Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I tried to post this is the topic about Ron not recording on Chinese Democracy, but it was locked. 

Anyways, since he has stated that he will have any parts recorded on Chinese Democracy do you think he has even heard the entire album?  Since all they have played with him in the band is Madagascar, There Was a Time, Chinese Democracy, IRS, Better, and The Blues (correct me if I missed any) is there really any reason for him to hear any of the other songs?  What do you think?

Who cares?

No, he hasn't.

Bye.

propably rhiyad since it was in the setlist

Why the hell is everyone acting like a jerk to this guy?

It's a legit question. And yeah I think he has.. especally by now.

I'm pretty sure someone on MySpace asked him and Ron said he heard a couple songs through headphones on a CD player or something. He said he wasn't allowed to hear the whole album.

Forgive me if I'm wrong.

Ron came in at a Gilby Position, so technically he doesn't 'need' to hear the full album.? But I think it would be nice if Uncle Axl let him.

He's heard the songs he has to play a couple times, Axl is so protective he wouldn't give him his own copy, heck I don't even think Axl allows himself to keep a copy on him without a master lock sealing it.  ?

haha thanks Jack... its all good though, these guys don't like me because I don't kiss the dirt that Axl has pissed on. 

But if some one really got a myspace message from him like Russian Roulette said then that answers my question I suppose. 

yeah, he said something about learning them by listening to the songs through headphones on a computer

And some people shit talk the guy for not playing the solos just like or as good as bucket.  he heard them once through a lap top and couldn't figure them out on one listen and perfect them.  what do you guys expect.  he has the ideas down, but thats a poor move my management to not let him keep something with buckets solos on them.  now all these people bitch.

I hardly kiss the dirt that Axl has pissed on, my friend.  :hihi:

I'm not exactly the most positive fan you'll find.

I think it's because Ron is just being used by GN'R for their upcoming tour (and the European tour). They realized in order to go on tour they needed someone fast and they hit up Ron for the gig. I don't think he's really a permanent replacement, and I think after the dust from this tour settles and Axl retires to his mansion again for a number of years while we wait for Chinese Democracy 2: Hungarian Exposition, Ron will have returned to his solo work.

...... remember the lead singer of avenged sevenfold has a copy?

http://www.gnrnews.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=313#313

im surprised they havent leaked yet.

I hate how often nimrods post this. Obviously He cares or He wouldn't have asked, right? I know I'm curious about it as well. If you are too stupid to post something somewhat meaningful, why not go do something else.

More reason for me not to like the singer from AX7, that Jerk has CD

Look guys know one but Ron and a few others know whether he's heard it or not with 100 percent certainty.I read a myspace email reply he gave to someone saying that we're gonna love the songs.

My guess is by now....UM...YEAH!!

He's done a Euoropean tour with them and is about to embark on a massive world tour with GNR, you dont think that somewhere along the way someone played it to him.

personally i think ron has heard ALL the album.remember,he's gonna be endorsed as a member of GNR with the album being the only material.i dont think ron would sign up to GNR without hearin what the band has in stall for the future.its just silly to think a band member hasnt even heard the upcomin album ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?just my thoughts ?:peace:

I don't think he does.

He probably has the leaks we all have and like five or six other mis-tagged songs.

"LOL HEY U GUYZ DID U KNOWZ AXL WOWSE HE MADE A SDONG CALLED DA OKLAHOMA LOLZ IT SOUNDS DA TITS"

I doubt Axl would give him the full record.

I would think he has heard it especially if he is going to tour behind it. But he probrally doesnt have a copy of his own yet. Maybe the sheet music   :hihi:

I think this is exactly the reason that proves Ron is not gonna be perminately in that position. Ron, as friendly as he's been to us, I feel is another Gilby Clarke and is simply plugging a hole in the band, so it can move forward.

Maybe after they support CD, and go after their next album, possibly Izzy will fill the rest of the void, or someone new.

I just don't see Thal being perminate in this band like the others for some reason.

jmo

I think Ron has heard what Axl wants him to hear. 

I.E  He learns all gunners old stuff and the 5 or so new songs that they will play live.

I do beleave that he is just a touring musician.  I dont know who will take his place.

