Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I've been in the GN'R community for 13 years.

Most of that time, a large contingent of fans were like: "Reunion or bust." "If Axl wants to play the old songs, call Slash." etc. And now, that might be happening and those same people are like "Why do it? It'd just be a nostalgia fest!" "It isn't proper if it Fortus and Frank are involved". Like...Is Fortus/Frank any different, really, than Gilby/Sorum?

If Axl, Duff and Slash reunite, is it their fault that Steven's an unreliable drug addict and Izzy's a flake who can't be depended on? Should a reunion really shut down and go kaput cause two guys can't be relied on?

When Buckethead and Robin were in the band, they got immense hate from large portions of the fanbase...Now those same people who HATED them, now are like "I wish they were back"...The minute they walked out the door they suddenly liked them. Same with Bumblefoot. When CD was delayed, a loud contingent claimed CD "didn't exist" and that the 3-4 songs Axl was playing live were all he had...I remember this. Now, those same people are saying CD2 "doesn't exist" and that it's just song titles in Axl's head...Like, really?

There seems to be a portion of the GN'R fanbase that enjoys being disappointed - enjoys being able to complain about something. I mean all I heard for so long was reunion, reunion, reunion and now, maybe that's happening and they're poking holes in it.

When is enough enough? When can people just be satisfied? W

I am surprised on the level of pushback on this possible reunion.

Its still a very, very small fraction.  But I figured it would be near non-existent. 

I assumed if hell froze over and it happened, the only opposition would be a bunch of a took cool for the room contrarians saying things like AFD is overrated crap and CD was unadulterated brilliance.

What do you think is the reason for it?

I feel like the same people who are pushing back against this possible reunion, are the same exact people who will crucify Axl if it doesn't happen.

I mean, was "REUNION OR RETIRE" not the rallying cry of a large portion of the fanbase since around 2011? And now, when confronted with just what they asked for, they're finding flaw...It makes no sense to me. The people who love the UYI tour lineup somehow finding flaw with Fortus/Frank is also maddening.

I personally cringed at the sight and sound of GN?R when they re-emerged at the VMA?s.
Never really considered it to truly be GN?R, since it?s overhaul was so drastic, but that didn?t lessen my enthusiasm over the prospect of new Axl Rose material.

I thought Chinese Democracy had it?s moments, but it?s a CD I rarely revisit.
The music that Frank and Fortus contributed to didn?t do much for me, so yes, in that sense, it?s very different to the Sorum, and to a lesser extent, Gilby?s situation.

Granted Adler had a hand in the creation of the Illusion material, but Sorum added his stamp as well.
Gilby didn?t contibute to the creative process, but he was on Spaghetti Incident, which I love, and he was a part of the incredible UYI tour.
Dig his Wild Horses jam etc.

Robin?s playing was disappointing when I saw him live, though I did appreciate his energy.
I didn?t bat an eye when he left, and honestly, I don?t remember much love for him period, outside of a couple posters until after he left.

I don?t miss any of the many players that have left since Duff.

As for the potential hybrid reunion, I think it?s still exciting, especially in comparison to the past 20 years, but that?s a very low bar to me.
I always assumed if there was a reunion, and everyone was still breathing, that it would be a true reunion. That?s obviously on me.
Izzy was a huge reason I was a fan of the band in the first place. They fell apart when he left, so it?s a bit comical to me they?d ?reunite? without him. But obviously there was magic between Axl and Slash like we have seldom seen before, and certainly not since, so that in itself would be worth the price of admission. Just not quite the happy ending that life doesn?t owe me.

I :love: 'd it.

I have a theory and I'll tell you how it goes.

Some people got so pissed at Axl, they insisted on the original band only.  They were so disgusted with what he did, the only thing they would accept was the pure, uncut, 200 proof version of GNR - the 5 guys on AFD.  You started to see this with people all of the sudden saying things like GNR stopped being GNR after Adler left.  Or after Izzy left.

Nevermind the fact that not one of these people likely expressed this at the time.  The UYI albums selling like hotcakes and a wildly successful 28 month world tour to support it rather refute the premise people were not considering it GNR anymore.

And I think that took a hold of some folks.  So when they hear "reunion", they want those 5 guys and nothing but.

some people felt metallica sold out when they made a musicvideo, I think it was One.

I liked the sound of it, madagascar especially, but seing Axl out of breath felt? awkward. Also, Im not saying that looks are that important, but Buckethead and Robin's look at the time reminded me of bands I didnt like, so I was distrustful.

The experience was bitter-sweet.

Why would some people constantly whine?
Could be many reasons. It's their idea of fun. It's how they are etc etc.

Do you think they'd be happy if the AFD5 played a show and the setlist was similar to say 1988? "It's the same setlist that I saw on Youtube!".  :rofl:


Edited to add: This is only a mall fraction of all fans. That's why when somebody talks about fans as one group, it's a bit misleading. Yes, we all are supposed to like the same band, but even that it sometimes questionable when reading what this kind of fans post....


/jarmo

There's also a small portion of the fanbase that are Axl nutswingers. They always support Axl no matter what, when new players come they support them, but when they leave they throw stones at them. Those nutswingers are usually against a reunion before its confirmed, if it is confirmed, its Axl decision, so its ok.

This whole terminology is like we're back in school.
Just because somebody is loyal and/or supportive, doesn't make him/her a so called nutswinger. Or even ass kisser for that matter.

I've been called both, and more. Whatever label you wanna use, don't care. I just find it silly. :)



/jarmo

Yeah, its was a really weird mix of feelings, I agree.

The good : GNR was back and they were given the closing slot

The bad : Axl sounded horrendous and the overall look of the new band immediately turned people off

GN?R was obviously very successful without Adler and Izzy, but they haven?t put out an impactful album those two didn?t contribute to.
Sure the train kept rolling for a bit, and people looked the other way that integral members were slowly falling by the wayside.
But when it finally did go to shit, it was fairly easy to retrace their steps and see where things went wrong.

If Axl shits in a hat today, and stamps Guns N? Roses on it, people will bid on it.
But that is due to the impact GN'R made long ago. Success achieved through the chemistry and contributions of 5 bandmates, not named Frank or Richard.

With that crowd, never is heard a discouraging word when it comes to Axl.

If he told them one thing one day, and literally went 180 degrees a week later, you would likely find as strong support for the reversal as you did for the initial announcement just 7 years earlier.

Ive never said you where one of them. From what Ive seen, which is not that much, you seem to have respect for players that left.
I also think there's a difference between loyal/supporter and a nutswinger. It may be juvenile, but I say it because I think the word in itself is funny.

At this point I don't think the fanbase can be satisfied. Too much time has passed too much has been wasted. and I'm talking about the vast majority of fans which are of the classic GNR. The mainstream.

Correct.  This rumored reunion won't make everyone happy, because nothing ever does.

But its going to make a shitload more people happy than anything else he's done in the past 15 years.  On just the raw numbers, this will be a success.

I have a question, do you think it will please the mainstream mass to see a reunion, if there's no album?

Yes, I do. 

Because more people will attend shows all across the country than are clamoring for a new album.

I know. I'm just speaking as a person who's been called all kinds of names by people who think I give a fuck. :)

The ironic thing about the term is that when people use it as an attack, and you question whether or not they're really fans, they get upset...



/jarmo

I think it's kind of a tribute to how great GnR are! Their fan base is pretty huge and wide spread. They have different sounding songs, kinda like Queen in a sense, as oppose to AC/DC, so people like them for different reasons. I see it as a good thing!  : ok:

As for me, as long as Axl is singing, happy, healthy, and writing, I'm good. I've been a fan since I was 7 years old in '88 when I heard Sweet Child on MTV. Made my Dad take me to Sears that nite to buy me the album!. I'm as big of a fan now as I was back then. They have always been a constant in my life and their songs have helped me through many aspects of my life that I will forever be grateful for. I've seen them over the years since 2002 and never once have I felt robbed of my money. All have been awesome shows and I look forward to the next ones!

Maybe so, but he doesn't exactly do that though, does he?  I think can just about everyone can agree that he doesn't release music half-assedly, rather he's excruciatingly obsessive over the quality of music with the Guns label.  Of course, tastes vary and many won't like what he has to offer no matter how much he puts into it, but he's not, and I don't think ever will be, going the shit-in-a-hat route with his albums.  Maybe the only time that happened was with Spaghetti Incident, but that was still pretty good shit.

"Excruciatingly obsessive" comes across to me as the good spin on "terribly unmotivated".

I think its easier to believe he's consumed this crazy attention to detail than it is to have to consider he's just not all that bothered to get going.

Nope

No.  That's a different issue.  You can be obsessive about quality but still be inactive for extended periods (I don't know that he's inactive due to being unmotivated, but again, that's a different issue and one that doesn't really interest me).  And it's not exactly a leap of faith to believe he has an extraordinary dedication to maximizing the quality of his product, just about everyone who's ever worked with him has vouched for him in that respect.

people are against it, because its like watching your best friend hooking up with his ex girfriend, that broke his heart.
you know he's an idiot for doing it.

I never hated the new lineup in 2001, although I do want them back :peace:

I'll be honest, besides buckethead playing his own style, there isn't a noticeable difference between ashba, slash and even Finck

Honestly the online fan base, the people active on forums, are
a small percentage of the actual global fan base.

This needs to be taken into account to keep things in perspective.

I've been around on and off since GNRonline, but I don't lie to myself about the actual relevance of the online community.

That is a very true and profound statement. : ok: Some people treat bands like child stars. They want to keep them frozen in time.

I was happy to hear Axl sing  that night. I had all the Tvs turned on and the volume up. Then I was thinking WTF did Axl do to Guns N' Roses. You had one  goofball with a mask and a stupid KFC bucket on his  head. You had another person who was dressed in goth with half  his hair. It looked weird  and out of place. It definitely showed that Bucketed and Finck just didn't fit in the GNR mold.

I thought that Bumblefoot and DJ fit well. They with Tommy and Fortus sounded like a modern day sounding GNR, which kept to its roots.

I'll be  THRILLED when it is officially announced that Slash and Duff are back in the fold. This is what Guns N' Roses is and should be about. I would love to see Izzy and Steven, but if that doesn't happen so be it. 

Cant make everyone happy  : ok:
Ive been lucky enough to see all versions of GNR, so Im satisfed  : ok:

I don't think its about trying to recreate the past, which is impossible.

I can only speak for myself, but this a straight comparison from where I sit.  Cut and dried.

Do I want Axl/Slash/Duff and whoever else...or Axl and a bunch of dudes?  I'd want Axl/Slash/Duff and whoever else.

It's just a more attractive option in the here and now.

