Eddie Trunk On Reunion Rumors. Hear Him Out.

[Princess Leia]

He can sell as many albums as U2...they give theirs away for free. 

And who is to blame technology or the guy who came up with the idea? Still it didn?t work for GN?R. Maybe it works for other artists. Maybe it doesn?t. In the case of GN?R. I think there was a lot more that went on besides MySpace and the leaks. It is posible that people listened to it. They didn?t like so they didn?t buy the album

Adele decided to follow other path. It worked for her it doesn?t mean it will work the same way or better for every single artists out there.

I don?t think there is magic formula to sell albums, except the most obvious one. People buy what they like

Axl could performed one new song live. Or he could try to sell a song on iTunes or on their official website

[pilferk]

Let me put it this way:

Using your narrow definition, Chinese Democracy, the album, did not exist until it hit store shelves in 2008.

Despite the fact there were comments from within, and from outside, the band who had heard the material. Despite the fact Axl had said that the material was recorded. Despite the fact we'd all pretty much heard some of the material performed live. Despite the fact that very rough mixes of many (most?) of the tracks had leaked before the album release.

Despite all evidence pointing to the fact that there was, in fact, a relatively completed album....by your definition, it didn't exist because it wasn't released.

That's fine, if that's your litmus.  But I think you're going to run into issues when discussing that topic, going forward (or backwards), with folks.  Because generally, the definition of an album is a little more broad.  "Smile" by Brian Wilson.  "Extrodinary Machine" by Fiona Apple.  Those were examples of albums that are considered to have existed long before they actually saw the light of day.....

I think the definition of "done" is going to be different for a lot of people. To me, it's when the recording's done. But I seem to recall from Slash's autobiography that Axl said, about the Illusion records, "the motherfucker is done". And at the time, what he meant was the albums we're ready to hit the shelves.

Yes, but we aren't talking about done.

We are talking about existence.  Whether the album and material exist.

[EmilyGNR]

He can sell as many albums as U2...they give theirs away for free. 

And who is to blame technology or the guy who came up with the idea? Still it didn?t work for GN?R. Maybe it works for other artists. Maybe it doesn?t. In the case of GN?R. I think there was a lot more that went on besides MySpace and the leaks. It is posible that people listened to it. They didn?t like so they didn?t buy the album

Adele decided to follow other path. It worked for her it doesn?t mean it will work the same way or better for every single artists out there.

I don?t think there is magic formula to sell albums, except the most obvious one. People buy what they like

Axl could performed one new song live. Or he could try to sell a song on iTunes or on their official website

Honestly don't follow "Adele" or buy anything off ITunes ever so your little suggestions won't cut it for me.

It has already been explained to you how the industry and technology have changed to the point where performing new songs live may not be the best option or in the best interest of bands.

[EmilyGNR]

He can sell as many albums as U2...they give theirs away for free. 

And some people still complained 

[Wooody]

He can sell as many albums as U2...they give theirs away for free. 

And who is to blame technology or the guy who came up with the idea? Still it didn?t work for GN?R. Maybe it works for other artists. Maybe it doesn?t. In the case of GN?R. I think there was a lot more that went on besides MySpace and the leaks. It is posible that people listened to it. They didn?t like so they didn?t buy the album

Adele decided to follow other path. It worked for her it doesn?t mean it will work the same way or better for every single artists out there.

I don?t think there is magic formula to sell albums, except the most obvious one. People buy what they like

Axl could performed one new song live. Or he could try to sell a song on iTunes or on their official website

This is a very valid point though. ANd I think ultimately this hurt the album more than strategies or leaks. The amount of people who liked the demo leaks or the live songs more than the album versions may have been far less people than the people who listened to 1) the live versions of new songs 2) demo leaks 3) the finished album, either on myspace or in their music store with headphones, and after all of that, they still didnt think the album was worth buying.

Just like I have issues with the vocals on madagascar that ended up on the album, people may have had issues with the whole album, or at least the songs they checked out, before deciding to stop.

[raindog]

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

[EmilyGNR]

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

Nah, that is simply your speculative, unqualified opinion

[Wooody]

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

I agree, of course.

[EmilyGNR]

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

I agree, of course.

