GN?R Reps Confirm Ron ?Bumblefoot? Thal Has Left The Band

[D-GenerationX]

But thats the same with black ice, and death magnetic. I don't know lots of songs titles from these albums either. I think this is more because people don't sit down and read booklets like they used to before. Hey buy it online and listen to it.. its more like.. i like song nr. 3, 8 and 9 very good! Its sad, but thats how it is these days. People still listen to it, but they don't remember the song titles.

I would largely agree.

What I don't know, however, is if you said similar things to fanbases of AC/DC and Metallica about those albums, if they also flip the fuck out and really get their backs up and insist they were actually successful.  Then start asking you why you are here, and so forth.

That is what I do not know.  I know we have members of our crew that get VERY emotional when you try and say those things.  I'm not sure other band's fanbases follow suit.

[D-GenerationX]

By the way, why the criticism of Merck? He is the only half way decent manager the new band have ever had, granted his 'Tuesdays' comment backfired spectacularly. He seemed to generally want to release CD and was frustrated by his artist's tardiness. He also kept the fans up to date.

The criticism is because Axl threw him under the bus and accused him of fucking certain things up.

When Axl is down on you, he has fans that get down at that same exact moment.

I thought Merck was a mixed bag, personally.

[mortismurphy]

But thats the same with black ice, and death magnetic. I don't know lots of songs titles from these albums either. I think this is more because people don't sit down and read booklets like they used to before. Hey buy it online and listen to it.. its more like.. i like song nr. 3, 8 and 9 very good! Its sad, but thats how it is these days. People still listen to it, but they don't remember the song titles.

I would largely agree.

What I don't know, however, is if you said similar things to fanbases of AC/DC and Metallica about those albums, if they also flip the fuck out and really get their backs up and insist they were actually successful.  Then start asking you why you are here, and so forth.

That is what I do not know.  I know we have members of our crew that get VERY emotional when you try and say those things.  I'm not sure other band's fanbases follow suit.

The production of Death Magnetic was universally panned by the fan base to the extent that fans began producing their own remasters of it online. Can you imagine that here, if events like that happened with gnr? ''Why your toxicity and negativity?'' ''Go away''. I can just imagine a comment by Emily going something like, ''arm chair producers who think they know better than the band''.

[D-GenerationX]

The production of Death Magnetic was universally panned by the fan base to the extent that fans began producing their own remasters of it online. Can you imagine that here, if events like that happened with gnr? ''Why your toxicity and negativity?'' ''Go away''. I can just imagine a comment by Emily going something like, ''arm chair producers who think they know better than the band''.

Hahaha

Yeah, that would be a scene around here.

[C0ma]

By the way, why the criticism of Merck? He is the only half way decent manager the new band have ever had, granted his 'Tuesdays' comment backfired spectacularly. He seemed to generally want to release CD and was frustrated by his artist's tardiness. He also kept the fans up to date.

If Fernando wants to confirm anything, feel free...

My understanding of the situation was that Merck was making moves and interacting with people on behalf of the band and Axl without their guidance, then spinning it back to the band or covering it up to look like something else. He was also using the band as one of his 'chips' to further his role in Sanctuary Music (which obviously collapsed under its amazing leadership).

He also focused on the wrong shit... I like the transparency we get when Fernando or Beta post on the forums, but that is different then getting your panites in a bunch over what forum member is bringing what model cell phone to a concert and fighting with him in the forum and over gmail about it (darknemus).

[D-GenerationX]

Not trying to take a shot at Beta or Fernando, but if they have ever given us anything on the level of Merck's open letter...well, I must have been in the can.

[Nytunz]

Not trying to take a shot at Beta or Fernando, but if they have ever given us anything on the level of Merck's open letter...well, I must have been in the can.

Whats this thing about "giving us?" What do we want? New music, right? Maybe a tour in the future.. Guns N Roses makes the music, we go to a GNR concert to see GNR not Beta or Fernando.. (No offence^^ Im sure you guys can make music too  and i wouldn't mind meet you both, but I'm sure u understand my point) New music is ready when its ready.. There is nothing Team Brazil can do directly in that case. There has been some hinting about news coming in a few months.. ain`t that enough?