For the very limited amount of official material from the band

I think the fans have just done fine

Rewatching the same old shows.   Listening to the same old songs

I don't know how many times I have watched those Tokyo DVDs.    Hundreds I think

well boner, i think that term is just another invention shat out by the shit machine more politely known as axl's detractors in an effort to make his supportive fans feel creepy or crazy when in reality, he likely appreciates the support in the face of the massive wave of unfair parrotted criciticsm heading his way at just about any given time or place regardless of what he says or does, how him and his band sounds, or what kind of music they release.



you didnt always feel that way. you used to find the neverending criticism unattractive just like some of the others here, including me. what happened to that side of you?


no, you cannot. its not ever going to happen with this band. people have powerful delusions of grandeur about the past, and this real living creature can never compare to the museum of statues and idols existing in their heads. false idols kill reality. the mind is the slayer of the real, it prevents relationship with life by becoming an often judgemental barrier between what is and what it thinks should be. pink floyd called this barrier "the wall", some traditions call it the ego or the self. its a sad fact of life.


dx insists that axl is lazy when hes the one neglecting his job and spending the whole day on a message board. its like internalized homophobia. inside he dislikes something about himself so he projects that trait onto other people and criticizes them for it to the point that it becomes an obsession.

what you have said is no exaggeration george steele. just about anyone that has worked with axl has confirmed his perfectionist ideals.

I always have bootleg concerts on standby.  Listen to them often.

Called up the 6.10.91 show, Saratoga Springs, last weekend.  Solid show.

What...the...fuck?

One of these days I may take time to figure out how to quote something specific, until then I will keep up the giant quote.

You think I am being cridical of the band?   and taking a different stance than I have had before?

Nope.....

I am a huge supporter of the band

But....

Even a bigger supporter of the fans that have supported this band over the years...   It hasn't been easy......

It isn't easy now...   Where is this band???  Who is in it?   Where is the music?

Will the GNR fanbase ever be staisitied?

I say we have always have been....

But its like eating a Tapes meal...   Damn I need some more

From what I have read....   You are the audio guy, to me being a visual guy,  For this example.

Neither of us has the total amount of content we want..  Both are happy with what we have.  Both will watch and listen to the same old crap over and over again....

Does that make us satisfied?   I don't know....

I think it makes us pretty forgiving fans actually

For the true lack of material

Oh, as fans?

We are GREAT sports, as far as I'm concerned.

Pretty thick skinned I think also

And this board is a true to that

Many people here were so against this CD version of GNR..   They left the board..   With all these rumors around, look how many people have came back.  Just to talk about the band they love..    Pretty loyal fans I think....  Fans that havnt been always treated the best

i agee that its great how peoples interest havent waned, but dont understand the "havent always been treated the best" part. how does that work?

if its the band your talking about, then i see no angle that works for that. if its on the forums, then when you call people blind followers or insult their favorite artist as some do, you should expect a little retaliation. i never got this whole poor me thing. self pity is interesting, it plays out in often curious ways.

and i was talking about the baconman that gave a criticism of some posters criticism last november/december. you said people treat this band like parents that get upset when their kid gets a b plus instead of an a on their report card.

Haha  :hihi: Sure, you are so understanding and loyal, such an upstanding "fan".

I remember him posting differently as well, It is sad that some get swept up in the complainers club to in order to be accepted.

Negative people tend to drag people down into negativity too. After all, misery loves company.

What most complainers are looking for more than anything is agreement. They want someone to nod and sympathize and say, ?Yes, me too.? Psychologists say they?re seeking validation.

Even this time of year, with Thanksgiving right around the corner, these folks always find a reason to moan.

This is some thread.

Internalized homophobia...self pity...seeking validation.

Lot of doctors on staff here, just getting to the bottom of it all.

Everyone likes different things

I like Axl's influence on songs moreso than any other member of Guns, which is why I am happy for GN'R to continue. I have never cared for Slash's solo material. Izzy's was ok. I went on to like LA Guns material so I guess I liked Tracii Guns. Bucket is a niche taste, not for me. I like Robin Finck and his associated bands and projects. Bumblefoot material was ok.

At the end of the day, each element brings it's own fans, and they will forever disagree I guess

Then why don't you clear it all up for us and tell us why you are on a fan forum for a band that you constantly find reasons to whine and complain about. :D

I'm a fan because I like their music.

But when you, or anyone else, is resorting to those sorts of arguments to try and deal with someone that dares question something or not tell you everything is sunshine and puppy dog tails, the shark has been jumped.

Internalized homophobia analogies?  Really?

Over the top.  Silly.

Yeah. What you said.
Silly indeed!

 :-*


/jarmo

So anything new happen over the weekend?

Really nobody cares about the Jarmo/DX/Emily never fucking ending triple threat match  :)

Some of the other boards are talking about someone that supposedly has an in with Slash that says he's not touring next year.

Would be encouraging if true, but who knows with these guys who know a guy.

that would be a menage a trois!

What I heard is that next year Myles is gonna tour with his other band.

So Axl is free.. Slash is free....

Lets do it!  :)

Yep.

Which would be another good sign.

For some of us, yes!  ;D

I would think all of us, really.  Anyone still interested in the band.

I still don't even know of all this is real, but I do see how "starting to look very seriously at what they are doing in that regard" to getting the second half of Chinese out is going.

So I can't see poo-pooing this reunion or hybridized reunion tour, as if that alternative is a real world thing.  Its this or nothing, from what I see.

This, or going back to nothing...but remembering how good a time you had at that show you went to that time, and being content as can be.

As we both know, some people have agendas which would spite people who love the old band, if they can't get what they want. These people are in positions of power and will end up stopping any form of reunion simply because they fear it will get in the way of CD2. Sad but true - the fans will this time destroy the band.

Who are these people in "positions of power"?

Can you elaborate?

Because initially, I assumed you were talking about TB.  And I can't say I see that as the problem that some do, because ultimately, they are going to do whatever the boss man says.

But how can the fans hurt this?  A bunch of yo-yos longing for Robin Finck?

The Reunion starts and stops with Axl.

It really is that simple. Everything in between is just tiny speedbumps.

If Axl wants this.... it happens.

If he doesnt. It doesnt.

TB + Their Allies/Supporters + Backlash to hybrid reunion = death of any reunion

Like Oscar just said, if Axl wants this, it happens.

I really can't imagine a scenario where he wants it and they work against him.

If you want to tell me they won't be real proactive trying to make it happen, that, I can believe.  But not to the point they would defy Axl.  That ain't happening.

There's ways to defy someone and screw up someone's plans without saying to their face. That, I can believe, will happen.

Well, yeah, that's true.

You are clearly out of your mind Miser.

TB are GNR management and Axl's family, they don't deserve to get villianized by people like you.  :rant:

Instead of concocting half cooked nonsense why not look at all the good TB have done since taking over management?

But no, "fans" like you keep painting them in the worse possible light without knowing the full details.

Ridiculous and unacceptable.

I tend to agree on the TB bit as well.

I can find fault in a million things they've done (or not done) since they started managing.. but any suggestion they have the ability to influence the outcome of a reunion is pure speculation.

IF Axl wants this to happen, then the rest is just details. The only way it wont happen is if Axl and Slash cannot agree on something and that something is a deal breaker and neither is prepared to budge?

But from what we know.. (things being cool with Slash/Axl)... it appears that with a thawing of the relationship, some ground would be conceded on both sides IF they do indeed want this to happen. Which again.. is all pure speculation until someone speaks.

Well, a reunion takes TB out of the driver's seat, obviously.

But, like everyone else in this gig, I can't see how they don't make a shitload of money.  That probably eases some sting.

But does it? I still get the feeling Fernando is driving Axl's side of things though?

Of course. Because they don't like "us fans". Remember?  :rofl:




/jarmo

He's just representing Axl's interests.  Like any manager would do.

I don't find them as diabolical as some fans do.  I think they basically do what they are told.

Is there a long list of things Axl has done that he hasn't wanted to do? 

I think regardless of any managers.  Over the years, it seems if Axl doesn't want to do something.  He doesn't do it.  Nobody makes him do anything

Hahaha

Very true.

Yeah what i meant was... if there is reunion negotiations actually taking place. Is Fernando Representing Axl's side of things? Or has he engaged someone else? Because there hasnt been to many whispers of anything regarding anyone doing anything on behalf of Axl in terms of a reunion. Usually there would be something leek?

Keep in mind, we live in a universe where no leaks or confirmation of any kind whatsoever does not preclude us from assuming they've been just burning the midnight oil to get that album done.

I have been quite open about the serious questions I have about that premise.  But if it works there, it works here, no?

Pretty much... other then the comment "we are looking at what we are doing in that regard" comment.. i see no difference at all.  ;)

And often tours or dates are booked without my having formally given my consent or having authorized them. That's pretty much how this business works.




/jarmo

wow... that is ridiculous. why would they sabotage his plans? what would they even have to gain from that? besides completely betraying someone that is basically a member of their family, what could possibly be achieved by working against him in secret? and what makes you think the fans have any say in what goes on in GNR land all of a sudden? we obviously dont, not that I think we should.   

Like the tour that was booked in 2001. This may have been his quote in reference to that if I remember.

If he didn't want to tour.   Do a show or a concert.   A interview or autograph.   He wouldn't.   

I feel everything the has done since 1995.  Is because he had wanted to.   


But it's just my opinion.   Who know. Mb Axls life is in a place where he does things he doesn't want to do

It's not a bad thing. 

I do things I don't want to do all the time.  All the time.    He might have to as well.   I doubt it though.   

Nope, this is from an Australian interview in 2013

Here's the entire interview:
http://m.adelaidenow.com.au/entertainment/music/axl-rose-the-extended-interview-ipad/story-e6freeuu-1226591752718

You are wrong, he does many things he doesn't particularly want to, nice fantasy though.
One example-

" I agree to shows under various agreed upon conditions. Those conditions often change as if they never existed or are changed by others without notice or warning prior to show day or show time. There's not a lot you can do on show day about that and being forced into what you feel is an uncomfortable situation. A situation you hadn't agreed to nor would have approved in advance, sucks. It makes something that was supposed to be fun into something else."

I was thinking about that too. It was an European tour that was cancelled because Goldstein booked it behind Axl?s back. But people change so maybe now Axl likes it when things get done behind his back

I think your way of seeing this is way too simplistic for some reason.

There's obviously different levels of not wanting to do something.


Examples:
1. Do the dishes. Maybe you don't wanna do it, but you do it anyway because it has to be done.
2. Admit that you're wrong. You'd rather run away and act like nothing happened because you really really really don't wanna do that!


So yes, you can do things you don't want to. It doesn't automatically mean you won't do them and just refuse.

You just assume everything is either black or white. Zero resistance or full resistance. But we all know that's not how the world outside works. Well most of us do know that.





/jarmo

I think its a fair assessment.

He has long removed anyone that might give him a dissenting opinion or attempt to compel him to do anything he wasn't gung ho about.  No strong manager, little relationship with his label, putting together a band where no one else has any real say.

And hey, more power to him, really.  I'm sure anyone would want to have things set up where they answer to no one but themselves.  Its not like he's the first guy that wanted that set up.  Everyone would like that set up in their lives.

So your opinion is that he answers to no one, a totally independent free agent out there?

How would you know what the relation with the label is at present?

"It's a fair assessment."

Yeah, when you live in a bubble.
When you don't have to take anything into consideration.

"This is how it is because i know and I'm not gonna bother trying to understand anymore of it." That's the mentality.



/jarmo

My opinion is that there is no one in the current set-up that can compel him to do anything he does not want to do.

