Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I wanna sort this out once and for all.  By the end of this thread I want a decision to be made - and I want it to be the right one.  We'll even vote on it if we have to.

So who's the best?  I'm guessing you'll all be thinking Pele - he scored an incredible 1290 goals in 1380 games and all at a time when defenders were basically allowed to kick you as much as they pleased.  Still, it has to be taken into account that fitness levels were different back then and the game wasn't so technical.  Obviously there's no way of telling how Pele would stand in the modern game but, fuck it, let's theorise!  It's unfair not to take this stuff into account.

Maradonna was brilliant, but he's not my choice.

Muller scored more goals than Pele - 1455 goals in 1204 games.  That's all I know about him but it's interesting that nobody ever considers him to be one of the very best.  He must have been pretty damn good!

Zidane?  ...the French probably think so.  I remember how good he was but I don't think he's up there really.

So what about Ronaldinho??  Here we have the single most incredible player I have ever seen.  He's consistently brilliant and has won both the World Cup and the Champions League, scoring wonderful goals along the way in both competitions.  The fact that he was poor in the last World Cup will probably cost him points but don't forget his performance against England in 2002.  Maybe he hasn't matches Pele in World Cup performances but that's not necessarily what this game is about - it's about finding the best.


I think the best is Ronaldinho, but it's a little unfair cause i've seen more of him than Pele.

I'm gonna have to go with van basten  ;)

In my opinion there's no such thing as the best player of all time. Fotball changes, there's no way to tell if yersteday's players would cope with today's pace and defences.

 ?And another thing, a team has many positions, not only attacking, spectacular players are good players. ?How can Ronaldinho be the best player ever??? I don't even consider him the best player in the world today. Sure, he has all the tricks and the spectacular goals, but he's really really far away from a complete player. I mean, look at Steven Gerrard. Why is Ronaldinho considered better than him? The man passes, tackles, scores goals, breaks up attacks, makes chances for his team mates and can play virtually anywere on the pitch. I't have him over Ronaldinho in my swuad anyday

You mean the one where he scored a fluke and got sent off?

Forgot about that red card.  I don't think his goal was a fluke anymore - he has since proved that he's definately capable of doing that kind of thing on purpose.

About strikers - that was a fair point.  Maybe Someone like Maldini should be in the running too, who knows.  I'd love to have Gazza in there but it's just not true.

Ronaldinho is definately better than Gerrard, as good a player as he is.  The tricks he does and not pointless - they give him a huge advantage over other players.  Gerrard's finishing is excellent but i'd say Ronaldinho's is better, and both players are brilliant passers.  Yeah Gerrard can tackle but then so can Lee Carsley.

As for "there's no such thing as the best player of all time" - well that's just no fun!!

I agree it's difficult to compare players from different eras, though it is fun trying.  Basically, the players in this discussion are those that have been so dominant that it appears often at times as if they're playing against children.  Of those that I have seen play, I would include Maradona, Zidane, Maldini, Bergkamp, and Ronaldinho.  From that group, I think I'd go with Zidane (though Ronaldinho may likely surpass him when all is said and done; IMO, he hasn't yet).  Assuming we agree that Pele is the best old-timer (most dominant international player of his era), I would say Zidane loses that comparison.  So my answer is Pele.

So you see, the best player in the world depends on who's watching. I have a more pragmatic view on football, and Gerrard's all-round ability makes me love him more than anyone. Ronaldinho's tricks are indeed not pointless, but BY FAR not as effective as they look ! I mean, lots of times, he does some tricks with the ball, then gives a harmless 5 yard backwards pass, and everyone's sooooo impresssed. So he's a more mature Cristiano Ronaldo for me (Cristiano has the potential to become even better, in my opinion).

  Oh, and let me add Ryan Giggs on the list of the best players of all time. What a player ! The pace, the skill, the effectiveness, the all round ability...the man is pure genius !!! If only he played for a better national side...

There's a lot of choices some due to recent competitions or whatever might find themselves less considered as the best.

