A question with no answer

[nesquick]

Hi everybody I have a quite important question about "the blues" madagascar" and "chinese democracy".
- in 2002, Axl said these 3 songs weren't the best ones and won't be released as singles because he though they were not the best ones of the album.
- HOWEVER, if they are not the best ones, Why did the new band always play them during their Live shows?
In general When you decide to play systematicly some new material at every concert, well it is because you think they are the best songs don't you think? It would be pretty normal to play the songs you consider as the best ones.

 I really don't know who believe and what I should think about that.
If "the blues" "madagascar" and "chinese democracy" are really the 3 best songs of the album, I would be a litle bit desapointed because even if they are great, I know Axl can do even better! (November Rain, estranged etc...)
If they are just "B type songs"? well it would be awesome because it means that there will be even better songs on the album.
I just want you to tell me what do you think about that. Why the hell always play the same 3 new songs if you consider they are not the best of the album? Why would you take the risk to play only songs that you don't consider yourself as the best ones??  
I have never had a clear answer on that point.

[Skeba]

If I remember correctly, it had something to do with people bootlegging the shows, and not wanting the best songs to be out there for people to download. I might be horribly wrong though.

[DemocracyRose]

If I remember correctly, it had something to do with people bootlegging the shows, and not wanting the best songs to be out there for people to download. I might be horribly wrong though.

Sounds fair to me...

[Dave_Rose]

I think I remember Axl saying that he was holding his big guns back until the album is finally out

[starchild_666]

I think Axl is first ever to play 3 B-sides every night live  

[Will]

I may be wrong, but I believe it's because of their initial plan. The plan was to begin the tour in the US in fall '02 (which they did), until early '03 (which never happened), and then tour all over the world in 2003 (Indonesia, Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Europe, etc.), before finishing the tour in the US sometime after in 2003/2004, with a possible album release in the same time frame. Obviously the plan didn't go as they thought it would.

I believe they played only those 3 new songs (+ the occasional Rhiad) as a "warm-up" before the rest of the tour (which never took place). Axl said himself the setlists would evolve in the future (meaning after the US part of the tour). Notice how they never played Oh My God or Silkworms after 12.31.2001. They would have probably included new songs in the setlist, if the tour had gone on. Unfortunately we only saw the first part of the plan...
Axl said several times the tour would last 2-3 years, which was perfect for an evolution of the concerts and setlists. Maybe it's gonna happen next time? That's my explanation but I may be wrong.

[nesquick]

remember the VMA 2002: the band chose to play "Madagascar", don't you think it was a strong clue? Why playing this particular song to show to the whole world your new material, if you don't consider it as one of the best song? That's not very logical  
Madagascar is a great song, but I just hope this is not "THE" best song of the album. I just hope we will see something  even better, I know Axl can do it, especially in 10 years,  he has got enought time to write even better songs I'm sure. I just don't want to think we already heard the best ones... that's what I hope.

[Timothy]

Playing songs that are your big guns wouldn't make since considering that the album was no were near coming out . they would have benn download in no time. I would think that that would include the vmas.

[younggunner]

They havnt played the big guns yet because the album wasnt coming out anytime soon. Why play stuff that is gonna either make or break you when your not ready to release ytour highly anticipated album. MAkes plenty of sense to me.

Whether you think this band is capable of delivering a great song/s is your opinion. But you cant take away the fact that they still have a shitload of material that they feel 100% attatched too and confident in and think that is great. Time will tell.....

As for the VMAs. Again they were used to playing a handful of new songs live at the time. Plus look at the format. They were closing the hsow...therefore they played a 3 song melody. Open with wttj and close with pc. NOw they had to decide what song they were currently playing would fit the melody.

Obiviously it was between CD, MAddy and the Blues.

Cd would have been a good selection but it wqas a rocker that blended in with wttj and PC. MAddy was a perfect song to put in between and slow down the place. Plus they could cut the song to the 1st 2 verses withought playing the quotes. The blues you would have to play the whole song.

Relax. The songs we have heard...particularly CD, the blues, and maddy are the role players on the album. They are the songs that help make an album great. They might not be instant classic but they are great songs that people can appreciate when they are just the appetizers to a bunch of great songs. Whther you think the band is capable of delivering osme great songs is a whole different story.

[nesquick]

About "the blues", I do think that a very well done studio version could become a classic. But once again with a faster tempo and not too much synthe. I LOVE that song. It's just the kind of song that you can listen to all your life. It's called a classic indeed.

[NickNasty]

Not to sidetrack this thread, but its funny how everybody has to go back to Axl's 'original plan' in 2002 to make arguments about tracks on the album, the number of albums, etc. Understandable, given that he hasn't said anything since then (except to pull out of RIR), but we really can't be sure of anything now. Everyone always says Axl has 3 albums worth of material set up, but given BH's departure, do you really think he will keep ALL of BH's parts if the man is not returning to the band ( it seems like he's keeping them on CD, if only because to do them over would take another year)? Getting more on topic, I have a hard time believing the song Chinese Democracy won't be on the album of the same name, and given the [generally] positive reception the Blues and Madagascar recieved, I think leaving them off would be a mistake. Time will tell. For all we know the tracklisting may have changed 100 times since Dec. 02.

