Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Ok, first off i think the Tokyo 92 DVD's aint to hot, sure they have there moments but for the most part Axl does'nt sound too great and the show generaly has no atmosphere. Now I could think of a few shows i've seen on DVD that should have been released, Argentina 93 to name but one but thats not my point.

The mysterous thing is, GN'R played 3 shows when they were in Tokyo. The first show i havnt seen or heard so cannot comment on, however, i have just downloaded an audio of the second night in tokyo and must say I was blown away. The third night in Tokyo im sure we've all seen/heard, this was the show that was officialy released as Video/DVD.

Now the mysterous thing is, why would they release the 3rd night in Tokyo as a DVD when the previous show two days before was far superior. Whats really odd is during the second show (the amazing show) Axl speaks through an interpreter to say they are filming the show for release!?

So why choose an inferior show over one they had already recorded two days before?

I don't know for sure, but having watched the U2 Elevation tour in Boston DVD, one possible explanation might be explained in it.

U2 played two shows at the same venue and ended up releasing the second one. The first night was like a rehearsal for all the film crew, directors, lightning guys etc.


Or maybe they filmed both shows and picked the third one for some reason.



/jarmo

Maybe the japanese crew didn't like Locomotive!  :rant:

I dont have an answer as to why they picked that show .. but I gotta say , my favorite part was when axl's face looked like it was gunna explode as he was doing "bad time intro" for SCOM.

Maybe cause they didn't plan to tape the second show? So they were not filming it? You know, professional filming costs $$$

I never knew of a 3rd show, but I've read that they took the best from both nights and spliced them together.

yep, same songs, same clothes, same thing.

Has anyone checked gnrontour for more info?

There are a couple things that save Tokyo for me.

Double Talkin Jive, Wild Horses, Civil War, and YCBM are great.  When Duff and Axl walk up behind Slash and Gilby on Wild Horses....now that is a moment!

Slash just rips it up on DTJ.  And Axl is a freakin mad man on YCBM.

If only he wasn't wearing those shorts the whole time.    >:(

The three shows are dated as: 02/19/92, 02/20/92 then finaly 02/22/92.

Jarmo's explination seems plusable about the first night being like a rehearsal for all the film crew, directors, lightning guys etc.

Pehaps the audio was better but the way the concert was shot wasnt up to scratch. After all these shows were for video/DVD not CD. It still bugs me though that they would do this. I for one would have prefered to watch a show where the whole band sound amzing than a show with superior camera angles anyday  :)

Thats the thng that bugs me about GN'R, the live stuff these release never seems to do the band justice.

Well the show was most likley choosen by Geffen and not the band, perhaps the night choosen was more political correct in orientation?

I agree. I think the song choice (whether it was from one night or multiple nights as I think was probably the case) was geared more towards the songs that were already singles and those that had 'single potential.' As much as I love Coma and Locomotive, these would never have been even concidered to be singles and therefore got the chopping block treatment.

Another strange thing about the UYI performance was that it was broken up into 2 tapes/DVDs. Now you could be just plain synical and say, "that's just to make more money off the product." I'm not so sure that was the plan, however. When the original UYI tapes came out, I bought them for $40 ($20/peice) if I remember correctly (ironically enough I bought them for $9.99/peice when they came out on DVD). They had enough "room" to fit songs from each of the three nights in Tokyo and then some. Why didn't they just use up the room on the tape/DVD and do just that? Perhaps they knew they wanted to play a variety of songs (not just the same set) each night and planned for 2 tapes to fit EVERYTHING. Then, when it came time to choose which performances of the repeated songs to choose from, the band, Geffen, maybe even Axl himself chose at the last minute NOT to include songs like Coma and Locomotive for some reason (perhaps not happy with the audio or video taken). I don't know...it just seems to me that the 2 tape idea had more purpose at one time.

Maybe not. Who knows.  8)

Two tapes/DVDs because the albums were on two volumes. That's my theory.




