Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Its going to be on Vh1's bad metal songs!...what the fuk...I can see if you dont liek the video but the song itself...get the hell outta here.....If it was a bad video show I can undertsand but not a song!....

Its on VH1 no 1230-130 o rmaybe a lil more....

disgrace

They did this years ago on another show when good bands make bad songs/videos, I think it's the whole overdone video with the dolphins and wasn't up to par with the trilogy..

I personally think the song rocks, but the video was a little much.. The most raw, wild, & untamed rock band in the 80's became the biggest staged act..

like i said if u wann amake fun of the video...no problemo...but this is a show about bad songs...and estranged is not a bad song!

it's not an metal song wtf ???

it was number 32 on the countdown. Im sure the show will reair a lot...so you can catch what they say....

they made fun of the piano solos.. they were like "i expect a guitar solo but what do i get? a piano solo" or somethin like that.. but they forget to mention the kickass guitar solos in the song.. i love estranged the song and the video equally.. i dun give a shit..

Anything from nelson to winger to bon jovi is considered metal on these shows.. It's just the time period or type of band I believe..

They had metal moments, but it consists of hard rock as well..

Yeah YG, I think the song is amazing, just seems like that's the one that gnr gets nailed about.. I remember tom petty's last dance with mary jane was getting more credit that year..

They can say it's the song, but trust me the video is the reason I believe it's getting shit on..

Are VH1 trying to win an award for 'Most Ignorant and Unfunny Show of 2004'?  This program would win it.  What the fuck are they doing?  The sad thing is half the people watching it will say "GN'R are a shit band cos VH1 said so".

Try making some quality programming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be fair, VH1 give GNr major props on these countdown shows. I wouldnt go crazy over this but I just think they are wrong when saying Estranged is a horrible song....

Metal sucks, and very often, metal fans are totally closed-minded. In fact it's because they are used to listening to...noize. Estranged is fantastic, piano is fantastic it's one of the most wonderfull instrument to play.

GNR_green don't get bent, it's a stupid show just like the crazy rolling stone top 500 song's list.. The same with the guitarist n frontmen of all time..

Just put it this way ti got alot of airtime on mtv back in it's day, I use to watch the countdown every time and it woulkd battle tom petty for first.. I think if gnr stayed tight this would have never happened, it was snubbed att he vmas as well.

This is the main reason why I love GnR, because as far as I am concerned they are not a heavy metal band. A band who write songs like Estranged, Breakdown, The Blues, Madagascar, So Fine etc are way not a metal band. They are a Rock n Roll band in their own league. How do you define Heavy Metal or Rock and Roll though? I for one cant stand bands like Iron Maiden, Mettalica (apart from a couple of their songs), etc, these are bands that are really classed as Heavy Metal arent they? I would never put GnR in this category of music. I think Estranged is the greatest song ever written and the video is okay too.

I wouldn't take VH1 seriously. I mean they spend their time making all these lists. Tomorrow they'll be counting down the 50 best butts of all time.? ::) I'm not gonna be offended by their lameness.

VH1 i use to like but what the hell?  they have some ridiculous countdowns and its one of those things they need to give up, it was cool the first few lists but like reality tv and everything else it always gets over done.

i guess in some ways Estranged to those who are narrow minded was maybe GNR jumpin the shark or something with  the self indulgent, long, weird metaphoric video *a video that u need intelligence to understand,how dare GNR*

VH1 have no taste, look at the gay college GQ pretty preppy frat boy lookin gay rock they push now on their station.

Don't worry, I'm not!

well, it was 'not so street'. But one of the best songs ever with a bit overproduced Danielle Steele-pink video.

Very popular songs like this get slated 'cause it's cool
Fuck the naysayers, Estranged is a killer.
Intercourse.

well, it seems you're the one who is closed-minded. you can't generalize that all metal sucks. there are lots of different styles, much have lots of melodies, but harder riffs. so what? just if you don't like it, doesn't mean shit. the only thing that sucks is your post, get some perspective!
btw, Estranged is my fav GnR track.

