Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295529,00.html


Report: Pentagon Has 3-Day Plan to Knock Out Iran's Military

Sunday , September 02, 2007


The Pentagon has drawn up plans for massive airstrikes against 1,200 targets in Iran, designed to annihilate the Iranians? military capability in three days, according to a national security expert in Sunday?s edition in the Times of London.

Click here to read the full story from the Times of London.

Alexis Debat, director of terrorism and national security at the Nixon Center, said last week that US military planners were not preparing for ?pinprick strikes? against Iran?s nuclear facilities. ?They?re about taking out the entire Iranian military,? he said.

Debat was speaking at a meeting organized by The National Interest, a conservative foreign policy journal. He told The Sunday Times that the US military had concluded: ?Whether you go for pinprick strikes or all-out military action, the reaction from the Iranians will be the same.? It was, he added, a ?very legitimate strategic calculus?.

President George Bush intensified the rhetoric against Iran last week, accusing Tehran of putting the Middle East ?under the shadow of a nuclear holocaust?. He warned that the US and its allies would confront Iran ?before it is too late?.

One Washington source said the ?temperature was rising? inside the administration. Bush was ?sending a message to a number of audiences?, he said to the Iranians and to members of the United Nations security council who are trying to weaken a tough third resolution on sanctions against Iran for flouting a UN ban on uranium enrichment.

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) last week reported ?significant? cooperation with Iran over its nuclear program and said that uranium enrichment had slowed. Tehran has promised to answer most questions from the agency by November, but Washington fears it is stalling to prevent further sanctions. Iran continues to maintain it is merely developing civilian nuclear power.

"Yep - we're fucked"

I'm kind of weary of going into another country to pick a fight, but if you compared the 2003 Iraq to the 2007 Iran,
Iran is a much bigger threat than Iraq ever was.

However, we are so invested in Iraq right now attacking Iran would really complicate things.

What would be left of the Iranian military would surely go after us in Iraq ( even more than they do now with their covert operations)

So when's the draft?

Because if we're dumb enough to go into Iran, then you sure as hell know that it's going to be brought back.

That's when I move to fucking Canada!

Surely this will further stabilize the region...

I got an idea: How about we all just bomb each other to shit, after all that is what our experts believe will lead to world peace, democracy and freedom.


10 bucks to the first one who can say the above sentence with a straight face.

Threat to what?

We're fucked when it comes to dealing with Iran.

Do nothing and they develop the bomb, then they use the leverage to control the middle east.

Strike first and we have the beginnings of a much bigger war.

The best we can hope for is the Iranian people get fed up with their leaders and overthrow them.

Something about them having Nuclear weapons I think....and there is no real counterbalance to them politically in the region.

Edit: China keeps North Korea in check, that is why there can be a dialogue with them regarding their nuke program where all parties can come away with something at the end. Iran is a different situation. Iran wants more power and control in the region and having nukes would give them a lot of clout to bully the middle east and Israel. 

Nuclear Weapons does not make them any more of a threat than other nuclear powers.

But they do limit the forcing hand of the U.S., and that is of course what this is really all about. Greed and power. Switch the rockets for spears and we're all but living in 500 BC again :beer:

I don't recall other nuclear powers threatening to wipe other countries off the map. That makes a big difference.

Also, who are they willing to sell nukes to?

That's a western media lie. The translation is a falsehood.


Well, the U.S. sold it to them, so who should we be worrying about the most?

we let them, help them, gain civil nuclear power
we start a global discussions concerning nuclear weapons, and either let them have the bomb or show signs that we reduces our possessions (including israel's).
we re-evaluate our obsessions of controlling the middle east... i mean the world.
we re-evaluate our so called democracy and free market and stop wanting to spread that fake freedom all over the world, comparing our silicone tits to burka.

it's time the west talk to the rest of the world the right way. not like a father but like a brother.

Are you Iranian? It just seems absurd that the translation was false.

Can you provide any evidence the US sold nuke secrets to them? We've been enemies of Iran since their Islamic Revolution & 1979 hostage crisis.

I don't agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I will agree that talking down to another country never yields positive results. The US tends to do that at times.

It seems absurd that Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor, that Tonkin Bay was a lie, the Kuwaitian girl who testified about the hospital incident in 91 was an agent, Bin Laden has purposly been let to escape, CIA smuggling drugs, WTC being an inside job, and just today you could read about the planted evidence in the Lockerbie explosion. The list goes on.

