Slash, Duff Sue Axl Over Guns N' Roses Publishing Royalties

[DeN]

kinda ironic, when we want guns n'roses news, it's always bad ones who appears.

and still no official guns n'roses website to have the comments of Axl himself...

[nesquick]

and still no official guns n'roses website

the lack of website is really a desapointement for me. plus the actual frontpage is really ugly. I hope it will change when the record is out.
They should hire a web-designer, or maybe robin can do it, his website is quite artistic and esthetic.

[killingvector]

if slash and duff did sign over theyr right in 92, and were under the influence of drugs then that is not a valid contract

a valid contract MUST include the following

1. an offer
2. acceptance
3. consideration
4. intention to create legal relations
5. CAPACITY TO CONTRACT
6. genuine consent to all terms by the parties to the contract
7. contract must be legal and capable of performance


f a person is insane or intoxicated when entering into a contract the contract is viodable if it can be shown:

1 - the person at the time was incapable of understanding the nature of the contract
2 - the other person knew or ought to have known of this disability


another thing to note is:

it is presumed by law that parties enter into a contract voluntarily and WITHOUT DURESS AND INDUE INFLUENCE. if present the contract is void

they are some of the rules in Irish law for a valid contract, which to me shows that when S and D signed over the rights to axl the contract was not legal

With all due respect, you have no proof that S&D signed away those rights while impaired or under duress. Since their lawyers have been all over the contracts looking for a way to get some of their rights back, it would be reasonable to assume that the obviousness of your argument was considered and ruled out as an avenue of litigation.

[Shoco]

yeah i know, i was just making the point to everyone that refers to them as junkies, but its 13 years ago since they signed so maybe nothing can be done about it now anyway

[killingvector]

yeah i know, i was just making the point to everyone that refers to them as junkies, but its 13 years ago since they signed so maybe nothing can be done about it now anyway

It is not a question of time either; the statute of limitations had not run out since S&D were looking at this contract more than five years  ago. The most likely scenario is that S&D simply made a bad decision and are living with the consequences right now.

[Shoco]

ah well, unfortunatley looks that way forwhat ever reason they signed away

[marknroses]

Here is my three cents. Axl is not an idiot either. You really think he would? be that dumb to screw slash and duff out of royaltiest? Like I said wait until you hear Axls side (something I know you never like doing).? Also, like I said? before, this whole case and that renewal of the copyright PROVES that axl still is in the partnership. So what do you have to say about that? They renewed it in 2003 so they were not high or drunk in those years so they have no leg to stand on in that case now do they?

 Also, that company kobalt have lawyers and would not be dumb to cover all the bases and try and screw slash and duff out of their royalties so they can only get sued.

Its really sad that? you have no clue. Also I am sure you would love for guns n roses to sell out, and use WTTJ or PC is some stupid snapple or car commercial.? I think that is so lame when bands do that.? I am glad you want slash and duff to sell out the guns n roses name something they quit so long ago.

The thing is, this new case could pretty much wipe out the case in Nov since this case proves Axl is still in the partnership.
Slash and Duff cannot please incompetence this time since they renewed the partnership pretty much in 2003 for the back catalog.

I actually support the selling out the of GNR name.
I would love to see that, for the sake of GNR and their place in history.
Because had GNR never sold out their version of KOHD to MTV's Celebrity Deathmatch in 1998, I would still not be a GNR fan. I also thought that WTTJ sounded really hot playing as the anthem for the Grand Theft Auto game. In my opinion, AFD still has a chance to crack the top 100 on Billboards albums charts if it is marketed correctly. Im sure that many of the fans on these boards discovered GNR the same way that I did. I know what the songs mean to me, what they mean to GNR fans, but it would be nice if they could be shared all over, even if in the context of "Snapple". I find it selfish of you to want to keep GNR contained to a small group of hard core fans on HTGTH. There are plenty of people out there who would fall for this stuff.

And for you to play Devil's Advocate, to pretend that you know Axl as well as Duff & Slash do, is an insult to the GNR name. And yes, I DO READ WAT AXL SAYS, but what he says and what he does are two different stories. You talk about Slash Double Talkin', it was Axl who in 1990 talked about cutting a solo project with other players, but who by 1996 all of a sudden thought he was GNR and kicked out the very guys who brought him the great music that now we lack because they could no longer share in his visions. I also never said that Axl was dumb, I think he's a genius, but how he has used his genious since GNR has been damaging to fans and former bandmates.