You can sorta pick up on this vibe when they play.  Sorta like when Paul played with them.   Dosnt seem right.

no, he has not heard it yet

100th time and counting........

Izzy?

Yeah, let nostalgia do the talking. Izzy, Robin and Richard (and most of the rest out there) can't play/write the parts people like Ron and Bucket can play/write.

If Axl is in any way interested in presenting a coherent new GNR (which I think he definately is by now) he will keep Ron. All this BS on how people can pick up the "Paul Huge vibe"?...? :no:

Last time I checked the two main figures in this band (Axl and Tommy) portrayed a warm attitude towards Ron (RaR). Furthermore, Paul didn't want to be a permanent member himself (because of the extensive touring that comes with it).

On topic: I think that by now, Ron has heard most of the new stuff...

-PEACE-

I dont think Ron has ever heard AFD.   Haha, just had to say that.

Anyways, I am a huge Buckethead fan, but what is all this talk about writting skills??   Ron and Buckethead and all the new players havnt written anything that has sold anything.  Anything that has caught on mainstream?  No...

The origanl players, where not the best players at first, but they new how to cut a grove.

Catchy shit that you can dance to and rock out to is hard to do.  None of the new members have proven this.

yeah thats true, you can be the fastest shreder in the world but that doesn't mean you can come up with a good solid rift that every one remebers.

I disagree, Ron's riff for MXC is pretty memorable. I love that damn riff lol. IMO, Ron looks like he fits right in with GNR, if fucking Richard and Robin would jam with him more, then it would fit more, all I ever see is them jamming together haha.

Yeah, its not like Ron is Richard Fortus? Knowhatimsayin.

Whatever world you live in, i'm not there. Maybe it's that distant chicken coupe in space with Bucket.

I'm here on the planet Earth, and to say Izzy, Robin & Richard can't play or WRITE the stuff Ron & Bucket have is just mind boggling.

Sure, maybe Ron & Bucket could give it a '2006 sound', but when do you get to the point and say what is and isn't Guns N' Roses? Besides, Axl writes most of the instrumental shit too, just like the old days, so what does it matter Ron & Bucket's ability. Why go after someone who doesn't fit the mold or vibe of a band, when they have no hand in what goes on anyway? Robin, Richard & Izzy are ten times the players Ron & Bucket are in Guns N' Roses. I'm not talking about their other work. Are they right for GNR? Personally, I like Ron, so yes for him, Bucket, a huge NO.

If Ron ends up becoming an official 'touring' guitarist, then I think all signs are gonna point to Izzy returning with GNR in the studio for the next album at least. Or, possibly Robin or Richard will do like Slash with the Illusion's, and do double guitar tracks, and keep Ron around as a 3rd guitarist for the live performances.

Yeah dude, you're right.

Last I checked Ron plays Patience and You Could Be Mine on a regular basis - both songs of which were written by one Mr. Izzy Stradlin.

I hate when people write idiotic things.  ::)

Thank you. I mean, i'm all for supporting who you like, but sometimes stuff just becomes illogical.? :hihi:

U mean a guy in the band hasnt even heard the CD?

Thats kind of fucked up...............

Does anyone have a clue...? Nope.
As for whether ron is sticking around, it looked like izzy would too, didnt it?
They were all quite nice about him at the time, til he was gone.
And if you read statements made by various ex members bout eachother over the years, they are almost biblical in their contradictions!
As for the point that none of the new guys has written good catchy "commercial stuff that has sold loads - is no one on this board really into any bands who sell relatively few albums...???? id find that impossible to believe. and just look at the pedigree of these new guys, they have all been around a while in acts that axl has a lot of respect for, obviously.

He doesn't... a friend of mine saw them at Rock City in Nottingham, and gave him a disc with all of the leaked demos and songs that were performed live.  He's heard exactly what we have.

if thats true, then that can mean only one thing: BUCKETHEAD is going to remain on the album? : ok:

Well. Fucking. Done.

Good point actually, that's what a lot of people forget. Just to prove the point I'm gonna go listen to The 'Mats.   : ok:
But back to the topic,  it seems BBF hasn't heard the new songs? maybe because when he joined they weren't all mixed? but who knows hey? ???