/jarmo

I remember buying these around the holidays in 1992. It was the beginning of me accepting that GNR was not the same band of the Ritz 88, Appetite, Lies, etc. I mean I knew it wasn't all along.... Rio 91 should have said it all... but watching a professionally released concert that wasn't very good... that says a lot. They couldn't come up with a better show than that? The one highlight, the one thing I hung my hopes on, was the end of Rocket Queen. It seemed like the band and Axl really hit a groove, and Axl wasn't playing safety with his voice at that part either. I'll have to watch those videos again. I haven't seen them in years. Can't see a reason to get the DVDs though.

not to ride your ass Izzy, but wouldn't you think the band itself had controll over what they wanted to release, i mean if there was a few bad tracks the second night, they could have just deleted those. After all they did swap the tracks around on the released dvd compared to the real gig so a little editing would be possible.

 :peace:

i don`t really like these dvd`s. imo there`re lots of better gnr concerts out there. i don`t like the concerts from the first few months of 1992. maybe they just took it as the dvd`s because they allready released the concert and there wasn`t that much work to do...  i think the best for us would`ve been if they`d released another show, so that we`d have the tokio one and another.

I think this is the most plausible explanation but why Axl said that?

FYI Setlists nicked from somewhere...

@19 Feb 1992 Tokyo Dome
01) Coma 02) Mr. Brownstone 03) Live And Let Die 04) Bad Obsession 05) Double Talkin' Jive 06) Civil War 07) Wild Horses~ Patience 08) Attitude 09) Welcome To The Jungle 10) Don't Cry 11) Piano Solo~ November Rain 12) Nightrain 13) Drum Solo -) Guitar Solo -) Godfather Theme 14) Sail Away Sweet Sister~Bad Time~ Sweet Child O' Mine 15) You Could Be Mine 16) So Fine 17) Only Women Bleed~ Knockin' On Heaven's Door　
//encore  18) Estranged  19) Mother~ Paradise City

@20 Feb 1992 Dome
01) It's So Easy 02) Mr. Brownstone 03) Locomotive 04) Bad Obsession 05) Live And Let Die 06)Attitude 07) Don't Cry 08) Nightrain 09) So Fine 10) Wild Horses~ Patience 11) Welcome To The Jungle 12) Double Talkin' Jive 13) Civil War 14) Piano Solo~ November Rain 15) Drum Solo -) Guitar Solo -) Godfather Theme 16) Sail Away Sweet Sister~Bad Time~ Sweet Child O' Mine 17) Move To The City 18) You Could Be Mine 19) Only Women Bleed~ Knockin' On Heaven's Door 　
//encore  20) Mother~ Paradise City

@22 Feb 1992 Dome
01) Nigh train 02) Mr. Brownstone 03) Live And Let Die 04) It's So Easy 05) Bad Obsession 06) Attitude 07) Pretty Tied Up 08) Welcome To The Jungle 09) Don't Cry 10) Double Talkin' Jive 11) Civil War 12) Wild Horses~ Patience 13) You Could Be Mine 14) Piano Solo~ November Rain 15) Drum Solo Guitar Solo -) Godfather Theme 16) Sail Away Sweet Sister~ Bad Time~ Sweet Child O' Mine 17) So Fine 18) Rocket Queen+It Tastes Good, Don't It? 19) Move To The City 20) Only Women Bleed ~Knockin' On Heaven's Door　
//encore 21) Estranged 22) Mother~ Paradise City

I agree, Double Talkin Jive is fantastic.  I had a whole new respect for that song after seeing the Tokyo DVD.  : ok:

-F

But they could have put some extras to the DVDs...

I still don't understand why they didn't tape at least two shows and then release the best music with the best video - Led Zeppelin's The Song Remains the Same has moments of two shows and the music you hear and the video are often from a different concert. Anyway, I love the UYI DVDs  :yes:

Yeah, but that would cost money. I guess it's easier to just make DVDs of the existing releases instead of re-working them....