The two main footballers that always get talked about are Maradona and Pele, I couldn't pick ability-wise between them although I've alway favoured Pele, I don't really think a drug cheat deserves the greatest footballer of all time award. Like you said though Danny, Muller has an awesome strike record as does a Hungarian who died 2 weeks ago Puskas(?) he averaged 0.99 goals a game in his career, with more goals than games whilst playing for Real Madrid (he played over 800 games for Real I think) so both of those should be considered.
Ronaldo is the world cups top scorer of all time, for that reason alone he should be amongst the best.
Ronaldinho is clearly a talent, probably the most gifted player of the last decade, but the very best will stand out even in a team of excellence on the biggest of occasions he's yet to truly do that imo. I'm not saying he won't though.
Beckenbauer usually pops up in these kind of discussions too. As do Cruyff and Van Basten.

I'm going to say Pele as unoriginal as that is, it's hard to say how good a peak of career Pele would be in modern day football, but for his time he was way ahead of the rest of the world. The only people who came close were other Brazilians at that time (Garincha, Jarzinho....) who were also excellent.

Steven Gerrard

Liverpool are a one man team -? he gets us to the champions league each year by himself, he's worth 50 points a season, can bag 30 goals from midfield, defends, attacks, starts and ends just about every attack going, inspires the team onwards and doesnt ever stop - he single handely won the FA cup with a leg injury

No one is better at ranged shots, he can cross pass, tackle and score. He isnt a thug and genuinely seems to care about football and not the paycheck

Ronaldinho can do the tricks but not week in week out, and isnt as influential to the team as Gerrard is - infact Ronaldinho only shows up when it suits him.

I wouldn't swap Gerrard for anyone, no, not even Frank Lampard :rofl:

as for Pele etc - puleeessse, have u seen the standard of 60's and 70's football? With their diet of pies and fags they could hardly sprint, the '66 world cup final is like some pub team at work.

good old george best, even pele said he was the greatest, even when drunk he could run rings round players  ;D

as for steve gerrard, hes pretty shit when he plays for england

Its such a hard question

For me it would be either Maradona or Best

Pele's record speaks for itself but he played in alot of great teams, as where the other two were defining players in the teams they played in. Also Pele never made it to the European market to judge. However Pele is the ultimate footballer a great man and great player. No Drugs No scandals . . you get the idea. He is who football wants you to think is the greatest ever and anyone who says he is . . can't be told they are wrong.

Best is and was the most talented player ever to play the game, whether he wasted that talent isn't really the question when he was there and on that pitch there was no player harder to deal with.

Maradona is another like Best a talent beyond talent. A player that despite his downfalls had the ability to win a game in a second. He did it wherever he went and importantly did it in south america and Europe as well as internationally and for me thats what gives him the edge over Pele.

i think its impossible to say that Ronaldinho is the greatest player and i think Zidane has to held in higher regard due the consistancy of his career. If ronaldinho continues in the form he is in for another 5 or 6 years then he has to be in the 'Best Ever' Catergory, but at 26 years old he has only been 'great' for 3 years.

For me its George Best . . But maradona is v close behind

Yeah i remember a story that Man Utd were playing 2-touch 5-a-side in training and Bestie would control it and play it off a player and he would do that all the way up the small pitch till he scored.

And that was against players like Bobby Charlton who are legends in their own rights.

Just a fantastic player. And its a shame that people (outside of Manchester & N Ireland) only remember the drinking coz he was a fantastic player and icon

I say Pele, followed closely (no specific order) by M?ller (as you all said an incredible scorer), Beckenbauer (the only man who won the world cup as a player and as a coach, I think thats an unbelievable achievment), Maradonna, Best and Eusebio.
The best active player I?d say is Ronaldinho, he?s incredibly talented.

Bend it like Beckham  :rofl:

Based on that, Puskas should be mentioned here, the guy was a real all time great. No one has a better goals per game ratio than Puskas.

Ronaldo at his best was better than Ronaldinho.

