Here Today... Gone To Hell!

If you think about it, it's been a long time since we've known for sure that Axl was actively recording new material. Ever since the release of Democracy, Axl has publically expressed little, if any, interest in completing future albums.

It's not uncommon for 70s, 80s, or 90s bands to exist soley for nostalgic touring purposes these days. Every few years, tour the hits, make some cash, and then disappear until the next tour. Has Guns become one of these bands?

Many of the members of the band have indicated new material as being done, and soon to be worked on... Do not think that GNR is one of 'those' bands

How can it be "done", but "soon to be worked on"?

Regarding anything that may be done, wasn't the bulk of that material recorded 10 years ago?



 

Any material that may be done, or nearly done, or whatever is likely from the Chinese Democracy sessions.  That music is new to us, so I don't see why it matters if it was originally written 10 years ago.  There were songs from UYI that were written and even performed live 5-6 years before being officially released. 

Ali

How does this prove anything?

Just because he isn't talking about future material, doesn't mean there's no hopes/wishes/plans.


In case you forgot, the band hasn't toured the US yet since the album was released.







/jarmo

If GNR was only for nostalgic purposes, there would have been no need for the Azoff lawsuit.  Now if we can get the label to see beyond the back catalog........

I think you're just looking for trouble here....

There are songs that are done, and there are plans to write new material (Per DJ Ashba)

If they were a nostalgia act, they wouldn't tour on CD. Have you seen the set lists of the last tour? Full of CD songs. Which is great and clearly shows they wanted to defend their last offering of studio material, and not cashing on the old songs!

This thread was definitly created by a troll. 

I personally think Axl and the band would be happy to release/make more music but certain obstacles in the background seem to make it impossible at times.  They toured quite a bit before CD was released, but then when it was released a year passed before they toured and the album wasnt promoted at all.... really bizzare stuff. 

With the money spent on the album, the touring before the album was out, the lack of promotion, the greatest hits album etc and the Azoff case... it leads to me believe that lots of agenda's and fallings out in the background took place.  Sad really.

guns never broke up
they just dont give a shit about being commercial so theres no silly buy this buy that thing going on. or a pressure of touring

Well, with no new music on the horizon...

Isn't the ultimate nostalgic purpose that reunion? The one that some of you are dreaming about instead of living in the present....



And I bet you'd be first in line to buy tickets to some kind of reunion show with absolutely no new music on the horizon.

Kinda ironic isn't it?

Basically everything some of you attack the band for today has happened in the past, and/or you wouldn't mind if it was a different line up of the band.

The Use Your Illusion tour was two years with no new material released during it. They played many markets multiple times. Shows didn't end before 11pm. The setlits didn't always change. The production didn't change a lot. Band members were replaced. Backing musicians were added/removed.

I guess some of you were upset and yelling on the streets about how it sucked to have yet another leg of the tour with no new album out, how the setlist was the same and the shows started late. I'm sure most of you weren't posting these "honest opinions" on the Internet back then (unless you were using something like Usenet, mailing lists etc.), so yelling might've been your only option to get that attention you crave...






/jarmo

I still want to hear the other CD era album.  Wasn't Axl working on, what, 32 songs as of 2006?  What happened to the other 18 songs that weren't on CD?  ???

The Use Your Illusion tour had 2 album releases at the same time before! Don't see how you can compare it bro...

I remember. I even saw them before those albums were out.

Wonder if people were whining about it....


It doesn't change the fact that they toured for almost two years without breaks with no new material released during the tour.





/jarmo

How could GN'R be around for nostalgic purposes when they are doing the exact opposite thing that fans of "nostalgia" would want?  They are putting out completely different sounding music with a completely different line-up. 

You want an example of a nostalgia act?  Look no further than this summers Motley Crue/Poison tour.  Those bands hate each other but did a tour together for the money.  Vince Neil squeezes into his leather pants everynight and fist bumps Tommy on stage, meanwhile that is the most contact they have without lawyers present.  The whole thing is a sham.  They have no interest in creating NEW art or pushing the envelope.  Vince treats Motley as a business and signs contracts to lend his services to them for months at a time so Motley Crue can make money.  They are selling the same show they sold in the 1980's.  Im not sure how you can compare modern day GNR to that. 

If GNR were here for nostalgia purposes, you would see Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy back in the band and they would have been on tour with Motley Crue this past summer.  GNR is on to a whole different thing now. 