/jarmo

I think Jarmo might be right, but also based on Locomotive (the only song I've heard from the second show), Axl's voice sounded horrendous.  That was one of the worst vocal performances by him in any song I've ever heard; he was really struggling to sing in his normal voice.  That said, I can't comment on how he sounded on the other songs.  Also, his voice was pretty lousy in the third show as well, but on certain songs, he was brilliant (Don't Cry, Civil War, You Could Be Mine for example). 

Personally thats my main beef with Zep's "The song remains the same" dvd ... I love the dvd , dont get me wrong .. but when a band releases a live show/dvd I'd rather see it warts and all and not polished and cut from various shows. As good as TSRTS is it pales in comparison to the self titled led zep dvd they put out a little while ago.

And some extra features wouldnt have been hard to put on the UYI dvd's .. I mean the video itself is a stright transfer to dvd but whoever made it had to create those new menus so in the same vein why not waste another hour or two of production work to add a band members BIO , still gallery .. just some really basic special features to spruce the discs up a little?

Oh well.

The thing that bugs me about the Tokyo show is that casual GN'R fans that buy the video/dvd's would take one look at those shows and imidiately asume GN'R suck as a live band, ive seen it happen! One of my mates who started gettin into GN'R bought the DVD's and said "yeah great band but they suck live", it was up too me to show him the error of his ways. I gave him a copy of my Ritz 88, Argentina 93 and an audio of perhaps the best show ive ever heard - St. Paul MN Dec. 17th 1987.  :)

As soon as my mate viewed/listened to these shows his jaw dropped, for two reasons. Number one: He could'nt believe how awsome GN'R's live show was and, Number Two: he could'nt believe the record company would realease a product like that when so many more proffesionaly shot shows blew the tokyo DVD's away.

I saved my mate from thinking they suck live by explaining that the stuff released by geffen does'nt do the band justice & giving him copys of my shows, but the question is:

How many more people buy those widely available DVD's and think, "oh my god, my favourite band aint to great live" ?   :-\

Axl was always hit or miss live. He was either really great or really bad.

The truth of the matter is, all bands have shitty nights once in awhile. Especially when you're doing four nights a week for months and months.

What really happened with the Tokyo DVD releases??? ??? ??? ???



Axl went on a 2 week CRACK BENDER and decided that it was the right decision to make. :o :confused:



I bet he regrets it to this day. :yes:

maybe they didn't have a plan to taped tokyo show,but when the first and seconds night were great,then they made a decision to taped a show!!!1

i don't know for you guys,but for me Tokyo dvd is excellent

i like axl voice on the begginig of sweet child,i like nighttrain,civil war,welcome to the jungle,paradise city,don't cry,pretty tied up and especialy move to the city from that show

yeah, move to the city is awsome on the tokyo dvd!!!

i don't think there's any doubht that they planed to tape tokyo and release it tho, as mentioned axl talked about the filming the second night...

one good reason they chose tokyo might be that japan is a huge market and live concert from toky would prob. sell more in japan than a gig from paris or msg.

another thing might be that to fill up tokyo dome three nights straight(with a day off inbetween) is pretty awsome and "stat wise" it's pretty damn cool to have a live gig from from that huge place.

but who knows exactly why they chose the tokyo gigs out of them all....

I don't think anyone but die-hards would be enthused by the Tokyo DVDs. Actually I'm a die-hard and I don't even like 'em. Maybe it's the ultra-primo die-hards that like them. I've watched Tokyo probably 25 times or more, although I havn't seen it in years. (BTW, the fact that they sold one concert as two separat products doesn't help matters.) I was always trying to figure out what's missing, how this could possibly be the same band that produced Appetite and killed at the Ritz. That band that ruled planet Earth from 87-89.

Stevenson, do you know where a fan from back in the day might get hisself a copy of that St Paul '87 show?

I watch this DVD on the treadmill at the gym.  It is a little embarrasing with Axl parading around in those biker shorts, but the music is damn good to work out to.

