Can the GN'R fanbase EVER be satisfied?

[D-GenerationX]

Sounds like you are super interested in finding a middle ground or reasonable compromise, Jarmo.

[jarmo]

Without patting my own back too much, I think I've done more than enough of that already.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Without patting my own back too much, I think I've done more than enough of that already.

I have consistently and repeatedly said that the widely accepted description of you is both unfair and inaccurate. 

Have I not?  Have I not consistently said you let people speak their mind?  Have I not repeatedly said the myth about you being some tyrant is just that, a myth?

[jarmo]

I appreciate that.

But the thing is, this is how it is.
Maybe your outlook on certain things need to change first? Did you ever think about that? Did it ever cross your mind that you don't come across as somebody who's a supportive fan of the band and who you assume a lot of things that others might consider out of line?




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Maybe your outlook on certain things need to change first? Did you ever think about that? Did it ever cross your mind that you don't come across as somebody who's a supportive fan of the band and who you assume a lot of things that others might consider out of line?

Honestly, no.  I have never been told I am anything but a superfan of this band and Axl himself.

I didn't hear that "some fan you are" talk until I got here, and even here, its only from the same 3-5 people. 

So, given those raw numbers, I am of the thinking I simply do not conform to your personal definition of a supportive fan.  Not that I am some bad or fake fan in the eyes of the overwhelming majority of folks, and certainly not in my own.

But let's take a step further.  If I don't meet your criteria of a supportive fan, so be it.  I'm as unlikely to ever improve my standing in your yes as I am unlikely to ever think you are being reasonable when you pass that judgment.

So let's just table that part of the equation.  Neither one of us will ever give an inch.  Why keep rehashing it?

[jarmo]

Ok. I'll use different words. to me you just come across as somebody who's overly whiny.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Ok. I'll use different words. to me you just come across as somebody who's overly whiny.

Ok, fair enough.  But let me ask you this question.

This is a post from the live album conversation in the other thread.  Am I out of line here?

Think about it.

What are the most widely available concerts?  The ones with the best sound.

1987.06.28 - London (Marquee)
1988.02.02 - New York (Ritz)
1988.12.07 - Tokyo

1991.08.17 - Stockholm
1991.08.24 - Mannheim

1992.02.22 - Tokyo (DVD)
1992.04.06 - Oklahoma City
1992.04.09 - Chicago
1992.06.06 - Paris
1992.12.05 - Buenos Aries

1993.07.16 - Buenos Aries

And those are just a few we have on bootlegs.  They obviously have a ton more in their vaults, all with great sound.  Many to pick from.

Here's the point.  Do those versions of those songs not sound great, as is?  Sure they do.  They sound awesome.  And were a true representation of what the band sounded like in those eras.

So while I could understand evening out the crowd noise and some of the sound levels from different shows so it all flows like one concert...why fuck with the music and vocals of the tracks themselves?

Am I "whiny" for asking why you would fuck with existing tracks that I am clearly saying are excellent, as is?

Do I become a non-supportive fan when I ask other fellow fans if they also think this?

[Ginger King]

Maybe your outlook on certain things need to change first? Did you ever think about that? Did it ever cross your mind that you don't come across as somebody who's a supportive fan of the band and who you assume a lot of things that others might consider out of line?

Honestly, no.  I have never been told I am anything but a superfan of this band and Axl himself.

I didn't hear that "some fan you are" talk until I got here, and even here, its only from the same 3-5 people. 

So, given those raw numbers, I am of the thinking I simply do not conform to your personal definition of a supportive fan.  Not that I am some bad or fake fan in the eyes of the overwhelming majority of folks, and certainly not in my own.

But let's take a step further.  If I don't meet your criteria of a supportive fan, so be it.  I'm as unlikely to ever improve my standing in your yes as I am unlikely to ever think you are being reasonable when you pass that judgment.

So let's just table that part of the equation.  Neither one of us will ever give an inch.  Why keep rehashing it?

What's funny/ironic is that, outside of here, me and I'd assume you and others (Oscar, Sofine, etc.) are looked at as GnR superfans.  I'm the one bringing the AFD blu-ray to cards night, and dragging people to modern-day GnR (and Hookers and Blow) concerts.  But here, we don't measure up to being fans at all, or not being "supportive".  Christ, I may as well have a Vince Neil is God t-shirt on...

[D-GenerationX]

What's funny/ironic is that, outside of here, me and I'd assume you and others (Oscar, Sofine, etc.) are looked at as GnR superfans.  I'm the one bringing the AFD blu-ray to cards night, and dragging people to modern-day GnR (and Hookers and Blow) concerts.  But here, we don't measure up to being fans at all, or not being "supportive".  Christ, I may as well have a Vince Neil is God t-shirt on...