He was faster, sharper, stronger and his finishing was (still is) devastating. He knew where the goal was.

Injury hampered his career, as did lazyness to some extent, but Ronaldo at his best played the best football that I've ever seen played.

I would take him over any player ever.

except muller

very true - that year or two he had at the very top, free of injury - damn i want to watch some of his ''greatest hits'' games again

..and where is the next Ronaldo??

Only have to look at the good ole U.S.A. for the best in any sport. Its all about L.D.!!!? :rofl:?

Can we please get some decent ball in states, I'm begging? :crying:? :smoking:

That's a fair point actually, I'd forgotten how good he was until I saw this video. His speed has to been seen to be believed. Shame he's faded the last few years, an entire career playing like this and I think people would have a hard time arguing he wasn't the worlds greatest.

 http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4506085155667669772&q=ronaldo

I'd take that over Ronaldinho anyday.

difficult question as football has evolved over the years.  pele in the 60'/70's, gerd muller of germany in the 70's, maradona from the 80's, the ruud gullits the van bastens, shearer from the 90's and of course ronaldinho from the present.  plus all the rest i have missed. 

i don't think you can choose any one player as the best of all time due to fact that football has changed so much over the decades.

Ronaldo is the best player I have seen in my lifetime.  Ronaldinho is WAY overrated.

I don't think he's overrated at all.  He delivers the goods all the time and his passing, vision, etc. is incredible.  If he's not in the running for 'best footballer ever' he's still the best player in the World right now.

Different eras produced different styles of players.

Any list of all-time great players would have to include:-

Alex James - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_James_(footballer) (I'm a Gooner, so I think I'm entitled to be a little biased)

Pele

Garrincha

Ferenc Puskas

Alfredo Di Stefano - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfredo_Di_St%C3%A9fano

Diego Maradona

Franz Beckenbauer

Johan Cruijff

George Best

Zinedine Zidane

All I know is that during the World Cup, when a hero was needed, Ronaldo was the one who always came through.

We could do with a Barcelona fan who has seen both Ronaldinho and Ronaldo at their peaks form, they could offer a fair comparison. Where's Ignatius?

Not the 2006 World Cup or 1998 Final.

But they got to the 98 Final because of whom?  When Ronaldinho was the main guy this year, they didn't get quite as far.

Also, winning the Golden Boot means a lot.

The Golden Boot means you scored a few goals in a couple of games. I haven't seen anyone mention Gary Lineker or Just Fontaine in this thread so far.

Maradona is the best football player of history, no doubt about that. He's the only player in the world that has won a World Cup by himself. Pele used to play with another 10 ''peles'' (Jairzinho, Rivelinho, Tostao, Gerson, Carlos Alberto, Didi, all insanely great players) and he NEVER played in Europe, where big players need to play to proove how good they are.

Maradona made Napoli win 2 scudettos, one Italy Supercup, one UEFA cup... Napoli!!! After 80 years of fails! Not Milan, not Juventus, not Inter... Napoli!!

Maradona showed it all in Mexico 86. Ask english people if they remember him  :hihi:

Then, four years later, he made Argentina finalist playing in one foot (his ankle had the size of a watermellon) with 10 dogs playing with him. Alemao is still trying to stop him  :rofl:

The world cup in USA 1994 ended when Maradona was suspended. No one remembers that world cup.

Ronaldinho? Did Ronaldinho played the last World Cup? Where is Ronaldinho against Argentina? Where is Ronaldinho against Real Madrid? Where was Ronaldinho against France in the last world cup?

AFTER Maradona, the best football player I have seen is Rivaldo, and then Zinedine Zidane, maybe Ronaldo (the brazilian one, not the portuguese joke)

^ Your quip about Pele never playing in Europe is absolutely ridiculous. ::)

Short & Sweet....  Alfredo Di Stefano - The World's Greatest All-Round Player, NUFF SAID.

Go ask Maradona who was the greatest player ever. Alfredo Di Stefano.