Yes, it truly is absurd, but it's also the truth.

Pardon my sold, gave would be more appropriate.

Washington - In a clumsy effort to sabotage Iran's nuclear program, the CIA in 2004 intentionally handed Tehran some top-secret bomb designs laced with a hidden flaw that U.S. officials hoped would doom any weapon made from them, according to a new book about the U.S. intelligence agency.

 But the Iranians were tipped to the scheme by the Russian defector hired by the CIA to deliver the plans and may have gleaned scientific information useful for designing a bomb, writes New York Times reporter James Risen in "State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration."

Scientists and officials working on Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme have admitted for the first time that they gave Iran crucial technical information on building an atomic bomb.


It's time to take action before our 'leaders' bring everything to shit.

im praying to whatever god that england does not get involved with this one. please please please dont let us go to war against a country that are so retarded they would nuke us without thinking it over.

If the nukes start flying, we're ALL fucked man. It's game over.

i never wanted a nuclear war in my time :( if theres one way i didnt wanna die it was from nuclear bombs.

I don't want to die anytime soon either man - just keep praying to God that this doesn't happen.

i stopped reading after this.  Do you think Elvis was an alien to (and that hes still alive!!!)? 

as for the article - take this with a grain of salt.  I'm sure its propaganda to some extent - meaning we want the Iranians to know we can disable them in just 3 days.

I'm sure the pentagon has plans like this for almost every country in the world as well.  It's called being prepared.

A strike against Iran at this point would be absolutely retarded though.  We must exhaust all avenues of diplomacy first.

is it true that the vast majority of Iranian citizens like and support the US (or something like that)?

I'm guessing it's not the first time you've stopped reading something.

To some extent, yes, but not to the extent where it's simply propaganda. What we have seen the last couple of years is not far from an exact blueprint of the lead-up to the Iraq war. And for that it needs to be taken seriously. The government is planning war, again. Shall we fall for it, again?


No, that's called imperialism.


Can't disagree with this.


Somewhat. Meaning they're more interested in a more open and prosperous society than being under the heel of religious extremists. But that should not be interpetated as a welcome of American intervention. They will resist with Allah as their protector if they must.

when its ridiculous as what you've suggested. yes.  why waste my time.  But, I'm sure you could point me to some websites with irrefutable data that 9-11 was an inside job.  B/c EVERYTHING on the internets is true.

I can't type anymore though, I have to finish watching Loose Change  :rofl:

I can't decide whether this has turned into a "hate America  :rant:" thread or a "conspiracies are everywhere!  :nervous:" thread. 

But I will add that the Pentagon also has a secret to 3-day rock hard abs, but they're holding onto it to keep us fat.  : ok:

Bush could go on national television admitting it and you still wouldn't believe it, so why bother trying.

Boy are you in for a surprise. Like the little kid who discovers Santa isn't real.

Funny how that always happens. Either we're all batshit crazy, or it's a conspiracy. :confused:

I see that happen a lot around here. Angry paranoid people love the internet!

This could very well be posturing by the pentagon. I'm sure they have hypothetical plans for every potential volatile situation in the world. Except Danfur, Sudan. There is nothing to gain there except for saving innocent lives.

Exactly, all militarys have contingency plans. It is their job. If one were to look deep enough into the British Dept. of War archives, one could find invasion plans for North America.

Iran with nuclear weapons is a threat to all western nations. Their Supreme Ayatollahs are crazy enough to martyr all of Persia and a good chunk of the west for some belief, if they thought it was "Gods" will.

I see you have an intimate relationship with the Ayatollah?

Praise be Allah

Let thy kingdom come.

Posturing, that's it.

Just as Iran does.

Iran is setting itself up to be its region's dominant power. I think it would use any means necessary to achieve this, including nuclear blackmail. 

Yea, Iraq has WMD too.

What is "Nuclear blackmail"?

Good. I hope they use it.

They won't.

anyone rememeber this one?

"bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity"

That pretty much says it all...

speak for yourself when you talk about silicone tits, it's pretty far from the truth overall :P
And thank god for that :hihi:

I agree, democracy for sure is an great ideal but it doesn't mean it's the best governing form like we most wishes to belive
It's all political pressure, Iran and the rest of the world knows USA are capable and will act if they determine it. Usa knows that they know.
I think and hope it won't happen, the report can put enough pressure on Iran to review their middle-east policy instead. :peace:

They have different plans for nearly every country in the world, its standard procedure so that when the unexpected happens its not totally unexpected. The US even had one for a war with the UK, lets just say Canada gets f**ked big time!