Birds of a feather flock together.

[Wooody]

I don't wear a uniform. I walk outside naked. 

[raindog]

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

Nah, that is simply your speculative, unqualified opinion

Based only on 50+ years of precedent in the music industry. But no, I'm sure you're right and I'm wrong and promoting an album with TV appearances and press interviews makes it sell less. That's just good logic. 

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

I agree, of course.

Birds of a feather flock together.

Now you're just being embarrassing.

[EmilyGNR]

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

Nah, that is simply your speculative, unqualified opinion

Based only on 50+ years of precedent in the music industry. But no, I'm sure you're right and I'm wrong and promoting an album with TV appearances and press interviews makes it sell less. That's just good logic. 

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

I agree, of course.

Birds of a feather flock together.

Now you're just being embarrassing.

Nah, that's you that is embarrassing trying to play armchair quarterback e-expert.

"Based on 50 years precedent in the music industry" LOL at you.   

[raindog]

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

Nah, that is simply your speculative, unqualified opinion

Based only on 50+ years of precedent in the music industry. But no, I'm sure you're right and I'm wrong and promoting an album with TV appearances and press interviews makes it sell less. That's just good logic. 

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

I agree, of course.

Birds of a feather flock together.

Now you're just being embarrassing.

Nah, that's you that is embarrassing trying to play armchair quarterback e-expert.

"Based on 50 years precedent in the music industry" LOL at you.   

I've been working for Rough Trade Records and more recently Sunday Best for 15 years, so you're spot on as ever.

You don't think there's been 50 years of precedent in the music industry for TV appearances helping to sell records. OK. I guess in your world Elvis and The Beatles on Ed Sullivan or Michael Jackson debuting the moonwalk on Motown's 20th were insignificant events and their respective careers and sales would have been much the same if they'd stayed at home petting their dogs.

Can you do me a favour and not reply to my posts or put me on ignore or something.

[EmilyGNR]

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

Nah, that is simply your speculative, unqualified opinion

Based only on 50+ years of precedent in the music industry. But no, I'm sure you're right and I'm wrong and promoting an album with TV appearances and press interviews makes it sell less. That's just good logic. 

Any damage done to the album's sales would have been undone with one timely TV appearance or a Rolling Stone interview. I think when you put leaks and MySpace next to the lack of real promotion, they pale into insignificance

I agree, of course.

Birds of a feather flock together.

Now you're just being embarrassing.

Nah, that's you that is embarrassing trying to play armchair quarterback e-expert.

"Based on 50 years precedent in the music industry" LOL at you.   

I've been working for Rough Trade Records and more recently Sunday Best for 15 years, so you're spot on as ever.

You don't think there's been 50 years of precedent in the music industry for TV appearances helping to sell records. OK. I guess in your world Elvis and The Beatles on Ed Sullivan or Michael Jackson debuting the moonwalk on Motown's 20th were insignificant events and their respective careers and sales would have been much the same if they'd stayed at home petting their dogs.

Can you do me a favour and not reply to my posts or put me on ignore or something.

Sure you are --- anyone can claim anything on the internet so I'll take you supposed claims with a dose of salt and skepticism and weigh it all against your posting history.

Even if it were true, it doesn't qualify you as an expert on all media imo or all situations- nor does it qualify you to make the statement that X or Y would have definitely worked in this situation-- that is speculation, and hindsight is always 20/20


You can bring up as many past events as you want to, and namedrop like a madman but it doesn't change the fact that this is your opinion and you are speculating on ways a past even could have been improved- without knowing specific details.


I don't see anyone arguing against the fact that television has increased visibility of numerous musical groups over the years and has definitely been a factor in selling more Albums, Nobody here is saying those events were insignificant.

Who stayed home to "pet their dog" exactly? Care to elaborate?

No I won't put you on block, you respond publicly on a discussion board and you are fair game to respond to. 

[pilferk]

So, to be clear...because other things may have had an effect, too....you ignore everything else you have control over, too?

The fact here is: Nobody here is in a position to quantify how much each individual thing may have factored in to cds release, whatever you think (success or failure) . But we can categorically say, to some extent, the influence tech has had on the industry as a whole. Its stated in industry publications, studies, market research, annual reporting, etc. It is HUGE. You can't over state it, or overestimate it, or over emphasize it.  The min someone suggests you can...the discussion, for me, ends. Because there is just no where to go from there.

