Buckethead vs. Robin (Chinese Democracy related)

[danielgnr]

they're both amazing musicians and their work on chinese democracy is proof of that.  but in my mind, they're both disloyal traitors.  once they got what they wanted from axl's genius, they deserted him and stabbed him in the back.  it's a shame such promising guitarists could act like such selfish children.  oh well, hopefully their time with a true genius (axl) will inspire them to make more great music in the future.  not that i'd buy it.

I don't think they are traitors, I believe they were "forced" to leave the band, I mean, who wants to spend so many years inactive!

[falungong69]

they're both amazing musicians and their work on chinese democracy is proof of that.  but in my mind, they're both disloyal traitors.  once they got what they wanted from axl's genius, they deserted him and stabbed him in the back.  it's a shame such promising guitarists could act like such selfish children.  oh well, hopefully their time with a true genius (axl) will inspire them to make more great music in the future.  not that i'd buy it.

I don't think they are traitors, I believe they were "forced" to leave the band, I mean, who wants to spend so many years inactive!

oh please.  the fact that they abandoned axl is what contributed to the delays and inactivity.  axl didn't force anyone to do anything -- except to make the best music they've ever made or ever will make.  if their way of saying thanks is to take the money and run, then maybe they really weren't cut out to be gnr in the first place.  which is a shame, because they're both very talented. 

[ppbebe]

I don't think they were Forced to do anything...or turned traitor to GNR.

They aren't bad mouthing axl are they? BH thanked to Axl and the GNR family on the booklet.

[Jim Bob]

I don't think they were Forced to do anything...or turned traitor to GNR.

They aren't bad mouthing axl are they? BH thanked to Axl and the GNR family on the booklet.

you are correct..  and Axl's attitude towards them doesn't seem very hostile and he's said he is open to working with both players again in the future.

Robin had a great opportunity to tour with his old mate Trent and took it up.  I don't think it was anything personal against Axl or his GnR bandmates because I know he has been good friends with some of them.   Buckethead likes to do his own thing and has put out a lot of his own stuff and again I don't think thats anything against the guys in Guns.

[coolman78SLASH]

they're both amazing musicians and their work on chinese democracy is proof of that.  but in my mind, they're both disloyal traitors.  once they got what they wanted from axl's genius, they deserted him and stabbed him in the back.  it's a shame such promising guitarists could act like such selfish children.  oh well, hopefully their time with a true genius (axl) will inspire them to make more great music in the future.  not that i'd buy it.

I don't think they are traitors, I believe they were "forced" to leave the band, I mean, who wants to spend so many years inactive!

oh please.  the fact that they abandoned axl is what contributed to the delays and inactivity.  axl didn't force anyone to do anything -- except to make the best music they've ever made or ever will make.  if their way of saying thanks is to take the money and run, then maybe they really weren't cut out to be gnr in the first place.  which is a shame, because they're both very talented. 

Falungong69, I think you take this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to serious, and, not meaning to be disrespectful at you at all, but sometimes how you express yourself in here is kind of spooky..  People who take their idols to serious, like you do, tend to be the same people who do freaky stuff.. Think: John Lennon, think: Dimebag... I think you should reflect a bit, chill down, and let Axl & co speak for themselves on how they feel, and no matter how they feel, its their personal feelings, and this have absolutly nothing to do with you, me or anybody else.. We are fans of MUSIC, and we need to not let some band drama affect us as much as many of us do, and especially you. Hope you dont take this the wrong way, its just that I care, and hope you'll see my point, if not right now, than hopefully soon. Take care dude!

[D]

Tryin to put my bias aside

Bucket's Twat and Sorry solos makes me really sad he wasnt the "Featured" lead player on all of the songs

Bucket not only can play fast but  I give him props on TWAT and Sorry, he played very emotional also.

Would've loved to hear him solo on Catcher and This I Love

[SirTed]

I like Bucket more than Robin.

That said, Chinese is nothing without Robin. Period. The very best thing, it seems to me about Axl is his ability to let the different members play to their own strengths. This I Love, to me is an okay song. BUT that Robin solo in the middle is absolutely fucking scorching. The attitude reflected to me in that piece could not be matched by another player, period. This is only one example, and there are many others.  I am sad to see them both go. I've expressed my reservations about Ashba in other threads, so I don't need to get into them here. That said, I'd bet anyone that he and Axl will find a way to make him shine in a way that we haven't seen from the other two players. I don't know if it will be in a song writting sense, or if it will be in a live setting, but it will be something. I know that much.

 I worry, like we all do when there are changes, and sometimes it all feels like too much, but truth be told, Axl has yet to let us down once the final product reaches us. In both the sense of a new album (CD) or in live performance (2002 + 2006).

[-Rob-]

Tryin to put my bias aside

Bucket's Twat and Sorry solos makes me really sad he wasnt the "Featured" lead player on all of the songs

I wouldn't have minded to have seen this either.