As for Iran i doubt the US would go in. Its impossible to occupy Iran, its terrain is probably some of the worst in the world and the Iranians themselves pretty much hate the US and the UK Iraq would look like playschool compared to a military occupation of Iran. As someone said before the best option is to sit it out and wait for the people to get fed up with their hardline government. There is already a pretty big movement over there who secretly meet to watch listen, read anything Western that they can get their hands on. Its only a matter of time.

Jonx
 

doesn't the US have lazers and shit ready at all times to blow nukes out of the air when they start flying or are they not done building them yet?



a quote from that 70s show comes to mind "if theres a war i'll see you in canada man" :rofl:


:peace:

I'm not going there at all. We have a whole other thread on Iraq. This case is different. Iran admits and the rest of the world knows they are developing nuclear technology. Iran says they wish to wipe Israel off the map. Iran from its actions is trying to become the dominant power in the region. If they had nukes, I think they surely would threaten to use them to get what they wanted from other countries.

Why is that acceptable to say? ?If you live under the blanket of security your nation provides and the quality of life it gives you, why would you not defend it or answer its call. ?It sickens me that today's generation has lost its sense of duty and patriotism. ?This is why America will eventually fail, no one is willing to take a stand or do anything that requires sacrifice on their part. ?And what makes you so sure Canada would want people that run away form their civic responsibility. ?I sure as hell wouldn't advertize my country as a safe haven for cowards.

Israel is the fourth largest nuclear power in the world and could wipe Iran off the map in a matter of minutes. Iran knows that and is talking tough. That's it.

It will fail because of liars such as yourself.

Wow, you are on a role.  Even you know that I'm a hell of alot more in touch with America and the principles of this nation than you could ever aspire to be.  Simply put, you're a coward who has avoided difficult situations your entire life.  What is so hysterical though is the only difference between you and Haliburton is the paycheck - which just proves what a loser you are.

I got a ten minute plan, just push the button and drop the bomb.

Bush's "End Game"?

i said it as a joke ::)


would you wanna work for Bush? ?honestly



American youth hasn't lost the sence of duty and patriotism but they have lost the sence of taste in music though.

not me though ;D i like G'n'R



hey, i'll be the first to volumteer to press the red button and wipe all those fuckers of the face of the earth.



aren't the majority of you people up there french?




If you live in Canada then why the hell do you care? and if your so in touch with Americas ways then why don't you move here and be drafted?
(Provided there is one at the time)


damn right man, i'll agree to that. :beer:

Dim....yup.

The title of this thread makes me say, "Duh."  I would hope the Pentagon has a plan to destroy the military capabilities of any potential adversary in days.  The outrageous % of my tax money that goes into military spending (highest on this planet by a veeeeerrrrrrrry large margin) must pay for the best equipment and planning.

Now, do we launch a pre-emptive strike on Iran?  Of course not.  That would be foolish.  The US should continue down the road of economic sanctions, pursuing self-sufficient fuel reserves and alternatives to oil, building a coalition of civilized nations to condemn Iran's aggressive rhetoric especially in regards to Israel's existence, and promoting soft revolution from within Iran by its own people.  If Iran comes within a year of nuclear power capable of supporting a bomb, Israel will bomb them 25 years into reverse...and rightfully so.  Israel's a big boy that can take care of itself.  : ok:

Bush is stupid...but he's not stupid enough to give the orders to invade Iran.  That's my $.02. 
 :peace:

No, not invade, but strike aerially.  Such strikes can be more easily sold to the public and then the administration would have a new, intense justification for continuing and extending their efforts in Iraq.  They would also drastically change the dynamic of the 2008 race.  Theres plenty of benefits to this course of action for an administration desperate to reclaim its relevance and avoid further losing its war, and with little to lose.

agreed.  no way even Bush would authorize an invasion involving troops on the ground.  this would be as low US casualty as possible, as far from civilians as possible (I hope, last thing we need is more footage for an AQ recruitment video).  This admin needs a victory - an air war/attack is the surest thing the US would have to one.
 

ww2, pearl harbor - i agree with you.  I don't think draft dodging was really an issue back then though.

vietnam, iraq - thats not defending your country - its being sent to the meat grinder.  if you're a soldier, you don't get to pick the wars, its your job to do as you are ordered.  if you're a civilian of age who could be drafted and you 110% disagree with the war (in my two examples, wars that never should have been started), don't you think standing up, saying that out loud, risking jail time, is actually courageous?  I think taking a stand for what you believe in takes the biggest balls.