I don't need an open letter from Team Brazil.. what i need them to do is manage GNR, and release news when news is ready.. And I'm sure they are doing a great job in that regards..

[D-GenerationX]

Whats this thing about "giving us?" What do we want? New music, right? Maybe a tour in the future.. Guns N Roses makes the music, we go to a GNR concert to see GNR not Beta or Fernando.. (No offence^^ Im sure you guys can make music too  and i wouldn't mind meet you both, but I'm sure u understand my point) New music is ready when its ready.. There is nothing Team Brazil can do directly in that case. There has been some hinting about news coming in a few months.. ain`t that enough?

I don't need an open letter from Team Brazil.. what i need them to do is manage GNR, and release news when news is ready.. And I'm sure they are doing a great job in that regards..

Here is the point I was making.  Making I wasn't clear.

When Merck wrote that letter, what was the reaction?  When Axl wrote his letter, what was the reaction?  In both cases, there is huge mix of thanks, relief, and renewed excitement.

The most overheard comment after something like that some variation of how even I had begun to waver, but now I feel more encouraged. 

And the point I'm making is that TB has never done anything like that.  I think it would do them a world of good.  Everytime there is some communication, the mood around here (and even other forums) perks up big time.

[sky dog]

I am quite sure we don't know all the shit that went down with Merck...open letters or not...crazy shit.  Side publishing deals, merchandising, lawsuits, tuesdays....too funny or disturbing...you choose. 

[Fernando]

By the way, why the criticism of Merck? He is the only half way decent manager the new band have ever had, granted his 'Tuesdays' comment backfired spectacularly. He seemed to generally want to release CD and was frustrated by his artist's tardiness. He also kept the fans up to date.

If Fernando wants to confirm anything, feel free...

My understanding of the situation was that Merck was making moves and interacting with people on behalf of the band and Axl without their guidance, then spinning it back to the band or covering it up to look like something else. He was also using the band as one of his 'chips' to further his role in Sanctuary Music (which obviously collapsed under its amazing leadership).

He also focused on the wrong shit... I like the transparency we get when Fernando or Beta post on the forums, but that is different then getting your panites in a bunch over what forum member is bringing what model cell phone to a concert and fighting with him in the forum and over gmail about it (darknemus).

Don't get me started on Merck.  That guy was full of BS.  Isn't he in jail?  Last I heard, there were a few warrants out for his arrest.

[Fernando]

I am quite sure we don't know all the shit that went down with Merck...open letters or not...crazy shit.  Side publishing deals, merchandising, lawsuits, tuesdays....too funny or disturbing...you choose. 

This is so far behind me that I don't even know what tuesdays is..?  Sorry, I am new.

[RnT]

How is to live with Axl man? he sings in the shower? Did you catch him dancing a Britney Spears song, you look each other, he cursed you and ran to the kitchen?

[Spirit]

I am quite sure we don't know all the shit that went down with Merck...open letters or not...crazy shit.  Side publishing deals, merchandising, lawsuits, tuesdays....too funny or disturbing...you choose. 

This is so far behind me that I don't even know what tuesdays is..?  Sorry, I am new.

There's 13 Tuesdays left in 2006....

[damnthehaters]

Possibly; Black Ice was a huge success. What I meant by 'golden oldies' was a band who refuse to put out albums and subsist merely as a nostalgia Vegas act.

Ah yes. Putting out albums that sound like each other really makes you not part of that scene... Got it!



/jarmo

Somewhat correct in that assumption. AC/DC fans have new albums to buy and enjoy. Isn't that a wonderful thing? Most bands in fact do this except for Elvis Tribute Acts and Guns N' Roses.

I will never be accused of being an Axl rumpswab, but that is a terrible example. I am a huge AC/DC fan, and yes I buy everything they put out, but lets be honest since Razors edge in 1990-91 there has maybe been 1-2 OK songs on each album. You are going to see them for Past Catalog. Chinese Democracy isn't my favorite GnR album front to back, but in my opinion the following tracks are better than anything AC/DC or any other 'nostalgia' act has put out while simply releasing albums to release albums:
CD, Better, TWAT, Catcher, Street of Dreams, IRS, Maddy, This I Love (and maybe Prostitute).