I just don't understand the metal conception of music. is the goal to make only noize? ???

lots say that about axl's vocals too (stuck like a hog) ;)

I have the sam problem with jazz

jazz wtf ???

In a word, NO.

Some metal bands are very 'noizy' but you find more musicianship in good metal than in a lot of other genres.

Please explain how Megadeth's, Motorhead's, Pantera's And Metallica's (early music) sucked.

This sounds like a show put together and paid for by Duff and Slash.... "Here's $$, Now tell them that song sucks...TELL THEM!!!"

Because they did

Look, other people have opinions too!? ?;)

You have your opinions he has his...

VH1 must be desperate for ratings, so they ue GNR's name on another countdown. 

So original!   :o

 :rofl:

and you don't think your comment was closed-minded?

Vh1 Programming= Third-rate actors and comedians and 80's and 90's has-beens giving their opinions on things they are abosutely not qualified to give opinions on. Knock the video, I get it, but not the song....don't fuck around with song.

Here's a concept: a music video channel that just plays music viedos: no VJ's, no pop culture schlock programming...just continuous videos.

First of all, Guns N' Roses are/were a hard rock band.? Not a heavy metal one.? And even the band's hardest stuff from Appetite really couldn't be considered "metal."

If the assclowns at VH1 don't like Estranged, that's one thing.? But don't knock it for something it isn't.? Take it for what it is.

And in The Dude's opinion, it's a masterpiece.? :smoking:

VH1 countdowns blow!! Today I saw the Top 50 Great Rock Songs. The top 10 consisted of gigantic bands like GNR,Led Zep,Queen,Rolling Stones,etc,and the number 1 was...you guessed it,Smells like teen spirit. 
   I'm not trying to create another Nirvana debate,but come on!!!!!!!!!


Who cares what some idiots that want to look cool say?? We all know Estranged is one of the best songs in music history

Estranged is Heavy Metal...now I've heard'em all!

Estranged is fucking excellent and the video is totally random where as it doesn't follow dont cry and November rain I think its cool really

Just because they use the word metal doesn't mean tehy're implying everything is metal.. People consider everything that was on headbanger's ball to be metal, but when I was a youngster it was from winger to trixter to tesla to gnr to megadeth ,to metallica..  The thing is their concept of metal for their show is anything that is rock, or at least in hard rock category..

How many times have hair bands been called hair metal..?
To me metal is pantera, old metallica, maiden, megadeth, slayer and bands on that level..

SO just keep in mind they don't want a rock, hard rock ,clasic rock, emo, grunge, punk, hair, etc in all seperatec ountdowns, metal moments is just a cool name that is symbolizing rock n roll's categorys...

I'm sure everyone gets pissed attheir bands on the list, but it just a meaningless list just made for fun, I wouldn't sit here and try to analyze each part of it..

smell's like teen spirit will always be higher then november rain, and estranged will never make any top 100 list, it's just the way it is, is it right NO, but these are labels and the way people see thigns and there's nothign to be done, take it for what it is, A LIST..

This is heavy metal the way i see it...
http://www.robhalford.com/audio/mutations/01%20-%20Into%20the%20Pit%20%5BLive%5D.mp3

estranged is in some way least metal, cuz it's not metal :P

GNR was a Hardrock/metal/heavy band...  Theyr songs couldent be put in any category. Some songs was straight Rock n roll, others was metal, other was hard rock! They made alot of different music

Perhaps some would consider what can be defined as "hard rock" vs. "heavy metal" subjective.

I don't.

Much of what made Guns N' Roses so successful was because they were a definitive example of what a hard rock band is.? Very much in the vein of Led Zeppelin or Aerosmith.

Heavy Metal is more Black Sabbath, Ozzy Osbourne, and Metallica.

Even when I think of GN'R's hardest stuff, I can't think of anything I would consider heavy metal.

