complex stuff. He's just not up to it, ability wise. This is a professional live show now, with expensive tickets- they couldn't possibly have risked Adler for anything more than small guest spots. Sure fans might get a pop out of seeing him on drums for a song or two, but a whole show in a long tour? No chance. They made the right decision in my view, and I'm guessing they didn't find it easy to make that decision. 

[allwaystired]

Steven was on with Eddie Trunk last night and went over most of these same issues. He did say though that Fernando has some cool stuff lined up for the 30th AFD anniversary that the fans are going to like. 

Steven also told Trunk, "Well, it was January 2, 2016, and Slash and Duff both texted me and said that they wanted to get together and talk to me. So I went down to Duff's house and we had a nice little talk. They had me sign some contract thing and whatnot just so they could talk to me, which is cool; I don't care."

I'd guess he's referring to a non-disclosure form, which is probably standard practice when you're talking about things you want to keep a lid on.

[Ali]

Steven was on with Eddie Trunk last night and went over most of these same issues. He did say though that Fernando has some cool stuff lined up for the 30th AFD anniversary that the fans are going to like. 

Steven also told Trunk, "Well, it was January 2, 2016, and Slash and Duff both texted me and said that they wanted to get together and talk to me. So I went down to Duff's house and we had a nice little talk. They had me sign some contract thing and whatnot just so they could talk to me, which is cool; I don't care."

I'd guess he's referring to a non-disclosure form, which is probably standard practice when you're talking about things you want to keep a lid on.

If he did sign a NDA, talking about everything he talked about could very well have been a violation of the terms of the NDA. I have to wonder, if you can't trust someone to abide by a legally binding agreement they signed, how much can you really trust and rely on them.  Overall, I don't think this round of press Steven has done is going to help engender any good will.  If I were a betting man, I'd say we've seen the last of Adler guesting on a song or two.

Ali

[JAEBALL]

I think the only thing that came off badly was him talking about when he was fired ...

Like Steven we get it ... they were all using too...we all know the story.

The rest of it ... didn't come off that badly ...


He was pretty complimentary of Fernando, Frank and Richard...

He just wishes it was the five of them ... nothing wrong with him thinking that way. Just not gunna happen ...

[Ali]

I think the only thing that came off badly was him talking about when he was fired ...

Like Steven we get it ... they were all using too...we all know the story.

The rest of it ... didn't come off that badly ...


He was pretty complimentary of Fernando, Frank and Richard...

He just wishes it was the five of them ... nothing wrong with him thinking that way. Just not gunna happen ...

He joked about pushing Frank down a flight of stairs. I don't think that's funny, personally.  I find it to be a hint at the resentment he still holds.

IMO, taking your complaints to the press to try and garner always comes off badly, whether your name is Ron Thal or Steven Adler.

Regardless, I don't believe he was ever going to "share" drumming duties with Frank. I don't believe for a second that GN'R would ever even attempt to rely on him to that extent with such an important tour on the line.

Ali

[(t)]

I think the only thing that came off badly was him talking about when he was fired ...

Like Steven we get it ... they were all using too...we all know the story.

The rest of it ... didn't come off that badly ...


He was pretty complimentary of Fernando, Frank and Richard...

He just wishes it was the five of them ... nothing wrong with him thinking that way. Just not gunna happen ...

I don't think any of this comes off that great.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/steven-adler-says-he-only-got-to-talk-to-axl-rose-for-ten-seconds-during-not-in-this-lifetime-tour/

He's running his mouth about Axl every chance he gets. Yeah he says Frank is a nice guy... and that's the only reason he doesn't push him down a flight of stairs. He also says Frank plays the songs wrong. He says the reason why Dizzy, Richard and Melissa are a perfect fit for this band "is 'cause they're like fucking ghosts. 'Cause Axl doesn't wanna see nobody." He spills the beans about Fernando's plans for AFD's 30th when we have no idea whether those plans are actually going to come to fruition, so now there will be expectations and complaints if it doesn't work out.