As for duty and patriotism, I would guess the kids who signed up after 9-11 to fight in Afghanistan didn't think they would wind up fighting a bullshit war in Iraq.

If you want to talk cowards, I think we should point the finger at all the chicken hawks who are for this war but won't sign up to fight for it.  not believing in a war and not wanting to fight for it - that makes sense to me.  being for a war and telling someone else to go fight it - thats just a giant pussy/hypocrite.

How is going to canada taking a stand?  To me that seems like aversion.  Secondly, this country is a democracy, so any military action we take is validated through the democratic process.  For the draft to be active again, Congress and thus Democracy would be responsible.  So the elected leaders of this nation would be condoning the war/military action.  If you're that much of a rebel, don't register for the draft.  Don't reap the benefits of being registered and the blessings this country offers if you're just going to run.

I'm sorry, but no one remembers those who fled to Canada during Vietnam as heroes or patriots.  If not for that moron Carter, they'd still be considered criminals - instead they're considered cowards.  Plenty of people disagreed with the war, but they answered the call and went anyway.

one of those draft dodgers became president.  And I don't mean Wubya  :hihi:

and surprise, you missed my point entirely.  theres a reason the vietnam war was so unpopular, theres a reason people dodged the draft.  theres a reason that actual soldiers are refusing to go to iraq to fight (while i don't think they are justified, i can sympathize with where they are coming from, but they should still fulfill their duty).  I'm talking about civilians being forced to fight a bullshit war.

and you completely avoided my comment about the iraq war chicken hawks.

Bigtime.

first off you need to re-read my post and the post of others SECOND you don't know shit about the people that were Vietnam. Not even the heros were remembered cause when they came home from all that bullshit our own american people came home to angry liberals hippies and the like spitting on them cause they had to kill some children. Children with bombs attached to them so they had reason to kill them. (provided there are many more reasons, but that one comes to mind)

why don't you go watch the history channel or know your facts before you try to start something about a war that happeded years ago.

btw, I think your safe though, because canada will never have a war. They'll just surender it to what ever country comes knockin' first. Maybe not in the west part of canada but the east part where all the french live, they'll be begging for a pen to sign over there land before those pussys ever pick up a gun.

What is there to say?  I can't expect congressman and Presidents to go off to war.  Do I get pissed off everytime I see some rich college Republican talk about how important the war is while they sip on their Natti light, you bet your ass.  As I told you all many times, I was against the war from day 1.  I was a CR, and I constantly argued with the chickenhawks.  I don't address it because it isn't worth addressing.  Just like I don't respect liberals who have never served and their opinions on how the military should be ran.  I call bullshit on both sides.  The Hannity's who are too good to serve and would never dare dawn the uniform and the Moore's who view anyone who does bear the uniform as morons who were duped.

To make it perfectly clear, I take issue with anyone who wants to send our military into harms way without ever have been part of that institution.  However that may be, that doesn't necessarily negate their arguments and make them wrong.

Man are you full of it.

um no, if bush came out and said he was behind 9-11, i'd believe him.  hes not though.  with all the people who hate bush and his admin out there, don't you think a truly credible voice (not the site admins of your silly sites) would come out with some information that was leaked to him/her that bush was behind it?

when does this surprise come?  Is it like waiting for the rapture or something?  :rofl:

No, it's just easier for you to peg me as a neo-con.  My reasons for being against the war are different than yours and in some aspects not altruistic at all.  However, I have no problem with us being there now and hope we're allowed to do what is best for the region and ultimately the US.  I was against the rhetoric and rationale of the popular anti-war crowd in late '02 and early '03.  I was also against the "freedom fry" bullshit as well.  Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and I couldn't care less who has nuclear weapons.  Because Iraq posed no direct threat to us, I didn't care to invade, but I'll admit that I thought it would be alot easier to win then it has been.  But go ahead, pull some quote of mine from 3 years ago and you'll see that I've been saying the same thing since I joined this board.