Hey Johnny Blood, I dont know of anywhere you can download it but I do have it here on my hardrive, you could add me to your MSN and i could send you each of the MP3's through that if you want?   : ok:

I'd urge everyone to find the St Paul '87 show, this whole show along could have been released an album and would have kicked ass. The Nightrain form that show is the most feirce & angry ive ever heard. Axl's vocals are amazing on every song. The SCOM is is the best i've heard Axl sing it ever!  : ok:

Just to clear something up though, when i started the topic and said the band were a bit "off" during the Tokyo show, I was really mainly talking about Axl. 9 times outa 10 the players, i.e. Slash Duff Matt etc all sound great to me.

Its ture what dave-gnfnr2k said:
"Axl was always hit or miss live. He was either really great or really bad"

When Axl was bad, he was really bad, but those shows where he pulls out all the stops, Axl was quite simply the best there was, you could'nt touch Axl on those nights.

The way Axl would scream, it is inevitable that his voice would not be on every night.  Most shows I have heard he delivered though.

Heh. They kind of remind me of four drunks singing at a bar  during that party. But maybe it's just me.

Even though there are parts of the DVDs that aren't so good, I actually like them as a whole. Axl singing his lungs out while Slash runs through the crowd during "Paradise City" is nice. Oh, and the kilt's always entertaining... Gooood stuff...

Eh? I always loved Axl's voice there. He takes a while to get it all opened and running but when he does, he sounds like the raw merciless rock bastard demon he is.You Could Be Mine from Tokyo is THE version of the song for me, always.


Just watched it today after years and years and years of..well..not watching it. Never noticed/realized before that the t shirt Axl wears in Tokyo and on  the picture appearing on UYI lyrics sheet is actually a NIN shirt.  Kinda neat, huh?...well i think it's neat.Can't believe I have never noticed that before.

Judging from the color and text  it's actually pretty rare nin shirt too. It says "Sin" on front, promoting a single off from Pretty Hate Machine.
Not sure if this is worth all that babble, it's just that I feel so fucking dumb ;D I used to have a poster on my wall with Axl wearing that shirt for years. And half decade later, that same logo on my cellphone for years and never spotted the uhhh "connection" Til now, that is.



(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9587/axlninjv5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

when metallica played in texas in 1997 , they played 3 nights in fort worth and edited all 3 into one dvd/vhs titled Cunning Stunts....wouldnt it be smarter for bands to do this , then they could have like a smorgas board of songs they thought came out great to choose from for the dvd ?

If I remember correctly, then I think the release of the 2 video tapes was intended for sale in Japan Only. I've got a 2cd bootleg that is copied from those tapes. Later the edited ones were released world wide as UYI 1 and 2 I think. Can't remember exactly, but I think it was something like this.

 

Is the UYI videos/DVD all from one show, or spliced together from all the Tokyo shows?
How the hell did Axl manage all the changes of clothes if it was from one!

He really only changes jackets, so it's not very time consuming.

I swear the colour of his shorts change during it.
I don't know, I can't remember!

Also, YCBM and November Rain are swapped around on the DVDs/videos, are they not?
Although I guess this is because of length/flow of the videos.

You are correct, it was released in Japan first then later released worldwide.

- The DVD's are not from all three shows, it's just from the 22nd
- I don't think it's that bad
- They really seem to enjoy themselves
- DTJ is fantastic, sad it wasn't the longest version
- The crowd isn't actually so lame, you just can't hear them because it's a soundboard audio

Of course I'd rather take Locomotive or Coma than this, but it's all good.

You're right.  During some parts he has the white spandex on and during other parts the red.  The songs are all out of order which kind of doesn't make any sense to me but it does have some good moments.  Patience and Don't Cry are two of my favorite songs from the DVD.  The end of Patience when he holds the last note is a great moment, for me anyway.  Sail Away Sweet Sister on the DVD is probably my favorite version of the song and they cut that off the Banzai cd for some reason.  Double Talkin' Jive is another song on there that's cool as hell.  Even Civil War didn't turn out too bad.  For the most part though, the concert is definitely not even close to GN'R at it's best.  Not to compare the new to the old band, but I think every single show in 2006 that I've heard so far, has been better than the 2/22/92 Tokyo show.

for me tokyo dvd are bettr than paris 92
(ntrain,browstone,jungle,civil war,pretty tied up,so finewereamazing there)

many people here bashing Axl voice in sweet child but i just like that,that give diferences between live and studio

agree with you guys that gnr had a better boots(argentina 1993,new year eve miami...) but tokyp dvd have a better quality than chicago,noblesvile,rock in rio...

