North Korea detonates nuclear weapon

[Surfrider]

I am sure that will be the line from the left - we shouldn't have invaded Iraq, we should have invaded North Korea.?

Anyone with a passing knowledge of geography (China) and world politics (China) knows that an invasion of NK was and is completely out of the question whether they are right, left or center politically.

Which is exactly why the Iraq war is a non-issue.

[Surfrider]

I am sure that will be the line from the left - we shouldn't have invaded Iraq, we should have invaded North Korea.? While I tend to agree in hindsight, I am skeptical that anyone on the left would have been for invading North Korea regardless of the circumstances.? Of course, it doesn't surprise me that this will somehow get blamed on Bush and Iraq.? Everything does.

who said anything about invading?? my point was the real threat was not iraq (do you still think it was??).? Invading a country was how Iran/N. Korea were able to build their nukes in the first place.? please don't put words in my mouth.

Typical of bush loyalists - don't blame bush!? So who should be blamed?? I suppose this is Clinton's fault right?? ? I guess katrina, iraq and all of our other problems shouldn't be blamed on bush either?!?!?

Dude HannahHat it's a losing arguement.? Bush loyalists have an amazing ability to just forget about such things as the "great WMD witch-hunt of '04" and the awesome intel that turned out to be a crockery of shiite.?

And a few of you have an amazing ability to not read entire posts. 

[The Dog]

well, if we had just attacked their nuke facilities by air or special forces then that would have been fine. 

That's if you know where they are (see Iraq)

There aren't any in Iraq, there weren't to begin with.

[Surfrider]

I am sure that will be the line from the left - we shouldn't have invaded Iraq, we should have invaded North Korea.? While I tend to agree in hindsight, I am skeptical that anyone on the left would have been for invading North Korea regardless of the circumstances.? Of course, it doesn't surprise me that this will somehow get blamed on Bush and Iraq.? Everything does.

who said anything about invading?? my point was the real threat was not iraq (do you still think it was??).? Invading a country was how Iran/N. Korea were able to build their nukes in the first place.? please don't put words in my mouth.

Typical of bush loyalists - don't blame bush!? So who should be blamed?? I suppose this is Clinton's fault right?? ? I guess katrina, iraq and all of our other problems shouldn't be blamed on bush either?!?!?

The nuclear program in North Korea started long before the invasion of Iraq.? It wasn't that that led to it at all.

it certainly accelerated it.? The war in iraq also distracted the US from making sure Iran and Korea didn't do exactly what both countries did - develop nuclear weapons programs.? The neo-cons thought Iraq would be over in a few months and it would be a smashing success and before the last troop was even home there would be flag thumping speeches about bringing democracy to the poor people of N. Korea....? But nothing went as planned (maybe b/c? they didn't actually have a plan??) so here we are now just a few years later - iraq is a mess, afghanistan isn't secure, osama is still hiding in caves and the north koreans and soon iran will have nukes.? But I guess we shouldn't blame anyone right??

If you don't advocate military force against them, what were supposed to do? ?How was NK going to listen to us? ?The main reason Bush NK has gone as far as it has gone is because no other country is willing to support the US's ultimatums. ?The US has - rightly so in my opinion - refused to engage in two party talks with the North Koreans. ?We did it before, and the North Koreans violated it. ?The Security Council is not willing to do anything. ?Basically our only option is to give in to them - which hasn't worked before - or attack them. ?You said that you are not advocating the latter option.

[TAP]

well, if we had just attacked their nuke facilities by air or special forces then that would have been fine. 

That's if you know where they are (see Iraq)

There aren't any in Iraq, there weren't to begin with.

Exactly. Why do you think the intelligence on NK is any better? If they (NK) have any sense, they won't have their nuclear bombs lined up in a row in a field for easy destruction - you can hide the materials, and especially the knowledge/scientists pretty much anywhere.

[Surfrider]

well, if we had just attacked their nuke facilities by air or special forces then that would have been fine.?

That's if you know where they are (see Iraq)

There aren't any in Iraq, there weren't to begin with.

There was in 1981 when Israel took them out.  I believe that was what he was referring to.

[mrlee]

I wonder if bush will invade this place. i doubt it, hes not taking shitty countries anymore with people armed with ye olde weapons.......this is serious business and danger.

And who wants to place bets that if america goes to war over  there our stupid prime minister will take england with them?

[TAP]

I wonder if bush will invade this place. i doubt it, hes not taking shitty countries anymore with people armed with ye olde weapons.......this is serious business and danger.

And who wants to place bets that if america goes to war over  there our stupid prime minister will take england with them?

About .1% chance that the US will invade and even less chance the UK will follow - they don't even have enough troops available for their Afghanistan adventure.