None of this stuff is particularly complimentary.

[The Wight Gunner]

Well wadda know  http://loudwire.com/steven-adler-heartbreaking-watch-frank-ferrer-play-guns-n-roses/?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=newsletter_4511503

See, we were right....

[Bridge]

If he did sign a NDA, talking about everything he talked about could very well have been a violation of the terms of the NDA. I have to wonder, if you can't trust someone to abide by a legally binding agreement they signed, how much can you really trust and rely on them.

I doubt he violated it.  It probably expired after a certain period of time.  If he signed it January 2, 2016 (as he says), then it could've expired after a year, which would've covered all of the shows Steven ended up doing.  I noticed he didn't say a word in public until after a year had passed and all of his appearances seemed to have ended (for now anyway).

He's running his mouth about Axl every chance he gets. Yeah he says Frank is a nice guy... and that's the only reason he doesn't push him down a flight of stairs. He also says Frank plays the songs wrong. He says the reason why Dizzy, Richard and Melissa are a perfect fit for this band "is 'cause they're like fucking ghosts. 'Cause Axl doesn't wanna see nobody." He spills the beans about Fernando's plans for AFD's 30th when we have no idea whether those plans are actually going to come to fruition, so now there will be expectations and complaints if it doesn't work out.

None of this stuff is particularly complimentary.

No, it isn't complimentary when you're misquoting it and taking it all out of context, which you did on all those counts.

http://loudwire.com/steven-adler-heartbreaking-watch-frank-ferrer-play-guns-n-roses/?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=newsletter_4511503

See, we were right....

Gotta love "I Told You So" posts on issues that were foregone conclusions to begin with.  Did anyone need a web link, a crystal ball, or anything else to reach the syllogism that Steven would want to play more than a couple songs each night?  Gee, I wish I were psychic so I could've figured out that Steven would've wanted to play more than he did.   

He admitted he was heartbroken over it.  Predictable.  Understandable.  Big deal.  Hardly cause for controversy.

I think the only thing that came off badly was him talking about when he was fired ...

Like Steven we get it ... they were all using too...we all know the story.

The rest of it ... didn't come off that badly ...

He was pretty complimentary of Fernando, Frank and Richard...

He just wishes it was the five of them ... nothing wrong with him thinking that way. Just not gunna happen ...

Yep, I said earlier that his rant about 1990 should've been bottled.... for good.  But everything else he's said never came off as anything other than the Steven we know: someone who is very biased towards and passionate about his place and history in Guns N Roses.  His personality is certainly forward and edgy but in these cases, it's only offensive when you automatically search for fault in anything he says.

[(t)]

He's running his mouth about Axl every chance he gets. Yeah he says Frank is a nice guy... and that's the only reason he doesn't push him down a flight of stairs. He also says Frank plays the songs wrong. He says the reason why Dizzy, Richard and Melissa are a perfect fit for this band "is 'cause they're like fucking ghosts. 'Cause Axl doesn't wanna see nobody." He spills the beans about Fernando's plans for AFD's 30th when we have no idea whether those plans are actually going to come to fruition, so now there will be expectations and complaints if it doesn't work out.

None of this stuff is particularly complimentary.

No, it isn't complimentary when you're misquoting it and taking it all out of context, which you did on all those counts.

I took selections out of context (with a link to where I got them from) to contest the suggestion that Steven's comments didn't come off badly, because they did when I read them. I didn't hear the actual broadcast. What did I misquote?

[Executioner]

Most will agree that the band are playing pretty well on this tour and Axl sounds good,however a lot of criticism is directed towards Frank not that he is particularly a bad drummer but his style just doesn't fit GnR ,Adler on the other hand wasn't loud, boomy and heavy like most metal drummers; instead, he was light, happy, danceable. He brought the swing, the rhythm, the glam and the fun into GNR's signature brand of rock music, which is somewhere between glam, metal, and punk.I'd really like to hear Slash and Duffs explanation as to why he or Izzy haven't played a role on the tour because both of them come across as straight shooters instead of hearing from some inside source or Eddie fkn Trunk.