Just my opinion but I'm with VH1 on this one, I cringe at the thought of that song.

I cringe at the thought of people who cringe at the thought of that song.  :D

Motorhead isn't metal. They are the bridge between punk and metal.

And Megadeth, Pantera, and Metallica sucked because they all sounded the same. If they were only one band and only came out with one album, it probably would have been good. But these bands wrote the same songs over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Several are still around. Still writing the same songs or playing nu-metal.

VH1 are not the critical authority on music. We all know that.

Estranged is one of the great timeless songs of rock.

Estranged a metal song???

Yeah, if you compare the video to November Rain and Don`t cry, it is not as good as those.  But it is by far not a bad video. If you want to see a bad video, just turn on MTV at any moment provided they are playing videos.

wow, Estranged was the song with which Gnr won me over. I think these 'critics' confuse maturation with overindulgence. there was alot going on in this song and it was wonderfully constructed.

Estranged is GN'R's best work.  I hope the new bands "epic" songs match it's greatness.  VH1 revolves around hair bands, so I don't take this as a bad thing.  Just too many crazy dolphins involved.

The funny thing is that when VH1 was on and this show was on, I told my brother that I prayed to the Heavens that "Estranged" wouldn't get on the countdown, even though I had a hunch that it would. Turns out I was saying that at video #33 and then Estranged made an "undignified" return to TV when it was played at 32 with critics bashing it left and right with all kinds of irrational statements and arguments.
I think this may have turned out to be a great thing for GNR and for the song because it does give it airtime and promotion - yeah its a bit pathetic, it should have gone down as the greatest video/song of all time in my opinion, but Im glad that since this video has suffered a bad fate from the day it stopped playing on MTV's rotation in 1993, at least it gets a mentioning now. Any promotion is good promotion at this point for GNR and the video and the song. I hope people get into it - that was Axl's dream.

The fact that this song even makes the list of "awesomely bad metal songs" shows what kind of impact it ultimately had on the public. I have a feeling that Axl and GNR had worn out the public's emotional interest when November Rain, Don't Cry and Yesterdays had played out Axl's emotions on video by the time Estranged came out. People also have a hard time relating to Axl's problems as demonstrated by the lyrics and content of the song and video. Axl did not publicize well that he had nearly committed suicide in 1990 and that he was in therapy dealing with some incredible traumas, despite his interviews with many magazine publications. Axl was still putting up a Rock God front and so people couldn;t connect the hard hitting image of Axl and his style with his true emotions. As someone commented tonite on the program, Why is Axl Rose bitching when he had girls sending their vaginas to him by postal express? I wonder so myself at times, but its definitly clear that his emotions which had brought him to the top of the rock world ultimately brought him and the band down as well. Something bothered the man - the only ones who know the real truth about the guy are his bandmates and his ex-girlfriends and I still find it strange as fuck how little they have exposed of the guy. I'll bet that its out of pity, because Axl is not a totalitarian leader. People can say whatever they want about him and get away with it. He's a geniune "sweetheart" who got carried away by some harsh elements in his life and those who wanted to take advantage of him for that and his talents and money and so these people feel bad about the guy and just don't talk about him and let him be.

By the way, as I've stated in the past - I broke down and cried when I first watched the video in 1999 on the "Welcome to the Videos" compilation. No Don't Cry for me, Im much better now and I got GNR's music to thank for nearly all of it.
I consider that moment to be the point where I became an ultimate GNR fan and I never looked back or looked to any other source for a greater music because I never had to again. I believe the cinematic piece to be the "most emotive video" (as personally stated by Andy Morahan in the "making of fucking videos - Estranged") ever in the MTV era and the song is indeed a very powerful one that has changed my life and given me a hope. The melodies are incredibles, the solos amazing and Axl's whispering at the beginning of the song sets the tone for a song that was unlike anything that GNR had ever recorded up until that point. I wish these "critics" (who are really rock journalists and comedians who are paid for a living to bash those with success and fame) would do a little research in the life of the guy who was behind many of the concepts and songs that made GNR the ultimate in Rock N' Roll in their time. Perhaps they'd have a better understanding of Axl's genius and know that unlike nearly all of the songs on that list, that is one that wasn't pulled out of his ass and that it really means something.