There is no strong manager that will put the business first, because his manager is "like family" and are never going to say or do anything that might hurt his feelings, even if its in the better interest of his business.

There is little relationship with the label because...well, because he said just that very thing.  "I don't even feel like we have a label" is the exact quote, I believe.

There has been no one in the band with anything resembling an equal say or have the requsite pull to move him in a certain direction he may not like.  They are all his employees, not his partners.  Very different from the set up of the classic band.

If you (or anyone) feels any of that is inaccurate, the obvious counterargument would be to then give me the person that has sort of clout.  Either right now, or over the past however many years.

You are wrong, AND you can't dictate the parameters of a response,

I define a fool as a person who ignores information because it disagrees with desired results.

Confirmation bias is the most effective way to go on living and believing a lie.

So...no name, then?  No person I may have missed?

I didn't think so, but would have been willing to hear you out.  Well, if you could ever answer a question.

So let's open it up to the rest of the group.  You're boring me today.

Does anyone see anyone lately in the fold with that sort of clout that I may have missed?  All suggestions welcome.  Its a conversation, not a deposition.

I know a lost cause and dead end when I see one- your biased stupidity bores me.

It isn't as black and white as you like to imagine, just one more thing you are wrong about.

Man, do I sound like a lost cause, or what?

Hey, why don't you join the big chief and show how easily you can ignore me?  He's doing a bang up job, you ask me.

Maybe he can give you some tips.  I hear the Amish are having him in to teach their young ones a master class in The Art Of The Shun.

Oh, It bothers you to be ignored? Why am I not surprised about that confession?

Save your comedic attempts and keep your day job, intentional humor isn't your forte'.

Well, I'll let you know if it ever happens.  Hasn't yet.

Then why mention it?

Me thinks thou doth protesteth too much ;)

Like I told you a while ago. If you want me to ignore you, you won't post here. It's that simple.

I will spell it out since you didn't seem to understand it last time I told you:


Do you want me to make sure none of your posts appear here anymore so you can be 100% ignored by me? Is that what you want? Yes/No?
That's the only way I can ignore any of the bullshit posted. I'm not gonna play your stupid "I'll pretend you don't exist and let you continue post bullshit day after day" games.

Your choice.

Edited to add: It must take a pretty clueless individual who assumes that it's part of the deal to be able to go to a fan forum and post anything they want and have the privilege of being ignored. You don't have that privilege.



/jarmo

We've been through this a few times now.  And every time its the same reason.  Everything gets back to how much I get under your skin.

And the last time we took a break, when I called it off, I said how long depended on you.  And you stayed away from that stuff...for about a week.  It was actually pretty cool.  Then we were right back to spending every conversation talking me, the individual, and not whatever the topic was.

So now we're at the same spot.  I, nor anyone here I imagine, is terribly interested in how much you don't like me.  And how too many conversations between us become about me and not the topic.  My god, man, you've been doing for these past few weeks without me so much as looking at you.  Posts about me, not the topic.  Proving my point or refuting, it, Jarmo? 

Look, you are never going to really care for me.  We all know it.  We're actually all pretty cool with it, myself included.  But it should not preclude basic conversations.  You from now until the end of time will disagree with much of what I say about the band.  It's no big deal.  But let's stick to that, huh?  Enough with how you don't like me. 

I disagree with most things YOU say about the band, but I don't spend post after post talking about you the person and not the opinion I disagree with, do I?  There are others here who have said WAY worse things right to you face, about you personally, in areas I have never even gotten anywhere close to coming at you with.  Right or wrong?

Can you make a better effort on that front?  The reason I put you on time out from time to time is that you have shown you can't and I get fed up with it.  Its not productive.  Why am I going to spend all this time arguing with you, about me?  Who is that helping?  Who here wants to read that day after day after day?

I'm more than willing to give it another try, but past history does not suggest we won't wind up in this same place.  You sort of can't help yourself.

Look at me and Emily.  Not fast friends.  We still make it work though.  Why can't you and I?

Its about not junking up the board with non-productive arguments every freakin' day.  It's about not seeing a way post it.

I still sit here in amazement that the overwhelming amount of your posts are towards the same handful of people you don't like.  Thread after thread is filled with people not rocking the boat in the least, keeping very much on topic.

And you don't even look at them.  You trample over them to get to me, Ginger King, sofine11, Oscar.  Or whoever else. 

I think its fair to say you don't exactly hate all this conflict.  I'd further theorize you feel its your duty in a way to combat us.  All fine.  But why do it in such an adversarial manner?

You don't get under my skin. I just disagree with what you post. I think you're wrong most of the time in your assumptions and your convenient ignoring of facts. That's it.
It's not personal. I don't care who the person behind all that is, it's just the posts I don't agree with. The sooner you realize that we don't have a relationship, the better. :)

I think this is just the result of your wishful thinking that you have some kind of effect on me. Sorry to bring you bad news.


What you're essentially asking for is to be allowed to come to our house, shit on the floor and expect me to ignore it. Well, it's not happening.



Nice twist.

It's my fault that you seem to get upset when I try to have a discussion with you. It's my fault that you post a lot of nonsense and when asked about it you get defensive. It's my fault that you attack me for all kinds of things and then paint yourself as the victim.... Got it!

Well, that's who I am I guess! :D

For you to expect that we can have proper discussions when in fact you're obviously unable to, it's a bit naive.
Your act is not working. Maybe it needs adjustment.  :)



/jarmo

Sounds like you are super interested in finding a middle ground or reasonable compromise, Jarmo.

Without patting my own back too much, I think I've done more than enough of that already.




/jarmo

I have consistently and repeatedly said that the widely accepted description of you is both unfair and inaccurate. 

Have I not?  Have I not consistently said you let people speak their mind?  Have I not repeatedly said the myth about you being some tyrant is just that, a myth?

I appreciate that.

But the thing is, this is how it is.
Maybe your outlook on certain things need to change first? Did you ever think about that? Did it ever cross your mind that you don't come across as somebody who's a supportive fan of the band and who you assume a lot of things that others might consider out of line?




/jarmo

Honestly, no.  I have never been told I am anything but a superfan of this band and Axl himself.

I didn't hear that "some fan you are" talk until I got here, and even here, its only from the same 3-5 people. 

So, given those raw numbers, I am of the thinking I simply do not conform to your personal definition of a supportive fan.  Not that I am some bad or fake fan in the eyes of the overwhelming majority of folks, and certainly not in my own.

But let's take a step further.  If I don't meet your criteria of a supportive fan, so be it.  I'm as unlikely to ever improve my standing in your yes as I am unlikely to ever think you are being reasonable when you pass that judgment.

So let's just table that part of the equation.  Neither one of us will ever give an inch.  Why keep rehashing it?

Ok. I'll use different words. to me you just come across as somebody who's overly whiny. :)




/jarmo

Ok, fair enough.  But let me ask you this question.

This is a post from the live album conversation in the other thread.  Am I out of line here?


Am I "whiny" for asking why you would fuck with existing tracks that I am clearly saying are excellent, as is?

Do I become a non-supportive fan when I ask other fellow fans if they also think this?

What's funny/ironic is that, outside of here, me and I'd assume you and others (Oscar, Sofine, etc.) are looked at as GnR superfans.  I'm the one bringing the AFD blu-ray to cards night, and dragging people to modern-day GnR (and Hookers and Blow) concerts.  But here, we don't measure up to being fans at all, or not being "supportive".  Christ, I may as well have a Vince Neil is God t-shirt on...

I posted a link to one of the possible reunion articles on Facebook, with my own caption of how great it would be.

It generated a handful of likes.

Comments, on the other hand, were split.  Between "keep me in the loop if this happens" and "you are the only one I know that would even care".

Both examples of me being considered the kind of guy that cares enough to still follow this and be excited about it.

I'll answer this and pretend I don't get your sarcasm.
Well, what are you discussing? You're complaining about the live album. See, that's the theme!

The focus must, most of the time, be on something that you don't like, isn't right according to your preferences or whatever.
What a shame!

Edited to add: Your "go-to" feeling regarding GN'R seems to be negative. When was the last time you enjoyed something GN'R did without any "but"s? That's just how some people are.




/jarmo

I'm asking if others see the wisdom of altering existing tracks that are already excellent, as is.  (BTW, that's being negative, labeling their work "excellent"?)

Because from where I sit...who the fuck else even cares about such a thing?  Who, other than fellow GNR fans, is going to have any sort of opinion on a GNR live album released 16 years ago now?

As you see it, do I become a troublemaker for even asking the question in an open forum?  Just keep that shit to myself?  Is asking fellow fans if they share that opinion some sort of subversive action, in your opinion?

I agree with D-Generation on this one, We come here to discuss things. Discussing means sometimes making an observation about something that should've been left out, or in other scenarios, added.

Its not really complaining, its discussing. WHere else can we discuss these things in the real world? THe fans are here.
I actually didnt know there where things added to that live album, because quite frankly I listened to that album once and went back to my bootlegs that where actually way cooler. Am I whining when I say I prefer the bootlegs? Just as I took something from D-Generation's post regarting stuff that was added in the live album, someone may feel inclined to start searching for bootlegs. So it is actually enriching. Somehow I just see him making an observation, not coming off as whiny.

And I would rather see people making these sort of observations rather than straight up violent posts from other members insulting everyone.

Thanks, Wooody.  I appreciate that.

Yes, you disagree.

You failed to see the big picture.
You think this case isn't complaining, but it was part of a bigger picture some just refuse to even try to see.

Which, is the problem!


When every idea of discussion can be condensed into "what I think is/was wrong", it's surprising that you come off as whiny?
Keep denying it. Actions speak louder than words though.

Edit: To those that don't follow. I was pointing out that a person seems negative in my opinion. This isn't so much about one particular post, even though the poster is trying to make it about that to shift focus. The person is not happy about me replying to his posts, so my point all along has been that maybe if the posts weren't so slanted towards negativity most of the time, they'd get a different reaction from me. Instead of any kind of response to this, it's just met with denial.



/jarmo

I would rather read from other fans that truly appreciate GNR as I do and  don't find something to complain,moan and whine about in nearly every post, so I guess we both don't get what we want.

You know what Mick says about wants.

LOL @Violent.

It's not just this single issue, anyone can check your posting history and clearly see what your agenda is here.

You continually come in here and complain, criticize and try to paint all things GNR in the darkest most dire colors, and you post opinion as fact and fantasy as truth.

It gets tiring, I agree with Jarmo.

Granted I havent read ALL of his posts. However from what ive read, aside from this one comment about the Stuff added to the LIve Albums, I don't think he's a hater. He just likes to point out flaws. That's observing, not complaining, he was probably just born under Virgo.  :hihi:




Emily on the other hand gets violent, and  like D Generation said, she pretends not to be upset by claiming not to care about what ''some dude on the internet says'', but she does exactly that.
There's a saying: The first to get upset loses. ANd thats what she does all the time.
I've seen her harass and insult not just me but a lot of people on this board, this is far more unacceptable than someone pointing out that Axl takes too long to release music.
She may not do it directly, she will always say something like:

''Its laughable how nerds''

''For me the definition of an idiot is''

She may think she is not directly insulting people but she is. SHe may fool herself into thinking she doesnt get upset, but when you resort to insults you're already upset.