OMG what a unnecessary thread.... ::)

Would the live-setlist include so many CD songs if Gn'R was a nostalgic band?

Would Bumblefoot, Fortus, Ashba, Stinson and the rest stick around to be a cover-band? No, they are real artists with an urge to create....

Is this thread all made up for the purpose of the same discussion many other threads are turning into; a couple of people with a "New Guns ain't as good as it was back in the day"- mouth diarrhea vs. the people who think the Gn'R-evolution is a good thing?

answer would be "no" but like almost any other "older" band there will always be some nostalgic touch to it.

I personally don't give a shit what they play ever.... as long as my favorite band is touring and bringing music to the table, past or present catalog I am on cloud nine, what a damn silly topic this is :o).

Axl doesn't strike me as the type to tour for nostalgic reasons.
If anything it seems he'd like to forget about the past. When recording the Illusions he talked about topping Appetite, and I'm sure his motivations were similar with Chinese Democracy. I won't pretend that I come anywhere near comprehending the lack of output since '93, but I'm sure it will be a fascinating story if we ever get the pleasure of hearing it.

As others have pointed out, Nostalgia acts setlists aren't loaded with songs off of their latest release.

on the other hand the setlists always have been heavily AFD loaded, too.

Yeah, you could probably make the case when they were touring in 2006-07, as those were certainly very heavy on the early stuff(no complaints here).

I think it's more likely that they were attempting to keep the bulk of the Chinese Democracy songs a mystery until the actual release date.

probably right, it got different since end of 2009. but it doesnt change the fact they did tour under the GN'R name 2001-02, 2006-2007 with many AFD songs on the setlist, hell they always started with jungle, easy, brownstone then!

Of course a band play songs from all the catalouge, but that doesn't necessarily turn em into nostalgic acts...But I do agree that some more UYI-stuff in the setlist would be great. Then again, I would miss the ones left out....

And Limulus (alias Twister :rofl:), the concerts in 2001-2002 and 2006-2007 did feature lots of CD-songs. Even one that didn't make the album. That's not something a nostalgia-act would do..........

As I said before.........What an unnecessary thread.......... ::)

Axl doesn't for Nostalgic purposes, i think the 2002 and 2006 tours were just to gel the band and build the chemistry i don't think u can build by just jamming in a studio together.

Now I am sure there is a casual fan that goes strictly for the nostalgia but that isn't the band's fault.

A band that exists only for nostalgic purposes don't play music at their gigs that was only released three years ago. If they were interested in being a nostalgia act, a reunion would have happened by now, only playing tracks from the 87-93 era.
Also, we've had confirmation from pretty much everyone involved that Axl is constantly writing, and I'm sure the other guys are coming up with potential Guns tracks, too. The only question is if/when they get around to getting them out. I think they will... eventually. But at the moment they're still touring, and Tommy has some of his own stuff to get out of his system in down-time (he's been in Guns mode pretty much full time since he finished the VGH tour).

No, I don't believe for one second that GN'R are a nostalgic act. In fact the Chinese Democracy era has cemented GN'R's place into a legendary band who kept on growing and evolving, rather than a band like Crue for example. GN'R in reality cannot be further from that idea really, with new members, music and a new image which has always slowly evolved.

But the problem comes with the US, because I do believe the people there see GN'R as a band in the same category as Poison, Crue, Kiss....and this makes me sick. GN'R are regarded as Gods and legends in places like South America, Europe and Asia. And the places afformentioned see GN'R in the correct manner, which is evolving artists who are legends.

But the US has always seemed to put GN'R into the "nostolgic" catergory, which is plain wrong...

I don't think the US puts them in the same category as Poison, but I do think MOST Americans long for the AFD or UYI GNR lineup.  Although, aside from South America, I think that's the case throughout most of the world.  People generally do love nostalgia.  They love to see something familiar and think back to the good old days. 

IF the new lineup made themselves a little more visible and put their stamp on the scene, then things might change.  Unfortunately though, that hasn't happened as of yet.  At least not in the US.

I'm really not sure that's the perception of GN'R in the states.
In their heyday anyway, they were considered the lone cool band that came out of that scene of cheesy bands you mention. I still think people feel that way, the only difference is their heyday is long over.
A lot of people consider them the last great rock n' roll band, up there with Zep, Stones etc.