[JAEBALL]

Most will agree that the band are playing pretty well on this tour and Axl sounds good,however a lot of criticism is directed towards Frank not that he is particularly a bad drummer but his style just doesn't fit GnR ,Adler on the other hand wasn't loud, boomy and heavy like most metal drummers; instead, he was light, happy, danceable. He brought the swing, the rhythm, the glam and the fun into GNR's signature brand of rock music, which is somewhere between glam, metal, and punk.I'd really like to hear Slash and Duffs explanation as to why he or Izzy haven't played a role on the tour because both of them come across as straight shooters instead of hearing from some inside source or Eddie fkn Trunk.

I think it's pretty easy to put 2 n 2 together on why Izzy and Steven aren't in the band full time.

This was never a reunion... Richard and Frank were in place and Axl was never going to jettison them for Izzy and Steven who he doesn't trust or particularity care for in the case of Steven...

Plus you are never going to hear Slash and Duff spell that out, nor are you ever going to hear them say we didn't want to share the money with Izzy and Steven... which I do not blame them for.

[Ali]

If he did sign a NDA, talking about everything he talked about could very well have been a violation of the terms of the NDA. I have to wonder, if you can't trust someone to abide by a legally binding agreement they signed, how much can you really trust and rely on them.

I doubt he violated it.  It probably expired after a certain period of time.  If he signed it January 2, 2016 (as he says), then it could've expired after a year, which would've covered all of the shows Steven ended up doing.  I noticed he didn't say a word in public until after a year had passed and all of his appearances seemed to have ended (for now anyway).

He's running his mouth about Axl every chance he gets. Yeah he says Frank is a nice guy... and that's the only reason he doesn't push him down a flight of stairs. He also says Frank plays the songs wrong. He says the reason why Dizzy, Richard and Melissa are a perfect fit for this band "is 'cause they're like fucking ghosts. 'Cause Axl doesn't wanna see nobody." He spills the beans about Fernando's plans for AFD's 30th when we have no idea whether those plans are actually going to come to fruition, so now there will be expectations and complaints if it doesn't work out.

None of this stuff is particularly complimentary.

No, it isn't complimentary when you're misquoting it and taking it all out of context, which you did on all those counts.

http://loudwire.com/steven-adler-heartbreaking-watch-frank-ferrer-play-guns-n-roses/?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=newsletter_4511503

See, we were right....

Gotta love "I Told You So" posts on issues that were foregone conclusions to begin with.  Did anyone need a web link, a crystal ball, or anything else to reach the syllogism that Steven would want to play more than a couple songs each night?  Gee, I wish I were psychic so I could've figured out that Steven would've wanted to play more than he did.   

He admitted he was heartbroken over it.  Predictable.  Understandable.  Big deal.  Hardly cause for controversy.

I think the only thing that came off badly was him talking about when he was fired ...

Like Steven we get it ... they were all using too...we all know the story.

The rest of it ... didn't come off that badly ...

He was pretty complimentary of Fernando, Frank and Richard...

He just wishes it was the five of them ... nothing wrong with him thinking that way. Just not gunna happen ...

Yep, I said earlier that his rant about 1990 should've been bottled.... for good.  But everything else he's said never came off as anything other than the Steven we know: someone who is very biased towards and passionate about his place and history in Guns N Roses.  His personality is certainly forward and edgy but in these cases, it's only offensive when you automatically search for fault in anything he says.

"Could've expired after a year".  Yes, "could" have.  As someone who has had to sign many NDAs in his time, a year is an unusually short expiration time.  That is especially true considering that the tour is on-going.

As you say, you're biased towards his place in GN'R history.  Maybe that's why you chalk up his "joking" about pushing Frank down a flight of stairs as "the Steven we know". Personally, I find remarks like that idiotic and unfunny.

