Philosophy question of the month-July

[RichardNixon]

What is, and where is the Conscious? Is it part of the brain, and just a collection of neurons being fired off? Is it part of the soul, separate from the body? Or Both?

Bonus question, courtesy of Sakib

Is infinity real? Think about it, you drop a pencil, lets say a metre from the ground, that distance will half "infinitely" so you get 0.5m, 0.25m, 0.125 etc. but eventually the pencil is 0m from the ground. But now you double 0 and you get 0. So that means you cant divide a number by 2 and get 0 apart from 0 itself. So it must have gone past the point of infinity at some point. What do you think?
   

[Danny Top Hat]

1)  Brain.

2)  Digits are infinate because you can literally just keep going (9, 99, 999, 9999, 99999, 999999, etc...).  Other than that, I don't believe in infinity.  Your example definately isn't infinite because the pencil doesn't just keep falling and falling forever - very soon it has to stop.

[estranged.1098]

If you're speaking of mathematical infinity - it's not something to believe in, it's simply a definition that helps us solve a lot of problems. There's a mathematician that created a theory without infinity, which is completely useless.

The pencil question seems very simple. Once the pencil stops changing its position relative to the ground it's no longer moving (by definition of motion).

[Skeba]

I'd say that the Conscious is in the brain. Whether there are some parts that are still not discovered, I'm not sure of. I believe there is/are. Or let's just say I like the idea of there being something of that sort. And I'm talking about some whole new way of looking at the activities in brain, not only getting new information on for example "what part of our brains do we utilize when thinking of ourselves".

On the second question. It's actually pretty tricky. Because while our world is believed to be finite, it is not discrete. Even in your pencil example the distance can be divided into an infinite number of discrete distances ( -> continuous ). And as everyone knows (and it's been pointed out here as well), infinite is there for the convenience of solving mathematical problems. But. When we measure things, infinite is an accuracy that'll never be achieved. Still doesn't mean that it doesn't exist in the way I described it.

[Sakib]

I'd say the conscience is a natural thing created by God himself which we can't quite explain. As the infinite thing was my question, there's always an end somewhere in this life.

[SkinnyPuppy]

I'd say the conscience is a natural thing created by God himself which we can't quite explain. As the infinite thing was my question, there's always an end somewhere in this life.

Best answer so far.... 

as far as infinity goes...its only testament to the fact that mathematics has has inconsistensies that just do not work with real life situations

[Sakib]

I'd say the conscience is a natural thing created by God himself which we can't quite explain. As the infinite thing was my question, there's always an end somewhere in this life.

Best answer so far....?

as far as infinity goes...its only testament to the fact that mathematics has has inconsistensies that just do not work with real life situations

such as imaginery numbers (aka square root of -1 or famously known i)

thats 1 inconsisties

[Skeba]

I like to think that conscience is a god created thing, but wouldn't be surprised if it was all explained one day with science. Even then there'd be enough undiscovered stuff for me to play with the thought of an actual god existing.

And how is infinity inconsistent with real life if it is used as a way to describe precision as I mentioned?

And with imaginary numbers. How is it inconsistent with real life if it can be used in mathematical situations to describe real life phenomena such as the fourier transform which is used in everyday life all the time.

[estranged.1098]

I'd say the conscience is a natural thing created by God himself which we can't quite explain. As the infinite thing was my question, there's always an end somewhere in this life.

What about people that do all those horrible things I won't bother to list here? Did God forget to "add conscious" when he created them?

[Markus Asraelius]

I'd say the conscience is a natural thing created by God himself which we can't quite explain. As the infinite thing was my question, there's always an end somewhere in this life.

What about people that do all those horrible things I won't bother to list here? Did God forget to "add conscious" when he created them?

People that do those horrible things have a choice. God gave us a choice to believe in him or not. To believe in good or evil.

[Walk]

http://www.blizzard.com/press/040401.shtml 

[estranged.1098]

I'd say the conscience is a natural thing created by God himself which we can't quite explain. As the infinite thing was my question, there's always an end somewhere in this life.

What about people that do all those horrible things I won't bother to list here? Did God forget to "add conscious" when he created them?

People that do those horrible things have a choice. God gave us a choice to believe in him or not. To believe in good or evil.

But if you're a conscious person you can't choose to act like that. You can only pick that choice if you don't have conscience.

[Markus Asraelius]

I'd say the conscience is a natural thing created by God himself which we can't quite explain. As the infinite thing was my question, there's always an end somewhere in this life.

What about people that do all those horrible things I won't bother to list here? Did God forget to "add conscious" when he created them?

People that do those horrible things have a choice. God gave us a choice to believe in him or not. To believe in good or evil.

But if you're a conscious person you can't choose to act like that. You can only pick that choice if you don't have conscience.

Well then, I guess the concious is a mystery to me then. 

And probably other people as well.

[Axl4Prez2004]

? Now the infinity question.? Of course infinity exists.? That pencil you used in your example never hits the ground.? By rudimentary measuring tools it may appear to, but it does not.? Any forray into the world of quantum physics will clear that up for you in a jiffy!!!? Matter we see looks stationary when it's at rest in our eyes.? At a molecular and sub-molecular level, where exactly are you measuring the distance between the pencil and the surface of the ground?? Why is that important?? Because those surfaces are always moving and changing.? I can get deeper, but damn, half the folks who started to read this post already stopped, and said, "F$ck that!"? ?