I look forward to the day that Axl gets his dignity back and can answer up to these haters. If he never does, then at least I got a treasure of Rock N' Roll that most people are too shallow and objective to understand in their lives.

 : ok:
MNR

estranged is an amazing song and video... fuck vh1

 :rofl:
mark.. i was in the middle of reading your wonderful post when you hit us with this quote and cracked me the fuck up!!!  :rofl:

ok.. now back to reading the rest of your post....
uh-hum... hm... aww...

Excellent post.
*applause*
*wipes tears from eye*  (okay.. maybe some of 'em are from when I was cracking up  :P )

Now I wanna go watch Estranged
Great song... and video also...   very touching and yeah... something that actually makes you think
I've listened to this song on repeat for hours at a time.... through the night in fact on many occasions...
Just beautiful
And the piano solo.. just beautiful
Axl's delivery...
oh I freakin' love the Tokoyo Illusions video live performance of this...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/gnraxlrosette/Axl%20Performs%20Estranged/estranged25.jpg)
Axl delivers this with such emotion...
and I love how he just gets lost in the song....
*sigh*

You make an excellent and valid point about these so called 'critics'... it is their 'job' to make fun of shit to try and get a laugh
Fuck them.

Makes me think about what we will endure when CD comes out.  ::)

the song and video are much too deep for the average music fan, thats the only explanation i can think of.


'axl's with dolphins" what the fuck" im like use your brain and figure out what that dolphin means.

when i see axl with the dolphin to me that means he found inner peace and clarity in life, critics and narrow minded folks see axl chillin with a dolphin, but oh well screw the narrow minded!

A funny quote, assuming the person was joking. Otherwise it's rather sad..  ::)


What are you, like 12? If ignorance is bliss I'd say you're one happy dude.

you're absolutely right. guns n roses was never near this kind of music.
awesome track btw!!!  : ok:

Estranged has two awesome guitar solos and great intro riffs... Great song... Why is everyone bothered about wht VH1 says anyway?

etrenged is ARt.GREAT song

I think the timing of the single/video contributed to Estranged being on this list more than any content. Gnr were suffering through a critical and popular backlash at the time, antagonized by a bloated, overlong tour and a perception that they had lost the edge which had inspired their catclysmic rise to the top of the rock world.

Being an extremely personal song, following in the steps of at least 3 other extremely personal songs, Estranged took alot of flack for being self indulgent, redundant and bombastic when just months earlier NR was being hailed as one of the greatest rock epics for many of the same reasons.  The difference was of course the different perception of GnR relevance in the world of music. 

estranged is probably the best song from use your illusion2 (my opinion)....so does that mean use your illusion2 is shit!? well!? no it isn't. Vhi you suck so much.

Does anyone know the other songs on that list??

let all these poor "metal-lovers" speak about music, but don't pay attention to them because they don't know what music is about. Their only goal in life in drinking beer and listen to noize and critizice every songs wich isn't noize. Generally metal-lovers hate piano, because it's not enough "agressive" for them :hihi: as if music must always be "aggressive" to be listened to? :rofl: Hopefully Guns n' Roses is not a metal band, never was, and never will be. oh yeah and I repeat it a second time: Metal sucks ;D
Long life to...Rock n' Roll.

Tell us what music is about Nesquick (Beethoven)!? ;D And are you a guns n roses fan that doesn't drink?? :rofl: fuck man thats all they were about when they started. they always had a beer or JD in their hands back then. look at the group shot on the back of AFD axl has a Heinaken in his hand! I love G'n'R but alot of their tunes are just "noize" as well buddy.