& how anybody could prove that this delays CD for me, is beyond repair in the brain. Because there's no indication that the record is coming out, and now people think this delays an album

FINALLY, I don't know shit about these royalties, publishing rights, but I do know that Slash & Duff know about this stuff, they know and there's a really really good chance that Axl just did something very shadybecause they've dealt with him and seen him deal with others before . At the least, Axl would care enough about his former bandmates to get their money to them, he didn;t even care. He pointed no wrongs in the deal, time has elapsed, and let the lawsuit begin.

Oh yeah, keep waiting on CD.
MNR

[killingvector]

Here is my three cents. Axl is not an idiot either. You really think he would  be that dumb to screw slash and duff out of royaltiest? Like I said wait until you hear Axls side (something I know you never like doing).  Also, like I said  before, this whole case and that renewal of the copyright PROVES that axl still is in the partnership. So what do you have to say about that? They renewed it in 2003 so they were not high or drunk in those years so they have no leg to stand on in that case now do they?

 Also, that company kobalt have lawyers and would not be dumb to cover all the bases and try and screw slash and duff out of their royalties so they can only get sued.

Its really sad that  you have no clue. Also I am sure you would love for guns n roses to sell out, and use WTTJ or PC is some stupid snapple or car commercial.  I think that is so lame when bands do that.  I am glad you want slash and duff to sell out the guns n roses name something they quit so long ago.

The thing is, this new case could pretty much wipe out the case in Nov since this case proves Axl is still in the partnership.
Slash and Duff cannot please incompetence this time since they renewed the partnership pretty much in 2003 for the back catalog.

FINALLY, I don't know shit about these royalties, publishing rights, but I do know that Slash & Duff know about this stuff, they know and there's a really really good chance that Axl just did something very shadybecause they've dealt with him and seen him deal with others before . At the least, Axl would care enough about his former bandmates to get their money to them, he didn;t even care. He pointed no wrongs in the deal, time has elapsed, and let the lawsuit begin.

Oh yeah, keep waiting on CD.
MNR

LOL, I'm sure Axl and his lawyers have done their research too and protected themselves from any action that could be misconstrued as fraud. Kobalt, a very respected royalty collection agency, would no doubt review every contract and ensure that it was not a fraudulent deal.

You seem to give S&D the benefit of ALOT of doubt, which is a shame because no one here has heard the facts from both sides. Only S&D's brief has been made public. It is a mistake to assume in this case, especially when the other side have not aired their dirty laundry in public as S&D have.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Here is my three cents. Axl is not an idiot either. You really think he would? be that dumb to screw slash and duff out of royaltiest? Like I said wait until you hear Axls side (something I know you never like doing).? Also, like I said? before, this whole case and that renewal of the copyright PROVES that axl still is in the partnership. So what do you have to say about that? They renewed it in 2003 so they were not high or drunk in those years so they have no leg to stand on in that case now do they?

 Also, that company kobalt have lawyers and would not be dumb to cover all the bases and try and screw slash and duff out of their royalties so they can only get sued.

Its really sad that? you have no clue. Also I am sure you would love for guns n roses to sell out, and use WTTJ or PC is some stupid snapple or car commercial.? I think that is so lame when bands do that.? I am glad you want slash and duff to sell out the guns n roses name something they quit so long ago.

The thing is, this new case could pretty much wipe out the case in Nov since this case proves Axl is still in the partnership.
Slash and Duff cannot please incompetence this time since they renewed the partnership pretty much in 2003 for the back catalog.

I actually support the selling out the of GNR name.
I would love to see that, for the sake of GNR and their place in history.
Because had GNR never sold out their version of KOHD to MTV's Celebrity Deathmatch in 1998, I would still not be a GNR fan. I also thought that WTTJ sounded really hot playing as the anthem for the Grand Theft Auto game. In my opinion, AFD still has a chance to crack the top 100 on Billboards albums charts if it is marketed correctly. Im sure that many of the fans on these boards discovered GNR the same way that I did. I know what the songs mean to me, what they mean to GNR fans, but it would be nice if they could be shared all over, even if in the context of "Snapple". I find it selfish of you to want to keep GNR contained to a small group of hard core fans on HTGTH. There are plenty of people out there who would fall for this stuff.

And for you to play Devil's Advocate, to pretend that you know Axl as well as Duff & Slash do, is an insult to the GNR name. And yes, I DO READ WAT AXL SAYS, but what he says and what he does are two different stories. You talk about Slash Double Talkin', it was Axl who in 1990 talked about cutting a solo project with other players, but who by 1996 all of a sudden thought he was GNR and kicked out the very guys who brought him the great music that now we lack because they could no longer share in his visions. I also never said that Axl was dumb, I think he's a genius, but how he has used his genious since GNR has been damaging to fans and former bandmates.

