Lincoln Voted The #1 President By Historians

[western_chaos]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090215/ap_on_go_pr_wh/ranking_presidents

Lincoln ranked best president by historians

WASHINGTON ? Just days after the nation honored the 200th anniversary of his birth, 65 historians ranked Abraham Lincoln as the nation's best president.

Former President George W. Bush, who left office last month, was ranked 36th out of the 42 men who had been chief executive by the end of 2008, according to a survey conducted by the cable channel C-SPAN.

Bush scored lowest in international relations, where he was ranked 41st, and in economic management, where he was ranked 40th. His highest ranking, 24th, was in the category of pursuing equal justice for all. He was ranked 25th in crisis leadership and vision and agenda setting.

In contrast, Lincoln was ranked in the top three in each of the 10 categories evaluated by participants.

In C-SPAN's only other ranking of presidents, in 2000, former President Bill Clinton jumped six spots from No. 21 to 15. Other recent presidents moved positions as well: Ronald Reagan advanced from No. 11 to 10, George H.W. Bush rose from No. 20 to 18 and Jimmy Carter fell from No. 22 to 25.

This movement illustrates that presidential reputations are influenced by present-day concerns, said survey adviser and participant Edna Medford.

"Today's concerns shape our views of the past, be it in the area of foreign policy, managing the economy or human rights," Medford said in a statement.

After Lincoln, the academics rated George Washington, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt and Harry Truman as the best leaders overall. The same five received top spots in the 2000 survey, although Washington and Franklin D. Roosevelt swapped spots this year.

Rated worst overall were James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, William Henry Harrison and Warren G. Harding.

The survey was conducted in December and January. Participants ranked each president on a scale of one, "not effective" to 10, "very effective," on a list of 10 leadership qualities including relations with Congress, public persuasion and moral authority.

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I'm suprised George W. even made it that high, but not suprising to see Lincoln/Washington taking the #1, #2 spots.

[SLCPUNK]

I bet ACORN has something to do with this horeshit!

[D]

How could it not be George Washington? Without him, we'd be property of Great Britain.

we had a great debate a year or two ago about Lincoln on this forum, so I don't know if I'd put him number 1.

[western_chaos]

How could it not be George Washington? Without him, we'd be property of Great Britain.

we had a great debate a year or two ago about Lincoln on this forum, so I don't know if I'd put him number 1.

Washington is second...

How can you claim something that happened wouldn't have happened when you really don't know how it would have played out?

Besides, none of us were even alive at the time.

[D]

Washington is the father of our country for a reason.

Lincoln had a Civil War on his watch and I don't know how great his "intentions" were on the slavery issue.

I don't think people ask enough questions about it. The end result was great but I'm not sure it was "morally" driven.

[freedom78]

Washington is the father of our country for a reason.

Lincoln had a Civil War on his watch and I don't know how great his "intentions" were on the slavery issue.

I don't think people ask enough questions about it. The end result was great but I'm not sure it was "morally" driven.

Fair enough, but Washington didn't win the war as President.  He won the war and used that prominence to become President.  A great accomplishment is still great...but that one wasn't Presidential.  If we put Carter at the top of the list because he does wonderful charity work, we could similarly point out that that's not part of his Presidency...just his character post-office. 

If we count things done throughout a lifetime, rather than just while in office, you'd have to put Jefferson higher than #7...after all, he did author our Declaration.

[Mal Brossard]

How can W.H. Harrison be rated one of the worst?  He was only in office for a month before dying, that's not enough time to fuck up.

[freedom78]

How can W.H. Harrison be rated one of the worst?  He was only in office for a month before dying, that's not enough time to fuck up.

Yeah...seems as though his ranking should be "N/A" (or "DOA"  ).

[Axl4Prez2004]

Washington is the father of our country for a reason.

Lincoln had a Civil War on his watch and I don't know how great his "intentions" were on the slavery issue.

I don't think people ask enough questions about it. The end result was great but I'm not sure it was "morally" driven.

D, I get what you are angling at...but it is a fact Lincoln was opposed to slavery.  I just watched a great special on Lincoln on C-Span the other night.  Abe did NOT believe in racial equality.  Freedom for slaves yes, but racial equality and interracial marriage, hell no.  He did advocate in his debates with Douglass the deportation of freed slaves to Africa.

All that said, had he been an ardent abolitionist and supporter of negro rights at the time, he never would have been elected.

Lincoln is so highly rated because of not only how he handled himself in a time of war, but how he handled the peace afterwards.  His ranking is justified. 

[western_chaos]

Yeah, these rankings are based on how people view a president at this given time.

Who Knows? Maybe George w. will be rated higher or lower ten years from now.