You people are talking about old news. We all know he only heard the stuff plated live or what was on the setlist up until last week.

NOW the real questions is this last week he did a chat on Roses Of Velvet and he had to leave that chat becuase he had to go rehearse, he was in CA and the band was going to start rehearsing that night for the 1st time after Krock fro the upcoming tour.? BBF has always mantained he has only heard what is played live up till then.

So has anybody heard from him since in emails, My money is on since then and up till the tour HE WILL BE PLAYING SOME NEW STUFF WITH THE BOYS. It is only logical (yes i know gnr does not do stuff normal) they will start preparing other songs possible some more old but I'm sure more new.? Forget about the last 10 f'd up years. This year GNR has done everything right.

I don't think they will be playing anything that we haven't already heard at least until CD comes out, and at this point, being so close, I'd like to leave it that way.  Out of the 13 songs, we've already possibly heard half the album, not in its final studio mix albeit.  I'd like to leave something for the imagination, and I'd guess that Axl would too. 

Lol, call me when you start making sense. Robin Richard and Izzy are ten times the players Ron and Bucket are in GNR?? If that version holds any water RiR IV shouldn?t have been canceled. Robin, Richard and Izzy CAN?T substitute for Ron and Bucket, it?s as obvious you are delusional, the players are just too different style-wise and the gap in technical abilities between those three and the two big B?s is miles wide.

The fact that Axl puts so much faith in substituting one of the worlds most well versed virtuosos with the other (two people who frequently got compared to each other), should tell you something about the necessity of Ron and the big influence Buckethead has on CD and inability of any of the other guys to do something similar. If Axl wanted a cheap trip down memory lane he could have added Izzy a whole lot earlier to the bunch. Now he?s just using him to raise credit with the older fans. To show that a key player of the old band supports this new thing.

Again, if Axl is interested in presenting a coherent new line up he will keep Ron. And I think he will. The fact that Ron is an ace producer and Axl could finally have somebody behind the buttons of a studio that actually is a band member, somebody who?s totally into the creative process, makes it even more plausible.


The original players where at it in a time this music could actually become mainstream. Chances are slim that GNR will ever have much mainstream appeal again, which is the same reason people like Buckethead aren?t likely to have much mainstream appeal as well. Look at Malmsteen who was huge during the 80?s and early 90?s, where is he know? I know where he is and he?s doing exactly the same as back then, does it have mainstream appeal? Buckethead and (especially) Ron have written tons of catchy stuff. Ron is actually known for being one of the few virtuosos who can write very accessible and catchy songs. If your only criteria to judge these players writing abilities is the amount of mainstream appeal, then you might as well stop wasting your time and call Axl and tell him to add a DJ and an MC (because that?s what?s mainstream).


Make sure to check CD?s liner notes as well and tell me how much of it was written by mr. Stradlin. If these players are forced by the circumstances to play mostly the old stuff it?s not their problem and it adds nothing to this discussion. It doesn?t say one iota in terms of how well Izzy could substitute for Ron and Bucket (which he never could). As a matter of fact, the fact that both Ron and Bucket played the shit out if Izzy?s songs, tweaking some of them (like nightrain) to a new level should tell you how assbackwards your comment is. If you hate it so much when people say idiotic things, then why are you spreading that kind of crap in this thread?

-PEACE-

The Other Thing that does not make much sense is saying that Ron can replace Bucket...
NO FUCKING WAY...

Ron may be able to play fast and some crazy cool stuff BUT he cannot make melodies like Bucket does.
The melody and feeling that Bucket expresses i haven't heard it in any Ron Solo CD.

Bucket is more talented composer than Ron IMO.

Yeah of course Izzy,Robin are nice songwtiters for GNR...But the main 2006 Sound in the Demos that we have heard? it comes from Bucket....Robin gives more of a really cool 80s/90s sound....So IMO GNR are not complete without Bucket on the new songs....Even Live, Ron Solos are just fill like Half the void from bucket departure...

Everytime I think about posting something I read Slipdisc's posts and they basically sum the whole situation up.



Now, that is just crossing the line......




