Here Today... Gone To Hell!

The problem with Guns N? Roses isn?t an Axl problem. Nor is it a Slash, or Buckethead or Bumblefoot problem.
No, the problem is the fans.
Honestly, when you give Chinese Democracy an honest listen, you?re given a trip into a musical world wherein the lyrics have grown and deepened, the musical landscapes have broadened and become more complex, but retained connective tissues to, including the core, of what was heard on Appetite.
People talk about Appetite like it was unassailable, yet even it has Think About You, which wouldn?t have been out of place on a Poison album. I apologize to fans of that song, but I?ve never liked it. So, maybe you don?t like Madagascar, but does that mean you toss out the whole album?
So why do people dismiss it? Why do they talk shit about the new band?
Simply, I think it?s just a symptom of a larger problem in the world of the Internet. Nothing was as good as it once was.
When I read reviewers and supposed journalists who dismiss Chinese Democracy, it kinda makes my blood boil. It?s not the annoyance I have when people write three page articles about the Star Wars prequels not being as good as the originals, because I can see that. In ways they were no where near the originals, so while I may enjoy the special effects, I can see why you don?t like them.
However, I can?t see how someone can say that that Chinese Democracy has no merit while Appetite is one of the greatest albums of all time. Of course many of these people are the same who dismissed the Illusion albums as one good album spread across two releases full of filler. My question to them is always the same, what do you eliminate? Sure, no one likes My World, or sees the logic of having two versions of Don?t Cry (although at the time, if you were 15 and could only afford one album, as least you got the hit single with no matter which album you picked up).
But do you get rid of Right Next Door to Hell? Coma? Dead Horse? Don?t Damn Me? So many of these songs are part of the lexicon of GNR, and fan favorites. 
Once again, it?s the idea that nothing is as good as it once was. It?s the same all over the Internet. There are people out there right now saying that, and forgive my constant movie references, that the 1989 Batman is better than the Chris Nolan films. 
It makes no sense.
I can?t say I love every song on CD. However, I also can?t honestly say that it didn?t give me some of my new favorite songs of all time. Not just favorite GNR songs, favorite songs. Period.
Yeah, it?s not Axl singing about heroin, strippers, hookers, and the sleaze of the Hollywood strip, but if it were, wouldn?t that be a little inauthentic? Like when Bon Jovi writes songs about how hard it is to make it financially, but he?s a damn millionaire and has been for 20 years.
No, the new GNR sings about deeper things, addresses more adult topics. Yeah, it?s not guys in their early 20s scoring dope between gigs. It?s guys that have grown up and are out there making music.
I?m gonna see them Tuesday night. I?m betting I?ll have a pretty damn good time.

So why do I say it's the fans? We're the whiny bitches at the bottom of every story saying "Axl this, and Axl that ..." Stop! Support this band already!

You've very good point.

The best way to descirbe about these days is a quote from polish sci-fi writer Stanislaw Lem:

"I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet."

I'd add, too, that while some people don't like certain songs, there are many groups of fans that enjoy those songs the most. Personally, I love Madagascar, but I'm not a huge fan of CITR or Prostitute. Yet, I realize there are a lot of fans that enjoy those songs the most. I think that's one thing that Chinese Democracy did really well, it was an album for all fans, not just fans that like the ballads, or the hard rock, or songs with great lyrics. There's definitely something there for everyone. As you mentioned, the same is the case with UYI 1 & 2. A lot of people love Breakdown, while I'd much rather prefer Don't Damn Me or Locomotive (or, dare I say, My World).

Unfortunately, we live in a world that loves to hate for the sake of hating. If someone is "too good" (Tim Tebow) we hate them. If someone is "bad" we hate them too. It's funny that I have a newsclipping from a few years ago that that said they liked the new GN'R band but wish they were still "dangerous." Yet, now people complain about GN'R going on later than other bands, so somehow we want it both ways and we also want it no specific way. (I'm currently writing an article about this very topic, so it's great timing.)

It's a testament to the diversity of the album that some people like certain songs while others like other songs.  : ok:

I'd add to these excellent points that so much of today's ill's are about being instant.

Go to show, anything more than a five minute wait and its moan about being late.  Release an album and before the 2nd week of its release the can't wait for the next album to drop comments appear.  

There is no appreciation for the build-up, the reading around something, the anticipation or soaking in of something great by repeated listening. This is life in general and not just a Guns problem.  I have heard CD almost everyday since that day in 2008 when it was released, and still fine the odd moment of sound that I have missed or misheard. Do I want a new album? I wouldn't say no, but I'm in no rush to take CD out of the car either. :smoking:

people bitchin chinese democracy even they didn't hear it...Your point is good,but I don't understand why did you use "madagascar" like comparation...Maddy is an amazing and powerfull song like whole album...Maybe there is some Axl and menagment guilty because  "no promotion"...I like Cd as I like Afd or Uyi

I don't think there's a problem with this band.

I think you can sum it up pretty easy. People like what they like.