I posted a link to one of the possible reunion articles on Facebook, with my own caption of how great it would be.

It generated a handful of likes.

Comments, on the other hand, were split.  Between "keep me in the loop if this happens" and "you are the only one I know that would even care".

Both examples of me being considered the kind of guy that cares enough to still follow this and be excited about it.

[jarmo]

Am I "whiny" for asking why you would fuck with existing tracks that I am clearly saying are excellent, as is?

Do I become a non-supportive fan when I ask other fellow fans if they also think this?

I'll answer this and pretend I don't get your sarcasm.
Well, what are you discussing? You're complaining about the live album. See, that's the theme!

The focus must, most of the time, be on something that you don't like, isn't right according to your preferences or whatever.
What a shame!

Edited to add: Your "go-to" feeling regarding GN'R seems to be negative. When was the last time you enjoyed something GN'R did without any "but"s? That's just how some people are.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I'll answer this and pretend I don't get your sarcasm.
Well, what are you discussing? You're complaining about the live album. See, that's the theme!

The focus must, most of the time, be on something that you don't like, isn't right according to your preferences or whatever.
What a shame!

I'm asking if others see the wisdom of altering existing tracks that are already excellent, as is.  (BTW, that's being negative, labeling their work "excellent"?)

Because from where I sit...who the fuck else even cares about such a thing?  Who, other than fellow GNR fans, is going to have any sort of opinion on a GNR live album released 16 years ago now?

As you see it, do I become a troublemaker for even asking the question in an open forum?  Just keep that shit to myself?  Is asking fellow fans if they share that opinion some sort of subversive action, in your opinion?

[Wooody]

I'll answer this and pretend I don't get your sarcasm.
Well, what are you discussing? You're complaining about the live album. See, that's the theme!

The focus must, most of the time, be on something that you don't like, isn't right according to your preferences or whatever.
What a shame!

I'm asking if others see the wisdom of altering existing tracks that are already excellent, as is.  (BTW, that's being negative, labeling their work "excellent"?)

Because from where I sit...who the fuck else even cares about such a thing?  Who, other than fellow GNR fans, is going to have any sort of opinion on a GNR live album released 16 years ago now?

As you see it, do I become a troublemaker for even asking the question in an open forum?  Just keep that shit to myself?  Is asking fellow fans if they share that opinion some sort of subversive action, in your opinion?

I agree with D-Generation on this one, We come here to discuss things. Discussing means sometimes making an observation about something that should've been left out, or in other scenarios, added.

Its not really complaining, its discussing. WHere else can we discuss these things in the real world? THe fans are here.
I actually didnt know there where things added to that live album, because quite frankly I listened to that album once and went back to my bootlegs that where actually way cooler. Am I whining when I say I prefer the bootlegs? Just as I took something from D-Generation's post regarting stuff that was added in the live album, someone may feel inclined to start searching for bootlegs. So it is actually enriching. Somehow I just see him making an observation, not coming off as whiny.

[Wooody]

And I would rather see people making these sort of observations rather than straight up violent posts from other members insulting everyone.

[D-GenerationX]

Thanks, Wooody.  I appreciate that.

[jarmo]

Yes, you disagree.

You failed to see the big picture.
You think this case isn't complaining, but it was part of a bigger picture some just refuse to even try to see.

Which, is the problem!


When every idea of discussion can be condensed into "what I think is/was wrong", it's surprising that you come off as whiny?
Keep denying it. Actions speak louder than words though.

Edit: To those that don't follow. I was pointing out that a person seems negative in my opinion. This isn't so much about one particular post, even though the poster is trying to make it about that to shift focus. The person is not happy about me replying to his posts, so my point all along has been that maybe if the posts weren't so slanted towards negativity most of the time, they'd get a different reaction from me. Instead of any kind of response to this, it's just met with denial.



/jarmo

[EmilyGNR]

And I would rather see people making these sort of observations rather than straight up violent posts from other members insulting everyone.

I would rather read from other fans that truly appreciate GNR as I do and  don't find something to complain,moan and whine about in nearly every post, so I guess we both don't get what we want.

You know what Mick says about wants.

LOL @Violent.

[EmilyGNR]

I'll answer this and pretend I don't get your sarcasm.
Well, what are you discussing? You're complaining about the live album. See, that's the theme!

The focus must, most of the time, be on something that you don't like, isn't right according to your preferences or whatever.
What a shame!