Oh, shut up already, Mr. Broken Record.

i think that ron have heard the record..
he is a band member... obviously he wont be telling to people...
just imagine the 100000000000 mails everyday to him if he says that he have heard CD...

I would like to think that by now Ron has heard it, but who knows?

I can just picture Ron at the birthday party Axl had for him at his place.  After a few beers and increased confidence, Ron begins pleading with Axl to hear cd.  Ron says "come on W, it's my bithday."  Axl finally concedes with an "oh alright, but just this once."

BTW- I know Ron doesn't drink...Just saved a few extra posts for those of you that were to point this out.

Axl didn't have a birthday party for Ron at his place.

I wouldn't be so sure...Check his myspace emails or posts where he mentions that very fact, and how cool it was that the band, crew, families, etc. were there, while adding that 2 whirlwind days later he was back in Jersey.

**sighs**

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=36221.msg727779#msg727779

**sigh**

you're just so exasperated with me, the silly uninformed fan...

it was a BBQ the day PRIOR...Point is, he's been to GATHERINGS at AXL's house and I made a joke.  The joke was the relevant point to my post.

Not at all. I have better things to do than to take this kinda thing seriously. :)



I usually read the posts as a whole. And I made a little correction to your post, that was all. Don't get yer knickers in a twist...

^^ this guy knows his  shit.

ohh i fucking agree! cant wait to hear buckets work!

Don't worry oneway, I knew to what you were referring.

All good...I should know by now that my sarcasm doesn't travel well across the internet....Insert eyeroll icons

oneway 23, I wonder what was the gathering for.
quite big party and MR and mrs foot traveled all the way from Nj?


Ron was reported to have said he heard just several new songs at sanctuarys but that was in may/june.

they didn't travel up to la just for the party, they were there already because the band rehearse in LA for the upcoming tour..

and yeah by now he has prolly heard the record if they have rehearsed any new songs....

Maybe once you are capable of forming cohesive sentences adhering to the English language (and not Slipdisc grammar) you will find people are more liable to take you seriously.


That doesn't make sense.

Buckethead is nothing like GN'R.

He was a member of GN'R at one point but his solo work is incomparable.


Malmsteen was never even half as popular as GN'R and he never had as much mainstream appeal, either. GN'R played to all crowds and the teenagers from the early '90s loved them and girls liked them (you won't find many average teen girls who were ever fans of Malmsteen) because they wrote ballads like SCOM, NR and Don't Cry.


Good for you.


You are missing my point.

I never said Ron and BH couldn't write good songs.

I love Electric Tears.

What I said is that the assertion that Ron and BH are without doubt a superior songwriter to Izzy Stradlin is ridiculous, especially since as of yet - like it or not, no matter how hard you try to prove otherwise - these two guitarists have not had as much of an influence or as much success as Izzy did.

And the reason Bumblefoot's stuff doesn't appeal to the masses is very obvious. If you can't play YCBM and then listen to Guitars Suck and not realize where the difference lies between mainstream appeal and virtuoso appeal as a cult artist then there's no wonder here in what you are saying.


Oh really? Thanks for the clarification. Which public poll are you relying upon?

Outside of the Bumblefoot cult - and it was significantly LESS before he joined GN'R - does anyone even know who he is? When he was announced as the new guitarist at Hammerstein few of us knew who he was and we all started posting pictures for reference.

He may be a great virtuoso and he may have songwriting skill but that doesn't change the fact that nothing he's written has had the success that Izzy's work within GN'R did, and this is fine except for the fact that you (like a complete ass) tried to say Izzy is "obviously" inferior to these two guys as a songwriter. Bullshit.


Dude, you just completely contradicted yourself. If it doesn't matter then why did you just try to prove otherwise in the aforementioned paragraphs? And hey, guess what - that wasn't my criteria for judging a guitarist. You need to spend more time comprehending what you are reading rather than jumping on everything and going off on a wild, incoherent tangent.


What the hell does this even have to do with what we are discussing?

As of right now Bumblefoot, in Guns N' Roses, is playing a setlist dominated by 90% of material written by Izzy, Slash and Axl. THAT is the fact. And Ron didn't write anything for CD, he's said so himself. Buckethead was there during the writing process.