I don't understand.? Of course the pencil hits the ground!? One minute it's falling and the next it stops.? It is not falling for infinity because it hits the ground and stays there.


Edit - shit dude, I didn't mean to take over your post!? Fuck, I seem to have deleted half of it.? I can't put things back to normal!? Damn, I should go visit that thread for pissed people again.  Sorry about that dude!

[Jim]

Modify instead of quote? I've done that a few times. I tend to just keep it quiet though........

[Danny Top Hat]

Not slap it in bold for all to see?? Damn, maybe that makes a whole lot more sense.? I was pretty wasted last night..

[Axl4Prez2004]

Oh my god...I can't believe that you deleted my post!     I spent 15 or 20 minutes on it and I was very proud of that.    I even stated in the first sentence that I respect your posts...I just disagree with you on this one. 

Ugh, I feel like I've been kicked in the balls. 

I hope this was inadvertent. 

For those who didn't get to see it, a quick summation included me questioning the phrasing of your latest post.  You stated we have the choice to believe in "Him" or not, and equated this with whether someone was good or evil.  I explained how this is biased by your immediate suroundings/beliefs because more than 40% of the world's people are either non-religious or polytheistic, which means they don't believe in your "Him," and obviously all of them are not evil.  Also, good and evil are subjective terms.  Good to one person can be evil to another.  Each and every one of us has their behaviors determined by a complex interplay of genetics and social/environmental influences.   

I have monotheistic, polytheistic, atheistic, and agnostic friends and acquaintances who all do good and evil things.  Religious belief is not a factor.  I phrased all of this alot better last night.  I was in the zone.  I feel like Mel Gibson in the movie Conspiracy Theory now.  Don't make me bite off your nose Markus!     All's cool.   

At least you didn't cut my infinity answer off.    Yes there's infinity.  Especially on the level of quantum physics.  That pencil doesn't hit the ground the way you think it does.  To our eyes it appears to "hit" the ground, but at the molecular level, trying to measure the distance from the pencil to the ground would be like trying to measure an object being tossed around on a turbulent ocean with a measuring stick that changes lengths constantly.     All matter is in motion.  Everything around us is fluid.  Time itself bends matter.  There's so much out there in the world of science that is not black and white, right or wrong.   Religion gives us easy answers to ease our troubled minds.   

Now, where did I say that conscience was?  Oh yeah, the latest evolutionary addition to our brains, the cerebral cortex that we have that sets us apart from the chimps.  Someone asked is our consience part of our brain or soul?  That assumes there is something called a "soul."  Of course it's part of the brain, and when we die it probably dies...but that doesn't mean I don't hope it lives in some sort of form we can't measure at this time! 
Now for the AxlroseVen conclusion, "Oh fuck!"        

 

[Sakib]

Why then would a pencil make a noise if it hits the ground (especially on a wooden surface).

The thing is there's one true religion out there somewhere and i know i've got it.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Why then would a pencil make a noise if it hits the ground (especially on a wooden surface).

The thing is there's one true religion out there somewhere and i know i've got it.

1st question...it has to do with the atmosphere we live in.  Throw that pencil down in space and there will be no sound.      Seriously, what I tried to explain is that the method of measurement (at micro-micro-microscopic levels) is that all matter is kinetic unless it's hypothetically at absolute zero. (which to my knowledge has been approached but never attained)  Therefore, what part of the pencil are you measuring from?  It, like all matter is always moving.

2nd statement...I find it unfortunate you are so quick to dismiss every other belief system as false.      Wait a minute...is this Stephen Baldwin???   

[Natasha23]

I'd say the conscience is a natural thing created by God himself which we can't quite explain. As the infinite thing was my question, there's always an end somewhere in this life.

What about people that do all those horrible things I won't bother to list here? Did God forget to "add conscious" when he created them?

I don't think we're born with or without a conscious.  I think it's something that has to develop and be nurtured, since it can be destroyed (or the potential of it can be destroyed) in children who suffer severe abuse, whether it be emotional or physical.  If you view a conscious as the ability to make connections with other people, the ability to empathize with the suffering of other people, than I don't think that is something that someone can be born with or without.  I'm sure there are plenty of sociopaths who weren't abused.  Another thing to consider is not everyone who does horrible, unspeakable things is without a conscious.  No matter what you do to someone, if you have remorse, I think you have a conscious (even though you're probably pretty twisted). 
Let's say you have two siblings who experience the same horrors -- one turns out to be a monster, the other is able to survive and keep their humanity in tact.  Maybe there's a genetic component, or some sort of biochemical factors in the brain that determines who might get their wires crossed.
Let's use Axl as an example.  People who go through that kind of abuse end up killers, psychos, child predators themselves.  I don't think Axl is any one of those things, because from some of his interviews he can come across as a pretty empathetic person, and compassionate in his own way.  Who can say why some survive with their humanity in tact and others do not.  I'm not sure...