I have no real interest in going to war with Iran now.  An air war won't win the fight and that last thing I want is boots on the ground there - that will be world war 3.  However, as soon as I feel Iran poses a threat to us, you bet your ass I'll support a full invasion.  One of us is sensible and doesn't let personal ideology blind us.  Here's a hint, it isn't you.

so its worth addressing "the pussy" who won't fight a bullshit war when called upon to do so, but NOT worth addressing the ACTUAL pussy who is all talk when it comes to fighting a bullshit war but wants someone else to do all the fighthing?

I don't recall seeing any chest bangers here that haven't signed up.  I have seen a surplus of posters saying they'd flee to Canada as if that is something to be proud of.  In terms of who is the bigger pussy, I would say the one who actually runs away is the bigger pussy than the one who just stands there and talks shit.

so you can only criticize people on this board and not members of the media or your favorite bloggers/talking heads (why doesn't coulter sign up?). 

i think the one running is at least acting, the one who is talking is, well, just talking.  actions speak louder than words.  cliche, but true.

name one person who has said they would flee to canada btw?!?!!?

There is no "surplus" of posters claiming they'd flee up north, you're lying again.



So I guess that means you're only one notch below the draft dodgers on the pussy meter huh?


You are, at least you lie like they do.

I'm all about going to Canada.  All the poutine, figgy duff and cod fish you can fathom, plus the awesome Canadian women!  Viva La PEI.

Yeah, refusing to risk your life so that the big guys can stuff their pockets is real cowardly.

In fact, refusing a Government order is the definition of cowardice to you, is it not?

TEHRAN: Iran's leaders maintained their defiance of the West on Sunday, with the president announcing that Tehran had 3,000 active centrifuges to enrich uranium and the supreme leader appointing a war veteran and ideological hard-liner as the new commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards.

While the details of the announcements did not signal any significant change of course for Iranian policy, the pairing of the messages appeared intended to reaffirm Iran's refusal to back down in the face of pressure from the United States over Tehran's nuclear program and its role in Iraq, political analysts in Iran said.

MORE (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/02/asia/iran.php)

Iran-Contra.  U.S. sold arms to Iran to finance the Contras in Nicaragua.  It happened under the Reagan administration.

Dang  :(

We did sell arms to Iran, not nuclear technology.

we sold anti-tank missles, and maybe a few F-14 parts.

I don't think muslims (they're americans too, hello mutli-culturaism) are very keen on going there. :hihi:

USA doesn't get officialy military invaded,
-people running to Canada if invaded/attacked would maybe be cowards as you say, protesting against war however is nothing but sensible.

The soldiers are doing nessesary work still, give that the situation is as it is...what is right at this stage has both complicated pros and cons.

No one is reaping benefits of USA while in Canada either, people are simply revolting against desicions that they never participate in.
The rest of the world didn't participate either, I bet they are cowards too?

If I bombed a muslim church, some people may call me out on it. :P
I don't tho even when I am against (nothing against sheltering refugees for humanitary reason or anything rasistic) having that/them in Scandinavia.

The Norwegians that did sabotage against the occupying Nazi's got awarded medals for their resistance, and the Iraks? Here's for peace :peace:

What part don't you get?  I have no control of when I go over.  And if I were to go over right now that would in no way change any of the lies and hate that come out of your mouth.  I could be a liar and claim I've been over there 5 times and you wouldn't know the difference.  I got commissioned well into the war and fully expect to be sent over.  How dare you belittle me because I haven't been sent over yet, as if that is something I can control.  Here's a challenge to you big J, find a way for me to go over (I'm sure you know alot about the military) and I'll sumbit the fucking paperwork tomorrow.  You will of course make some off-color remark and avoid the issue entirely. 

Frankly I don't care what some college dropout has to say about me and world affairs.  You were too fucking dumb to get through something as easy as college so I have no interest in what website you've gone to today to feed you your opinion.

What are you talking about?

I said that Americans who run to Canada to avoid the draft are cowards.  They reaped all the pleasures and protections of being an American citizen, but as soon as their country called on them, they run away.   And Canada sure as hell reaps benefits from America.  No one fucks with Canada because the US is right below them.  Canada can spend all its money on social programs and not on Defense because the US protects them via proxy. 

I think you have a big GOP crush on me, that's what I think.

More than anything it appears that you are trying to get me to release more personal info to stick your "SLC" folder. Ain't gonna happen. You have my name, I'm sure you can make good use of the internet, and find out more about me on your own.