That's irrelevant to our discussion. My point was that if Ron is playing these songs by Izzy and Axl then obviously your assertion that Izzy is an inferior songwriter is complete bullshit.

I never said anything about Chinese Democracy or whether or not Buckethead and Ron are capable of writing songs. They are. Especially Bucket - but their work decidedly appeals to a certain target audience of listeners. Your behavior towards Izzy's abilities is what bothered me most and the fact that you tried to insinuate these two guitarists are "obviously" better than him at writing songs.

how can you be so sure?
Inland invasion was 23rd and mr and mrs foot went straight back to NJ after the party.
moreover, ron recently said they were supposed to start up for the upcoming tour. which was on oct 3 ish?
bumblefoot chat  (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=7b9d67833ef2f13cc04c57a165e7dc21&topic=36678.msg738142#msg738142)

People saying that they don't see Bumblefoot as a permanent member... I didn't see Fortus as a permament member when he joined either. Unfortunately, it looks like he isn't going anywhere now, doesn't it?
Who the fuck knows? I sure as hell don't. And doubt any of you here do.

RR, more people know Izzy because he was a HUGE part of GNR, he was there since the very beginning. You can't compare them three, them two, or fuck-ever else. It's like comparing a book to a kettle. One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. I personally prefer Ron's songwriting, but that's going on another direction, it's a matter of opinion.


Geezuz fuckin' Christ, every time somebody starts a topic on Bumblefoot it ends up like this.

this is so true... maybe the current lineup with Ron rocks and it's fun, but I miss Bucket's work, really a lot.

what ignorant fuckers to a person asking a simple question.

That was my point.

You can't compare them.

This guy for no reason whatsoever started bringing Izzy into the discussion and comparing him against Ron and Buckethead saying they are better songwriters. What does it have to do with anything?

 :rofl:

Lol, is this the best you can do? Attacking people on their grammar? Are you this desperately grasping for straws? Next time write your posts in Dutch we?ll see what?s better, my English or your Dutch. As long as people understand what I'm saying (illustrated by you meandering reply), I'm doing just fine. What?s next, are you going to attack people on their avatars too? You just gave the word "pathetic" a whole new dimension.? :hihi:


Yes it does make sense. Times have changed and what was mainstream then is totally different from what?s mainstream now. If Buckethead would have been at this point in his career in a decade in which the electric guitar still would dominate mainstream music chances are big he would have been a whole lot more popular (for what it?s freakin?worth, but hey it?s you to whom popularity equals quality) and the link to GNR, a guitar driven band, even more obvious.


Where were you in the eighties? When ?Rising Force?came out Malmsteen was HUGE. His fanbase contained the whole spectrum of fans. He was as big as one person could get. The way people all over the world played guitar changed over night. Your efforts to marginalize it all are as assbackwards as they are delusional. He wasn't just for the virtuoso crowd.


No you are missing the point here.

The fact that you: A) blame me for bringing him into discussion and B) Say that I stated that Ron and Buckethead are obviously better songwriters, is just plain laughable.

First of all, look at the posts before mine to see who brought Izzy into this discussion. Furthermore, I said that Izzy would never be able to write similar things. The styles of these players are just way to different. That?s what I said. Is it really this hard to grasp that a player with blues roots isn?t likely to write the same stuff a classically rooted player like Ron would come up with? Is it really that hard to see why I think Ron and Buckethead are more suitable for a new GNR with a contemporary sound than someone of the past? Especially when the creative mind of the band has stated wanting to move away from the things this band did in the past, into new musical directions?? That?s what I said and you (for the benefit of your fantasies) ripped out of it?s context. Nice going there, you eloquent mastermind. I never said Izzy's writing was inferior to theirs, it's just stylistically different and not what Axl is looking for with the new GNR (illustrated by the efforts Axl makes to have a modern virtuoso in his band)


Don?t project your own ignorance on others. I can?t help it that you don?t know what?s going on in music outside of GNR.