[Loaded NightraiN]

Did anybody watch the History channel special about Lincolns grave?


That was some crazy shit!

[ppbebe]

He's the most globally respected American president of all time.

everyone knows the phrase 'the government of the people, by the people, for the people'.

[loretian]

Woohoo!  Lincoln deserves it.

He was a complex man, but then, who isn't?

The republican party was founded on the ideal of abolishing slavery.  Lincoln was actually considered a moderate republican at the time, because he wasn't interested in abolishing slavery, but in preventing it's growth (to the recently "added/conquered" states from the westward expansion/disgusting conquering of land).

He fought the south because he felt he needed to preserve the union.  As the war continued, his Christianity strengthened, and he began to see black men as equals, and so his purpose changed to not just saving the union, but to truly freeing the black man from slavery, and viewing them as equals.

A large part of his change in mind was due to meeting Frederick Douglas, who was a profoundly intelligent and Christian man.

It's very interesting how strong of a role Christianity played in the lives of the men who ended slavery in both America and in Britain.  In fact, we find that the very concept of human rights and equality, as it exists in western civilization (and did not exist in the Rome (the republic or empire) or the Greek states), comes directly from Jesus.

[oldgunsfan]

Washington is the father of our country for a reason.

Lincoln had a Civil War on his watch and I don't know how great his "intentions" were on the slavery issue.

I don't think people ask enough questions about it. The end result was great but I'm not sure it was "morally" driven.

D, I get what you are angling at...but it is a fact Lincoln was opposed to slavery.  I just watched a great special on Lincoln on C-Span the other night.  Abe did NOT believe in racial equality.  Freedom for slaves yes, but racial equality and interracial marriage, hell no.  He did advocate in his debates with Douglass the deportation of freed slaves to Africa.

All that said, had he been an ardent abolitionist and supporter of negro rights at the time, he never would have been elected.

Lincoln is so highly rated because of not only how he handled himself in a time of war, but how he handled the peace afterwards.  His ranking is justified. 

Lincoln was assanitated before the Civil War ended and was never able to carry out his vision for "the peace afterwards"; historians argue that if Lincoln wasn't assinated and able to carry out his 2nd term; the course of reconstruction/race relations may have been very different.

As for who should get the top spot, hard to say who was better.  I mean, Washington kept the idea of an Independant nation alive long enought to actually win the Revolutionary War-which looking back, is a miracle in and of itself.

And Lincoln, the man inherited a country where 7 states had already seceded the union and 4 border states were threatening to secede before he was even inaguarated.

IMO, they are both interchangeable at the top of the list

[oldgunsfan]

Did anybody watch the History channel special about Lincolns grave?

That was some crazy shit!

I saw the last hour of it as the first hour conflicted with 24
but it was some very crazy shit and I was never aware of it till the HC show

[Dr. Blutarsky]

I agree with the rankings. Lincoln was the best IMO. He presided over some of the most difficult events of our country's history.

Truman was very unpopular when he left office but he is now near the top. Carter has fared batter as time went on. Should be interesting to see how W is looked back upon in 20 years.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Loretian, I have the utmost respect for people of faith...but this statement: 

"In fact, we find that the very concept of human rights and equality, as it exists in western civilization (and did not exist in the Rome (the republic or empire) or the Greek states), comes directly from Jesus."

...is complete and utter horseshit.  There have been many cultures throughout time (and before Christianity for that matter) that held these principles...we don't read about many of them because they were destroyed by those who, in Axl's words, "carried the cross of homicide." 

...directly from Jesus?   

[freedom78]

Loretian, I have the utmost respect for people of faith...but this statement: 

"In fact, we find that the very concept of human rights and equality, as it exists in western civilization (and did not exist in the Rome (the republic or empire) or the Greek states), comes directly from Jesus."

...is complete and utter horseshit.  There have been many cultures throughout time (and before Christianity for that matter) that held these principles...we don't read about many of them because they were destroyed by those who, in Axl's words, "carried the cross of homicide." 

...directly from Jesus?   

To add to that thought, why are people who are religious more likely to support the party that supports starting wars, torturing prisoners, etc.  How they jive that with Christianity, I"ll never understand. 

I give credit to Catholics...at least their stance is consistent from abortion to the death penalty. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

Freedom, you may want to adjust that by saying, "The Catholic Church" because half of the "Catholics" I know don't agree with a lot of the Church's bullshit.

...but yes, I agree with your point.   

[freedom78]

Freedom, you may want to adjust that by saying, "The Catholic Church" because half of the "Catholics" I know don't agree with a lot of the Church's bullshit.

...but yes, I agree with your point.   

I'm too lazy to fix it.