I'm a huge fan of GN'R's back catalogue. I was expecting to be a big fan of Chinese Democracy.
Didn't pan out that way. Doesn't make my opinion any less valid than yours. I thought it had it's moments, and I'm confident that Axl still has some tricks up his sleeves that I will enjoy. People talk about hearing new little things every time they put on Chinese Democracy. That doesn't do anything for me, it just says they spent a ton of time layering tracks in the studio. That's my opinion. There are reasons why I'm not in love with the record. I've listened to it many times over.
I enjoy the music on a lot of the tracks, but for whatever reason, this time around Axl's lyrics did not resonate with me. That was a huge surprise for me.

It's really not a conspiracy that this album isn't everyones favorite. It seems to me that a lot of people think that those who don't consider Chinese Democracy a masterpiece are lying. I know a lot of people that gave it a chance. They genuinely didn't like it. It's a different era and a different sound. I don't know why it's such a concern to people what others opinions of it are. Who cares?

For the record though, we agree on Think About You. Never liked that song!

Just because that's the one I personally liked the least. It's not reflective of I think they did a bad job or anything with it, just not my cup of tea. Like Think About You.

LongGoneDay, I'm not saying it's a masterpiece, or that you HAVE to like it. I'm just saying people who completely disregard it seem like they never really gave it an honest listen. If I understand you correctly you're not saying, "this record is complete shit," you're just saying, ?it?s just not my cup of tea.? See the difference? I've read stories about the band that say things like, "CD offends all musical tastes" and that it's complete garbage. That's different from saying, "it just didn't connect with me." The guys I'm interbitching about are the ones who are flat out insulting about it, and say it has no merit whatsoever.

The whole "trim the fat off of the Illusions" theory never sat right with me

Those albums are forever engraved in me exactly BECAUSE they are the way they are

I can see how someone trying to get into them years later would suggest that, as there are clearly some weaker songs, as you pointed out...but dare I say you can take Physical Graffiti...which I consider almost a masterpiece...and I could find a few on there that I just don't care for  - sometimes that's just what makes an album..an album
The good , the bad and all that comes with it

And the mere mention of Coma as a possible exclusion should get you bitchslapped!  ;)

Yeh cos critics have constantly talked about Illusions having excess fat on them it seems to have seeped into our thoughts as hardcore fans almost like its gospel that there is a lot of shit UYI albums and thats that. I couldnt think of more than 3 songs out of the 30 i could do without

Totally agree.  I am listening to "So Fine" right now, and that was my favorite song on either UYI, and my favorite song overall for YEARS... some would say it could be cut...

An album is the sum of the parts, not a compilation of singles...

I really like your last sentence. I wish I had thought of it!

Yeah, I'm a guy who always skips So Fine. However, I used to skip past Breakdown all the time, but lately, I can't get enough of it. Some songs grow on you. Honestly, I'm probably the only guy in the world who actually enjoys My World. It was just a little experimental numetal rap before that type of thing ever even existed.

No doubt!  Every time somebody asks me what my fave GNR song is I reply, "Right now?"  As for Think About You, it was my least fave in the 80's but now I absolutely love it.  I don't believe there is a bad song on UYI (I really don't even count My World as a song).  My first fave was Nightrain though and it has been my fave several times since.  As for CD, I love it.  IRS has held the top spot for the longest amount of time.  Prostitute was my least fave at first until one day it was playing in the background on my way to work.  All day it was stuck in my head so I gave it another go.  WOW!  Guitars are spectacular, lyrics great and Axl is...Axl. 

One last point, people just want to be cool and Slash is considered cool.  I love the original lineup but I watched the REAL GNR in KC last month and they sound better than EVER.   In a GNR quiz those "it ain't GNR" folks wouldn't stand a chance against those of us that appreciate the entire catalogue. 

"People talk about Appetite like it was unassailable, yet even it has Think About You, which wouldn?t have been out of place on a Poison album. "

-I always thought TAY would have been a hit if it weren't on the same album as SCOM..

"People talk about hearing new little things every time they put on Chinese Democracy. That doesn't do anything for me, it just says they spent a ton of time layering tracks in the studio. That's my opinion."  SlashBaconpit

In my opinion "layering" isn't the reason at all.  Take the movie "Dumb and dumber"  I must have watched that movie 15 times before I heard every funny line-I was laughing so darn hard at one thing that I'd miss the next.  With CD, I'd be appreciating some little sound or touch so much I'd miss something just as impressive a second later.  I think CD is great because so much went into every song.  It may be layered but it's outstanding on a straight line.  Folks need to hear it on a quality system to fully appreciate it.

I hear ya.  For me, my favorite GNR song of all time is "Estranged".  But, I love "Prostitute" some times (like listen to it on a fucking loop for an entire 30 minute drive to work).  But, for NOW NOW, I have been listening to "Out ta Get Me" over and over.  And that is because I watched "Live at the Ritz" earlier this week, and I love Axl saying "SOme people want to tell you how to live, wear your hair, tell you how to talk.  Makes me feel someone is OUT TA GET ME!!!" and the song starts like a God Damn hurricane...