Again it?s only in your world where I called Buckethead and Ron better players. And you?re the ass here for twisting and turning it all into something that suits your fantasies. The only obvious difference between these players I pointed out is the level of technical proficiency and the stylistic differences. Which even a deaf and blind person would acknowledge (you?ll be seeing this again later on).? :hihi:


And hey guess what? I wasn?t talking to you!? :rofl: :rofl:

That comment was directed at Axlrosehunny.

You should be the last to complain about people not reading your posts and going of on a tangent. So tell me who?s jumping on everything here? Who should take some more time comprehending what people are saying? Next time you feel a need to get on that high horse of yours, make sure you actually understood what was being said. This makes you look like the hypocrite you obviously are.


Again it?s only in your world where I called Buckethead and Ron better players. And you?re the ass here for twisting and turning it all into something that suits your fantasies. The only obvious difference between these players I pointed out is the level of technical proficiency and the stylistic differences. Which even a deaf and blind person would acknowledge (you?ll be seeing this again later on).

The only thing I pointed out was that because of their technical abilities Ron and Buckethead can play all of Izzy?s stuff (and tweak it), but Izzy could never play Ron and Bucket?s stuff. Or did he visit some MAB clinic to raise his chops? Izzy could never be a substitute for typical Buckethead playing, where Buckethead can be (and has proven so) be a substitute for Izzy.


Again it?s only in your world where I called Buckethead and Ron better players. And you?re the ass here for twisting and turning it all into something that suits your fantasies. The only obvious difference between these players I pointed out is the level of technical proficiency and the stylistic differences. Which even a deaf and blind person would acknowledge.

-PEACE-

Ps. I'm done with you now this is a very dead horse by my standards and I'm not going to defend myself for things I didn't even say to begin with. So have fun playin' another round of twister!!

That's hardly an attack. It's pointing out hypocrisy when you insult the intelligence of others and then don't even use correct grammar. Don't try to imply it doesn't matter because you speak Dutch as a first language. This is an English message board and if you're going to go around trying to offend people by insinuating they are stupid then you'd better make sure your own posts aren't littered with grammatical errors. Don't blame your ineptitude on a language barrier or try to imply that you're better than I am because you (ignorantly) assume English is my first language, or that I don't speak any other languages. Low, man. Real low.


How many paragraphs did I write in my reply to you? How many did you respond to here? How is it grasping for straws when I give you a full-length reply and mention your grammar one time? If I gave you a two-sentence reply I could see where you're coming from.


Huh?


Stop making an ass out of yourself. I already said I don't equate quality with popularity, so stop trying to make little digs like that. It'd make sense if I had actually said that at one point, but I already said it's not true and you continue to bring it up.

Furthermore it's your opinion that Buckethead would have gained more popularity. I don't think he ever would have gained popularity in any era because he is decidedly non-mainstream and he doesn't want to be mainstream.


You find GN'R to be guitar-driven? Really?


Maybe in the Netherlands. In America he was not. He was much more popular than he is today, but your point is pretty much moot since you admitted he's not popular today and GN'R is. It's a testament to the strength of GN'R that their popularity has barely faltered over the years. They've in many ways become legends. Malmsteen wasn't selling out stadiums like GN'R back in the '80s and his records didn't sell 16 million copies either. Start learning the difference between fact and personal preference and you'll realize arguments will be a lot easier. It's a statistical fact that Malmsteen didn't sell a well as GN'R or as well as many solo artists in the '80s.


Malmsteen?!  :rofl: As big as one person could get, eh? So I guess Michael Jackson releasing Thriller in the '80s was just a predecessor to the rise of MALMSTEEN!  ::)

Malmsteen wasn't a big celebrity, he was popular but not mega-popular and he didn't appeal to as many outside of his target audience.


The Neo-classical thing influenced a lot of virtuoso guitarists. It didn't change the way everyone played overnight.  ::)


No, this is what you said:


Now maybe if your intent was to say Izzy is just a different style guitarist/songwriter, you should have been more specific and clarified what you were writing.


I agree. But if that's what you were trying to say from the start then why did you start arguing with us when we challenged your claims?

Whether it was your intention or not, it sounded like you were slamming Izzy and the other guitarists and claiming they were inferior songwriters/guitarists. It's a different style. It doesn't mean they're worse.