[TAP]

well, if we had just attacked their nuke facilities by air or special forces then that would have been fine. 

That's if you know where they are (see Iraq)

There aren't any in Iraq, there weren't to begin with.

There was in 1981 when Israel took them out.  I believe that was what he was referring to.

I was referring to the intelligence in the Iraq war but your point is taken.

[ARC]

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds
Have no fear for atomic energy
Cause none of them can stop the time."

Bob M.

[Charity Case]

I get a real kick out of some of you.  Everyone wants to bash the US (and Bush) over the North Korea thing because we invaded Iraq (the two have nothing to do with each other btw), yet not one of you has berated other countries that sit by and do nothing.  If the US made a big mistake in Iraq (like most of you think) that has overextended our military thereby making it such that we can't handle the North Korea thing, then why doesn't another country step up and take care of North Korea and Iran?  Why does it have to be the US all the time?  Why not Germany or Russia or China or India? 

I have a question for you Europeans that make idiotic statements like "you haven't lived in the real world until you live outside the US"....what has your country done to stop NK or Iran?  I imagine about a million percent less than the US has.  Instead of pointing fingers at the soft target (the US), point your finger at your own leaders and ask yourself why they haven't done anything to make the world safer. 

Oh and BTW, if the US chose to handle NK militarily with no nation building like in Iraq, it would take all of 2 weeks to end that regime and destroy all its weapons and capabilities.  We wouldn't have to put more than 40,000 troops on the group to get it done.  Unfortunately that action would put our allies in Japan and S. Korea in great peril.  You US bashers need to look big picture and realize the US isn't to blame for all the problems in the world....religion is.

[smithandheston]

America haters always intrest me. I understand that power is a currency and its normal for the have-less and have-nots to be envious. Once upon a time we and the Soviet Union were the two duling superpowers and since Stalin killed 8 million the world decided to hate them (hey "less of 2 evils") but we destoryed them and now were solo on the power stand.... so were left alone to be blamed and hated by everyone elce.

It makes me sick the United States of America has free'd more people than any other nation in the history of civilization... thats just reality. Were we perfect? Are we perfect" hell no. We have done lots of wrong over the years but the right and gloryious topples the wrong.... makes it almost worthy of forgeting.

I have been all around the world in my less than 30 years both as a solider and as a drifter. Ive seen all kinds of cultures, good and bad; lovely and evil. This continuous jorney of mine has only reaffirmed my belifes in the American way.

Earlier today when i was bickering with the gentleman who goes by the name hannahat he mentioned the hell in Darfur; truthfully its just another sad example of the hell that Africa is. its just one war after another and genocide in run like a mill. Just look at Chad, Angola, and siera L. The world has abandoned that continent for along time as sick as it makes me I belive it is truly beyond saving..... I spent close to 2 years wondering it.

I'm just sharing my thoughts on the world in an incomplete nutshell and looking for discussion. I am one to engage in fierce political debate and fighting but thats not what this post is about... if ur gunna reply id just like to hear all of ur thoughts

thank you

[Brody]

....and Iran will be nulcear soon too.  By invading Iraq, the other two countries in the "axis" shit their pants and thought they'd be next.  While both countries are led by nut jobs, they weren't trying to go nuclear.  How ironic that the country we invade b/c our "intelligence" says they have WMD had nothing at all - and while distracted there, the real threats had time to build up their nuke programs.   More so then the failed war in Iraq, letting N. korea and eventually Iran go nuclear will be the true failure of the bush administration.  can November get here any faster?   

Both Iran and NK were trying to go nuclear! North Korea would be the failure of Clinton and Albrights Failed policy of appeasement!

[The Dog]

....and Iran will be nulcear soon too.  By invading Iraq, the other two countries in the "axis" shit their pants and thought they'd be next.  While both countries are led by nut jobs, they weren't trying to go nuclear.  How ironic that the country we invade b/c our "intelligence" says they have WMD had nothing at all - and while distracted there, the real threats had time to build up their nuke programs.   More so then the failed war in Iraq, letting N. korea and eventually Iran go nuclear will be the true failure of the bush administration.  can November get here any faster?   

Both Iran and NK were trying to go nuclear! North Korea would be the failure of Clinton and Albrights Failed policy of appeasement!

Well it only took 4 pages folks but here we have it! Our first "blame Clinton!!"

Since the time Bush labeled North Korea part of the axis of evil NK has withdrawn from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, announced it has nuclear weapons, refused to return to six-nation talks and launched seven missiles into the Sea of Japan, including a long-range Taepodong-2.  What did Bush do about it?  Did he even know about it to begin with (he doesn't read the newspaper you know  ).  But you're right, we should blame the last 6 years on Clinton.  Sorry dude, its not going to work anymore.  People aren't buying it.  Just look at the polls.  As of this time, on AOL.com a poll asking, "How well has Bush handled the North Korea issue since taking office?"  47% said Not at all and 27% said somewhat.