Jesus never thought i'd see this thread again, started it in March 2005 lol

The DVD's aint that bad, for me they have there momments. DTJ is out of this world.

Axl's voice on Don't Cry is simply stunning, the best Don't Cry ive heard.

For me the best DVD's for people to watch to realy get a feel for what the band can do are Ritz '88, Chicargo '92 & Argentina '93.

It's ok, but I just cringe now watching them-it represents to me the bloated period for the band-I hated the horns, backup singers-it was a good concert, but I don't miss it at all-I think Axl knew at the time he wasn't happy-I love Gilby, Slash and Duff, but if I hope I never hear Bad Obsession again-and Paradise City you seemed to have 20 people in stage for it. Oh well, there's my vent

Have to disagree. The 80s show are definately the best. The good thing about Illusion shows is naturally the number of songs they play, but they never surpass the chemistry and energy of some of the 80s shows.

Argentina '93 blows away the Tokyo concerts-the band seemed pissed and aggressive that night-they Tokyo shows were very well shot, I must admit

did you see that all shows which stollen from crew have a very bad audio quality

They've definately played better shows, but I grew up with the UYI videos....I later discovered via lots of bootlegs that they're capable of doing much better both in the 80's and on that tour.

My main gripe with that DVD is the sound - the guitars and bass sound good but the drums sound flat, and you can barely hear any of the backing vocals or Dizzy's percussion during the Appetite songs.

The drum sound was dire, totally ruined the solo.

Props to all of those with positive things to say about this show.

Sadly, I have none.

I can think of tons of shows that would've been better than this. It's a 'down the line' / 'by the numbers' / 'standard' kind of show. Not bad, but not that exciting either.

Tokyo night 1 had the extremely rare Coma. Tokyo night 2 had the extremely rare Locomotive. The crowd in Tokyo night 3 has to be one of the worst crowds ever!

Here's some Use Your Illusion alternatives...

Chicago 1992 (great setlist, including both Coma AND Estranged, Axl is in rare form, going on four seperate rants, one of which is a 5-minute tirade. Band is playing good also. Crowd is okay.)

Paris 1992 (not a full on GN'R show, but a great show. Lenny Kravitz shows up for Always On The Run, while Steven Tyler & Joe Perry show up to guest on rare performances of Mama Kin & Train Kept A Rollin'. Axl's voice & the band is spot on, and the crowd is awesome!)

Buenos Aires 1993 (the final old era show, which marks the end of an era. Different kind of setlist from the later 1993 shows to represent the UYI videos. More acoustic, and rawer. Possibly the greatest crowd EVER for a GN'R show, and really demostrates that at one time... they ruled the world!)

What were the ones that were stolen?

I always thought Oklahoma '92 had better sound quality than Tokyo '92-night 3.

The Legend - The Post Machine

You sure write fast man :smoking:

All I can gather from that release is that they were targeting the huge Japanese market. Why they chose the third show is more of a puzzle, but it has probably got something to do with a technical problem of some kind.

My favourite part about the Tokyo DVD's is watching Slash rip into extended solos in most of the songs. Like everyone else has said, there are better concerts they could've released, but the Tokyo show does show moments of brilliance, but why the short shorts Axl?? why?? :hihi:

I think it would solve everyones problem if the new band released a DVD.  Say May 12 at Hammerstein?  People would be blown away.