In my circle of friends, no one likes GN'R any less today than they growing up.
They just aren't into the post Illusion era, so to them, GN'R is dead.

I know what you guys are saying... I guess I feel the same way as Axl in regards to it's alot more of a longer road about old guns in the US, compared to Europe and other districts.

I just feel that the rest of the world see's GN'R more as legends, the way they should be seen... than the US does.

I totally get what you guys are saying, I am one of those fine americans who are the exception to the rule.  If they would just come to Seattle I would party so hard with them it would make up for" the lack of" the others here seem to be missing :P.  Guess I am one who has never forgotten and never stops appreciating the finer things in life, GNR are in my book  "So Fine"!!

Axl said it himself in the 2002 vma interview. How do you rebuild something that was so big, so huge, replace every member and  re- create something that already was?  I do think he has done a fantastic job, but america is just a tough sell for it. Most Americans have a vision or a preference of what GnR is/was and its just not going to be changed. Not to mention, Axl doesnt really do alot to change it in the states.  I cant speak for anywhere else around the world. It seems to me that other places around the globe have a much more open mind about music than the states. The states are perfectly fine being force fed top 40 and any new hip hop or R&B FOTW artist. The states will never warm up to the new band. It doesnt matter how many albums will be released..the next one will sell less in the states than CD.

Well, last i checked gnr did very well in the big markets... Axl just has to stop going to these small Midwestern markets and keep the tour in the big ones like Chicago,NY,Boston,LA etc



.

And that's what makes me still have hope for the US fans, are fans like you. But in all seriousness, there are thousands of fans who thankfully share your desire for GN'R in the US. It's just that it's alot less compared to other countries, and in more cases than not the majority of US fans can't get passed the old band...

That's what I've come to see from what I've witness over the years... I've seen GN'R 3 times in North America, 2 times in Las Vegas and once in Toronto, Canada. And I must say that those crowds were the exception to the rule, but in places like Florida, and similar markets, I can imagine the crowd being stuck in 1987.

I agree with D about GN'R sticking to the main cities like NY, LA etc, but I would like to see GN'R do more intimate club shows, so that they know only hardcore fans will turn up, especially in those smaller US markets...

If you look back at some of my posts in other topics similar to this you see I have tried to explain the American mindset towards modern day Guns N Roses as opposed to other countries.  This is just my interpretation of what I hear and read from American fans. 

It seems the American audience has a sense of ownership of the band, since its an American band.  To them, GNR is the "Appetite" or "illusion" line up and any deviation from that is usually met with negativity.  To them GNR is also a  classic hard rock band, and any deviation from that sound is also met with negativity. 

I truly believe that GNR would sell millions of records and play stadiums in the States if they had the original line up and just played old Slash style riffs with Axl singing over them, even if the songs were not as good as "Chinese Democracy."  Look at bands like Metallica, Aerosmith, and Ac/Dc.  Those bands sell out arenas and stadiums no problem here in the states, and they sell a lot of records too.  "Death Magnetic" and "Black Ice" were just weaker versions of those bands previous efforts and both of them dominated the Billboard charts.

The bottom line is Americans like familiarity.  They like a familiar looking line up putting out familiar sounding songs.  Guns N Roses today is not only a totally different sounding band, it is a different line up.  Those are the two things Americans identify with most and they are not there. 

I thought GNR tried to do something with "CD" that had never been done before and pulled it off brilliantly.  I was one of the fans like many of you who checked the bands movements on this site everyday for the decade leading up to "CD."  I was completely happy with the album and can't wait for more from them.  I see GNR live every chance I get, and I always will.  I am the exception to the rule though here in the states.  For every one of me there seem to be 10 "fans" that spread nothing but negativity.

all subjective but dont rule out the big chance that those songs could have been much better  : ok:

I agree with just about everything you said here, with one big exception. I don't view it as a negative.

I would say just about every band has it's shelf life creatively. The average bands is not long, and the greats are longer than most, but for the most part, bands that stick around eventually put out less than fantastic records.
The Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, Metallica, etc have almost as many weak albums as great ones, but that is just something people have come to expect from bands that have been around as long as they have. I don't think the majority of fans are really going to a Stones concert to hear "A Bigger Bang". I'm sure most people are hoping they won't hear anything off the latest record at all. Regardless of the setlist, they get to see the people that created the music they love. I think somehow people really underestimate that.