Now this might be viewed as a bad comparison also due to the differing genre's, but Maroon 5 (sorry my wife listens to them which means I listen to them by proxy) has put out 5 albums since 2004 almost one every 2 years or so... but they have several chart toppers from each album. I get it they aren't everyone's cup of tea but Adam and James (Guitar) actually write some decent songs... they are where I get a little jealous from a fan base perspective thinking that it's just been 1 GnR album to their 5 albums... makes me a little sad wondering what we may have lost in a genius songwriters prime 94-08 while he was mired down in the business aspect of the band...

But what we got in 08 was very very good, and honestly sold well considering how the BB launch and other things that were handled pre TB got botched. Merks handling of the band and it's immediate follow up was nearly criminal how almost maliciously bad it went.

Black Ice is actually one of my favourite AC/DC albums. Rock or Bust is also great. Ballbreaker and SUP are less good but still solid enough albums. I've actually really liked DC's post Razor's Edge output. On the whole I would rate it better than their 1980s (post Back in Black) output.

By the way, why the criticism of Merck? He is the only half way decent manager the new band have ever had, granted his 'Tuesdays' comment backfired spectacularly. He seemed to generally want to release CD and was frustrated by his artist's tardiness. He also kept the fans up to date.

Great, you loved that album.  And you like some of their other albums as well.  There are people who loved CD as well.  Both were successful.  I love how you continuously claim CD wasn't succesful.  Why, because YOU didn't like it as much?  The numbers speak for themselves!  It was one of best selling rock albums at the time.  Is that not success?  Or does GNR have to be #1 for you to think they are successful?  I'm not even sure what you are arguing.  Are you saying ACDC is a better band because they put out more music?  Yeah, they have....so go to their web pages and suck their dicks.  

And DX's point about CD not making an impact or having songs that stood out.  Like someone else pointed out....neither did black ice.  I can't tell you one song off that album that I hear regularly on the radio or anywhere else.  So what's your definition of "huge" success?

Your expectations for GNR 20 plus years after they ruled the world, and after losing band members, is extremely too high.

[mortismurphy]

Possibly; Black Ice was a huge success. What I meant by 'golden oldies' was a band who refuse to put out albums and subsist merely as a nostalgia Vegas act.

Ah yes. Putting out albums that sound like each other really makes you not part of that scene... Got it!



/jarmo

Somewhat correct in that assumption. AC/DC fans have new albums to buy and enjoy. Isn't that a wonderful thing? Most bands in fact do this except for Elvis Tribute Acts and Guns N' Roses.

I will never be accused of being an Axl rumpswab, but that is a terrible example. I am a huge AC/DC fan, and yes I buy everything they put out, but lets be honest since Razors edge in 1990-91 there has maybe been 1-2 OK songs on each album. You are going to see them for Past Catalog. Chinese Democracy isn't my favorite GnR album front to back, but in my opinion the following tracks are better than anything AC/DC or any other 'nostalgia' act has put out while simply releasing albums to release albums:
CD, Better, TWAT, Catcher, Street of Dreams, IRS, Maddy, This I Love (and maybe Prostitute).

Now this might be viewed as a bad comparison also due to the differing genre's, but Maroon 5 (sorry my wife listens to them which means I listen to them by proxy) has put out 5 albums since 2004 almost one every 2 years or so... but they have several chart toppers from each album. I get it they aren't everyone's cup of tea but Adam and James (Guitar) actually write some decent songs... they are where I get a little jealous from a fan base perspective thinking that it's just been 1 GnR album to their 5 albums... makes me a little sad wondering what we may have lost in a genius songwriters prime 94-08 while he was mired down in the business aspect of the band...

But what we got in 08 was very very good, and honestly sold well considering how the BB launch and other things that were handled pre TB got botched. Merks handling of the band and it's immediate follow up was nearly criminal how almost maliciously bad it went.

Black Ice is actually one of my favourite AC/DC albums. Rock or Bust is also great. Ballbreaker and SUP are less good but still solid enough albums. I've actually really liked DC's post Razor's Edge output. On the whole I would rate it better than their 1980s (post Back in Black) output.