[Brody]

You were saying that nk just happend to start making nukes since Bush was in office  Not true.

I get a real kick out of some of you.  Everyone wants to bash the US (and Bush) over the North Korea thing because we invaded Iraq (the two have nothing to do with each other btw), yet not one of you has berated other countries that sit by and do nothing.  If the US made a big mistake in Iraq (like most of you think) that has overextended our military thereby making it such that we can't handle the North Korea thing, then why doesn't another country step up and take care of North Korea and Iran?  Why does it have to be the US all the time?  Why not Germany or Russia or China or India? 

I have a question for you Europeans that make idiotic statements like "you haven't lived in the real world until you live outside the US"....what has your country done to stop NK or Iran?  I imagine about a million percent less than the US has.  Instead of pointing fingers at the soft target (the US), point your finger at your own leaders and ask yourself why they haven't done anything to make the world safer. 

Oh and BTW, if the US chose to handle NK militarily with no nation building like in Iraq, it would take all of 2 weeks to end that regime and destroy all its weapons and capabilities.  We wouldn't have to put more than 40,000 troops on the group to get it done.  Unfortunately that action would put our allies in Japan and S. Korea in great peril.  You US bashers need to look big picture and realize the US isn't to blame for all the problems in the world....religion is.

Wow quite simply the most intelligent post i have read in a long time.

[Bud Fox]

 point your finger at your own leaders and ask yourself why they haven't done anything to make the world safer. 

Stooge.

The NIE says otherwise. Iraq has made us less safe thanks to an unstable sociopath as our leader.

Oh and BTW, if the US chose to handle NK militarily with no nation building like in Iraq,

"Nation building" = Another attempt to paint lipstick on the lips of the Iraq pig?

What is really going on in Iraq (which, if you remove your head from your anal canal you may see) is that the militias are at civil war. Democracy is simply not a solution for the problems in Iraq - Iraq is a failed state, a made-up state invented by people who do not even live there. It is three separate countries, mortal enemies for centuries, who simply will not live together in a democracy. When are you diehards going to wake up to that? We are creating a Shiite state that will just go to war with the Sunnis and the Kurds. We could create a Sunni state, and it will go to war with the Shiites and the Kurds. We could create a Kurdish dominated state, and it would go to war with the Sunnis and the Shiites. When are you people going to wake up to this?

[HamsterDemocracy]

Apocalypse is on its way. We will all soon be charred ashes. 

Pleasant thought. 

[Brody]

 point your finger at your own leaders and ask yourself why they haven't done anything to make the world safer. 

Stooge.

The NIE says otherwise. Iraq has made us less safe thanks to an unstable sociopath as our leader.

hmm why dont you talk about what else the report had in er? stooge?

[Bud Fox]

Wednesday, 3 April, 2002, 12:06 GMT 13:06 UK
US grants N Korea nuclear funds

The US Government has announced that it will release $95m to North Korea as part of an agreement to replace the Stalinist country's own nuclear programme, which the US suspected was being misused.
Under the 1994 Agreed Framework an international consortium is building two proliferation-proof nuclear reactors and providing fuel oil for North Korea while the reactors are being built.

In releasing the funding, President George W Bush waived the Framework's requirement that North Korea allow inspectors to ensure it has not hidden away any weapons-grade plutonium from the original reactors.

President Bush argued that the decision was "vital to the national security interests of the United States".

More: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1908571.stm


Now why would the son of the man who holds massive stock in the Carlisle Group weapons manufacturing conglomerate want to insure North Korea got a nuke? And Iran too? I mean, can all this stupidity that seems to be insuring all these outcomes turn out to not be stupidity at all, and instead a way to keep the money flowing to the war pigs despite the end of the Cold War? Now, if one were to believe that, next thing you know he'd think Bin Laden was being allowed to roam free on purpose, wouldn't he? And then next thing you know, he'd be thinking about how the Bin Laden family sits on the Carlisle Group board, wouldn't they? That has got to be the biggest coincidence in history, the Bushes and the Bin Ladens being tight, why one of the Bin Laden's loaned George money for an oil venture way back when. Just think, it would be like Frank Roosevelt's dad sitting on the board of the Springfield Armaments Company with General Tojo, and FDR Jr. getting a check from Tojo's nephew. Amazing how so few people talk about all that, isn't it?

[Bud Fox]

hmm why dont you talk about what else the report had in er? stooge?

Why don't you tell Bud Fox.

Or are you going to give us the Alzheimer's drool routine, lockstep with the other dolts, and keep talking about Clinton?