Anyway, like I said, all I see is a tough talker who still has not put his money where his mouth is. You berate those you view as "cowards" while doing nothing more than posting on the forum along side of them. You're a complete and utter fraud.

Ask for a transfer to an Eng. Batt. Those dudes see more shit in a day than most do in a lifetime. I don't know what your MOS is, but they are always looking for a few good sappers

I'm not an Engineer officer.  Although I was a 12C when I was enlisted.

What fuck are you talking about?

It's the Government who've been reaping the damn benefits, being on the end receiver of a hard working populace. It's the people who work their ass off for too little wage so that the suits can start another bullshit war while they preach lies and propaganda to justify it. It's the people who see their pensions being stolen and gambled on the stock market, so that some slick executive can buy another boat for what his tax reliefs didn't cover. It's the people who get fucked over by invisible authorities who won't return their calls when all they try to do is make ends meet. It's the people being refused medical treatment after paying health insurance for 50 years.

And for what? So they can put their lives on the line in distant countries for causes they don't even understand. So they can come home to a pad on the shoulder and nickel medals on the chest in exchange for the missing leg. So they can end up in a state facility with rats and drug addicts and then they die.

And guess what, they do. They do all these things and few complain, all in the name of patriotism.

So who the fuck are you to have an opinion what so ever? A hypocrite who's never been in combat, but still finds the nerve to call for others to support yet another war.

I call it utter bullshit. A fuckin' cupcake wrapped in brown paper too stupid to see it's just another tool.

Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist and utter coward.? I enlisted, I got commissioned, what more can I say.? If I were in Iraq right now, your opinion wouldn't change and your entire post would be one sentence shorter.? I could have people on here posting the exact same thing I did who have been to Iraq 2 times, and you'd call them naieve and fooled by an invisible man behind a corporate desk.? I suggest you seek professional help because that much paranoia isn't healthy.

Edit:  I just want to point out that I've said I've never been to Iraq.  There's alot more countries out there than Iraq.

No one fucks with Canada because were a rather peaceful country, and don't give other countries a multitude of reasons to fuck with us.

Ok, I'm sure being a US ally and being right next door to the US has nothing to do with it.  Canada doesn't have to muddy its hand in international waters because the US does it for them.  Get over it, Canada might as well be a US territory.

US does what for them?

Id hope not.

Life is nice and uncomplicated here in Canada ;)

I'm not saying Canada isn't a nice place.  It's beautiful.  All I'm saying is that Canada has the luxury of all its social spending because they're best friends with the biggest and toughest kid on the block.

Provides plenty of McJob workers who are scared of the draft.  :hihi:

Canada is and never will be anything like America. We, as a country promote peace and aid not nameless, faceless death and destruction that the US president is bent on for his own personal agenda. YOU know nothing of Canada or its citizens or you would shut the fuck up while you seem to be ahead. Stop digging yourself a deeper hole of what you know naught. I can't believe how ignorant you are if youbelieve anything of what you are spewing. Piss off and do your homework before you keep talking of Canada like you know what the fuck goes on here. Unlike the US, we take care of our citizens with health care and social assitance programs. We may have poor and downtrodden but our homeless rate is in the 10's of thousands lower then the US because the government is always ready and willing to care for the less fortunate. You know less then nothing. For the record, we could care less nor really give a shit about your US politics. Maybe you could explain, in layman's terms , how exactly we benefit from the US? oh , and kiss my Canadian ass

You forgot to tell him to pull your finger... :hihi:

I think its pretty sad that the US has some of the best doctors and hospitals in the world, and virtually no one can afford to utilize the services offered by either.

You really need to pull your head out of your ass...it is only small minded people like you whom think that way. WE pride ourselves on staying out of your business..but you just won't let us..maybe it is you who need us to make you look good?? fuck you

exactly! how can one of the richest countries in the world make so many suffer needlessly? it is beyond me. The US really needs to start at home to fix their issues before the start trying to fix everyone else's!

You see, Dim's view of this country (funny how that comes out huh?) is that the people who can not afford health insurance deserve what they get. That in America, you either "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" or go fuck yourself. If that means dying in the street like a dog, then that is what it means. In his view, people are unable, or too lazy, to make enough money, then they don't deserve health care (a basic human need IMO), and we should not have to pick up the tab for those who do.