Like I said earlier, Robin just never really did that much for me. I'm not trying to put him down, but it's not like there aren't other guitar players out there who have his ability.

I catch a few local bands on a monthly basis and I see guys who I consider to be every bit as good. I don't know much about DJ's past work, but I really don't think the shoes he'll be filling are all that big.

If these most recent video and tour delays are the result of Robin's departure, that's really unfortunate.  While I can understand him getting tired of the endless bouts of inactivity and delays, you would think that having dedicated 10 years of your life to a project would have been reason to at least stick around until the curtain was finally unveiled.

Maybe he really didn't think 2008 was the year? Or maybe he just had enough of the politics and wanted to get back to doing what he seems to enjoy .... touring.

Tough to say. I hope he's happy with his decision regardless of his reasons.

[D]

I just think with a guy of Bucket's talent, it may be insulting having other guys inferior to his talent playing solos instead of him.

[-Rob-]

I just think with a guy of Bucket's talent, it may be insulting having other guys inferior to his talent playing solos instead of him.

But didn't we already cross that bridge on the 2006/2007 tour?

At least now we have members who seem to be a little more normal and down to earth. You know, willing to chat with their fans without a sock puppet.

But I hear what you're saying, he could play a guitar.

[falungong69]

they're both amazing musicians and their work on chinese democracy is proof of that.  but in my mind, they're both disloyal traitors.  once they got what they wanted from axl's genius, they deserted him and stabbed him in the back.  it's a shame such promising guitarists could act like such selfish children.  oh well, hopefully their time with a true genius (axl) will inspire them to make more great music in the future.  not that i'd buy it.

I don't think they are traitors, I believe they were "forced" to leave the band, I mean, who wants to spend so many years inactive!

oh please.  the fact that they abandoned axl is what contributed to the delays and inactivity.  axl didn't force anyone to do anything -- except to make the best music they've ever made or ever will make.  if their way of saying thanks is to take the money and run, then maybe they really weren't cut out to be gnr in the first place.  which is a shame, because they're both very talented. 

Falungong69, I think you take this waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to serious, and, not meaning to be disrespectful at you at all, but sometimes how you express yourself in here is kind of spooky..  People who take their idols to serious, like you do, tend to be the same people who do freaky stuff.. Think: John Lennon, think: Dimebag... I think you should reflect a bit, chill down, and let Axl & co speak for themselves on how they feel, and no matter how they feel, its their personal feelings, and this have absolutly nothing to do with you, me or anybody else.. We are fans of MUSIC, and we need to not let some band drama affect us as much as many of us do, and especially you. Hope you dont take this the wrong way, its just that I care, and hope you'll see my point, if not right now, than hopefully soon. Take care dude!

correct me if i'm wrong, but when buckethead decided to abandon gnr and axl, didn't axl explain it in a press release?  he said that bucket was more concerned with advancing his solo career and didn't care about what was best for gnr.  it's why he quit right before a big show. 

on one hand, i've got your word.  on the other hand, i've got the word of axl rose.  when it comes to all things gnr, i'll trust axl over you.  or any other anonymous stranger on the internet. 

sorry if band drama isn't your thing.  so axl can come out and call slash the cancer that he is.  axl can come out and tell us how bucket sold gnr out to promote his solo career.  but if i'm not allowed to have the same opinion?  once again... i'll take axl's word over yours.  but thanks!

[jarmo]

I just think with a guy of Bucket's talent, it may be insulting having other guys inferior to his talent playing solos instead of him.

Please.

I thought you of all people would know the difference between going for just technical talent and going for the right feel on a track.





/jarmo

[Jim Bob]

I just think with a guy of Bucket's talent, it may be insulting having other guys inferior to his talent playing solos instead of him.

Please.

I thought you of all people would know the difference between going for just technical talent and going for the right feel on a track.





/jarmo

Yea, like Robin's better solo, I can't see Buckethead doing something better in that place.  And I can't see Robin doing something better where Buckehead put his.   Different players, different feel.. worked well together.

[GypsySoul]

correct me if i'm wrong, but when buckethead decided to abandon gnr and axl, didn't axl explain it in a press release?  he said that bucket was more concerned with advancing his solo career and didn't care about what was best for gnr.  it's why he quit right before a big show. 

on one hand, i've got your word.  on the other hand, i've got the word of axl rose.  when it comes to all things gnr, i'll trust axl over you.  or any other anonymous stranger on the internet. 

sorry if band drama isn't your thing.  so axl can come out and call slash the cancer that he is.  axl can come out and tell us how bucket sold gnr out to promote his solo career.  but if i'm not allowed to have the same opinion?  once again... i'll take axl's word over yours.  but thanks!

