Eddie Trunk On Reunion Rumors. Hear Him Out.

[EmilyGNR]

If I say I've painted a masterpiece, even if I can produce a handful of people that will swear to it on a stack of bible books, what value does it have to anyone if it never sees the light of day?

Aren't we both making semantic arguments here?

It has value to the artist...and maybe to those that have seen/heard it.

I refer squarely to "The Santa Clause":

Ever seen a million dollars, in person?  No.  I know people who have.  Does that fact YOU'VE never seen it mean it's a myth? Or that it doesn't exist? Or that it has no value?

And yes, I know it's not the same thing.  But in terms of "real vs myth", it's still a decent analogy.

There are enough people, in the industry, who have heard pieces of unreleased material, and commented on it's quality that I'm pretty sure CD2 isn't Santa, or the Easter Bunny.

Semantics? No.  Not here.  I think we're actually arguing reality vs perception, and whether something can be real just because the observer in question can't see it or perceive it.  It's not even "faith" on this.

I agree with you that people from the industry have heard pieces of unreleased material. The thing is pieces are far from being a full album.

So if what Axl has in The Vault are pieces instead an album ready to be released, then there is no such a thing as CDII.

axl said the second half of chinese is recorded.

Folks have attested to that, and have verified hearing the material.

The only person who, at this point, i've seen assume that its only pieces, rather than a full slate of material at some stage in the production process, is you.

I'll stick with axl, and the folks who claim to have heard the material, here. 

No, it wasn?t me talking about pieces. You brought it up. 

Look I?m 100% sure that over the years they have tapes with recorded material. Many band members have said they have share files of material that obviously has been recorded. Can we call that an album?

 With the old band we all have heard bootlegs with with demos, accustic versions, piano version, rehearsals etc. All that stuff is not the final product we ended up having. All that stuff is not an album all by itself.

If the new band recorded some accustic version of Soul Monster or a piano version of The General. That is not an album

From the Revolver interview-

?We recorded a lot of things before Chinese was out,? ?We?ve worked more on some of those things and we?ve written a few new things. But basically, we have what I call kind of the second half of Chinese. That?s already recorded. And then we have a remix album made of the songs from Chinese. That?s been done for a while, too.

[ice cream sand pig]

pilferk is right

I have printed this, framed it, and hung it over my PC.

I also just had to break out the portable defib.

Elizabeth? Elizabeth? This is the big one!! I'm coming, Elizabeth?

 

THANK GOD someone got the reference.  I was legit worried nobody would and would be like WTF?!

not only did i get the reference, but it always reminds me of my great grandpa i used to live with. he always said he was dying. "i wont make it till tomorrow. im dying esther, im dying!". it went on for years. got to the point that you almost couldnt help but smirk when he said it.

then one night, when i was just about to go under for an operation to get a tumor removed from my stomach, he called me and told me he was dying. "yeah grandpa, i know. youre dying. i really need to go... love you, gtg." that night, he actually died! it was the first in a series of events that led to my 4 months or so of homelessness. i had a job and was a full time student, but no way could i afford to pay rent in ca! i used to watch that show with him all the time. he also used to always say he was gonna win the publishers clearing house thingy, but that never happened.

[pilferk]

No, it wasn?t me talking about pieces. You brought it up. 

Where did I say there were pieces?

That concept wholly came from you. And seemingly no where else.

Look I?m 100% sure that over the years they have tapes with recorded material. Many band members have said they have share files of material that obviously has been recorded. Can we call that an album?

 With the old band we all have heard bootlegs with with demos, accustic versions, piano version, rehearsals etc. All that stuff is not the final product we ended up having. All that stuff is not an album all by itself.

If the new band recorded some accustic version of Soul Monster or a piano version of The General. That is not an album

That is not what Axl said.  Nor is it what the people who've heard the material have said. And, indeed, the only person I can see supposing that it is all that exists is...well...you.

Axl said CD 2 was "already recorded". That means it's not demos...it's all the tracks necessary to assemble final versions of the song. That's not to say certain tracks won't get re-recorded, and swapped in, as that happened with CD, too. So the final versions of the tracks might not be assembled, from a production standpoint, but...yeah...I'd call that an album.  Released or not.  Not polished, mixed, and mastered...but an album.