Anyway I don't consider G'n'R to be heavy metal. And Megadeth and MEtallica sounded alot the same early on because Dave Mustaine wrote alot of their original metallica tunes man! Pantera doesn't sound anything like Megadeth or MEtallica. listen to the bands before you talk about them. I don't listen to Motorhead so I can't comment on them. but none of those 4 bands are anything like G'n'R so it's a redundant comparison.

Estranged is a good tune but not my favorite, the video is weird and the dolphin 'clicking' at the end is really dumb, I laugh every time I see it. the part with the swat team in Axl's house rules though.

I like heavy-metal but Piano once in a while is good, hell, most of the stuff I play around my daughter is classical. but guitar is my thing baby! I bet you didn't start listening to Guns because of the killer piano licks :D did you? it was probably the whining Les Paul and Axl's sceething "noize" from Estranged, Sweet Child or Don't Cry that got you, wasn't it, you don't have to lie, its ok we all understand? :-\

to tell you the truth, I have absolutely never considered GN'R as beeing in the same kind of league that metallica, megadeath, panthera etc... this is not the same music style at all. It's like if you compared Queen to Linkin Park. Where is the link? It sounds totally different. For me, Guns n' Roses is "classic-rock" music, it sounds nowhere near of Metal. It's Rock n' Roll. They have a blues-rock approach in their music. and their sound is way more accessible. It's totally different. The closest band that can be considered as "metal" in the GN'R world is Velvet Revolver. it's barely metal indeed. but Guns n' Roses is nowhere near of that kind of sound. Don't forget that Velvet Revover doesn't sound at all like Guns n' Roses.

There are some diference between gunsnroses and oldguns

Gunsnroses are about, oh my god, madagascar, chinese democracy, silk worms etc

and it's not actually in the metalcategory. hard rock is that it?

Exactly


yeah and because it's "classic rock" the kiddies won't be overly fond of it, I'm thinking, and it remains to be seen if the blues type of sound will remain with 3/4 of the G'n'R writing core gone.


no they sound like STP on crack. :hihi: No wait I didn't mean that. (how was that for an oxymoron :) ) they sound like STP with a different Guitarist. :beer:

I am really digging VR though, they've really surpassed my expectations. I've always liked STP and G'n'R though so it was pretty much a given that I would like them (in my mind anyway)

I couldnt agree more with this statement...to answer whoever asked, this is why I hate Vh1 and all it's little lists and flashback shows: the people who are doing the commentary are not people who i believe (espeically comedians from bad tv shows) are credible enought to be cosndiered arbiters of anything music-related...their quips aren't even funny. but i digress....I think there's a consesus from many gnr fans that Estranged was Axl's artistic high point as a song....regardless of what you think of the video. Even some casual fans I work with consider it the best GnR song they've ever heard...so the proof lies with the fans.

I couldn't believe my fucking eyes reading this. I always thought the song was amazing. Besides I have never thought of GnR as a "metal" band anyway. To me they have always fallen into the bluesy hard rock vein. In their time they were a modern stones or zeppelin. And if they want to rag on the piano solo as not being rock n roll or metal or whatever the fuck they want to try to categorize the band cheaply into they should listen to let it bleed.

Holy shit nesquick, you just came up with the dumbest post of the year.. I'm laughing my ass off! Gongrats!! : ok:

(EDIT: Never mind then, if you honestly can't see how ridiculous it is what you're saying up there, I'll just try to ignore you in the future.)

skeletor are you in love with me? you seems to be on this board just for my posts. leave me alone man...
Are you behind me because I said metal sucks and that it didn't please you? well, I will repeat you that a second time, open your eyes: "Metal Sucks". Do you want another one? I can even put "metal sucks" on my profile if you want, just to show you I don't mid if you didn't like the fact I don't like metal. When I have something to say, I say it. This is the way I have always worked.  ;D

Yes he is, now back on topic.