You get upset: you lose.

You already lost.  : ok:

Why would you post that here? Not cool at all. :no: Troll move.

You aren't very good at sussing out people's emotions via the internet, keep your day job- I'm Zen.

Nobody gets "violent" here, that is laughable that you think so

Only one lost in the game is you  :-*

He was asking me to be treated differently. I told him why it doesn't work like that and offered a reason why this happens. Instead of acknowledging or responding, he started going on about one post. Nice shift of focus.




/jarmo


 

If I were GNR I wouldn't want my fan base to be satisfied. There is a saying in show business "Always leave the public wanting more." It applies. I would be more worried if my fan base was happy with the status quo. That's how bands become nostalgia acts when fans are content with just going to see their favorite band play the hits. After everything that's gone on over the last 20 something years they should be honored that they have a fan base as rabid as they have. Fans who come on these sites who want to hear new material. Who want news. All of that should be seen as a plus for them.

Oh, but you can stalk me from one thread to the other and that is ok ?

If I'm so wrong and clueless, why do you put stock in anything I say?  That gripe never made any sense to me.

Why not just label me misguided and move on?  Its what I do with most of your stuff.  I don't stomp my feet and shout from the heavens that you sound ridiculous.  People can read.  They know you sound ridiculous.  They don't need me holding up a big fucking sign like the crazy homeless guy on the corner.

It seems like you disregard anything I say on merit, but then pretend its real just to rail against it.

Isn't that the very definition of "straw man".  You're the board dictionary buff, help me out here.

I've said it before how It must be difficult to moderate this site.
Its true, you don't want the negative to overpower the positive.

However, sometimes supporters can be negative and critics can be positive.  Maybe DGenerationX walks on that fine line, but at least he seems respectful.

It was more asking to spread some of your attention around a bit.  Appreciate the love, but I'm really not that fascinating.

Your response percentage to things I have to say is absurdly high.  I 100% believe when you log on you search every thread to find out what the same handful of folks said.  Look at all your responses.  Look at the pattern.

It's all right there. 

I know a lot of my opinions are going to get pushback, some of it, very vocal.

But I would have zero qualms letting someone come in here, read my responses to people and their responses to me, and determine who is more out of line and aggressively agitated.

I'll take that Pepsi challenge every day of the week. 

Respectful to who?

Like I said, it's not one or two posts.... It's not something I realized today. It's been going on for quite some time.

And you know, maybe it'd be better if it wasn't the same day in and day out and if the person in question was able to be a bit more open to the fact that he's not always right... But it's not gonna happen any time soon. Until then, it's just a lot of words about stuff that don't mean anything. Say one thing, act the opposite.




Again, the poor me routine.

You're living in some weird alternative reality?

No, I don't log in and look for posters.
I look at posts. I read the new posts. It's not odd is it? It's a bit sad to think that you sit there and honestly think I login and go looking for your posts. Like really?



Now, I'm gonna ask you something, and don't skip this only because you want to.
Is it possible that since you posts so much, it's more likely that I will reply to your post than to other posts? If out of 50 posts, 35 are yours, is it more likely that one of yours will get a reply compared to say one made by someone else who only made that one post?

Yes/No?

Maybe that tells you something. Probably it doesn't because you don't wanna think about being wrong. Again.




/jarmo

Um...yeah, I do.

The other day I posted something about an analogy I felt missed the mark.  You, who I was not even talking to at the time, was able to call up an analogy I made *six weeks prior* in a disturbingly short period of time.  I don't even know what thread that was in.

But you did.

And its not just me.  Never said it was just me.  Like I said, an absurdly high rate of your responses are to the same 5 or people, of which I am one.  I just have more posts, so its seems like its more me than them.

The posts are all found right here on this board, dude.  It's not like I'm spinning some wild yarn.  It right there, and provable to anyone that challenges that.

Oh, absolutely its because I post more.  100% accurate that's part of it.

I think that's why you finally snapped today.  You've been trying to draw me out for weeks.  I knew the post you fired off today was coming eventually.  Because we both spend so much time here.  Even I'll admit it was getting sort of weird.  I just knew I'd outlast you.

Look, can I be honest?  I only went so hardcore this time around because you puffed out your chest about how you could take or leave me, which... I knew had no chance of being accurate.  So I sort of wanted to draw it out and really drive home that was just never going to happen.

I see your point about post frequency, and it has merit.  But I'd also add...why, if we are going to be talking more than most, why you insist on remaining so guarded.  Showing no levity with me whatsoever and being so adversarial.

I joke around.  You don't joke around.  Your affinity for exclamation points does not automatically make you a take it light joker type of fella.

Would it kill you to lighten up?

Well... half a day off the board to get a few things done and i miss all the action.  :D

To be fair, i tried this on my 3rd or 4th post once i joined this site, to try and "keep it light" and meet half way.. .but all i got was abuse after abuse from Emily.  :o  ;)





 

While very thankful for all the great shows I've attended and all the great music I own, I'm anxious and looking forward for the next touring cycle and the next release as well.

Haha you are a funny troll  :hihi:

Answering somebody's posts on a message board and participating in discussions isn't "stalking" them.

Paranoid much?

It is merely your opinion that I sound ridiculous, wear a tinfoil hat, belong to a cult blah blah blah.

You are very mistaken and yes, misguided and delusional about some of the things you post- so No, I'm not going to ignore an obvious and blatant mistruth that you vomit up with astounding regularity.

Capice?

Poor you  :crying:

 A quick gander at post history shows you were the instigator in any "abuse" you received. You made several personal attacks and were responded to accordingly.

I don't see eye to eye with DgenX much at all, but we manage to debate, even heatedly debate without resorting to some of the comments you made.

Your Reputation for flying off the handle and not controlling yourself proceeds you.

Mine does not.

A great example of that, is the fact you are currently arguing with 3 people in the same thread.   :-*

But its just a difference of opinion.

I think nothing is happening with a new album.  You think things are happening.  Who's right?  Who knows?

But which of us are claiming either as fact?  Neither of us.  Just differing opinions.

Why the need to pretend I claiming mine as fact?  Where is that happening in this set-up?  The only one intimating it, is you.

Haha, a majority doesn't make for right nor truth.

Again, you lot are not talented at discerning emotions on the internet, it isn't your forte'  :hihi:

I'm not arguing, I'm discussing  :-*

In my opinion (there's that pesky word) you often post inaccuracies as truth, and sometimes invent situations and conversations that never happened.

Definitely different opinions, and I still think you should write a novel and use that imaginative quality in the right direction.

Umm.. No. I have tried in the past to lighten up your hostility on here by keeping my side of things light hearted. I have not seen a response from you that indicates you are able to do the same.

Anyhoo, im gonna move off this for the sake of the thread ... Ill answer the OP's question and hopefully it doesnt cause a huge fight ;).

For me personally.... Am i satisfied with what Guns have produced so far? Up until TSI... yes... what they delivered was brilliant. And i listen to those albums more then any other music, i can honestly say i enjoy pretty much every song on AFD, UYI and TSI. CD did nothing for me, thats just my opinion.

If Guns were to never get back together, and Axl never performed again... id be sad because i dont think he would have fulfilled his potential completely. If he shares a stage with some of the classic line up especially Slash.....and comes back fit.. and looking mean and not sloppy on vocals... and does another tour and then calls it quits, then for me personally... it would be a great closure. I would love to see a couple more official releases too if this happens. I know some will disagree... but the fans probably deserve an official release if this reunion happens.. it doesnt have to be an album of new material.... hell.. id settle for a DVD of their come back show and that would do me.

I dont ask for much  :D ;)

I absolutely use hypothetical conversations to make a larger point.  No question about it.

Number of times any of them have been prefaced with any variation of : This is 100% what happened.  Write it down, write it in ink, chisel it in stone, though?

Zero.  Zero times.

What you are saying, and have been saying, is simply inaccurate.  You are describing events that have never occurred.

What's the fear here, Emily?  Someone here might agree with me?  Is that why asking the questions is so dangerous and must be stopped?

It's called examples, it doesn't have to be true, it's just proving his point, or wondering if something will happen. Imagine how boring it would be discussing without opinion

Exactly.

Ridiculous, nobody anywhere said you used that preface- straw man argument.

I said you often posted things as if they were fact, and concocted imaginary conversations and scenarios.

There is No fear at all, It is very tiring and dreary to read the same bitter regurgitation of dead horse topics and weary little criticisms every single day, it gets old.

We have already discussed why I'm not going to ignore it.

Isn't Terminology fun? You call it examples, and I call it fabrication.

No, but you repeatedly said I've presented opinion as fact, which is a 100%, no doubt about it falsehood.

It's never happened, Emily.  If it was your interpretation of how it came across, its the wrong one.  Which you've been told repeatedly, and you just keep repeating the same nonsense.

Hey, look at that.  I guess I get can't let fabrication go unanswered either.

Nice attempt to try and justify your personal attacks and attempt to save face :D

That said-
I love Chinese Democracy and consider it a very valuable piece of the GNR Discography, it contains some brilliant music.

Unlike the above "fan" I don't think Axl was ever "sloppy" on Vocals and I have been to a good many shows.

I think GNR should do what is best for GNR,and all involved, and I look forward to the next touring cycle, the next release and everything going forward.

No, I have seen you repeatedly pose scenarios and suppositions as fact.

Even Fernando said you were wrong in most of your posts.

The only nonsense is you making excuses for your obviously negative behavior and attempting to paint yourself as blameless while trying to divert from the actual issue by defending individual posts.

I have zero qualms about how that whole exchange went.

I'd link it in my sig, but don't want the implication I'm taunting.

Sure, zero qualms because you (mistakenly) think you know it all .

Confimational bias is a way to keep on believing lies and remaining delusional.

Boy, do you love that term.

No, I have no qualms about the exchange because he didn't say anything.  He quoted 3 different arguments I made in one post about 3 different things.  Threw out one line about it being wrong.  No context.  No follow up.  No details.  We don't even know, of the 3, what he was actually even talking about. 

But at that point, he was in the wind.

Now, to some of my bigger fans, this was the smackdown of the century.  Whooped up like it a Def Comedy Jam crowd back in the day. 

But then the subsequent conversation had amongst the gang here afterwards, folks did wonder what new was actually learned by his bombshell.  Even the people that felt I just got served struggled to point out what exactly was said, if they even bothered to try to answer that question.

Now, I don't have the hate for TB some do.  But one of the chief complaints is lack of communication and running and hiding, right?

Well, with that opinion out there...would you be putting that exchange in your highlight film?

How am i saving face? Do you think other posters like reading the personal wars you wage on here? I personally dont think they do.. hence why i just moved on with the convo.

Fair enough.. you like CD.. i don't. That's cool.

Axl has been sloppy in the past. RIR 2011 ring any bells?

That was bad, yeah.

But, first night and first show in like, a year.

I read the exchange, how do you know he wasn't drawing that conclusion and making that statement from reading a good many of your posts, or maybe even your post history?