Well actually they could have released any of the Illusions shows on video- if you look at the leaked screenfeed videos of Chicago and Oklahoma, the camerawork etc. is just on par with Tokyo- there are decent amounts of wideshots etc. that would make it acceptable for an official release unlike most screenfeeds which are geared towards the upper level crowd in the arena with extreme closeups. I know Geffen split the songs up and released it as two different tapes to match the 2 albums back then, but when they released the dvd they should have just put it on one dvd in chronological order. I'm pretty sure there was an interview with Slash where he said the Tokyo show wasn't the band's choice and Geffen released it. What would rock is if GNR did a dvd boxset like Kiss or Zeppelin with a few different shows- I'm sure the record company is up for it since it would sell really well- but at this time point I doubt Axl would approve a new release of old footage since the other guys would profit from it and both Duff/Slash I think have to approve any "new" live footage before its released similar to the Live Era deal where Slash and Axl both had to send notes through lawyers and the record company to come to decisions on what to include.

that performance is a grower and really helped me appreciate gnr live performances. At first i thought they sucked bad live, but then you watch it over, find out the facts. You really do appreciate it.

That's correct Kaasu.

I recommend to everyone to get the udedited/uncut performace bootleg DVD of this show. It's much better. The songs are in order unlike in the official dvd's with November Rain and You Could Be Mine. Plus, the bootleg dvd has all of Axl's rants and his speech thru an interpreter.

Where can I find this unedited/uncut performance?

I really like the version of Estranged on the Tokyo DVD.

*************
The Tokyo Mistery?

For a band that made hundreds of shows from 1987 until September 31, 1991, the mistery is how can they release a sad show like Tokyo 1992.

For God's sake, I don't want Tracy and Roberta, I don't want Teddy Zig fuckin' Zag and I don't want Gilby! I don't want a band that is dying in front of thousands of Japanese fans! I want a band on fire, rocking hard and having a great fuckin' time! I want to have a decent video or audio recording of the best band in the world playing a great fucking show!

So forget about Tokyo 1992 and just release Tokyo 1988! Don't like Japan? Pay Australian TV some money and release Melbourne 1988! No? So pay MTV some money and release the fantastic Ritz 1988 complete, uncensored and with bonus backstage footage! Oh, don't wanna do stuff with MTV? So Release the goddam RITZ 991 gig! FOR GOD SAKE, THAT CONCERT WAS SHOT ON FILM FOR THE YOU COULD BE MINE VIDEO!!!! Not good enough? Just do an easy deal with Brazil's TV Globo and release Rio 1991, the biggest show the band has ever done, and certainly one of the best! No deal with Brazil? So get your own footage together and just release Indiana 1991, that fuckin' glorious homecoming show! Or just do the right things and release a triple DVD with the 3/4-hour long August 3, 1991 gig! Release anything from 1987 until Wembley 1991! Even on THAT concert, when things weren't going so well, it was still good. Anyone that watched "Live and Let Die" from that concert (broadcasted on MTV awards) can tell it bloody rocked!

The mistery? There is one mistery for me. How come the best live band ever not have ONE SINGLE DECENT live release?

Oh, they have the Japanese EP, I forgot about that one! It has five songs! Yes!

Luciano

************

Please tell me, what's wrong with Gilby? Or how were they dying?

The red "shirt" (or n?tbrynja as we call it in Sweden) is disgusting.  :-X

I think its ridiculous criticising the Tokyo DVDS. EStranged is brilliant.. move to the city is bitchin... Nightrain is jus world class... patience.. dont cry.. wild horses... jeez they are just brilliant dvds. Slash is a sloppy player but for some reason he just nails everything that nite and cant put a foot wrong.

Some people are mentioning Paris 92.. but slash fucks up November rain and Godfather if i remember correctly.

Yes of course there are going to have been better gigs, wev seen the bootlegs, but they cant pro shot every gig the band play and I think the DVDs remain a very good represenation of the band.

Only criticism is axls voice at times but hey thats axl.

The Japanese market is often given "bonus" items concerning band releases as imported music products are somewhat more expensive than regional releases (this is why you will almost always see bonus tracks on Japanese album releases). All these bonus tracks and whatnot are there as an incentive to get the Japanese crowd to purchase these imported items. They used the Tokyo DVDs in order to cater to the Japanese audience (because the shows were set in Tokyo). It was only later that the label decided to release these videos worldwide.