I'm asking if others see the wisdom of altering existing tracks that are already excellent, as is.  (BTW, that's being negative, labeling their work "excellent"?)

Because from where I sit...who the fuck else even cares about such a thing?  Who, other than fellow GNR fans, is going to have any sort of opinion on a GNR live album released 16 years ago now?

As you see it, do I become a troublemaker for even asking the question in an open forum?  Just keep that shit to myself?  Is asking fellow fans if they share that opinion some sort of subversive action, in your opinion?

It's not just this single issue, anyone can check your posting history and clearly see what your agenda is here.

You continually come in here and complain, criticize and try to paint all things GNR in the darkest most dire colors, and you post opinion as fact and fantasy as truth.

It gets tiring, I agree with Jarmo.

[Wooody]

Yes, you disagree.

You failed to see the big picture.
You think this case isn't complaining, but it was part of a bigger picture some just refuse to even try to see.

Which, is the problem!


When every idea of discussion can be condensed into "what I think is/was wrong", it's surprising that you come off as whiny?
Keep denying it. Actions speak louder than words though.

Edit: To those that don't follow. I was pointing out that a person seems negative in my opinion. This isn't so much about one particular post, even though the poster is trying to make it about that to shift focus. The person is not happy about me replying to his posts, so my point all along has been that maybe if the posts weren't so slanted towards negativity most of the time, they'd get a different reaction from me. Instead of any kind of response to this, it's just met with denial.



/jarmo

Granted I havent read ALL of his posts. However from what ive read, aside from this one comment about the Stuff added to the LIve Albums, I don't think he's a hater. He just likes to point out flaws. That's observing, not complaining, he was probably just born under Virgo. 




Emily on the other hand gets violent, and  like D Generation said, she pretends not to be upset by claiming not to care about what ''some dude on the internet says'', but she does exactly that.
There's a saying: The first to get upset loses. ANd thats what she does all the time.
I've seen her harass and insult not just me but a lot of people on this board, this is far more unacceptable than someone pointing out that Axl takes too long to release music.
She may not do it directly, she will always say something like:

''Its laughable how nerds''

''For me the definition of an idiot is''

She may think she is not directly insulting people but she is. SHe may fool herself into thinking she doesnt get upset, but when you resort to insults you're already upset.

You get upset: you lose.

You already lost. 

[EmilyGNR]

Yes, you disagree.

You failed to see the big picture.
You think this case isn't complaining, but it was part of a bigger picture some just refuse to even try to see.

Which, is the problem!


When every idea of discussion can be condensed into "what I think is/was wrong", it's surprising that you come off as whiny?
Keep denying it. Actions speak louder than words though.

Edit: To those that don't follow. I was pointing out that a person seems negative in my opinion. This isn't so much about one particular post, even though the poster is trying to make it about that to shift focus. The person is not happy about me replying to his posts, so my point all along has been that maybe if the posts weren't so slanted towards negativity most of the time, they'd get a different reaction from me. Instead of any kind of response to this, it's just met with denial.



/jarmo

Granted I havent read ALL of his posts. However from what ive read, aside from this one comment about the Stuff added to the LIve Albums, I don't think he's a hater. He just likes to point out flaws. That's observing, not complaining, he was probably just born under Virgo. 


Want to see a real hater:

Emily on the other hand gets violent, and  like D Generation said, she pretends not to be upset by claiming not to care about what ''some dude on the internet says'', but she does exactly that.
There's a saying: The first to get upset loses. ANd thats what she does all the time.
I've seen her harass and insult not just me but a lot of people on this board, this is far more unacceptable than someone pointing out that Axl takes too long to release music.
She may not do it directly, she will always say something like:

''Its laughable how nerds''

''For me the definition of an idiot is''

She may think she is not directly insulting people but she is. SHe may fool herself into thinking she doesnt get upset, but when you resort to insults you're already upset.

You get upset: you lose.

You already lost. 

Why would you post that here? Not cool at all. Troll move.

You aren't very good at sussing out people's emotions via the internet, keep your day job- I'm Zen.

Nobody gets "violent" here, that is laughable that you think so

Only one lost in the game is you 

[jarmo]

Granted I havent read ALL of his posts. However from what ive read, aside from this one comment about the Stuff added to the LIve Albums, I don't think he's a hater. He just likes to point out flaws. That's observing, not complaining, he was probably just born under Virgo. 

He was asking me to be treated differently. I told him why it doesn't work like that and offered a reason why this happens. Instead of acknowledging or responding, he started going on about one post. Nice shift of focus.




/jarmo