This is another example of your complete ignorance and lack of respect. We were discussing the popularity of Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal outside of GN'R. Fact is a lot of people - the majority of people - have no idea who he is. And a LOT of us had no clue who he was when he was introduced at Hammerstein. How many MySpace friends did he have then compared to now? GN'R brought him more fame than ever before. He said so himself. Just because I'm pointing this out doesn't mean I have no idea what is going on in music outside of GN'R, and how dare you try to bring such low bait into a discussion.

If you can't discuss things maturely or with respect then you really shouldn't bother at all. I didn't say you were an idiot and I didn't insult you but from your very first reply to me you've shown a lot of attitude and disrespect. You'd better work on that, buddy, if you want people to show you respect in return.

Maybe. But none of the songs leaked/live i've heard so far, sound all that 'complex'. Slash could play most of the riffs, and i'm not even a Slash fan. I certaintly am not diminishing Ron & Bucket's work, but just because it sounds cool & complex doesn't mean they can write better than Izzy Stradlin. All i've got to say is Izzy's been behind some of rock's modern classics (Patience for one). Where's Ron & Bucket's hits?


That's a matter of opinion.

 
Bullcrap. The only person that has a heavy influence on CD is W. Axl Rose. I'm all for this equal shit with this band being Guns N' Roses, 'cause they are goddammit, but to say Bucket is a huge influence is a joke. Axl calls all the shots, including instrumentals. He's been doing this since the Illusion days.

 
Axl would've added Izzy back to the lineup, if Izzy gave a shit about wanting to be back in the Guns. He doesn't. At least not full-time. Izzy didn't like was Guns became, and probably still doesn't to an extent. Izzy always envisioned GN'R being a club band, like a Ramones or New York Dolls, and always staying right there. He didn't like how they became a modern Stones or Zeppelin, and became arena rock. Izzy i'm sure would want to write & contribute in the studio, but he's just not a road guy, and probably never will be again, at least not on the caliber of GN'R. I don't think the guy has any interest, or he would've been back a long time ago.

And to say this is only Axl's attempt at providing credit with the older fans is bullcrap. Axl & Izzy reconciled their differences, and Axl wanted to make him apart of this. How does this provide credit? Axl Rose & Izzy Stradlin are the founding members of Guns N' Roses. NO ONE ELSE. If Izzy wants to come on stage, and drink a martini and eat shrimp rolls for half the set, by god he better be allowed to do so.


I'll agree with that. But I also have to re-state. No one will ever have their hand in Guns N' Roses' future other than Axl Rose for the rest of it's existance. He's been burned too much, and has felt since the early-90's that to direct his band the way he wants, he needs full & sole creative control.


The music became mainstream because it was good. Saying this, is like saying GN'R were only successful, because they were on the rocket when it took off.


Agreed. I'm not on board with all of these Axlites that think 2007 is gonna be 1992 all over again.

 
Bucket's music doesn't have mainstream appeal, because what he does is not radio-ready. He does his thing, and it's not what the biz is looking to market.



 
Malmsteen was never huge.


Matter of opinion.



I agree with what you're saying in theory. But every band in that time 'sold out' (I guess?) to become more marketable. People said Guns N' Roses sold out when the Illusion's dropped and songs like Don't Cry & NR were the biggest hits.

People said Metallica sold out with the Black album around the same time because Enter Sandman was too melodic & Nothing Else Matters was a power ballad.

Dude this happens with everyone who is successful. At one time or another, every artist in rock was underground. They either stayed there, or crawled out of their shell to a broader world.


The new players are forced to play old stuff, because the casual fans want to hear the classics right now, not new shit. The difference between GN'R and say the Aerosmith & Motley Crue's of the world, is GNR's new stuff is actually good. When old artists get booed off of stages for playing their new material, it's because it sucks, and they should get a clue.


And vice versa. And if this was a 'factual' discussion, you wouldn't have added that "which he never could" part. That explains right there you're on some campaign to be pro-Ron & Bucket, and anti-everyone else with a guitar in their hand on stage.


People hate when people say idiotic things like Ron & Bucket IMPROVED Nightrain. Are you for REAL?!?!?! I'm not all into this 'Robin played Slash's solo better' & 'Ron played Izzy's solo' better. Fuck that shit.