& how anybody could prove that this delays CD for me, is beyond repair in the brain. Because there's no indication that the record is coming out, and now people think this delays an album

FINALLY, I don't know shit about these royalties, publishing rights, but I do know that Slash & Duff know about this stuff, they know and there's a really really good chance that Axl just did something very shadybecause they've dealt with him and seen him deal with others before . At the least, Axl would care enough about his former bandmates to get their money to them, he didn;t even care. He pointed no wrongs in the deal, time has elapsed, and let the lawsuit begin.

Oh yeah, keep waiting on CD.
MNR

Mark I just laugh at people like you. You must really be a sad person to keep coming to this board if you don't care about CD. You keep talking trash to the people that are waiting for CD. See the people that are waiting are the TRUE fans not people like you who bash and bash.  Everyone can see you hate for Axl and that is fine, but don't be so blatant about it. At least wait until the FULL story comes out. I know in your mind you cannot do that and just take slash and duffs side no matter what.


I still don?t understand why you would want the gnr name to be whored out, that is pathetic. Its one thing to use it wisely but its to let every tom, dick and Harry use any gnr song they want for anything. Like I really want to hear a gnr song in some stupid commercial, but that?s the difference between slash and duff and Axl. Axl wants to use the song when it warrants it; slash and duff still want to use the name guns n roses just to make money. You should talk to some Stones or Zeppelin hard-core fans; they hate the fact that their songs are used for stupid car commercials and other commercials. 

The fact is Axl is the only one that truly cares about the guns n roses name and legacy.  If slash, izzy and duff did they never would have walked away. 

You call yourself a fan and still don?t know gnr history. I love how you claim Axl kicked out slash, duff, and izzy when that is far from the truth. They QUIT, what is that so hard for you to understand?

As for how this could delay CD. Again you really don?t know your gnr history, and it shows. Look at any court case that Axl has gone through esp with the old band. Slash and Duff always said what ever Axl/gnr has a court case Axl always puts that first and puts everything else on the back burner. So slash and duff know by suing Axl (the first case) that it will preoccupy Axl and it will push CD off. You call yourself a fan and didn?t even know that. It just shows how you are just a causal fan, thus is why you would love for slash and duff to whore out the gnr name, a band they are not even in anymore.

That would be like Dave Mistane suing metallica and wanting to use metallica songs and whore out their songs.


Again as for this money issue. Like I said, Kobalt deals with the money, that is their job, you really think they would open theirselves up to a lawsuit? Instead of doing your favorite past time and blame Axl for everything and bash him why don?t you wait until the full story comes out?

[michaelvincent]

I'm sure the only reason for this lawsuit is to keep CD off the shelves.?

Axl Rose can do a far better job of screwing Axl Rose and the alleged release of Chinese Democracy than Slash, Duff, and a lawsuit over publishing royalities ever could.

The fact of the matter is they have stopped receiving due royalties on albums that they helped write/perform. I love how the Anti-Slash/Duff crowd is quick to shout about how they need to stop living in the past. If that were the case then as soon as the old band ended they should have taken every album, Appetite through TSI, off the shelves and taken them out of print.

PS: I beleive that Axl has a rerecording of Appetite with the new group allegedly stashed away somewhere, allowed a bogus version of SCOM to play during the credits of Big Daddy, toured the new band playing nothing but old material.? All the while we have no new Guns album. Yep, Slash and Duff...those assholes just can't let go of the past.?

[michaelvincent]

I'm sure the only reason for this lawsuit is to keep CD off the shelves.?

Axl Rose can do a far better job of screwing Axl Rose and the alleged release of Chinese Democracy than Slash, Duff, and a lawsuit over publishing royalities ever could.

The fact of the matter is they have stopped receiving due royalties on albums that they helped write/perform. I love how the Anti-Slash/Duff crowd is quick to shout about how they need to stop living in the past. If that were the case then as soon as the old band ended they should have taken every album, Appetite through TSI, off the shelves and taken them out of print.

PS: I beleive that Axl has a rerecording of Appetite with the new group allegedly stashed away somewhere, allowed a bogus version of SCOM to play during the credits of Big Daddy, toured the new band playing mostly old material.? All the while we have no new Guns album. Yep, Slash and Duff...those assholes just can't let go of the past.?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I'm sure the only reason for this lawsuit is to keep CD off the shelves.?

Axl Rose can do a far better job of screwing Axl Rose and the alleged release of Chinese Democracy than Slash, Duff, and a lawsuit over publishing royalities ever could.

The fact of the matter is they have stopped receiving due royalties on albums that they helped write/perform. I love how the Anti-Slash/Duff crowd is quick to shout about how they need to stop living in the past. If that were the case then as soon as the old band ended they should have taken every album, Appetite through TSI, off the shelves and taken them out of print.