I think I am right to assume that the label used these Japanese recordings for the Japanese market especially. It was after these products were succesful in their intended market, Japan, that the videos were released elsewhere globally. Imo, it was basically a marketing stragety that targeted a specific region at first.

Although, I would've loved to have seen a Wembley 1991 video release. That show was bloody good.

Weird...but they should have released Stockholm 1991 :D ...Or France 1992...The Tokyo-gigs sucked..Sure iv?e only heard/seen the one that became the DVD/ VHS but..Axl?s voice doesn?t change over a day or 2 ??..I think they could find some other shows where his voice is clean....Sure they Tokyo- DVD has their moments....I dig YCBM, Nightrain, Don?t cry, So fine and Attitude...But to take an example Sail away sweet sister / bad time starts out fine and then the SCOM-riff follow..And everything is great untill Axl starts to sing...Even my uncle siad " Does he have a flew or sumthing ? " when he saw that......

TO MAKE a long story short...Axl is the ultimate singer...But 1992 ( At least alot of shows ) wasn?t a good year for him, when it came to singin...And the Tokyo-DVD is not something GNR should put in their CV....

How can anyone not love the tokyo DVDS?


I think this is one of the greatest concerts ever.

I dont know how anyone could complain about this concert.

I love the DVDs too. I think it shows the band right there, right then with no edits, manipulation or anything. Good, bad or ugly that's how it was. Sure, there were better shows here and again on the tour but for the most part it's an accurate representation of what they were at the time.

To release Use Your Illusion videos, you need a Use Your Illusion era show.

Indiana '91, although it was the original band (mostly), and the original format of Guns N' Roses, and the homecoming show, the band performance wasn't all that great. Axl's voice was strained in many places, almost as if he was over doing it. Slash's guitar work was spotty in many places also.

Yes sure is a mystery they released this show. Slash's playing on So Fine is horrible, so out o tune. and no good chemistry in the band. IF the must release a show with Gilby in it, probably late in the tour from 1993 would be the best option

I think IndiannaRose made a good point in his post, everyone should read it first.

******

Kaasu,

Axl said himself in that MTV interview that he felt the band was dying. All the guys (Slash, Izzy, Duff) have said basically the same thing in other interviews/moments. And you don't need them saying that. You could see it with your bare eyes. Even the fishs that live on the Pacific Ocean know that 1992 was a sad and bad moment, it just wasn't good no more. They were professionals, they made the gigs and so on, but it was not the same thing. That is a fact.

Now I don't have anything against Gilby, I have all his records, I like them (not a lot, but they are ok), it is just that he is not Izzy. Gilby is not Izzy, the same way that Steven Tyler is not Axl or Joe Perry is not Slash. No matter how good is your replacement, it is never the same. And when you remove the most important songwriter from a band and also a damn good guitar player, it all changes. If - and only if - everything else was the same that 1986-1991, it would be OK. But Izzy's departure was actually a sign that things had collapsed in Guns n' Roses and the band was gone from there.

Axl is still a great performer, Slash and Duff & Matt can rock the shit out of anyone in the music business and Izzy makes one great record after the other, but separated they don't have the same power that they had when they were together. When these guys were together they were magical, and lucky are the ones who had the chance to witness this band playing live on those long gone days.

Now, Guns n' Roses never allowed themselves to imortalize those magical days on a CD or a DVD. Of course somebody did that for them - and thank God for bootleggers, because listening and watching Guns n' Roses bootlegs is the best thing I can do to get close to those magical moments. So, as a GN'R lover, all I am saying is that this band should just release any decent concert from 1987 to 1991. Because on those years Guns n' Roses was the best band in the fuckin' world. That's all there is to it.

Luciano

**********

Indiana's a great gig but Axl's voice goes during the encore - Slash had to sing the end of Paradise City

Those shows made a way better live CD than DVD.....  The whole band was great but Axl really looked like a clown with every single one of his outfits..... I thought he sounded fine though.