[pilferk]

From the Revolver interview-

?We recorded a lot of things before Chinese was out,? ?We?ve worked more on some of those things and we?ve written a few new things. But basically, we have what I call kind of the second half of Chinese. That?s already recorded. And then we have a remix album made of the songs from Chinese. That?s been done for a while, too.

Exactly.  I'm not sure how you come away, after reading that, and after hearing numerous people talk about having heard the material, both in and out of the band, that it's "demos and pieces".

Nor do I get why, if you do, you expect others to take your word for it being in that condition.  In direct contradiction to people who would actually know and their comments. Weird.

[jarmo]

Yeah, I don't see how you make that assumption either...



/jarmo

[Princess Leia]

If I say I've painted a masterpiece, even if I can produce a handful of people that will swear to it on a stack of bible books, what value does it have to anyone if it never sees the light of day?

Aren't we both making semantic arguments here?

It has value to the artist...and maybe to those that have seen/heard it.

I refer squarely to "The Santa Clause":

Ever seen a million dollars, in person?  No.  I know people who have.  Does that fact YOU'VE never seen it mean it's a myth? Or that it doesn't exist? Or that it has no value?

And yes, I know it's not the same thing.  But in terms of "real vs myth", it's still a decent analogy.

There are enough people, in the industry, who have heard pieces of unreleased material, and commented on it's quality that I'm pretty sure CD2 isn't Santa, or the Easter Bunny.

Semantics? No.  Not here.  I think we're actually arguing reality vs perception, and whether something can be real just because the observer in question can't see it or perceive it.  It's not even "faith" on this.

There... Your own post

As for the definition of album, I guess we have agree to disagree. For me not final versions, not polished, not mixed. It is no album. But if you it is, fine

[pilferk]

If I say I've painted a masterpiece, even if I can produce a handful of people that will swear to it on a stack of bible books, what value does it have to anyone if it never sees the light of day?

Aren't we both making semantic arguments here?

It has value to the artist...and maybe to those that have seen/heard it.

I refer squarely to "The Santa Clause":

Ever seen a million dollars, in person?  No.  I know people who have.  Does that fact YOU'VE never seen it mean it's a myth? Or that it doesn't exist? Or that it has no value?

And yes, I know it's not the same thing.  But in terms of "real vs myth", it's still a decent analogy.

There are enough people, in the industry, who have heard pieces of unreleased material, and commented on it's quality that I'm pretty sure CD2 isn't Santa, or the Easter Bunny.

Semantics? No.  Not here.  I think we're actually arguing reality vs perception, and whether something can be real just because the observer in question can't see it or perceive it.  It's not even "faith" on this.

There... Your own post

As for the definition of album, I guess we have agree to disagree. For me not final versions, not polished, not mixed. It is no album. But if you it is, fine

OK, I get it.  You just completely misunderstood what I meant.

Pieces meaning many of the folks commenting outside the band have not heard, from start to finish, every track from the album. They've heard pieces of the unreleased album, as a whole, in the form of single (or a few) specific tracks...but tracks that are relatively finished. But Axl has, and I'm sure the band has, heard all of it. They have also commented. So, in sum total, the depiction is an entire construct.

Not meaning they've heard snippets, demos, and "pieces" of songs. Big difference

And if your definition of an album is "only finished and released material"...then nobody can ever announce anything, ever...or be working on creating anything, ever...because it can't exist til it's completely done and on store shelves.  Your definition is much more narrow than the one that's commonly used.  Which is fine...but it's going to pretty much mean you're unable to discuss anything on this topic with most folks on that front.

[Princess Leia]

I?m not talking about released. I?m talking about a process. Something that it is in production or preproduction it is not much of an album to me. Now if you tell me about final versions of songs in the process of being polished or mixed. That?s another story.

[pilferk]

Let me put it this way:

Using your narrow definition, Chinese Democracy, the album, did not exist until it hit store shelves in 2008.

Despite the fact there were comments from within, and from outside, the band who had heard the material. Despite the fact Axl had said that the material was recorded. Despite the fact we'd all pretty much heard some of the material performed live. Despite the fact that very rough mixes of many (most?) of the tracks had leaked before the album release.