He was gifted with those guest appearances. GN'R certainly did not need him to appear in order to boost ticket sales.  His interview comments reek of a lack of gratitude.

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

I think it's pretty easy to put 2 n 2 together on why Izzy and Steven aren't in the band full time.

This was never a reunion... Richard and Frank were in place and Axl was never going to jettison them for Izzy and Steven who he doesn't trust or particularity care for in the case of Steven...

Plus you are never going to hear Slash and Duff spell that out, nor are you ever going to hear them say we didn't want to share the money with Izzy and Steven... which I do not blame them for.

This all seems pretty logical to me.

Izzy is a total flake and Steven is an unreliable fuck-up.  This was Axl's most high profile tour in 20 plus years.  People don't like hearing that, and like to pretend that the world was just hanging on his every move with his interchangeable band or whoever the fuck.  Not reality.  They are selling hoodies on FB that we've all seen : Waiting for GNR Since 1993.  That's the mindset.

As you guys may recall, people were still making lateness jokes before Vegas last year.  Again, people got fired up because he had been "better lately".  Well, that was news to the world who hadn't paid attention to GNR in forever.

So let's make you Axl.  Everything needs to go off without a hitch, or your career is probably, quite literally, totally over.  That's not a formula that's going to mean 2 wild card variables like Izzy and Steven come back into the fold.

[GeorgeSteele]

I think it's pretty easy to put 2 n 2 together on why Izzy and Steven aren't in the band full time.

This was never a reunion... Richard and Frank were in place and Axl was never going to jettison them for Izzy and Steven who he doesn't trust or particularity care for in the case of Steven...

Plus you are never going to hear Slash and Duff spell that out, nor are you ever going to hear them say we didn't want to share the money with Izzy and Steven... which I do not blame them for.

This all seems pretty logical to me.

Izzy is a total flake and Steven is an unreliable fuck-up.  This was Axl's most high profile tour in 20 plus years.  People don't like hearing that, and like to pretend that the world was just hanging on his every move with his interchangeable band or whoever the fuck.  Not reality.  They are selling hoodies on FB that we've all seen : Waiting for GNR Since 1993.  That's the mindset.

As you guys may recall, people were still making lateness jokes before Vegas last year.  Again, people got fired up because he had been "better lately".  Well, that was news to the world who hadn't paid attention to GNR in forever.

So let's make you Axl.  Everything needs to go off without a hitch, or your career is probably, quite literally, totally over.  That's not a formula that's going to mean 2 wild card variables like Izzy and Steven come back into the fold.

Might be that.  Might also be that Axl just does not like Steven and would have been happy to have Izzy involved but for the money issue.

[Ali]

I think it's pretty easy to put 2 n 2 together on why Izzy and Steven aren't in the band full time.

This was never a reunion... Richard and Frank were in place and Axl was never going to jettison them for Izzy and Steven who he doesn't trust or particularity care for in the case of Steven...

Plus you are never going to hear Slash and Duff spell that out, nor are you ever going to hear them say we didn't want to share the money with Izzy and Steven... which I do not blame them for.

This all seems pretty logical to me.

Izzy is a total flake and Steven is an unreliable fuck-up.  This was Axl's most high profile tour in 20 plus years.  People don't like hearing that, and like to pretend that the world was just hanging on his every move with his interchangeable band or whoever the fuck.  Not reality.  They are selling hoodies on FB that we've all seen : Waiting for GNR Since 1993.  That's the mindset.

As you guys may recall, people were still making lateness jokes before Vegas last year.  Again, people got fired up because he had been "better lately".  Well, that was news to the world who hadn't paid attention to GNR in forever.

So let's make you Axl.  Everything needs to go off without a hitch, or your career is probably, quite literally, totally over.  That's not a formula that's going to mean 2 wild card variables like Izzy and Steven come back into the fold.