/jarmo

ok, no problem. 8)

The funny thing? Just saw @ MTV Brasil: November Rain is the 5th wrost song ever to them. They said: "the song is Stairway to Heaven-ish, but several times worse. And the "worst moment" was the ending, with Axl's vocals.

Yeah, MTV Brasil is full of shit and their VJs are crap. They have been slamming VR and GNR for no reason. Bunch of idiots.  :rant:

Just an FYI, but the "women are sending Axl their vaginas in the mail" comment was made by Nick Kroll, who i went to college with. He is actually, incredibly funny.
i wouldn't get too bent out of shape about Estranged making the list. we all know its, if not THE best, one of the best Guns songs. besides, VH1 usually gives Guns big props..
i'm surprised they didn't put November Rain in its place.  :-\ it fits all the criteria (long, bloated, sensitive) but isn't as good a song.

i dont like mtv. simply said. they had the number one band Nirvana out of 20 (GN'R was second, yay?) so It goes to show what dumbasses they are.

I like the song sometimes, but also find it to be very boring others. I can see how this became a selection for the list. No need to rag on VH1 for not liking it. GNR is going to need them if they ever plan on getting airplay on TV.

I'm also at a loss about this - I thought VH1 was attacking the song not the video - which I love anyhow.

Estranged is GN'R's best work.  I didn't know a band could actually make a song that great.  It surpasses November Rain and Coma, which are two other great GN'R makes.  When the song winds down in the end and the last couple of minutes are laid back.  It's like GN'R is reflecting back on all the good times they've had leading up to that point.  VH1 is crazy, if there is a bad GN'R song it should of been Since I Don't Have You!!!!

I think "Estranged" is GN'R's all-time best song. It's one of the greatest songs ever written, IMHO. At first I was pissed to see that it made this list, but what can ya do?

Thing is with a such a unique and huge song as Estranged you need to "take it out there"  and sell it.  They did it with November Rain, they played the VMA's, played it -  i would guess at nearly every live show.  With Estranged they didn't push it like they could have.  It came out when the band were not seeing eye to eye. 

The video - i think it's great, but as the song was meant to be a part of a trilogy - the video didn't seem part of it. They also re-used the Dolphin imagery for Since I don't have you - which if i remember rightly came out  not long after Estranged appeared.

I don't think they played it live as often as they should have ( i don't know facts and figures but it definatly wasn't as regular as NR).

And to top it all off they didn't give it a Propper single release, so they didn't give it a chance really. Not in the UK anyway.  You had to buy the import.

Estranged, like Coma, will always remain songs the fans love because they - as someone else has said - they are not your average rock songs, they challenge a little more thought than that.  And they are like our little gems.  It would be a shame if we never heard those live again one day.

From what i have seen i think MTV and VH1 are more into their reality tv than the music anyway.

Well said St.Heathen.
I feel like calling them right up or starting some sort of protest. >:(
Just now on my car ride home, before I read the news,
I was listening to Estranged and I said to myself "This has got to be GNR's best song".
And now they shovel this garbage in my face!
Well just because Dee Snyder says so doesn't mean shit.

you know i thin sometimmes we have to ignore people, and this time we need to ignore vh1; for me the song and the video for estrangedrock, i've loved them from the first time i saw it back when they still played videos on mtv. if others dont like it, well fuck'em im not gonna let tha tbother me, and vh1 wnats to name it one of the awsomely bad songs, well fuck 'em too...

That's a little fucked up, heh.
I could care-less if they make fun of the video, but talking about the song is just a little odd.
I thought the song was really great. *shrug*

If The Dude may digress for a moment...

"Velvet Revolver: the rock band that redeemed GN'R."

Surely you jest.