So it sounds pretty dumb to me to only, potentially, adress one factor, no matter what you think had the most effect, and not the others.

They likely all had some effect effect. They should all be addressed. You don't ignore the tech side, even if you think the pr, or press, or distribution, or....whatever...was lacking. Thats nuts.

And, regardless of the specfics to cds release....it doesnt explain why most other big acts have adopted the same  stance in regards to playing new, unreleased, material at live shows.

You can wiggle, and waggle, and try to shift focus to whatever your preferred narrative is, here, for cd specifically. But its all a smokescreen, really. Because you literally can not deny...unless you are burying your head in the sand...that tech has been the single biggest influence on the music industry, and the way it operates and does business, over the past decade or so. Period.

You can argue other factors with cd, 7 years ago. Great. Lovely. But, thats not what we are discussing. We are talking about cd2.

So, then..what about Metallica? Fall out boy? Afi? Green day? Other acts, too? Why dont they play new, unreleased, material at their live shows?

I understand that its an inconvenient truth for the folks that WANT new material played at guns shows. And they'd rather sidetrack to discuss "what else was wrong" with cd.  Go for it.  But if you do it to try to minimze the influence tech has had, and is having, you are, plain and simple, wrong. This isn't opinion. It is accepted fact in the industry. And you can see it demonstrated all over the place.

[Mysteron]

The case between Frontline and GN'R in 2010 looks into Chinese Democracy and what affected it's sales.

The public document is here http://www.khpslaw.com/pdf-Cross-Complaint-filed-5_17_2010.PDF

[rebelhipi]

The case between Frontline and GN'R in 2010 looks into Chinese Democracy and what affected it's sales.

The public document is here http://www.khpslaw.com/pdf-Cross-Complaint-filed-5_17_2010.PDF

I didnt know all this stuff.

Explains a lot of things.
What happened to the case, did Axl win it?

[Wooody]

The case between Frontline and GN'R in 2010 looks into Chinese Democracy and what affected it's sales.

The public document is here http://www.khpslaw.com/pdf-Cross-Complaint-filed-5_17_2010.PDF

I didnt know all this stuff.

Explains a lot of things.
What happened to the case, did Axl win it?

This definitely hurts more than a live performance 

[D-GenerationX]

The case between Frontline and GN'R in 2010 looks into Chinese Democracy and what affected it's sales.

The public document is here http://www.khpslaw.com/pdf-Cross-Complaint-filed-5_17_2010.PDF

Yeah, I had read through this all before.

Axl has a lot of very legitimate beefs with Azoff.  That Van Halen thing alone is a disgrace.

I think its obvious to anyone that Azoff's actions and motivations were sketchy at best, outright deceptive lies at worst.

But do we even have this album without Irving Azoff?  Like it or not, pretty much as soon as he came onboard, he got things moving on a release.  And within 7 months, the album was on shelves.  An album that had been in limbo seemingly forever.

[Mysteron]

The case between Frontline and GN'R in 2010 looks into Chinese Democracy and what affected it's sales.

The public document is here http://www.khpslaw.com/pdf-Cross-Complaint-filed-5_17_2010.PDF

Yeah, I had read through this all before.

Axl has a lot of very legitimate beefs with Azoff.  That Van Halen thing alone is a disgrace.

I think its obvious to anyone that Azoff's actions and motivations were sketchy at best, outright deceptive lies at worst.

But do we even have this album without Irving Azoff?  Like it or not, pretty much as soon as he came onboard, he got things moving on a release.  And within 7 months, the album was on shelves.  An album that had been in limbo seemingly forever.

You get the album, but that was all. The release did not reflect the expectations of Axl in any way at all.

Imagine being Axl and reading on the internet the frustrations of the fans because of the lack of promotion. Everything that happens with GN'R reflects on him and him alone.

Also, in terms of releasing another album, how is Axl going to feel about that. Imagine the distrust he must have of the record company and alot of other people. You spend years of your life creating something only for the above to happen. It must feel awful.