Despite all evidence pointing to the fact that there was, in fact, a relatively completed album....by your definition, it didn't exist because it wasn't released.

That's fine, if that's your litmus.  But I think you're going to run into issues when discussing that topic, going forward (or backwards), with folks.  Because generally, the definition of an album is a little more broad.  "Smile" by Brian Wilson.  "Extrodinary Machine" by Fiona Apple.  Those were examples of albums that are considered to have existed long before they actually saw the light of day.....

[pilferk]

I?m not talking about released. I?m talking about a process. Something that it is in production or preproduction it is not much of an album to me. Now if you tell me about final versions of songs in the process of being polished or mixed. That?s another story.

Thats a VERY narrow definition that I don't think you'll find many people are going to share with you.

So then what's your litmus test for finished?

Packed with artwork, booklet, and linear notes?

Mixed and mastered?

Fully recorded, and READY to be mixed and mastered? (This seems to be the stage the material is at, since Axl says the recording is done)

Completely written and ready to be recorded?

Something else?

Again, I refer back to CD.  From comments, it seems like the material is right about the place it was when we started to get the CD leaks. Fully recorded, but likely not final mixed and mastered.  And there's always a chance that certain tracks get re-recorded/redubbed during the mixing process, to get a specific sound.  That's true of every album recorded since mixing was a thing.

And yet...you don't think that's an album.  Sorry, I just don't think you're going to find many folks who jump off at that same point.

[pilferk]

I?m not talking about released. I?m talking about a process. Something that it is in production or preproduction it is not much of an album to me. Now if you tell me about final versions of songs in the process of being polished or mixed. That?s another story.

To add...commonly in the music industry:

Pre-production = writing and song creation
Production = recording process
post-production = mixing and mastering process (and marketing, pack in creation, etc)

[sky dog]

I am quite certain there is an album of material, maybe 2 albums of material well in to post production....again, whether it sees the light of day is a whole other issue.

[D-GenerationX]

I?m not talking about released. I?m talking about a process. Something that it is in production or preproduction it is not much of an album to me. Now if you tell me about final versions of songs in the process of being polished or mixed. That?s another story.

Frankly, the songs not being quite all the way done yet is a pro-Axl argument, as far as I'm concerned.

Why?  Because the alternative is that its all done, been done, and he's just been staring at the master tapes for 18 months, if not longer.

[sky dog]

I know you don't buy in to this, but maybe there is a few songs he wants Slash to play on......

[JAEBALL]

The songs are there...

Axl said they were recorded...

I mean jesus.. some of those songs are 20 years old! I sure hope they are "finished" by now....

I find it amazing that this is still a debate... he will release them when ... HE WANTS TO ... same with Chinese... up until 2006 or so when the record company held things up for a year or two.

I firmly believe him when he says there's another record and a remix... but lets face it Axl is on Axl time.. and we all know that's different than most!

[JAEBALL]

I know you don't buy in to this, but maybe there is a few songs he wants Slash to play on......

Would be pretty freaking cool...

[D-GenerationX]

I know you don't buy in to this, but maybe there is a few songs he wants Slash to play on......

I don't really buy it, no.

Having said that, if that turned out to be true, it puts a better spin on the situation.

No different than a reunion tour.  It's the same principle.

If a reunion tour is announced, right away "Axl's just been sitting on his ass doing nothing" is cast in a whole new light.

[sky dog]

22 songs according to Tommy...36 songs recorded during the chinese sessions.

[sky dog]

If a hybrid lineup is what they are doing, adding Slash to some of the more traditional tracks is a win-win for all.

[pilferk]

Frankly, the songs not being quite all the way done yet is a pro-Axl argument, as far as I'm concerned.

Why?  Because the alternative is that its all done, been done, and he's just been staring at the master tapes for 18 months, if not longer.

Yeah, I don't think it's final mixed and mastered. Maybe, but given the way CD played out, I don't think so.  I think it's all likely rough mixed material (aka: "CD leak quality").

IMHO, it probably needs some spit and polish, and then mastering, before release.