While I agree with this, and with the fact that Axl likely had more on the line than Slash or Duff, I think everyone had a lot to lose on this tour.  There was a lot of money to be made for everyone and this was the one shot at a reunion.

Thankfully for all involved and for the fans, this has gone very well.  Better than I ever thought it could go, honestly.

Ali

[Bridge]

"Could've expired after a year".  Yes, "could" have.  As someone who has had to sign many NDAs in his time, a year is an unusually short expiration time.  That is especially true considering that the tour is on-going.

But he's not involved in the current tour, and the band never knew how long they'd be extending it.

Either way, it's pure speculation how it was worded and if Steven violated it.

As you say, you're biased towards his place in GN'R history.  Maybe that's why you chalk up his "joking" about pushing Frank down a flight of stairs as "the Steven we know"

No, I said Steven was biased towards his place in GNR history....

But everything else he's said never came off as anything other than the Steven we know: someone who is very biased towards and passionate about his place and history in Guns N Roses.  His personality is certainly forward and edgy but in these cases, it's only offensive when you automatically search for fault in anything he says.

....which is why he tends to speak/joke that way.  Yeah, "I just felt like pushing him down the stairs so I can play!" isn't the best way to word a sentiment like that, but to me it isn't really that different from saying "God, I'm gonna kill him!" to a friend who just dribbled chocolate syrup all other your table.

And the "I'll kill you" expression is an in-stone piece of lexicon used by everyone.  Along with phrases like "I'll kick your ass", "punch you", "kick you".  "If you walk on my mopped floor, I'll knock you out!"     All things that people say every single day.  Steven Adler said "push you down the stairs".  The very crowd that has a problem with that is the crowd that very likely uses all those other phrases and thinks nothing of it.

During his recent comments, Steven freely acknowledged that Frank was a nice guy.  I highly doubt he desired literally to push Frank downstairs.  It was obviously a piece of rhetoric he used to elaborate of why he wishes he were playing drums more.

[allwaystired]

I think it's pretty easy to put 2 n 2 together on why Izzy and Steven aren't in the band full time.

This was never a reunion... Richard and Frank were in place and Axl was never going to jettison them for Izzy and Steven who he doesn't trust or particularity care for in the case of Steven...

Plus you are never going to hear Slash and Duff spell that out, nor are you ever going to hear them say we didn't want to share the money with Izzy and Steven... which I do not blame them for.

This all seems pretty logical to me.

Izzy is a total flake and Steven is an unreliable fuck-up.  This was Axl's most high profile tour in 20 plus years.  People don't like hearing that, and like to pretend that the world was just hanging on his every move with his interchangeable band or whoever the fuck.  Not reality.  They are selling hoodies on FB that we've all seen : Waiting for GNR Since 1993.  That's the mindset.

As you guys may recall, people were still making lateness jokes before Vegas last year.  Again, people got fired up because he had been "better lately".  Well, that was news to the world who hadn't paid attention to GNR in forever.

So let's make you Axl.  Everything needs to go off without a hitch, or your career is probably, quite literally, totally over.  That's not a formula that's going to mean 2 wild card variables like Izzy and Steven come back into the fold.

That's absolutely spot on. Sums it up as far as I can see it. There is no way they were going to risk Izzy clearing off half way through the tour (or even the rehearsals), or Steven not being able to deliver. This tour is just too important to risk that.

And really- can we actually imagine Izzy and Steven carrying a stadium show? Watching the Izzy guest appearance at the London O2 he looks terrified and even struggling at times. Steven's drumming, while it fits for some of the early material, just isn't up to the standard needed. Hell, I don't want to say those things, but they're true- they just aren't at the ability needed. Imagine how much we'd be kicking off if shows were getting pulled because Izzy hadn't shown up, or Steven was messing up stuff mid set? And we'd paid a LOT of money to see it?

As for Steven's attitude to it all, it just seems business as usual for him. We've had this for years now. It must be a kick in the teeth for him this, sure, but he can't honestly be too surprised by it.