Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[tim_m]

Trump loses almost every matchup with top 2020 Democrats in Florida, Wisconsin and Michigan, polls find

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-loses-almost-every-matchup-230556635.html

As someone who can't stand Trump, that sounds promising but he was behind in every poll leading up to November 2016 as well. I think it actually helped him as anti-Dems and anti-Hillarys voted for him thinking he stood no chance of winning anyhow.

Which I don't expect to happen a second time.

[PermissionToLand]

Trump loses almost every matchup with top 2020 Democrats in Florida, Wisconsin and Michigan, polls find

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-loses-almost-every-matchup-230556635.html

As someone who can't stand Trump, that sounds promising but he was behind in every poll leading up to November 2016 as well. I think it actually helped him as anti-Dems and anti-Hillarys voted for him thinking he stood no chance of winning anyhow.

Not in the swing states. This misconception that "the polls were wrong" needs to be put to bed:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_elections_electoral_college_map.html

[Dr. Blutarsky]

You do realize polls dont mean much right now.  Considering the Democratic candidates running right now haven't really had any breakout moments & If the economy is doing as well as it is now come November and there isn't any big blunders on his part, I dont see how Trump loses.  

[PermissionToLand]

You do realize polls dont mean much right now.  Considering the Democratic candidates running right now haven't really had any breakout moments & If the economy is doing as well as it is now come November and there isn't any big blunders on his part, I dont see how Trump loses.  

Whatever you have to tell yourself... you don't need "breakout moments" when you have support. More support than the guy you'll be running against. If you think a decent stock market will save his ass while the vast majority of Americans are not seeing the effects of that stock market (on top of the fact that he has literally nothing else to speciously claim as an accomplishment), you got another thing coming.

• He lied to the voters about bringing back jobs from overseas.
• He lied to the voters about offering a healthcare overhaul.
• He lied to the voters about fixing infrastructure.
• He lied about eliminating the debt.
• He lied about enacting term limits
• He lied about letting individuals deduct healthcare premiums
• He lied about child care tax credits
• He lied about eliminating the carried interest loophole
• He lied about balancing the budget

[tim_m]

You do realize polls dont mean much right now.  Considering the Democratic candidates running right now haven't really had any breakout moments & If the economy is doing as well as it is now come November and there isn't any big blunders on his part, I dont see how Trump loses.  

Whatever you have to tell yourself... you don't need "breakout moments" when you have support. More support than the guy you'll be running against. If you think a decent stock market will save his ass while the vast majority of Americans are not seeing the effects of that stock market (on top of the fact that he has literally nothing else to speciously claim as an accomplishment), you got another thing coming.

• He lied to the voters about bringing back jobs from overseas.
• He lied to the voters about offering a healthcare overhaul.
• He lied to the voters about fixing infrastructure.
• He lied about eliminating the debt.
• He lied about enacting term limits
• He lied about letting individuals deduct healthcare premiums
• He lied about child care tax credits
• He lied about eliminating the carried interest loophole
• He lied about balancing the budget

And so much more! We could write a thousand page novel consisting of all the lies and bullshit he's said in the last 4 years. History also shows a impeached president whether convicted or not is something voters run away from like a burning building. Every time a president has been impeached or is about to they or their party lose power in the subsequent election, first with Johnson in the 1860s. He was impeached but acquitted, ran for re-election 2 years later. He lost to Grant. Fast forward 100 some years Nixon resigns before the house can vote on articles, his successor Ford loses to Carter 2 years later. 22 years later Clinton is  impeached and acquitted. 2 years later his party loses the White House when Gore lost to W. in an election he should've won in a landslide. I mean it was George W. Bush for fucks sake! The biggest buffoon to hold the White House until this dolt Trump.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

It is not just the stock market ( my IRA is very happy BTW) A few examples among many:

U.S. housing starts at 13-year high, factory output gains - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy/u-s-housing-starts-at-13-year-high-factory-output-gains-idUSKBN1ZG1KP

US consumer confidence hits highest level since 2000 - https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/us-consumer-confidence-comfort-highest-since-2000-boosted-job-market-2020-1-1028824258

As Jobs Cap 10 Years of Gains, Women Are Workforce Majority - https://www.wsj.com/articles/december-jobs-report-11578657600

Newsletter: The U.S. Labor Market Is Breaking Records - https://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2020/01/10/newsletter-the-u-s-labor-market-is-breaking-records/

 

[tim_m]

Easy to make things look good when many of these hires are 2nd or even 3rd jobs for people

[Dr. Blutarsky]

There will always be people who need to work 2nd and 3rd jobs.  There is no denying the economy is better now than it was 4 years ago.

[tim_m]

If you say so. What's better? The skyrocketing debt and deicer? The farmers losing their shirts because of Trump's trade war?

[LunsJail]

It's also not all about voting against Trump.  A lot of left wingers wasted their vote on 3rd party candidates like Jill Stein which could have swung certain states in the Midwest had they voted Hillary.  The Dem party is even more splintered and appears to be lining up to do the same thing again in 2020.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

If you say so. What's better? The skyrocketing debt and deicer? The farmers losing their shirts because of Trump's trade war?