PS: I beleive that Axl has a rerecording of Appetite with the new group allegedly stashed away somewhere, allowed a bogus version of SCOM to play during the credits of Big Daddy, toured the new band playing nothing but old material.? All the while we have no new Guns album. Yep, Slash and Duff...those assholes just can't let go of the past.?

Really its funny the first trial was going to be in april or so, but slash and duff asked for it to  be pushed back to Nov.  We all know that trial is a farse since its stupid to claim that Axl is not in the partnership esp since they with Axl tried to stop the GHs album, and also renewed their contract in 2003 for the old songs being used in movies.

Like I said  before until this full story comes out about the checks, there is really no point it talking about it. Like I said it could have been a clarical error.  If Axl did try to pull a fast when then he deserves to be sued, but we have not heard his side yet, so lets wait for that before you guys try and tar and feather him.

I won't even go into the big daddy thing and touring under the name gnr again since this thread is not about that. WE dont want this thread turing into this is not gnr thread.

[Falcon]

I'm sure the only reason for this lawsuit is to keep CD off the shelves.?

Sarcasm noted, and agreed with.

We'll just have to add the "lawsuits as an evil ploy by the ex members to keep Axl from releasing CD"
to the rest of the goofy conspiracy theories that have been manifested over the years.

A safe bet would say the former members are at least as anxious to hear if Axl can deliver as the rest of us are..

[AxlGunner]

slash and duff stopped getting their royalties for the back catalogue. even if it was a clerical error, they have the right to sue if they want to. they are owed money. it does appear, on the surface, that this was not a simple clerical error, especially if the money was dumped into axl rose's company. they may not win, but don't bash them for suing. if there wasn't any evidence whatsoever, the case will get dismissed quickly.

[killingvector]

slash and duff stopped getting their royalties for the back catalogue. even if it was a clerical error, they have the right to sue if they want to. they are owed money. it does appear, on the surface, that this was not a simple clerical error, especially if the money was dumped into axl rose's company. they may not win, but don't bash them for suing. if there wasn't any evidence whatsoever, the case will get dismissed quickly.

If the money was dumped in axl's account......big IF........


No one knows the merits to any of these accusations.

[madagas]

Falcon, I wouldn't be so sure about that! It's a war now. Anyhow, I just read the first complaint and s/d are also challenging Axl's authority to conduct business under "the ongoing " relationship with Geffen Records. In other words, as I have said before, unless Axl has a new recording contract for the new Gnr, then he cannot fulfill any of the original obligations of the original recording contract with Geffen without s/d involvement (if he is deemed to have left the partnership). Thus, in a way, they are or could be making the release of Chinese alot more difficult. Axl is really in a complete mess. Killingvector is right though. No one has seen Axl's answers to ANY of the allegations so we are really only getting one side of the story.?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

slash and duff stopped getting their royalties for the back catalogue. even if it was a clerical error, they have the right to sue if they want to. they are owed money. it does appear, on the surface, that this was not a simple clerical error, especially if the money was dumped into axl rose's company. they may not win, but don't bash them for suing. if there wasn't any evidence whatsoever, the case will get dismissed quickly.

Like I said and something some of you keep ignoring, I am not talking about this lawsuit. I am talking about the first lawsuit claiming axl is not in the partnership anymore, that lawsuit is a farse. 

[madagas]

Dave, I wouldn't be so sure about that first lawsuit. Axl clearly gave them a document saying he was leaving the partnership as of 12-31-1995. If he did, then he would be considered a terminated partner and banned from making decisions on the back catalog. The case could go either way depending on the wording of his notice. It certainly isn't a farce.

[Falcon]

Falcon, I wouldn't be so sure about that! It's a war now. Anyhow, I just read the first complaint and s/d are also challenging Axl's authority to conduct business under "the ongoing " relationship with Geffen Records. In other words, as I have said before, unless Axl has a new recording contract for the new Gnr, then he cannot fulfill any of the original obligations of the original recording contract with Geffen without s/d involvement (if he is deemed to have left the partnership). Thus, in a way, they are or could be making the release of Chinese alot more difficult. Axl is really in a complete mess. Killingvector is right though. No one has seen Axl's answers to ANY of the allegations so we are really only getting one side of the story.?

As I said in a prior post, I will withhold any judgement until I hear the other side of the story.  However, I do recognize this could hold up a potential release but in no means do I thnk holding up a release is the goal of Slash/Duff and the subsequent lawsuit(s).

[madagas]

This whole thing is one big cluster fuck. I'm going on vacation until we actually have music to talk about. Hold down the fort and see ya next year sometime (or maybe the next)!