[Voodoochild]

Why they played only CD, The Blues, Maddy and Rhiad? Because they wanna keep the other songs - the good ones too - with the surprise when (if) CD will be released. Why play the better ones when the album is not out yet?
I believe this songs were played to made some kinda of transition between the old tunes and the new style.
All of them were made by 1999 (well, I dunno about Rhiad), before Bucket, Brain and Fortus. Don't you believe they made more songs when this band got togheter? They didn't want to played another new songs to brake the expectation and show all the "big guns" before the album is done.  

[Izzy]

Goddmnit not THIS topic again

Axl played CD, Mddy and the blues because they were the best songs he had - you don't return after ten years and play b-sides, even Axl isn't that odd

People don't want to accept this because of what that would mean for the album - but think about it logically.

All this crap about beating bootleggers etc - for gods sake snap out of it! The reason we still don't have the album is because the songs he played were the best he had - the response wasn't great and so he went back to work.

While some of your faith is admirable occaisionally realtity must intervene

and before u lay into me - i love the new songs, if they are the best he has it will still be one of my fav albums

[Voodoochild]

Goddmnit not THIS topic again

Axl played CD, Mddy and the blues because they were the best songs he had - you don't return after ten years and play b-sides, even Axl isn't that odd

People don't want to accept this because of what that would mean for the album - but think about it logically.

All this crap about beating bootleggers etc - for gods sake snap out of it! The reason we still don't have the album is because the songs he played were the best he had - the response wasn't great and so he went back to work.

While some of your faith is admirable occaisionally realtity must intervene

and before u lay into me - i love the new songs, if they are the best he has it will still be one of my fav albums

No, you're might be wrong. If Axl has putting all this effort to hide the whole album from the public, why would he play the better ones? Why not play other songs? Why the hell he don't want to use any of those songs as singles? He could do that...
I guess the response of Rhiad (wich I love), Silkworms and OMG wasn't great, but The Blues, Maddie and CD were very pleased. That's why they wanted to play only those songs (despite Rhiad in Detroit) in the NA Tour.
It's not about hope or faith. I just see this thing clear in my mind. I wouldn't play my best songs before the release of my highly anticipated album to over the hype.

[Will]

Not to sidetrack this thread, but its funny how everybody has to go back to Axl's 'original plan' in 2002 to make arguments about tracks on the album, the number of albums, etc.

I talked about the "plan" because I thought it was relevant to the thread (besides the fact that they were playing only those tracks because no album was out yet). I didn't mention the number of albums or anything though. I always believed there will be one album and for the rest we shall see...

Getting more on topic, I have a hard time believing the song Chinese Democracy won't be on the album of the same name, and given the [generally] positive reception the Blues and Madagascar recieved, I think leaving them off would be a mistake.

Axl never said those tracks won't be on the album though. He only said they won't be released as singles.

Izzy, you can't state for a fact why the band only played those tracks, we can only guess. I don't believe those were their best songs but that's just a guess. Even if they are, I liked them a lot so that's no big deal.

[HoldenCaulfield]

It wouldn't make sense to play the best songs live before the album comes out. When the album came out, the songs wouldn't be a surprise, and even though they would still be great, people would say "So what? I heard that 5 years ago.".

[Flyguy_1ca]

I'm afraid I think Izzy is spot on

[bill213]

Yeah I've always thought the same way Izzy just said about the new songs.  I honestly don't think Axl liked the response he got from the new songs and decided to tweak them more and possibly work on newer better songs.  People dont' seem to respond too much to the song so Axl says, Hey these are just holdovers for the breathtakers.  I know on a lot of the bootlegs from the 02 tour they new songs were played to a mediocre response, especially in the smaller cities they played in.  But yeah they still rock ass though.

[Lord Kayoss]

All this crap about beating bootleggers etc - for gods sake snap out of it! The reason we still don't have the album is because the songs he played were the best he had - the response wasn't great and so he went back to work.

Axl and the crew could have the absolute best and most brillant song in the world in the Chinese Democracy vault and could play it live a hundred times and never get a great response from a live crowd because no one has the CD at home to listen to the song over and over to get hyped to hear in concert.  The song is not on the radio a dozen times a day nor all over MTV.  People don't POP for the new stuff live because they are not familiar with it.  When the album comes out and people can really hear the new songs and get acquainted with them the big responses will come at the shows.  Axl shouldn't base any song's credibility from a first time listen by a live audience.  It just doesn't work that way and never has.  First should come the album, then the concerts.

[younggunner]

All this crap about beating bootleggers etc - for gods sake snap out of it! The reason we still don't have the album is because the songs he played were the best he had - the response wasn't great and so he went back to work.

Whether you think they are capable of creating a classic song or not, there is material in those vaults that Axl and the band are attatched too and feel 100% confident in.
Just because they didnt reveal that material on the last tour doesnt mean jack shit. They werent going to play material that they are banking on until they are ready to go ahead with it properly. BUt if you wanna think otherwise, by all means......