He clearly said you were wrong in most of your posts.

But hey, only most - not all, there's the bright side for you. :D

I sincerely doubt he even knows who I am.  I am just some name on a screen, posting on a day he happened to log on.

I'd have been happy to have the conversation though, were he willing.  If I have something wrong, by all means, correct the record.  I'm not opposed to it by any stretch.  I've consistently said one of their great failures as an operation is letting errors go uncorrected.

But I can't force him to talk if he doesn't want to.  Can I?

No personal wars waged at all, it is discussion and sometimes debate.  :-*

I don't think Rio11 was vocally sloppy at all, that is Troll Gospel.

There were lots of things going awry that day- the endless downpour and the equipment malfunctions didn't help anything.

He said you were wrong in most of your posts, you expect him to give you a post by post personal rundown?

Hilarious :D

True.

But 'November Rain' was not a good showing for him that night.  Let's be honest here.

Incredible performance of 'Estranged' for the first time in 18 years.  But there were other problems in that show, not weather or equipment related.

Why is that wrong to say?  Anyone can have an off night.  Even just an off song.

I thought it was horrible.... IIRC he forgot the words to NR too?

Ill have to go back and watch that song again to confirm it....

And, just to clarify my earlier point about the sloppy comment.. i just really hope that IF/WHEN Axl is up on stage he is at absolute peak fitness physically and vocally. There has been times  where he probably could have done more to be in tip top shape and i just hope that if hes back, hes back at his best. That is my hope. And.... i think he will be, especially if hes sharing a stage with Duff and Slash.

He said I was wrong in one of my posts he quoted.  One post with 3 different arguments made.  I still don't even know what he was referencing.  

But if he came back tomorrow, I'd resurrect the thread from the depths and try to have a conversation with the guy.

Odd course of action for a guy supposedly so concerned with being right and telling others what's what, hmm?

It's wrong to pile blame on a performer when there were clearly more than a few contributing factors. I didn't think it was the "disaster" that some [trolls] make it out to be.

So if someone says that the performance was sloppy.. they are automatically trolls?

Oh c'mon Emily. It was a very weak performance, yes there was some other things going on, but do you think Axl walked off happy with himself after that performance? I highly doubt it.

As I noted, there were more than a few contributing factors that show.

It's real easy to sit back and pass judgment .

he said in the show he was sick. That also explains why he doesn't really care and is hard to pay attention, forgetting lyrics. Nice that he still went on. And people say he doesn't care about the fans

No, I know he wasn't happy with that show, but you have seen the trolls that post that it was some unmitigated "disaster".

It honestly wasn't that bad, and there were more than a few contributing factors.

Yes, he was sick, the equipment was malfunctioning AND it was pouring down rain nonstop.

Most definitely.

But that happens in all walks of life for professionals, why shouldn't a performance be critiqued? It wasnt his best night out. He would probably admit it too.

I read a lot of very over the top comments online regarding that show too. Thats the internet though.

Ive watched numerous awesome shows on youtube and Axl has been fucking superb, go down to the comments section and theres just hate filled shit everywhere. It's hard to swallow that stuff, because i dont think its even close to the mark. I am sure people dont believe everything they write just do it for trolling purposes. So yeah i agree with you.

However, im not one of those people for the record.

Again- considering he was sick, the equipment was malfunctioning and it was pouring down rain- it is admirable that he soldiered on with the show.

I wonder how many of the little haters and critics would have the same fortitude and dedication?

Good to know, some of those comments are way over the line, inappropriate and inaccurate, obviously Trolls, sociopaths and other #internetfilth.

Those conditions where horrible and I think the entire band especially Axl did a great job

However the true champs of the show

Where the fans there!!   

Now here, we agree.  I also find the whole "Axl Rose Disaster" routine on Youtube a bit overdone.

He flubbed some lyrics.  Shit happens.  

He wasn't killing live kittens onstage.  People need to relax.

Agreed- All things considered it honestly wasn't any sort of a disaster.

I wonder how many of those little critics would have the same commitment and determination to carry on in the light of the situation?

Axl had a off night.    There were circumstances around it.

You can say that and move on

There are people that just pounce on anyone that says anything about any show.   Or any critisism that someone may have towards the band.  

Get over it

Don't harp on the negative

Don't think everything is great.  

I treat the band like a sports team.  Well I will always be a fan.  But I like to have my say.    

Go forbid any goes to a move and gives a review

You are not a fan of movies!!   You just don't get it hater!!  

Umm. No

I love that arist and most of there work usually.  But this one per romance stunk

Best post of the day.

Nope, My gripe is with supposed fans that are constantly critical and negative about damn near anything pertaining to GNR.

It isn't confined to one topic or one post, it is ongoing.

But hey, you got approval from your possee so that's all that matters right?

I dont think there is any "possee" going on here???  ::)

Everyone (so far) seems to be meeting at half way regarding that show in Rio. Yes... there was mitigating factors that contributed to what most people would suggest wasnt a great performance. No-one has said anything derogatory about Axl today regarding that show. I said it was sloppy... not exactly a harsh word... and i still think forgetting lyrics is a bit of no no and its not a good look, certainly in the age of youtube its not... but as you rightly pointed out its not the end of the world and he did battle on which was admirable.

No-one is back slapping for agreeing to any of this. I dont think anyone is being nasty or harsh either. As i said... There is a lot of superb stuff from Axl online and i love the shit out of it.  :D
 

Typo with the Extra "E".

There are definitely two sides to the ongoing debates, complaints and more or less constant disagreements- we can call them Pro GNR vs Anti GNR for clarity, I would be considered in the Pro Camp.

I don't think sloppy is an accurate term, but that is more along the line of semantics, there are some really good songs and moments from that show-which is more or less miraculous considering the amount of things going on and going wrong-- and it is a testament to how determined, committed and Great GNR really is IMO.

yeah its always disheartening to see that stuff. you know they arent giving him a chance.

as for the argument that jarmo should leave dx alone, i dont see how you can expect that to work. its his site and you are talking about people he knows. its like going to someones house everyday, talking bad about their friends, and telling them to just ignore you. instead of kicking you out, he lets you stay, but at least he has to correct the record, doesnt he? what would you do in his position?

also, what is it that keeps this place from being reduced to the level of mygnr or youtube? isnt it because of the way Jarmo manages it? if he just starts ignoring comments, how long do you think it would take this place to become another mygnr? id give it a few months, tops. if jarmo and his way of doing things is not the reason this place is different from mygnr, please tell me what the reason is?

the internet is too impersonal. there is no scale. i heard the reason george lucas quit making star wars films was partly because of internet fans.

well this is the millionth time weve all had this same talk and brought up the same exact points. but the point that it is not really an option for jarmo to ignore posts, and where him ignoring posts would lead to, is always ignored or laughed off with some joke.

Rio was the best performance of all time, by any artist, and if you disagree, you hate Axl and love Satan.

You know posting silly trolls like this is why people don't think you are sincere or take you seriously.

Great post and great insight there, I agree  :beer:

Yeah, your analogy about refugees compared to releasing an album. It's funny because it's so sad!
And I probably remember it because it might be one of the craziest things I ever read posted by a GN'R fan relating to his "need" for a new album.




Ok. Glad we got that sorted. Thank you.




Funny that.
You're the only one who knows best, you're the only one who makes jokes and so on.

It's obvious how little you actually get. With the alleged stalking accusations and now this. But who knows, maybe one day! :)



/jarmo

not surprised, but ignored again. i appreciate how jarmo puts himself on the line to keep this place from becoming a dumpster without actually censoring peoples posts or making them leave. its quite a compromise and he really has to work for it.

kicking people out would be seen as jarmo running away. ignoring posts would also be seen as running away. like what dx did with fernandos response. "see, look! he wont talk to me! i win! wrestlemania forever!" in reality, if fernando actually addressed all the people like dx online, it would be all he did. it would never end, the conversations would be endless, and when he ran out of time, hed eventually be seen as running away anyway. hes not a debate specialist. hes a manager. so why even open that can of worms? and if anyone can say i know and you dont, its him. that whole "dont big time me" thing just doesnt work in this situation. some people simply know a lot more about certain things than other people.

say one guy studies horses through books, movies, pictures, horse shows... this guy could pass a written exam about horses. he has knowledge about horses.

another guy grew up around horses. he feeds them, raises them, trains them, rides them. the important thing is, this guy has direct experience with horses, and lots of it. he has more than just knowledge. he has understanding about horses. if this guy tells the other guy hes wrong about something pertaining to horses, its very likely that ill believe him.

last time i brought up these points i got:

"lol hes worried the place will go to shit", without any kind of alternative given as to why this place is different from my gnr other than jarmos hands on approach. in other words, no real response to the point i made.

and the classic

"why do these crazy cultists feel the need to defend jarmo or axl?". this is a cop out response. and it doesnt matter how many times i answer questions like that, it just goes nowhere.

Oh, I think they believe it.  The kind of person you are describing. 

But why even worry about them?  That's what I don't get.

You can argue he's probably not given it a fair chance, and I'd agree.  But you could play that guy 'There Was A Time' on a loop until God called you both.  Arguing passionately that the guitars are as good as anything Slash has done in GNR.  (an argument I agree with)

But he doesn't care.  That guy, the type of guy you were talking about, he doesn't respect any of this.  He doesn't consider this at all legitimate.

After what, 15 years now?  The only thing sillier than being surprised by it is thinking its ever going to change.

You just have to write a guy like that off, I think.  Who really gives a shit what he's saying?

I don't really consider both sites to be peers though.  Do you?

We may have some spirited debates about the future of this band, but we at least share a common interest that we hope there is one.  At MYGNR, trying to bring up most of the stuff we talk about just gets you "What are you, an idiot?  He's fat and the band has been over for 20 years."

I pretty much strictly read over there the past few years because any serious conversation is total fantasy. 

I agree.... and i think if Jarmo was encountering that level of hostility that happens over there, then he could have every reason for getting his back up.

The people here who question things are generally quite articulate in the way they come accross. Something that cannot be said for that forum.

I used to find a nice mix of joking around and serious discussion.

But not since Rock In Rio, 2011.  That's when things changed, in my opinion. 

It almost became more of a parody site, I thought.

I'll admit, i frequent that other site once a day. I dont generally post though unless something has pricked my mind.

DeadDaisy and a couple of other posters over there who are quite strong in their vitriol towards Axl actually turns me off the site. So i am like you.. a bit more of a browser.. and thats mainly for reasons such as someone might post a link from something on the net i havent seen or a new piece of news or whatever.

As far as good conversation goes... theres not a lot of it, unless you actually love the levels of hate being directed towards Axl.