Well Pharmo, all that amounts to at the end of the day is just greed.

well said. If Bush cared one iota for his citizens of his great country, he'd take care of them and make basic health care a ssimple fact of life. It is so sad from our point of view to see so many suffer...I actually have American friends who, abet illegally, recieve health care here in Canada...FREE of charge, their children are happy and healthy because they are cared for by a country that isn't their own!

For once you didn't lie or distort my view.  You didn't wrap it up nice and pretty, but yea you basically nailed it on the head.

And Lisa, you're homeless numbers are tens of thousands lower not becuase of your government, but because you're 1/10th the size of the US.

There is no reason why policies working here in Canada can't work in the US.

You take a formula working on a smaller scale, and reconfigure it to work just as effectively at a larger scale.

All it really requires is a re-evaluation of priorities.

It couldn't work in the US and people expect their taxes to stay the same.  Obviously you can cut certain things and add that in, but most Americans want to have their cake and eat it too.  No where does our constitution guaruntee health care as a right.  I don't want to pay money out of my pocket so others can have free health care.  Health care is included in my job.  I make a lil over 50k a year and I personally can't afford to be supporting others.  If the government wants to create a health care system that is entirely paid for by those who use it, fine by me.  They could even create government hospitals with "charitable" doctors who want to make 1/8th of what their private practice counterparts do.  The only problem then is people will still bitch that they're not getting equal care.  America has the best hospitals and doctors because we're a private system and making it socialized would flood the hospitals with colds and bruises because a doctor will write an excuse for anything.

I'm glad most Canadians are happy with their system, that's how it should be.  I for one don't care for waiting lists to get on a waiting list.  I'll be even more blunt - I don't want welfare mothers clogging up the healthcare system and taking valuable resources just so they can live to be 80 and suck up more govt money. 

again, you have no idea what you are talking about. When was the last time you were in Canada? when was the last time and friend or family or remote relative of yours waited for health care in this country. I will not be the first to say that it isn't perfect, but it works. Free basic health care is where Bush needs to start...at the least. Your ignorance of this country is astounding...go back to the books or look it up on the internet to find we are nothing like you nor ever will be. While you are at it, check your stats again. Even if we had the 300 million that you have, rest assured the government would make dame sure there was help for whomever wanted it. Please stop before you embarrass yourself further in any Canadian eyes here...you sir, are an ignorant,pigheaded redneck, go back to your family for some more inbreeding,maybe someday one of you will get a clue. I certainly hope you get to go to war soon...put your thoughtless thoughts and ignorance where your mouth supposedly is

haha, oh Lisa you really are a retard.? My uncle lived in Calgary for several years, so I know the canadian health care system well.? But I must ask, why did you quote my post.? Nothing you said was a response to my own, but rather a rant telling me how good Canada is and how bad America is.

Oh and sweetheart, Bush has nothing to do with our health care - we aren't a dictatorship.   Any change like that would have to come through the democratic congress and we all know that they've been keeping good on their promises.  It's gonna be great in 2008 when a Republican is elected to the white house again because the Democrats can't get organized and pull their heads from their asses.  Running Hillary is going to be dumber than running Kerry.

But since we're kind of on the subject of other countries.? Who else thinks it's awesome that all these countries have been electing conservative leaders.? I for one sure as hell do : ok:.

I quoted it because you haven't a clue. Having a ficticious uncle in Calgary is not the whole of Canada. If you knew anything at all, you would know how it differs from province to province. each province has their own strengths and weaknesses. The only 'retard' as you would say, is you...that is if 'retard' meant 'ignorant redneck'. I have lived for many years on both sides of the border and never once have said America is Bad ::)...but through experience and life I have made my own assumptions...too bad you cannot say the same...go live with your uncle for a bit, for fear of being called a draft dodger I doubt you will...only then can you ever make a true referance of what you speak. Again, you know nothing, you like to think you do but again, embarrassing to only you ..infact I am embarrassed for you and your ignornat assumptions. Any kindly Canadian here will feel the same. Too bad there isn't more here to jump down your throat and correct your ridiculous thoughts.be gone with you...you are a fraud and a stalker, nothing more, do us all a favour and leave befor some other innocent person becomes a victim of your attentions. You are nothing more then mere soil under my heel.

haha, little dramatic don't you think.  People have to wait longer in Canada for medical procedures.  There are waiting lists to get on waiting list.  You can't deny that.  When it comes to health care, I want it as quickly as possible.