For me, GNR is the soundtrack to certain things in my life.  Sometimes I like Estranged, and some days i want to skull fuck people and listen to OUT TA GET ME!

nope, no problem at all

GNR ALIVE AND WELL FOR 2012 :smoking:

No, you're not...

Like almost any other song in the GN'R catalog, I enjoy it when I'm in the mood for it. Some of my least favorite songs in the GN'R catalog are on each album but I enjoy the greater majority of songs on all of them.

Music is art...it is an expression/extension of the artist...hopefully most "real" musicians are allowed the control to place what songs they want and where on the album (I'm sure this hasn't been a problem with Axl and co.)  By real I mean, not Britney Spears, Aguilara, etc. who are all controlled acts that don't write their music or lyrics.

I think the Chinese Democracy was a good album...nothing truthfully blew me away like UYI when it came out, but it still had really really good songs on it.  I love Sorry, TWAT, Catcher and Madagascar...I think those are all very good songs

I remember as a teen when I heard Estranged for the first time it blew me away...it was unlike anything I'd heard before.  I remember listening to it on a tape walkman on family trips over and over and over trying to comprehend all aspects of it...then I'd switch to November Rain then to Civil War then to Coma.  I was just in awe at how awesome those tapes were.  Perhaps it's a different day and age also now that I'm in my 30's I just don't have the same look towards music also...I didn't expect CD to come out and just obliterate everything I've ever known about music.  I'm at a different spot in my life now where music is important, but just doesn't resonate to me the same as a kid...so I can't say Madagascar blew my mind and changed my life, but I enjoy listening to it now and then.

Different times we live in ya know...no longer do people anticipate album releases...hear a single and listen to the radio for days hoping to hear it again to record it on a blank tape...recording videos off MTV.  Now everything is readily available to minute you hear it.  The same excited aspect of it all doesn't exist.  Just go on youtube and boom it's there...go to Pandora and boom it's there. 

I think the problem are not the fans. The problem are old members like Slash or Steven, because they always wanna come back to GN'R. But i think, the're only saying it, because the press wanna hearing it.
So, everyone is pissed off about Axl, because some lies, old members telled the press.
Sometimes i think (when I listening some solo stuff from Duff or Slash): "This could be inspired a bit from Chi Dem".

Yeah, I hear you. I would never say it's garbage. Street of Dreams and CITR are in my rotation. I still listen to it front to back every now and then to see if it grows on me. Clearly a lot went into it, and to write something off without hearing it makes little sense.

That was actually me who spoke about the layering. That's cool. It's a different take than mine, but I totally get what you're saying. For me, growing up listening to the Illusions records, it took me a long time to distinguish lyrics of the songs, and understand what they meant, so I felt like there was always something new I hadn't picked up on before. Obviously it doesnt apply to all the songs as some are pretty damn straight forward, but I think you know what I mean. Some of the lyrics, Axl especially, wrote blow me away to this day. Last 2 minutes of Coma, Locomotive, Right Next Door to Hell(w/some help), Perfect Crime etc. Some amazing shit. I didn't get that on Chinese, but I can't name one band off of the top of my head where I can say I love every album. The Stones are probably my #1, and they probably have 8 or 9 records I could live without ever hearing again.

Good call on Dumb and Dumber though. My favorite comedy of all time. I've actually been meaning to watch it and count how many lines are NOT funny.
I can't think of any off the top of my head. At least not out of Lloyd or Harry's mouths.

Wow, amazing how 2 people can look at the same thing and come away with such different perspectives.
Slash hasn't said much that would leave me to believe he wants anything to do with GN'R. Steven? Yes, but he's referring to Axl, Slash, Duff, and Izzy.
I don't think he wants any part of the current lineup.

Duff and Slash solo material pretty much sounds like it's coming from the exact opposite spectrum of Chinese Democracy.
Slash and Duff are into the more down and dirty, classic rock n roll sound. Axl is more into the cleaner, Queen, Elton John style etc.
That's what made their partnership so great, it all blended beautifully together. In my opinion, the alumni could benefit from compromising on their musical direction as they did in the past. But I guess that was one of the big problems in the end, wasn't it. How much could they feel comfortable with. Obviously they reached their breaking point.

Think About You is about heroin. Listen to it again in that context and you'll know why it wouldn't work on a Poison album

Yes! When I listen to songs like Seattlehead, Lords of Abbadon or Dr. Alibi, I recognize threre a lot of inspiration from Chi Dem. 

Seattlehead has been around since 2001 if not earlier I think.

I thought Dr. Alibi would have felt right at home on the Spaghetti Incident.

Lemmy and Chinese Democracy. Now there are two polar opposites!

Seattlehead is from 1996 indeed.

And I'm with you: Lem and CD are really polar opposites.  ;)

I said a bit. It doesn't meant a whole album or something.

IMO,  if there's a problem it would be that
"opinions are like a@@holes" as Axl well said it onstage in 88.

With no disrespect to any fellow fan...

A bit or a beck's?  ;D