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Bleachers/7429/DiStefano.htm

My vote goes to Jerry Rice

the greatest players also have to have integrity. something maradona lacked.

the game against england will never be remembered for the great goal he scored, but for the fact he cheated.

Sorry the fact that you played in the world cup means bugger all. George Best never played in a world cup . . and for me is the greatest ever.

i think its between maradona and best to be honest. but anyone can look good if they use their hands. .. he was probally smacked off his face. . . he probally thought it was the hand of god. haha

i honestly cant speak for di stefano having not seen that much of him.

But of all the players i've seen the most talented players are Best and Maradona.

In recent times Ronaldo, Zidane and Ronaldinho are the only choices. Ronaldo is a great player and i dont think a player has ever looked more impressive in my life time than when i saw him playing at Barcelona. Zidane was probally the most consistant player i've seen in the last ten years. Ronaldinho has all the tricks and is a marvellous player. i think he has to do whats he's doing for another 2 or 3 seasons to be in the 'Best ever' category.

i think your wrong, understandably english/british people will remember it for the handball, but most others will remember it for the great goal

You're absolutly wrong. That game was a Maradona monologue.

The whole world remembers that match because it had the best goal in World Cups history, and the best Maradona EVER.

Maradona did not ever need to cheat to achieve his goals. He won Mexico 86 on his own, and he reached Italy '90 not only in his own, also in one leg, because he was severely injured in his ankle. Maradona's cocaine addiction was counterproductive to play football. That has nothing to do with ''cheating'': he was (still is) a cocaine addict, he IS a sick man.

For exaple: Brazil won the Mexico 70 world cup with 11 extraordinary playes. The world remembers Pele, but Brazil was truly a dream team. Maradona did something harder: he reached two finals on his own, with another 10 mediocre players. He also took a ''Serie B'' team like Napoli and he won, again on his own, 2 scudettos, an Italy Supercup and a UEFA cup. Can you name another argentine player in Mexico 86? Can you name another Napoli player between 1987-1991?

He also could have won, this time with a greater team, the USA94 world cup. The ''Ephedrine Incident'' was the end of that world cup, the most forgettable world cup ever, without true stars.

I think you don't understand the meaning of ''integrity''.

The real thing is that the big step to be considered one of the best players of all times is winning a World Cup. Something that Michel Platini lacks, same for Johan Cruyff, Best, Roberto Baggio and lots of other big players. That's why the world will remember forever Zidane and his two finals, Ronaldo, Maradona, Matthaus, Pele, etc.

I don't follow the sport closely at all, but I must say footballers do have some hot wives.

http://ko5.blogspot.com/2007/01/100-hot-footballers-wives.html

Maradona. Others had great players around them, maradona won the wc on his own. And the fact that he hates england may also play a part in my decision

Best players i've ever seen live was Brian Laudrup, then Cantona and then Gascoigne. They were all able to win matches, cups and leagues singlehandedly.

The fact that "Maradona won the World Cup on his own" proves that Football is A LOT harder these days...nowadays no player, no matter his talent, can do something like that, any player can be stopped with the right tactics.

The fact that "Maradona won the World Cup on his own" proves that he was an extraordinary football player. Just that. I should say that is a fact that there are no players like him right now.


3 great players, specially the last one.

I agree with the surname, but not with ''Brian''. I would say that Michael was the best danish player of all times, he was magical, and I remember when he was called ''enjoylaudrup'' while playing in Barcelona. I also remember his outstanding performance againts Brazil, in France 98 quarterfinals, where his brother scored.

Cantona was another great player, a little nuts, but a very skilled and powerful striker. A king without crown, he suffered the France footballistic bad time. I remember when he attacked a guy in the crowd with a kickboxing style.

And Paul Gascoigne was truly a genius. I love him, he showed all his skills in Italy 90. I've read that he had lots of problems with drugs or alcohol or something like that, but he was a great player.

I think it has to be someone of these 2
Franz bekembaur (<--spell??) or Johan Cruyff