And really, can we honestly put a price tag on saving another human being's life?

Its like Merck & Co. Inc donating $200,000,000+ worth of prescriptions drugs that save lives, and then bitch about how their "generosity" amounts to a serious financial loss for them :-\

Call me a selfish asshole, but I don't like the idea of being forced to spend my money on someone else.  I'm all about charity, there are more charitable donations in this country than in any other country.  If health care is so important to voters in America, put it to a vote.  The second you explain to people that it's not really free and the middle class will have to support the poor, it'll get shot down.  Simple as that.  The Democrats have the power now, let's see what they do.

Virtually every waiting list is arranged in order of importance, the way it should be.


If not selfish, than extremely greedy, yes.

Greed is what drove America to greatness.

again, you ignoramus, you are not doing your research. Please practice a little more do dilligence and less hearsay.
In the last year alone I have broke my leg,total dislocation of my ankle,two surgeries and physiotherapy, my mother has major health issues, quintuple bypass, subsequent compounding issues,dialysis and many weeks and months in hospital,father has had surgery for cancerous lesions,subsequent chemotherapy and additional surgery......no one had to wait, for anything or any procedure. No one has any form of health insurance other then our government funded Ohip...at a cost of 0$....some places or townships or other provinces may have a small wait time but it coincides with the extremity of the problem.Please fuck off now and go try to goad someone else with your plain ignorance.

Hey Walter, did you ever read F. Scott Fitzgerald's book, "The Great Gatsby"?

You might find its message to be of interest ;)

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/The-Great-Gatsby-F-Scott-Fitzgerald/9780743273565-item.html?ref=Search+Books%3a+'The+Great+Gatsby'

IN your narrow little redneck mind, yes...if Great is what you want to call it. You never bother to look in your own backyard or anyone else's or any other country's backyard, you have blinders on and will never fully comprehend the depth of your ignorance until you do. Grow the fuck up...some bug military guy you are..seems to me you got there by kissing ass because it certainly isn't on world/life experience.

...and is what's causing so many of its problems, now.

You're a selfish asshole.

Is the state of the country today what you call greatness?

When? During Vietnam?

Nah, it was the mid 90s.? He's a lawyer and was in charge of labor relations for a company there.? Now he's one of the VP for Leer.? Does quite well for himself.

Haha nicely played.

Get real, America isn't a great country....pretty far from it.
I live in pretty much a paradise on earth (unlike you), free health-care + private clinics, same with schools and eldery care...just huge taxes.

It's all political pressure from USA, depends what Iran do how this progress.

That's a pretty fucking shitty thing to say about someone's home.

It's a fact, acording to FN and several other studies. It is in that sense I say it incase you misunderstand :peace:

Truth can be pretty shitty, but if it helps, his is almost as bad.

Oh please, Scandinavia has NOTHING to complain about compared to the rest of the world. :P

They just increase the pressure on Iran-
I doubt and I really hope not that we ever see the attacks, rather than seeing better diplomatic solutions there :peace:

This isn't about studies.  I have no quarrel with you saying that things like socialized medicine or free higher education are good things, but there's no reason to equate the lack of those with an insult about an entire country.

I live in the US.  It has problems, but that doesn't mean it isn't a great country.  Perfect?  Of course not.  But millions of people immigrate here, because the quality of life is better than it is in a lot of other places. 

I guess what I'm saying is that there is more to being "great" than any one or two features, be they extraordinary healthcare, education, wealth, or military power. 

I agree, it wasn't ment as an insult either. Sure it is a great country to live?in compared to Somalia, Irak etc :peace:

OK, no problem.  It can be difficult to always know what someone means or how they mean it, on the net.

wow i cant beleive i missed this half of the thread......... canada bashing is what I love..... but hey its the bashing of the basher that i love the most!

Canada is America's hat!

why cause we cover up that bald spot? or cause we cover of the messy hair so no one really sees it casue the hat looks so good?

No, because Canada, as our hat, combined with our fake beard (Mexico) provide an ample disguise for when we need to sneak over and bomb something.

    Ha Ha this thread went from the 3-day plan to knock out Iran's military to yelling at each other at the border of 2 countries that all you needed was a drivers lic. to pass through legally.  Oh After we make fun of each others countries we'll sit next to each other and enjoy a baseball, football, basketball, soccer and of course a hockey game.