I dont get it much to be much honest.

i think jarmo keeps this place pretty balanced. its in beween my gnr and gnr truth. at gnrtruth, even the slightest dissent and the poster will be steamrolled by the crowd. i like that site too though, have no problems with how they roll.

bottom line, i think to say things that jarmo is obviously not going to agree with and then expect him to ignore them and allow them to perpetuate on a site that he is responsible for is just a silly expectation. hes not an ostritch.

and if someone doesnt like the way he handles things, it takes five minutes to create your own forum. why should he be the one to change? nobody is forced to come here, just like nobody is forced to "wait" for news or new music. if somebody doesnt like the way he or gnr does things, they always have the option to step off this train and board another one. or they can walk or buy a plane ticket. many options to choose from. ultimately i like the way he runs this site and like his way of suporting the band. he is the primary reason i come here and i hope he doesnt change anytime soon.

what rio? 06 was pretty good, but I think 10 was horrendous.

hail satan? \m/ :hihi:

Just trying to bring some fresh air here. No hard feelings. I was wondering if I should bring this one back or the one below... Haaaa  ;D

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=66578.0

As a whole. No the entire GNR fan base can never be satisfied because it's millions of people with thousands of opinions. If anyone think they could ever please them all, well they'd be wrong.

This is why the arguements that goes "Geez, when Robin was in the band all you wanted was Slash but now that DJ's here Robin is all of a sudden missed?!" and shit like that never works. They were almost never the same people.

Right now, evidently a huge majority of fans are super psyched about the return of Duff and Slash. Yet there's those who still won't care if some other old members aren't joining in. If the Appetite5 would reunite you would still have other fans begging for Finck and Bucket.

You can't please all the people all the time, but you can please some of the people some of the time. How is this so hard to understand?

I think, in terms of sheer numbers, more GNR fans are going to happier than in any one year since the early 90s.

Sure, there will be that "no Izzy, no reunion" guy.  Fuck 'im, though.

I don't think forums are a great measure of this/in terms of the public. There's plenty of people on boards who want the Appetite line-up that would just complain about them playing too many Appetite songs each night if they got that.

I'm very well aware of that, unfortunately. What I don't understand is why after the world's most amazing news in rock n roll ever, people are still not satisfied. On these exciting times I see new threads like ''How many times GN'R cancelled their concerts'' or discussion why Axl won't show in an interview. Maybe the problem is with me, but I have imagined on THAT day huge celebrations and discussion on a bit different directions. :)

I find it funny how the media is reacting to this. Some journalists who have been writing shit about the 2001-2015 lineups and saying things like "it's only Axl, why bother" and demanding the older members back, are now telling us how this is just a cash grab and nothing more and it will suck and blah blah.

How hard can life get for some...

Yes. It's funny.
It's never good enough.






/jarmo

Most of the negative comments I have seen have to do with questions of Axl's current vocal ability.

Which, honestly, aren't going away until that first show.

But he comes out on April 16th and can still belt it out, that talk dies.

That's all there is to it in my opinion. Axl's voice has changed dramatically for the worse after 2010. If he recovers his voice, this will be a massively sucessful tour.

I agree.  Think it all comes down to that one aspect of all this.

I think tickets sell this time regardless.  But future tours will depend on how he sounds this summer.

That's for sure. But then you'll have the delays bullshit, the no original 5, the no new music, the no certain songs instead of new songs, the no press release, you name it man, plenty of shits and all wrong. :D

BTW, to answer the topic. No, the GNR fanbase will never be satisfied.

The NuGNR supporters are already expressing their dissent regarding NewOldGNR (SLashDUFAXLGNR)

Don't you figure they struggle to find real numbers though?  I sure do.

I think they should've started their dissent when Robin left. That's when I kind of let myself go emotionally.

While I do think their position is odd.  I understand where they come from.
If this is just a cash grab, and no new music is released, the whole thing could look bad.

A bit of the BS is jut how GNR is. I wouldn't have it any other way tbh, as long as it doesn't get to a point where it ruins things.

Things are getting weird  : ok:

Nah we'll probably never be satisfied. For me to be satisfied, I would need a good tour, new album and a new best of with 2 new songs before the new album.

Also unreleased box set of 4 discs with all the best unheard or rare stuff on it...

The means DO exist.

Nope. Casual fans just like Slash. Casual fans who think they are more than casual fans will beg for people like Gilby and Matt. Die-hard old school fans demand Izzy and Steven. Super nerds will demand Tracii Guns. Angry trolls just hate "Axel"

Imagine every current and former player lining up in every possible combination. One part of the crowd goes, "YES!!" and another goes, "BOO! NOT AUTHENTIC GNR!"
Also, what is up with so many angry "gnr experts" commenting about "Axel"?

For me, I'm freaking happy as hell with what's going on.

Hahahaha

How do people misspell his name?  Even if you are not a fan, he is one of the most famous singers of his time.

Does anyone talk U2 and call him "Bonno"?

I think there is a line of reasoning similar to the hipster - one has to argue that the situation is not cool, while advocating for what is cool in his opinion, and that he knew it was cool before it was cool.

Take the Gilby thing, for example - at mygnr there is people demanding that Gilby is present. Well, Gilby represents absolutely nothing in GNR history, he accomplished absolutely nothing, he was not instrumental in absolutely anything. He is also an extremely average guitar player, technically miles behind Fortus and most other players that were a part of GNR at any point. But he is old, he was around in the 90s, so he is more legit, cooler and has to be there.

I'm very happy with the reunion news. I'm enjoying the amount of attention the world is paying to GNR right now.

But as far as fans go I have the most love and respect for the people on here who were perfectly prepared to stick it out with Tommy, Ron, DJ and the rest.
Props to everyone that stayed loyal the whole time.

or to put it another way "all the Guns N' Fuckin' Roses fans who stuck with us through all the fucking shit.."

Well, I would stick with them no problem, I just wanted them to do something. Five years of touring the same songs can get a bit stale, don't you agree?

It's just all the idiots that are not satisfied..

Exactly. Well, we did get one demo leak from them.

Where does the need to use insults come from? Their music and performances are products, people have the right to be satisfied or not.

What is annoying is people who are not coherent - spend 10 years saying that the band is a farce because it doesn't have the original members; when thei finally reunite, the same people say Axl sold out. That is indeed idiotic.

I agree with the original poster. Quite a few people picking apart the "reasons" behind the reunion/reformation...While it's their right to do so, I can't help but think they should instead just enjoy the show. I for one, am very happy to see Axl, Slash and Duff on the stage - GRATEFUL to be more precise! :beer:

The world is so full of haters.  I saw the trailer for Batman vs Superman and Ben Affleck is one HOT Batman.  There was so much backlash when he got the role! GNR is going to put on some kick ass shows this year!  I will always be grateful that I got to see them Up Close and Personal. Not much of a festival gal.   Would only do Lollapalooza if I had VIP.  But will see at least one stadium show in Chicago for sure!  8)

Short answer: no

Longer answer: no, because once the band imploded, fans took sides. And as members came and went, more lines were drawn. To the point that I don't think it's possible to satisfy the entire fanbase.

I agree with most of you. But also I think there is negativity out of fear of getting excited just to see everything breaking up again.  

Agree with you 100%. Gilby had zero input unless you consider TSI's power chords to be anything worthy. It's like demanding Teddy Zig Zag on the current lineup.

^wow, great answer (kyrie).

i think people are just designed to not be satisfied about things in the long term. its like a survival mechanism in our dna or something. the whole perpetual carrot on a fishing pole being dangled in front of a horse thing.

Hard to argue with this.

The only satisfaction is if we could roll the clock 25 years (I'd love to be a rocking teen again)!  We can't turn back time, so let's enjoy the greatest thing that could have happened!

It always will be a vicious circle! Slash will be on stage but some asshole fans will ask Axl where's Izzy or Adler. Just wait!

Well....I am quite happy!!! Ok - excited as hell!!! 💃💃💃💃

To answer the original question of the thread title - no.

If you got into the band in the early days you'll always feel that the original/classic (however you want to refer to it, for me it's unimportant but I've seen how that term divides people on here) were the real band and will have always hankered for something like what is happening now to happen although there will also be those who want the AFD line-up and nothing more.

For those who discovered the band later in their career and have seen them live with the likes of Buckethead/Robin/DJ/BBF and have an attachment for those guys, their styles, what they brought to CD then I can understand that some of those people will feel it's a backward step.

For me, I'm excited, although still a little apprehensive.  I really hope that Axl and Slash have truly sorted their differences rather than just agreeing to disagree and perform together.  Whatever has happened since Slash left has happened and can't be changed but you would hope they can also remember where they came from and what they battled to achieve from nothing.  You also hope that the years have made them wiser and I think the fact that everyone is clean(er) nowadays is a big difference.

My final hope is that this just isn't a one-off thing.  I do think it would be very difficult for many to accept anything without Slash and Duff if they move on after these performances and possible tour but at the same time no one can make them or Axl do anything they don't want to do.  It would be great to see some new music but maybe the most difficult aspect of this whole situation for people who are more inclined towards the more modern line-ups is what happens to the music Axl has stated is done.  I'm not sure Slash and Duff would want to work on it but you never know especially if the band as a whole feels they can add to it.

All I'd say to everyone is accept you have no control and enjoy the ride.  The fact that Axl and Slash are going to share a stage again proves that anything can happen in this world.

It would be great if everyone would be satisfied but unfortunately to many people have there own idea of how things should be. Why not just be happy and excited about the up coming shows and wait and see what the future holds.

Agree with you 100%. Gilby had zero input unless you consider TSI's power chords to be anything worthy. It's like demanding Teddy Zig Zag on the current lineup.
[/quote]

Something wrong with being a fan of Gilby and/or wanting to see him again? It's a personal opinion. And to some, the technical ability is not all there is.

Apparently never. I can't believe we've arrived at a point where Slash and Duff have returned and people are still unhappy. It's insane.

YES.

the fanbase is very satisfied. The fans are very excited about the reunion.

There is not a band that has a fanbase with 100% agreement and satisfaction. if that is what anyone is expecting, you need to wake up to reality.
 

Yea I have to say I would have never expected to still hear people complaining after huge news like Axl, Slash and Duff playing together again.

Exactly.  There is never 100% satisfaction among any fan base, be it with a band, sports team, movie, etc.  I would guess that the vast majority of GnR fans are very satisfied with the recent events.  Well done, TB!

Yes... and even more important than them.. credit to the two MEGAPOWERS for finally squashing their 20 year feud.

I keep refreshing all of these pages 100 times a day hoping to see official tour dates pop up.

It is awesome to see them put the past behind them.  :beer:

Fanatics will always find something to bitch about.  :peace:

I think Slash and Duff being back in the fold is a very cool thing, and it?s great to see the posters here upbeat about the upcoming show(s).
For me personally, I?ve seen Axl, Slash and Duff play together. I?ve seen them play apart in more intimate venues than I could have if they hadn?t broken up, and I enjoyed all of those experiences.

But the idea of Axl, Slash and Duff getting up on stage without Izzy and Steven just doesn?t have me reaching for my wallet.
I could be cool with the fact that these guys are far removed from their prime, and I?d probably be paying 10x the amount I paid to see them in the past. Hell, I?d be giddy about it. But while Axl and Slash alone is enough for the masses, it?s still a far cry from the Guns N? Roses I grew up on.
If it ends up being Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, & Steven, I?ll be there. Not ideal, but Sorum and Gilby would probably get me there too.
If the rumours of the kinda-sorta reunion are true, I think I?ll enjoy catching it on youtube just the same.