Like you said, Chinese Democracy is a new band and sound. If the original lineup was touring, you are right, it would be a huge success.
They would not even need a new album, because at the very least, people would have a chance to see the members that created those sounds on the records they love.

A lot of people were underwhelmed with Chinese Democracy, so it's tough to find fault with someone who doesn't want to spend $70+ to see a new band they were never a fan of to begin with.

There are fans of the classic lineup. There are fans of the new lineup. There are fans of both.
I don't view any as a negative (except maybe for the sick fucks who's aren't fans of GN'R, period).

Maybe. But we should also acknowledge the fact that some people just don't love CD. I know people who didn't connect to the songs at all. It isn't always just a "it's not the old band" thing.

I think you're spot on on several points. Honestly, I  think Americans  just dont give a shit. They dont care. Even if the original lineup in some bizzare turn of events got back together and toured, after the initial shock and going to the first few dates I think it would die off and they would be playing to 3/4 full houses and that would be that. Especially if Slash had his way and they were going on stage every gig on time and there was nothing to gossip about. I could very much be wrong and not have the full grasp of how bad the casual person wants to see a GnR reunion across the entire US, but I'd imagine smaller markets would still be a tough sell.

As far as the US goes, I think Axl, in reality has made the best decisions he can make. He doesnt draw a lot of attention to the new lineup, doesnt do many interviews, the band in general doesnt do a lot of US interviews for major media outlets and he just put out the record and let it speak for it self. I thought it was HIGHLY underrated and haters couldnt listen to it for what it really was, they had their minds madeup before they even listened to it. So for him to go out and try to sell it when he has that to deal with is just setting himself up for rage!!  :hihi:

Do they exist for nostalgia reasons? No, They are a rock & roll band.. and a damn good one

U have to remember also, in the United States we got a million different things fighting over our entertainment dollar......... I think in some other countries, choices aren't as prominent so when GNR comes to town or any big concert.. there isn't a lot competing for your money.

That isn't suppose to sound like a diss or like an asshole thing...... if im wrong please tell me


so here... I think its the reputation of the late starts etc... most people these days just don't want to stay out that late.

In the United States, we have become a microwave society.. we want what we want when we want it and we have little patience and definitely don't like to wait on anything. So there may be 5 or 6 choices coming to town... and most weigh it out and decide to spend their money on what seems to be the "safe" choice.

I don't really agree with people who don't like the album being haters etc.... its possible people just don't like the new soung.  Its a good album but kind of a depressing album..... I know myself... I have to be in certain moods to listen to it cause otherwise it kind of brings me down... Appetite and the Illusions i can listen to repeatedly over and over but Chinese is great when im depressed or down... but its the last album i'd reach for if i were having a good time or in a great mood.

Yeah, I didnt mean to come across as all people that dont like the album being haters. I was meaning the haters that wouldnt give the album a chance or had their mind made up before it was released.  :)

oh yeah. Problem is.. most prob heard the first single and didn't even give album a chance like u said when in all honesty, CD the song is prob in the bottom 5 if u were ranking the songs on the album.

Yeah for me CD the song is definitely middle of the pack as far ranking them goes. I was much happier with earlier demoed versions of the song. Not a big  "Street of Dreams" fan or "Scraped", though i wish I could find that Eric Cadieux club mix in a full version. Alot of people just had pre-concieved(sp?) notions and never got past it.. and the album is definitely something you have to listen to more than once, it grows on you the more you listen to it. I remember playing "If the World" for a friend who saw old gnr back in 87 in Pasadena and was still a gnr fan, but man the first time he listened to it he was like.." What is this? sounds like some jazz shit" "this is horrible" but a few days later he's like " Dude, this record is pretty damn good the more I listen to it" and I just giggled  :hihi:.

Axl does what he does and I respect that. A theater tour in the states would be amazing. Something like Hammerstein capacity across the US would be really cool. Or something big like a big bill Aerosmith/GnR arena tour would be killer

Lets be honest about this. Don't kid yourselves that this band is like any other band - its Guns n Roses, with its own story.