By the way, why the criticism of Merck? He is the only half way decent manager the new band have ever had, granted his 'Tuesdays' comment backfired spectacularly. He seemed to generally want to release CD and was frustrated by his artist's tardiness. He also kept the fans up to date.

Great, you loved that album.  And you like some of their other albums as well.  There are people who loved CD as well.  Both were successful.  I love how you continuously claim CD wasn't succesful.  Why, because YOU didn't like it as much?  The numbers speak for themselves!  It was one of best selling rock albums at the time.  Is that not success?  Or does GNR have to be #1 for you to think they are successful?  I'm not even sure what you are arguing.  Are you saying ACDC is a better band because they put out more music?  Yeah, they have....so go to their web pages and suck their dicks.  

I have claimed in the past - although not in this topic - that CD sold averagely. I do not see any reason to alter that position if we accept the fact that Black Ice is the best example of an analogy (it was released the same year and in roughly the same genre).

Fundamentally I like bands who release music. That is my point. One album in twenty four years is pathetic.

And your point about CD not having songs that stood out.  

Since I've never made that point I can only conclude that you are confusing me with someone else!

[Fernando]

How is to live with Axl man? he sings in the shower? Did you catch him dancing a Britney Spears song, you look each other, he cursed you and ran to the kitchen?

I don't live with Axl, so I wouldn't know about his showering routine.  However, one time I walked into Jarmo showering and that is exactly what he was doing.  Strange.

[RnT]

How is to live with Axl man? he sings in the shower? Did you catch him dancing a Britney Spears song, you look each other, he cursed you and ran to the kitchen?

I don't live with Axl, so I wouldn't know about his showering routine.  However, one time I walked into Jarmo showering and that is exactly what he was doing.  Strange.

haha sorry, I tho you guys lived in his house (my bad).
Hey Jarmo, baby one more time?

[HBK]

How is to live with Axl man? he sings in the shower? Did you catch him dancing a Britney Spears song, you look each other, he cursed you and ran to the kitchen?

I don't live with Axl, so I wouldn't know about his showering routine.  However, one time I walked into Jarmo showering and that is exactly what he was doing.  Strange.

Gimme, Baby, One More Times !!!

 

[damnthehaters]

Great, you loved that album.  And you like some of their other albums as well.  There are people who loved CD as well.  Both were successful.  I love how you continuously claim CD wasn't succesful.  Why, because YOU didn't like it as much?  The numbers speak for themselves!  It was one of best selling rock albums at the time.  Is that not success?  Or does GNR have to be #1 for you to think they are successful?  I'm not even sure what you are arguing.  Are you saying ACDC is a better band because they put out more music?  Yeah, they have....so go to their web pages and suck their dicks.  

I have claimed in the past - although not in this topic - that CD sold averagely. I do not see any reason to alter that position if we accept the fact that Black Ice is the best example of an analogy (it was released the same year and in roughly the same genre).

Fundamentally I like bands who release music. That is my point. One album in twenty four years is pathetic.

[/quote]

Then why are you here?  You said it yourself, "one album in twenty four years is pathetic". Doesn't seem like GNR fits with you

[EmilyGNR]

But thats the same with black ice, and death magnetic. I don't know lots of songs titles from these albums either. I think this is more because people don't sit down and read booklets like they used to before. Hey buy it online and listen to it.. its more like.. i like song nr. 3, 8 and 9 very good! Its sad, but thats how it is these days. People still listen to it, but they don't remember the song titles.

I would largely agree.

What I don't know, however, is if you said similar things to fanbases of AC/DC and Metallica about those albums, if they also flip the fuck out and really get their backs up and insist they were actually successful.  Then start asking you why you are here, and so forth.

That is what I do not know.  I know we have members of our crew that get VERY emotional when you try and say those things.  I'm not sure other band's fanbases follow suit.

The production of Death Magnetic was universally panned by the fan base to the extent that fans began producing their own remasters of it online. Can you imagine that here, if events like that happened with gnr? ''Why your toxicity and negativity?'' ''Go away''. I can just imagine a comment by Emily going something like, ''arm chair producers who think they know better than the band''.

Emily knows that armchair is one word