Will at the very least be interesting to see Axl and Slash back on stage together again, where they were always meant to be.

Pure speculation on my part, but I don't think this is how it was supposed to go down.
I think possibly Axl, Slash and Duff were meant to go on Kimmel or something to announce it all.
The low key annoucment on social media might be a plan B or C. 

Its possible they hit some kind of road block. 

Overall though, I'm personally excited to see Slash and Duff back.
Hopefully we get more details soon so i can relax.  :D

How is it speculation that the future of GNR was supposed to be announced on Kimmel? It's fact.

Hi every one. I'm from Chile and my english is like shit. No Google Translator what so ever.

For years (there's some guys in this board that may remember me, maybe not) I've considered all this 1997-2014 line ups a simple tribute band with exceptional musicans but with no blod in their veins. just a bunch of guys collected carefully to try to bring back to life somethig long dead. Let's say a sort of GNR Light, sugar free, whith Estevia, Aloe Vera, fat free... what ever.

Back in the day, I really whish (for almost a decade), that some UYI/ish line up rise from the ashes and ruled the world, kick asses, fuck off all over the place... I was young.

When Slash pulled out his "solo" work, my thoughts slightly changed. I simply stop traking GNR for 5 years until a cuple of month now.

Today I'm prety exited about this. No more guitar guy doing everything to get some audience response. No more bass guy jumping arround trying to get noticed. No more three guitars (hopefully).

Slash and Duff are back in GNR.

GNR is back.

Where's Izzy?...

Matt or Steven.

No more three guitars, but two drummers?

It's kinda funny to be in this side of the fence now, watching lots of Slash haters ripping off his robes, cursing to heavens for freezing the hell, and for unleashing the Devil in the top hat.

Once again, sorry for my english.

Bye

ps: I didn't remember that already had 13 post in this board...

The guy who said that people took sides when the band split couldn't be more right!!  : ok:

Many years have passed and these differences just got stronger. for me, the perfect scenario would be Axl/Duff/Slash/Matt/Fortus....I would be happier.
but it doesn't mean I wont attend any concert or stop supporting them...We have to respect whoever is on stage.

People tend to want the unreachable and whats already gone...psychology can explain that.

Also, theres a portion of people that put Izzy in an altar...as if he is a rock God or something...

Not a God, just the soul of GNR 85-91. Without him, there is no GNR.

well izzy is the co writer on many songs so it's deserving.
personally i am glad to see then put there shit behind them but it just feels to late in the game
will i go see them if they tour after coachella most likely here in the nyc area yes i will

The question in itself is absurd and asinine in my opinion. The obvious answer is no. There are too many opinions of what the fan-base likes and wants from GN'R. There are many different music types, incarnations of GN'R to please everyone. Basically, each fan has to take what they like and enjoy it no matter what era they like. There have been parts from the GN'R era that I have both liked and disliked. The music I have enjoyed, I still enjoy and listen to today. And the music I dislike, I've always just kept hope that I would enjoy the next music that came from GN'R if any were ever released. This is not throwing hate at the music, Axl, or any band members. I'm just thinking in realistic terms.

If Izzy was not approached about taking part I think some complain would be warranted. But I think it's far more likely he's just not interested in a giant tour.

If in fact Izzy was asked and passed I'm not sure any complaining is valid here.

I believe you tried to quote me. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with being a fan or wanting him again, of course.

What I meant was people talking like this:

Why is it Gilby any different than Richard? At least Richard had an input in an original record (although no writing credit). Gilby didnt write anything, he just recorded power chords for covers and looked cool in a buch of videos. Somehow, people still consider him "more worthy" than any new member after Slash left the band in the '90s and that makes no sense.

I think I get what you mean, and I don't think there's anything that makes Gilby "more important" or anything. Maybe it's just someones preference to have him onboard? But of course it makes no sense saying that Gilby has had more input in GN'R's production than Richard, when it's clearly not true. Some people just tend to like some lineups for no particular reason and they'll stick with that no matter what. Nothing wrong there!

Yeah, I can accept that argument for sure. If it's all about opinion, I agree 100%.

If they do a tour after Coachella he can jump every time he wants like he did in the past.

I wouldn?t say Gilby is more important than Richard.
If Izzy isn?t an option, than Gilby would be my second pick because he?s the guy I remember from the Illusion tours.
I liked his live Wild Horses tradeoff with Slash, and Dead Horse cover on Pawnshop guitars, whereas I personally have no emotional attachment to Richard. I?m honestly not sure what he contributed to Chinese Democracy, and it?s a record that didn?t resonate with me regardless.

Izzy to me is as much a draw as Axl and Slash.
He was instrumental in the writing process for the era of the band I became a fan of, and it probably helps that he?s been so elusive as far as live performances go over the years, whereas I?ve seen Slash, Axl and Duff countless times post ?93.

So you'd rather choose a guy you remember than a guy we know can play basically anything?

"We?re fortunate to have found Richard who has this vibe kind of like Izzy but with amazing feel. The first thing I heard Richard play was the beginning of "Stray Cat Blues" by the Stones and he did it with the right feel. Richard likes to play rhythm. He?s an amazing lead player and very technically skilled. He really likes the pocket that Brain sets and the two of them click with Tommy so we finally have the real deal rhythm section, as Richard is a proven professional. Basically, Richard?s the guy that we always were looking for. I think that we?ll go on to write some very interesting things with Richard and he?s already done some rhythm work and some leads on the album.?

Axl in 2002



/jarmo

I think the people that prefer Gilby is basically because of the Tokyo Video, that was played on TV and sold like crazy back in the day, its basically the only official video of the classic GNR lineup. Gilby got tons of exposure because of it at the time GNR exploded and took over the world!
Thats said I dont mind Richard Fortus on this current line up, ideally Izzy if not Fortus is good!  :beer:

Yup.

Mick Taylor can play pretty much anything, too, but he?s not affiliated with the era of GN?R I?m a fan of.
I get that there are fans of all eras, and fans of Richard would like to see him involved. That?s cool, I get it.

I?m personally not into anything Richard has done in his career, so given the choice, I?d take Izzy.
If not possible, Gilbyl. He?s not on Izzy?s level by any means, but could be cool.
If not Gilby, it really doesn?t matter to me. Richard will not be a draw in any way, and neither will Frank.

The focus for me would be Axl, Slash and Duff.
The rest of the band will be filled by those guys that replaced the guys that wrote those songs I?m a fan of.
It will be cool, but still feel very much incomplete.

Honestly I don?t personally know of anyone that feels otherwise.

Yeah, I get it. You want Gilby instead of the guy who's more like what Izzy is like, if you can't get Izzy.
Only because your videos have Gilby in them. Makes perfect sense.




/jarmo

Thank God Izzy likes to show up in Europe!
😉😉😉💃💃💃

I totally get LongGone's view.

I think it's because Gilby was part of the most popular era and was the first replacement selected by the band back then. there's a connection between him and Axl, him and Slash, him and Duff. Slash and Duff have no real past with Richard (ok, Slash played on The Dead Daisis). It#S kinda cooler to have the replacement than to have the replacement of the replacement.

Besides Tommy, Richard was/is the coolest new bandmember since the departure of Slash and Duff. he fits playingwise and performacewise I'd think and he seems to be a nice guy.

Yeah, this doesn't seem all that wacky to me.

Gilby was a part of the band at the height of the popularity and visibility.  No one outside of we diehards even knows who Richard Fortus is.

I can see both the argument that Gilby never wrote anything nor appeared on any original GNR material.  But Fortus wasn't exactly a driving force in the writing on the one album we did get that he's on.  And its the album with the least amount of exposure, made the least impact, and the most likely to be glossed over in these setlists.

Ultimately, does it matter?  Tickets are being sold on the backs of Axl, Slash, and Duff.  The other ones could probably quite literally be anyone.

I prefer Richard over Gilby. I only wish Richard was around in 93 ... maybe the two big chiefs wouldn't have fought so much over the spot if he was. He's the perfect guy to fill Izzy's shoes. We've known for some time that Slash is pro Richard.

Lol! Yeah, that logic is beyond me. Anyone who prefer's Gilby to Richard, or even Adler to Frank is thinking with pure nostalgia at the wheel.  Rooting for an Izzy appearance I can of course understand. He wrote a good chunk of the songs we love, and is still tight with Axl and the rest.  The others?  Guest appearances at best.

I can't see really passionately arguing Gilby over Richard.  Just don't think it really matters.

At this juncture...no it doesn't.

I'm still not over the miracle that is a Slash/Axl/Duff full on reunion.  How anyone, upon hearing this news, can still go ahead plant their flag in the ground over the likes of Gilby or Adler makes my jaw hit the keyboard every time.

Haha.... same boat...

I prefer Gilby to Richard and Adler to Frank  :peace: And yes its purely for nostalgic reasons.  I am not afraid to admit it.

To answer the title of the thread.  I am satisfied with what is going on.  I am satisfied with Axl, Slash & Duff taking the stage together again.  I genuinely thought after the RNRHOF incident that it would never happen.  I mean it when I say this, but I am happy that Axl and Slash are at least communicating with each other.  Whether they are amicable with each other or doing this reunion solely for business reasons I don't care.  Those guys went through too much together to not even talk anymore.  

Richard Gilby Adler Sorum Frank....blah. The big fish is and always will be Izzy. Arghhhhh

You can bet he'll be around for a lot the shows and (God willing) tour.  How much is anyone's guess, but I can't see him not taking part in some way. He's really the only "alumni" that I would freak out for anyway if he made an appearance at a show I was attending.

There is a reason they haven't announced the full lineup for Coachella....still holding out hope for Izzy playing at least those shows.

Im pretty sure they are negotiating with Adler and Izzy at least some guest spots!  :peace:

I fail to see any similarities between Izzy and Richard.

Izzy wrote songs that helped propel GN?R into one of the greatest rock bands of all time.

Richard covered them.
During an era I have no emotional attachment to.

Again, Izzy to me is as big a draw as Axl and Slash.

If he doesn?t participate, it?s a let down regardless of whether Gilby or Richard are filling in.

Very cool that Axl, Slash and Duff are involved.
Just not as cool as Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven could be.
That?s all.

The problem is that Gilby failed to achieve the sound Izzy brought to begin with because: a) he oversimplified Izzy's work; and b) he was always buried into the mix (seems like it wasn't Slash's fault, because all the other rhythm guitar players he worked with had a better mix). IMHO, if you rather get him, you really don't care about the sound - or even you don't care about Izzy's guitar work overall.

So, if we are not getting Izzy, of course I would pick Richard. He's been in the band for 14 years already, it's only natural. And again, he plays Izzy's parts just like he's supposed to do.

Well we aren?t going to change each others minds here.

Izzy is my 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc choice.

Gilby would make for a halfway decent consolation prize because he was at least a part of the amazing Illusions tours.

I didn?t vote for Richard.
I don?t question his ability, or importance to post Illusions GN?R, but he happens to be part of a pretty forgettable(to me) era of the band.
I also don?t question that he may be a better choice if starting a cover band, but my preference would again me the real deal, Izzy.

It looks like Richard is in, so I?m happy you and fans of his will get to see him up there.