Axl had no problem swappin his dr. pepper spit with Bucket so, like coolman said, you're taking this waaaaaay too seriously ..... to the point of creepy.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1878

We are surprised and very happy to have the support of Dr. Pepper with our album Chinese Democracy as for us this came totally out of the blue. If there is any involvement with this promotion by our record company or others we are unaware of such at this time. And as some of Buckethead's performances are on our album I'll share my Dr. Pepper with him.

Axl Rose

[ShotgunBlues1978]

Again I'm not saying that Robin should not have been a part of CD or GNR, I'm just not convinced that he was necessarily cut out to be the true lead guitarist at least for the type of album that CD eventually became.  I think that is evidenced in some way by Axl's comments after Robin's initial departure and the fact that Brian May and Buckethead were brought in, and the way that Bucket in many ways elevated songs that were written long before he arrived to a much higher level.

This is a lot of speculation but I've often wondered if there was an awkward dynamic created by bringing Robin back into the fold as a "lead" guitarist along with Bucket after Robin had already left.  I'm not trying to insult Robin but in my opinion he was totally overshadowed and outshone by Bucket during the 2001/2002 live shows.  Bucket during those shows kind of emerged as the other guy people paid attention to aside from Axl.  

To Robin's credit, he stepped up big time in 2006/2007 in terms of both presence and performance.  But to me, in terms of guitars, Buckethead stole the show on CD, wrote more songs, and Ron did a fantastic job with his rhythm work on the entire album and enjoy his bonkers solos, and especially his beautiful outro on Catcher, he had a big impact for coming on so late.  Robin had some great soulful solos, some sweet licks but his presence on the more aggressive songs is not very pronounced

Nonetheless I'm very satisfied with the final product, very happy with Robin's work, certainly would not be the same without him.  As others have mentioned, I think a big part of my enjoyment of the album is the interesting blend of different style guitarists present.  However, I do wonder the "issues" with getting the album done had to do with some awkwardness or perhaps chemistry issues created reintegrating Robin into a lead role.  Objectively speaking, Bucket is the better guitarist, although by all accounts he is a very nice and humble guy, I can't help but think it may have been frustrating for him in some ways

[draguns]

I think without Robin, CD would not have Better. Better is the best rock song on this album. I think TWAT would not have been as good if Buckethead was  not on this album. Both played their parts well.

[greekmule]

Both are great players, I prefer Robin though

[GNR4L]

what I wanted to say is that Slash is an incredible performer, his onstage attitude is amazing, he's incredibly magnetic at the point you cant stop looking at him in the shows. He moves around, runs, jumps, he has a lot of ''strenght'' live,

maybe you mean he was? 
 

Or maybe he means that he is and you simply disagree.

Anyhow, regarding the OP's statement, in alot of ways, I completely agree. It's not that I didn't think Robin could play the guitar, I just never saw anything special about his playing, or anything that made him stand out as being unique. I know of a local bands in my area who have guitarists that can play every bit as good, if not better, than Robin.

While I enjoyed some of Bucket's solos, his freak factor, and the people he drew to those 2002 shows, is what turned me off most about his tenure in the band. When I go to see a GN'R show, I can do without the nun-chuck circus act, and being surrounded by a bunch of bucket wearing individuals. I do enjoy his melodic stuff though, and have recommened his 'Colma' and 'Electric Tears' albums to quite a few who have admitted to really enjoying them.

In a nutshell, I can't say that I was overly bothered by either's departure. But if I had to choose one to come back, I would tolerate Bucket's gimmick just to hear some more of those wild riffs that he was able to produce.

There's better local guitar players in your city that are better than Robin your kidding right ?

[Voodoochild]

^ Yeah, that's what happens when you write before thinking.

And Rob avoided my questions about this statement. Wonder why...

Ok, probably his importance as composer is not important for some people, let's focus on his work as a guitar player, in my opinion he doesn't have the "feeling" to play the old tunes, I must admit his work on Chinese is acceptable, but Gn'r is not a "one album band" they have 5 albums more, and I think it's really important to have a guitarist who can play the old songs as well. I'm not saying Robin can't play those songs, I mean he doesn't have the style.  One small example, Sweet child, he totally ruins the solo, probably some guys won't agree but that's what I think.

I think Robin's SCOM solo better than Slash. And pretty much all of his playing on old songs as well.

That said, Chinese is nothing without Robin. Period. The very best thing, it seems to me about Axl is his ability to let the different members play to their own strengths. This I Love, to me is an okay song. BUT that Robin solo in the middle is absolutely fucking scorching. The attitude reflected to me in that piece could not be matched by another player, period. This is only one example, and there are many others. 

Ditto. People who says any other player could do better than that is just being bitter IMO. That solo is state of art and full of emotion - matching perfectly with Axl's lyrics and vocals.

[estebanf]

Robin's SCOM solo is way way better, more powerful, unpredictable and adrenalinical than Slash's