We had to play hardball with China to get them to make any concessions. We now have the beginning of an agreement. 

I'm not happy about the debt either, Trump hasn't kept his promise on that one. But no Democrat is running on reducing it.  Appears no one in Washington except for maybe Rand Paul is interested in dealing with it. ( Who was my 1st choice in 2016)

[tim_m]

At least Democrats on recent history have been reducing the deficit. You can't say that about any recent Republican presidents.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Ill concede that Bill Clinton was the last fiscally responsible President we had, we had a surplus.  Then George W gave it away.  We all got $650.00 checks if I remember correctly.  Something I never understood even back then.

[tim_m]

Ill concede that Bill Clinton was the last fiscally responsible President we had, we had a surplus.  Then George W gave it away.  We all got $650.00 checks if I remember correctly.  Something I never understood even back then.

I remember that! Mine want that much though. I think mine was around $250?

[pilferk]

At least Democrats on recent history have been reducing the deficit. You can't say that about any recent Republican presidents.

I'm sorry, but....this whole conversation has me in stitches.

We have the same trending economy we had under Obama...something the Repubs complained about constantly.  And Obama's economy grew at that rate while reducing the deficit significantly from the Bush years.

Our current economy is largely being kept afloat at those levels via increased government spending. Consumer spending has been relatively flat.

So "we" are paying more for the same economy. 

And the deal with China?  Experts/Economists say it's largely the same deal that was in place before the tariffs went into effect (mid 2017). It ups some Chinese commitments on farming goods (which, honestly, many experts doubt China will honor...at least at the levels detailed).  And it leaves in place a BUNCH of tariffs that hurt our economy.  Most of them say Trump backed down, and essentially gave in to China. Hardly a win.

So....we played "hardball" for....no reason?

 

Only Fox News and conservative media (and their consumers) could spin like this!!

Give 'em hell tim.  I'm wrapping up my capstone for school and I have no time for these debates right now.

[tim_m]

At least Democrats on recent history have been reducing the deficit. You can't say that about any recent Republican presidents.

I'm sorry, but....this whole conversation has me in stitches.

We have the same trending economy we had under Obama...something the Repubs complained about constantly.  And Obama's economy grew at that rate while reducing the deficit significantly from the Bush years.

Our current economy is largely being kept afloat at those levels via increased government spending. Consumer spending has been relatively flat.

So "we" are paying more for the same economy. 

And the deal with China?  Experts/Economists say it's largely the same deal that was in place before the tariffs went into effect (mid 2017). It ups some Chinese commitments on farming goods (which, honestly, many experts doubt China will honor...at least at the levels detailed).  And it leaves in place a BUNCH of tariffs that hurt our economy.  Most of them say Trump backed down, and essentially gave in to China. Hardly a win.

So....we played "hardball" for....no reason?

 

Only Fox News and conservative media (and their consumers) could spin like this!!

Give 'em hell tim.  I'm wrapping up my capstone for school and I have no time for these debates right now.

School? You hi back to college?

[pilferk]

School? You hi back to college?

Yup.  Some more (mostly meaningless) letters to add after my name.  The place I work is sort of a stickler about having the word "management" in one of your degrees somewhere if they are going to make you a manager, esp at the level they want me at.  Since they offered to pay for me to get that, I went back....about 2 years ago.

My last semester ever..unless I go back for ONE more degree starting next fall.  I'm thinking of adding a PhD in Business Intelligence and Data Analytics.  We'll see.....they've, again, offered to pay for it..so.....

[tim_m]

School? You hi back to college?

Yup.  Some more (mostly meaningless) letters to add after my name.  The place I work is sort of a stickler about having the word "management" in one of your degrees somewhere if they are going to make you a manager, esp at the level they want me at.  Since they offered to pay for me to get that, I went back....about 2 years ago.

My last semester ever..unless I go back for ONE more degree starting next fall.  I'm thinking of adding a PhD in Business Intelligence and Data Analytics.  We'll see.....they've, again, offered to pay for it..so.....

That's awesome especially having them foot the bill.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Only Fox News and conservative media (and their consumers) could spin like this!!

This seems to be always part of your answer to everything you dont agree with around here. I could accuse you of being a consumer of CNN/liberal media.   

[pilferk]

Only Fox News and conservative media (and their consumers) could spin like this!!

This seems to be always part of your answer to everything you dont agree with around here. I could accuse you of being a consumer of CNN/liberal media.  

I mean, I wasn't directly talking to you, so I can only assume you're feeling attacked because you do this sort of thing.

FYI: I don't watch cable news, except for election night coverage.  And then, yes, I usually turn into CNN to see numbers.

I hear the fox parrots a lot though.  It's a common thing among conservatives.  Pretty much verbatim quotes.  I say it a lot because it happens a lot. And my reply TO TIM was a reflection of an overall "parrot" sentiment on that topic, rather than a reflection on any singular reply in this thread.

But it's a nice (if obvious and futile) attempt at deflection.