I, like most people here, don't know much, but my view based on all the actions I've seen:

Axl does like writing new music, but hes rich as fuck and has no motivation to write or tour except for fulfilling his own musical desires. So he wants to but he's probably lazy, and very picky when he does work, and would probably usually rather just enjoy being a zillionaire - as I would if I were him. So he tours partly because he loves playing music (including CD which im sure hes proud of) and partly cos he wants to make money to continue to fund his lifestyle. Hes writing new music because he wants to, but there's no NEED to, thats why its so slow. Fuck, if I was him I'd be doing the same.

And im sure there's hundreds of other factors at play. But, from all his actions, thats the vibe i'm getting on the situation

Your vibe may very well be correct.

Maybe Axl doesn't care about recording or releasing new albums.

But, I can't say that I don't find this thought very depressing as a fan.

Releasing an album isn't that easy though. especially with the label he is on which mostly pumps out shitty Rap/Pop stuff.

You're 100% correct, and this is something that few fans consider when these issues are discussed.  A large number of fans want to see THE actual band members that created the music and legacy.  The setlist or any recent albums are incidental.

Take Journey as another example.  Since they last recorded with Steve Perry in 1996, they've continously toured and released albums with a revolving door of new singers (and without classic drummer Steve Smith).  I imagine that fans are happy with just seeing the name Journey on the marquee and a setlist featuring old hits.

On the other hand, there are fans like myself, who couldn't care less about their new albums.  However, I would go see Journey in a heartbeat if they reunited with Steve Perry, even if they just played hits from the 80s.  You can call is a "nostalgia act" all you want to, I call it a special opportunity to see ALL the band members that helped make Journey what it was in my mind and many others' minds as well -- not just 3/5 of the classic lineup with repeated singer changes.



Indeed, and people also have to understand that it's not just the ticket price.  Going to concerts also involves the cost of gas, the cost of food, the cost of parking ($30 at some U.S. venues), taking time off from work, sitting in horrible traffic in clogged cities, and let's not forget standing outside the damn venue holding your bladder until the bastards at the gate finally decide to open the doors.

If I'm going to endure the ticket price plus all of the above, I want to see ALL the band members that made me love the band to begin with.  Hearing the songs and seeing a show isn't enough for me.

I'm sorry I was paying attention until you said you would go see Journey in a heartbeat and then I stopped reading..  :hihi:

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.

Only one (!) album of new material in over 20 years!  :rofl:

Coming to a GN'R board to state that in order to get a reaction.  :rofl:

Bye. :wave:


/jarmo

In my opinion, GN'R was always ONE band, i dont care, how many line up changes they had in the past.
and i dont need words like "new" or "old or "next" gnr, because it only describe the different eras of one band.
So for me, CHI DEM is the sixth studio album from GN'R, as AFD the first.

as long as it says Guns N' Roses on the cover thats good enough for me  : ok:

GOD you are such a fucking loser... do you actually remember the days you actually ran a forum where people could express an opinion.. now your so far up Axl's arse I don't even recognize you.  Ya cool... you get to go on tour with Axl... U cool buddy.... but seriously this forum WAS cool... yep there was a time... but now.. your such a complete ass kisser I'm embarrassed for you... really... I cringe when you post... good job buddy... I'd run a forum the same way if Axl paid my way to go on tour BUT that doesn't make it cool and certainly doesn't make YOU cool.... regardless your a complete and utter douche you pudgy little wiener go fuck your self with a bad ass black dildo and post it on I LOVE AXL:S ARSE DOT COM

"this message will self destruct in T minus 30 seconds because Jarmo can't handle one ounce of criticism because he his the hitler of Axl's world....enjoy the payroll... hey your like dizzy... Ya cool" :peace:

hmmmm....wow!   whoa.....    umm... you're really holding nothing back.  l.....never mind......keep your nose out of it, Lynn.  Keep your little nose out of it. 

Leaving this so everybody, including the poster above, can see why you were banned.

Of course it's all because "you can't handle criticism".

This is what the mantra is. "I was banned for saying the truth". They never take responsibility for their actions and always "forget" that 99.5% of their truth was personal insults aimed at me and/or the band.



Thanks for the support Lynn.

Appreciated.  : ok:


/jarmo

There's a lot of musicians that aren't recording new music because they're not making any money off of putting new music out.  GNR's contract ended once Chinese Democracy was released.

If you know someone with a record label... 

I'm pretty sure they are still under contract with Interscope/Universal. Axl said something about dealing with the label in that newspaper interview he did back in December.