"Yes of course there are going to have been better gigs, wev seen the bootlegs, but they cant pro shot every gig the band play and I think the DVDs remain a very good represenation of the band."

That's the thing though, there IS a pro-shot of every UYI gig. Or at least there was at one time.

This is a very painful fact: Somewhere there are tapes of all of these legendary performances. We only have the treasures that are the Chicago, Indiana and Oklahoma City shows due to sheer luck (well, and riots).

Axl, Del, somebody, anybody, dig up those tapes and sell 'em!

If only... :'(

I bought it off a bootleg website out of China about 4 years ago. It's floating around and should be easy for you to find. I'm pretty sure Will(one of the Moderators here) has it on dvd also. I remember talking with him about the dvd in another thread a while back.

I remember it going out around Rocket Queen.

It was a cool gig tho. Axl was in one of his best moods ever.

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On Indiana, Axl destroyed his voice. Yes, it sounded FUCKED for most of the show, but the cool thing about it is that he destroyed it because he gave 110%, not only for that night, but pretty much for his entire life up to that point.

On Tokyo 1992? There is a name for what happened that night: SAVING. Axl learned to save his voice and not to force it anymore. From the very first show with Gilby on december 1991 until today, Axl sings in a WHOLE different way. Some like it, some don't, but if there is one thing that everyone should agree on is that he is holding back and not giving 110% like he used to do. Because he can't. And, on most of the GNR shows after Izzy left, also because he didn't want to. It was not needed.

There were very, very few times when Axl gave it all after 1991 and most of these times were OUTSIDE of Guns n' Roses. One of these times was for those very few lines of "Bohemian Raphsody" that he sang  on the Freddie Mercury concert. Wow, that was awesome. In 1994, singing "Come Together" with Bruce Springsteen, you could also see that Axl was ON, like he used to be in Guns n' Roses. He was putting his heart on that performance, he was 110% into it, and it showed.

And I am not telling that he is a pussy for not pushing his voice in 1992 or 1993 or 2006. He probably just HAD to sing like that. Otherwise he just would destroy his voice forever.

You can't do that - sing like a madman - to your voice forever without paying a HUGE price.

Luciano

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Interesting theory.

I don't think it's about him not giving 110% tho. I think it's about him growing as a singer, and realizing how to control his voice with vocal coaches, and how to conservatively sing, so he could sing everyday.

Plus, even today, it also depends on how 'rested' he sounds. Tampa was the 2nd show on tour, and he was OLD SKOOL. He was really into it, and was showin' off.

So going on your theory Luciano, what was up in 2002?

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Hi The Legend,

I think Axl voice was really destroyed in 2001-2002. I don't know why he was singing like that (as if he was a member of the Bee Gees). But the fact is that his voice was (to my ears) really fucked up, compared to what it used to be in the past. But hey, don't get me wrong, I went to Rock in Rio 2001 here in Brazil and I'd go to any concert that had Axl singing on it. Even if Axl did 100 different shows here I probably would go to them all if I could pay for it (unless if he did the same setlist, of course, than I'd just go to some 50 concerts, hehehehehe).

But returning to your question... Why was Axl singing like that in 2001-2002 (if it was because he wanted to or if it was because that was all he could do) is beyond my understanding. And now I have listened to some 2006 boots and Axl seems to be in a good mood again and somehow his voice is much better than in 2002. It is good to see that Axl is rocking again and seems to be getting along with his band and - that is the best part - played with IZZY again.

Now that is just fantastic. I just wish that Axl, Izzy, Duff and Slash could play together and make music again. As I said in another thread here a while ago, I think these guys could do the best rock album ever if they just get together again. If just Axl and Izzy could be together with one acoustic guitar on hand they could do (or at least play) an album worth of great songs in a few hours time. These guys have done so much great stuff and to me it just seems like a giant waste of talent that they are not playing together for 15 years now (counting from 1991).

Because even with his voice damaged, Axl is (and will ever) be the greatest singer ever in this fuckin' world, and those guys - Izzy, Slash, Duff - are the best rock n' roll band ever!

Luciano

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