That's like saying Axl sings Live and Let Die better than Paul McCartney. If it wasn't for Paul McCartney, Axl Rose wouldn't fucking know what Live and Let Die was.

and speaking of that, 'this is a song called Live and Let DIE!'

I don't think Ron has heard the whole album.

Maybe only the songs he's been asked to learn (TWAT, Better, Maddy, The Blues, IRS and CD)

Exactly what I was trying to say.

Since this is dead horse, I can get away with this: the band should definately make Ron a permanent member if there is no chance that Buckethead will come back. I never understood the lack of stage chemistry argument b/c the band was very entertaining in 2002: Axl may have not been himself but finck/bucket played dr. jekyll and mr. hyde on opposite sides of the stage. It was fun.

For the love of god, do not take Buckethead back. Sure, as a guitarist he's talented, but he feels way outta place in GNR. Ron is cool, got amazing stage presence and is a brilliant guitarist.

Bumblefoot for president!

I thought he felt right at home. I wish some fans had treated Bucket better.

They will KV. When CD comes out, and BH is on it, they wont be able to praise the material without offering any kudos to BH. They have trouble doing that now, and it'll be even worse when an actual album is out.

He didn't fit in GNR's image. Period.

Correction: he didn't fit into GN'Rs' old image.

I thought his style was perfect considering this is a reincarnation of the band. Axl even changed his look in '02, it's just a pity he choose the gansta rap style.

Axl in 2002 didn't fit GNR's image either.

Exactly.

Old GN'R.

What is GN'R today?

New GN'R.

It's not the same band. Like it or not. It's Axl and Dizzy. And Dizzy Reed was not an original member.

Axl said he wanted to take the new band in a new direction, musically and stylistically. He did. People bitched because it wasn't "old" GN'R.

Now he's gone back to the old look. It's nice but also kind of redundant and makes you question whether he went back in 2002 and restructured Chinese Democracy after getting all that bad press.

I really hope not, because style-wise or not the music from '02 was stunning stuff. Too bad his voice sucked, but then again I think it fit the new songs like Rhiad.

Dude they looked like clowns in 2002...

They went back to the old look because they were a laughing stock.

There's a very thin line between brilliance and insanity; genius and stupidity.

I think what Axl did in 2002 was absolutely brilliant. I am not an Axl dick licker either so don't think I am. I hated them in '02 (not hated, but I hated their IMAGE). Now looking back in retrospect I realize what Axl was trying to pull off and it was great. The problem is that he went too far and in too short a time. He was trying to transform the band and he did. He was trying to merge styles and he did. The musical styles were superb - listen to Blues from '02; the '80s-fashion techno synth in the background with the keyboards, the high vocals and the stunning Bucket melodies underneath the outro with power chords by Fortus.

That band was touching on something revolutionary but they were just a bit to the side and veering into stupidity; Axl's gangsta rap image was the backfire, as was Robin Finck's goth look. The sound of the band was better.

And, dare I say it, I loved the chemistry between Axl and Bucket - that was perfect and bizarre and it was 100% compelling. RIR3 - It's So Easy - Axl jumps the stage as Buckethead leaps through the air behind him; love it.

Axl and BH are both enigmas and they had chemistry; Axl pursued BH for the band for months and I hated BH when he was in the band but realize his brilliance now. Axl knew what he was doing. It just was misunderstood.

If they had kept with it and changed the image of Finck and Axl back then - and Axl had dressed as he did at RIR3 with the dragon shirts - that band would have been amazing.

Interesting theory.

But personally I think that's looking far too deep into it.

Probably.  :rofl:

I do think there was something special and ambitious there. If they hadn't named themselves "Guns N' Roses" and drawn comparisons to the old band, and Axl hadn't gotten himself braided, and Finck hadn't done the goth look, and they hadn't attempted to play old songs that required the "old rasp," that would have been great. The new songs sounded great with the new voice; in comparison when they play The Blues now I feel it's missing something special.

I agree. There's a few of the new songs, like Maddy & The Blues that just don't sound right with the old rasp, and sound better with the 2002 voice.

By the way, love your Marty McFly avatar!