Its sort of funny to hear one of Richard's big selling points is being able to play like Izzy...

...when just about every member of the original band said Izzy's guitar playing was average, at best.

I don't think Izzy and Richard are alike at all....Richard is really more of a lead player but what do I know.... ???

Not trying to change your mind. Actually I was just trying to find any logic behind it. Like I said before, if it's all about opinion, fair enough. And of course I wasn't talking about Izzy, he would be my first choice too.

Nobody is really talking about skills. Richard is more than capable of it, hence why he actually played some Slash and Buckethead solos.

Richard and Slash will be interesting...double barrel shotgun!

This is quite simple... I love Adler. He has the chops to play UYI stuff, he wrote the drums for most of it anyways.

Frank is the better drummer though, and the safer pick. I'm cool with Frank being the guy. Just let Adler do some stuff on a few shows.

With Richard, I'm also cool with him, as he's very underrated. I would prefer Gilby personally but either are great. Izzy would be amazing but I don't think that is going to happen.

I'm just happy overall about it all.

To you yes, to the majority of people buying tickets, absolutely not.  This week I have found myself having to explain to people who own Guns N Roses albums and plan on attending any possible shows coming up who Izzy Stradlin is.  Its crazy but true.  Some were not quite sure who Duff was either.  To the majority of the public its Axl/Slash,  Tyler/Perry, Jagger/Richards, Page/Plant etc..

Yep, yep.

I personally consider Izzy the most important guy in band history after Axl.

But that is inside baseball thinking.  To the general public, Slash is #2.

Izzy is, what a press release might call it, a founding member.
But never had the mainstream popularity... And what he had, he walked away from.



/jarmo

Well if Izzy and Slash were to share the stage I wonder could a track like 'Ghost' be thrown in there as a bonus. Would love to hear Axl's vocals on some of that material  :peace:

Yup.
And unfortunately Coachella, and promoters know this.
They can promote it as a reunion, charge full price as if it truly were one, knowing full well that the casual fan won?t notice the difference.
Until they get there, at least.

Good question...but also I think that a lot of "haters" (i.e. jealous people who wish they had GNR's success/passionate fans) also like to complain about GNR/never satisfied either! a lot of negativity out there...I think its more a reflection of people in general and not GNR fans!!
I myself have been a fan for 24 (s*** I feel old) years and I am SUPER happy (but sorta doubtful...its too good to be true) of this reunion. But in all honesty I will take whatever I can get...I will see any hanger-ons of the (original) GNR camp! They grew up with me in my living room (on the tv)...they are my family!

I hear ya coolranchdressing, it's like a high school reunion with your old buddies

It would be cool if he was on board. What people don't understand is that if he isn't, it's because he doesn't want to. I'm pretty sure he received the call.

I dont know if you guys are aware of the concept of critique?
Youst because you dont agree on something doesnt mean you hate the person.
Its not that hard concept to grasp, but if anyone feels like exploring the concept... here's a link:  Critical Thinking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking)

here's a few more
Introspection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introspection)
Retrospective (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrospective)


for me personally, there's no point in saying the things I agree on if its implicit... or if its been said already.

I really dont intend to make 6000 posts that say "Me 2, Me 2"... and "I agree" like some of ya.

I'd rather have 2000 posts that actually have content and a thought behind them, even if that thought might be perceived as negative... it was not ad hominem, but an attempt of objective POV at the situation.

Taking it back to Izzy, while he was an important creative force in the band, from a live performance perspective, he really doesn't bring anything unique to the table.  So we're really not missing out on anything, other than sentimentality.

A-FUCKIN-MEN

Exactly right.

I like that! Couldn't have explained it better with my average english skills. Ups, I criticizes myself. Do I hate me?! No, it's all good.

As someone pointed out earlier, it's not about Izzys skills but what he played. And that stuff is more than often pretty cool and laid back without being usual. I understand the part about Gilby who didn't get it right at times.

Criticizing is fine. Most of it in this forum happens in a good, respectful way backed by facts anyway.

Still, I think all of that will disappear once we get asked if we know there the fuck we are in april.

I think Izzy is fantastic and his contributions to GN'R are immeasurable.  He is my favorite rhythm guitarist of all time along with probably James Hetfield.  But, from a live performance perspective I think Richard Fortus wins that one, at least for me.  I have seen them both perform live with Guns N Roses , and Richards energy and playing ability are out of this world.  I don't think anybody going to the show is going to feel shortchanged by what Richard brings, probably the opposite.

IF I have anything to really say about IZZY is he was hella great on the backup vocals. Its just something I kinda miss on some of the old tunes.

Honestly, my first choice would be Izzy. Second would be Gilby because of his connection to the peak era of GN'R. Third would be Richard.
I do kind of wish Dave Kushner was in it, if only because I enjoyed his work with Slash in VR; They have good chemistry, which is important in rock. You can't just put any two guys in a band and expect them to gel.

Nah, there will still be some whiners that didn't go to the show complaining on the internet and trying to validate their whining by calling it "free thinking" or "objectivity" or some other nonsense justification.

It's also weird how there seems to be a huge need to prove wrong anyone who thinks differently in the GN'R scene. If you'd like to have Steven back for example, you're wrong because technically he's not as good as Brain. If you'd like to have Brain back, you're wrong because he's not an original member. It goes round and round.

Can't see why so many are not able to actually discuss their and others' opinions. It's always us vs. them isn't it?

And regarding this matter, I can totally see why surprisingly many seem to want Gilby back in GN'R. Say you grew up with the Illusion stuff, got into the live recordings and watched the videos. You probably fell in love with the band and there's nothing that can replace it, no matter how good it is. Even though Gilby did not play on the records, he was a big part of the UYI-era Guns N' Roses and had his moments live, he surely won some hearts over. And this same scenario works with any other member too..

I'm satisfied.... fuck the rest.

Thank you Axl. Tyvm to Slash too... and all the motherfucker in this history of GUNS!!!!

Thanks to this we have a lot of bands to enjoy!!! Rapidfire, Ten min warning... Loaded....Snakepit... a lot of contributions with Sir. E. john.... M.J.. Tom Petty.... Aerosmith.... Rolling St.....and much more!!!

Thanks Guns N Fucking Roses. CHILE IS WAITING FOR YOU GUYS!!!!

Guns N Roses Rules!!

One thing I know: there are lot of old faces here who came back after the news started to break in. So yeah, I think the GN'R fanbase will not be 100% satisfied with anything, but I can say that pretty much the majority is happy.

It's just the way it is. I can speak for myself: I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, I'm just backing up my opinion.

Again, if it's a matter of opinion - you like him more - it's all good. What I can't understand is how people say "it's not a reunion if Gilby is not there", which has no logic at all.

That is so true.  Michael C Hall practically channelled David Bowie on the Steven Colbert show and there were a lot of rude remarks left in the comment section of Rollingstone.com.

Most people seem fine with the concept, but let's be honest here. 

There's also a handful of people here that consider this a "safe space" where they want to be shielded from certain questions and opinions, even if they are from fellow fans.

I'm sorry, but that's weird.  Actually, I'm not sorry.  It's just fucking weird.

Yes!!!  This rarely gets mentioned but his backups were a huge part of the some of the old songs.  My favorite is definitely the vocals at the end of YCBM.

The correct wording would be: There's also a people here that consider this a "safe space" where they want to be shielded from pointless whining.

 : ok:



/jarmo

I'm thinking more about threads like yesterday, about the demand.

People starting kicking around the pros and cons of a stadium tour.  A topic eventually deemed too hot and all around dangerous, and moved out of the big room.

C'mon, man.  That's weak.

Yup, after the original band broke up the backing vocals have always kinda sucked! Izzy + Duff ruled it!  :beer:

Izzy and Duff (and O'Doyle) do in fact rule, but I loved Finck's backup vocals on the live version of Madagascar, shame that didn't make it on the record.

It's fucking boring to read your whining about GN'R. Simple as that.
Constant need to put your negative spin on most thing relating to GN'R. No wonder you love it here because that seems like the norm elsewhere, where you don't exactly stand out.

Maybe it's time you went back to wherever you came from since your mindset still is the same it's always been, and it'll probably not change anytime soon....
Like I said, I had some tiny hope that with recent events, there'd be a slight change in the attitude. But no. More of the same.

Your posts belong in 2003 or maybe 1997.

The only thing weak is you. A real Debbie Downer.




/jarmo

GNR haven't had an easy ride over the years - either by the way other people have interacted with them, the band themselves or their actions, or the media.

It would be inaccurate to pretend that isn't the case, and on occasions some of the bands own actions could be seen as somewhat self-defeating. But, on the basis of what I've seen, it seems to have been a tight ship run well the past few years. I hope it works well and I'm positive the band will very very good on stage.

I wonder if the people who kept using the term revolving door about GN'R in the past, are now also using it in regard to Duff and Slash rejoining?
Just kidding.  ;)

But it's a bit ironic that what some considered horrible and bad now seems to be in their favor.  :)




/jarmo

a personal question jarmo if I may. You probably knew the band members better than the average guy on this forum.
do you personally miss any of them? not in terms of music.... but just as a dude you got to hang out with?

I haven't seen any of them since June 2014.
But yeah, thinking back..... I had lots of fun times with all those guys.



/jarmo

Old Jarmo 2014 & New Jarmo 2016

 :rofl:

No, the 2016 version is older....  Hopefully wiser too.  :hihi:



/jarmo

Four Decades Of Life Is Much For Me !!!

I Old

 :rofl:

Good point as some hardcore fans are capable of whining about anything, but I think it might be different this time. Since it's a reunion, most are expecting the set list to revolve around the classic era. In the CD era(especially the beginning), hardcore fans were expecting a set list revolving around new material. It didn't happen and that's when the set list whining began from a portion of fans.


Great point kaas but you're just noticing this now?  :hihi: It's always been like this. Hell if the internet had been mainstream then, some fans would have been doing this when Sorum, Dizzy, and then Gilby joined. Izzy leaving would have made some think the sky was falling and some would have complained about his replacement.



Great point. Personally I would prefer Izzy but its not likely so I can see why Fortus would be in. I think Pawnshop Guitars kicked ass but I don't really want Gilby involved but I can see why many do. While he played on TSI, he played on most of that UYI tour which millions went to, was in GNR videos,  but thankfully I got to see them in concert right before Izzy bailed.

We all have our preferences.

Agreed, and certainly a more casual audience wouldn't complain about it at all and they're the majority of people who will be filling up the stadiums.


Yeah that's entering bat shit crazy territory.  :hihi:

Ugh. The comments section on many web sites is a cesspool of trolls. I weep for mankind when reading comments on youtube. I've noticed some people say things like "casual fans hate this reunion. They're bitching on RS, blabbermouth,etc. saying Axl sucks now, he's too old, blah blah blah". Those aren't casual fans. They're trolls. They'd be spewing garbage no matter who was the subject of the article.



:hihi:

When this first happened I said I wished there was a way they could actually market it in that direction(just say they're rejoining the existing band) but obviously it's going to be called a reunion just for the fact Slash is back. No way around it. Media pounced on it immediately.