 :yes:

I first listened to Let it bleed after hearing the UYI's (because GNR introduced me to the Stones), and I felt it was an inspiration for the UYI's.  It's really sad when people criticize GNR using piano, but the Stones get to use all that and more - and made some of their greatest songs with it!  But as killingvector said above, it was public perception of the band that hurt the song.

the thing about people saying how guns shouldn't have used pianos and horns and all sorts of shit they used besides the basic rock instruments one the illusion twins is because people wanted a new appetite. i don't get it.why can't a band experiment? that's what makes a good band. if you play the same kind of music all the time, people get bored, so the illusion twins is in my opinion an experiment, a very succesful one, a very huge step forward when it come to the band growing up as musicians.
estranged is pure genius-the lyrics are fantastic;you can really see how axl isn't  a violent empty-headed junkie that lots of people take him for, but a very talanted guy who just came to one point in his life where he just wants to straighten up some thing with himself.
it's a very matture song. and about the piano solo;it's totally okay,and by the way the guitar solos were a total masterpiece. and even axl himself thanked slash for the killer guitar melodies. so don't get upset about some idiots saying how estranged sucks. cuz everyone here agrees with you that it's a fuckin great song.  :-*

I agree. I think piano on rythmic is fantastic.

The second I heard the Estranged piano solo I went straight to my keyboard and learned it key by key.
It is a beautiful solo that should never ever have been bashed like it was on this show.

I watched part of it and didn't see what they had to say about "estranged" but they also mentioned Danzig in there which I thought sucked. I don't love Danzigs solo stuff like I love the misfits but I mean I thought "mother" was a cool song. And a very weird thing was when they were recaping up to that point every song sounded like really cheesy, pop, glam, make-you-throw-up-in-your-mouth, hair metal except for "estranged" and "mother". It could be just because I like those songs and not the others but they really didn't seem to fit anywhere near every other song on there, which probably deserved to be there. Of course I am sure theres a RATT message board somewhere saying the opposite. Just much much fewer people on it.

What did they say about "Mother?"  That song just plain rocks.

I can't believe that Estranged got on that list. Sure, all us Guns fans KNOW its one of the best songs in the world, but whoever watched that show who ISN'T a Guns fan will probably be influenced... Its like when Ville Valo from HIM said onstage that he hated Axl. I used to like HIM, but I went off them a bit (before he said this), because their music just didn't do anything for me anymore, and then he goes and says that, so I gave up on liking that band. GUNS N' ROSES FOREVER!!!!
May I just say that I'm not happy unless I hear Estranged at LEAST once a day. I NEED that song! And screw the people who think the video sucks, I LOVE IT! It rules! So fucking what if it was over done! They got their money's worth! More money spent means better quality! Axl wanted a dolphin swimming in mid air, and Slash playing guitar on top of the water and down the street, and there is no fucking way that less money would have gotten that same graphics quality! The best costs a lot! And if you have the money, why not spend it on something that means a helluva fucking lot to you! If you want something soooo much, and it costs loads, and you know you have the money and YOU want it, you BUY it! You don't go "oh, but it costs a lot so I won't buy it" you go "Hey! There's that thing I wanted! Its a bit expensive, but oh well! I can make more money! Here's the $$$s mister, thankyou very much!"
FUCK YOU VH1!!! And you too MTV Brazil!!
To Everyone Out There Who Doesn't Know:
Estranged rocks. NR rocks. Listen, and learn!

3.5 million dollars for that video over ten years ago.. Song is killer but the video sucked..

this is the greatest video I have ever seen with the "november rain" one. I'm totally into the epic kind of things. And money is made to be spent, so if Axl wanted to put 3.5 million $$ in this video let him spend 3.5 million $$, I don't see where the problem is.

I like estranged a lot, one of my favorite songs of all time.  But I guess I would rather see Estranged in the top 40 worst metal songs of all time, then lets say, Chinese Democracy in the top 40 worst albums of all time, when it comes out.

Who?    ???

http://www.himonline.tv
He's a good looking guy, but he's an asshole. And the band are OK for a while, until you realize that they're not actually THAT good, and they don't satisfy you anymore.
Verdict: HIM = OKokokokbadbadbadbadawfulawfulawfulawfulAWFULSHIIIIIT! (that's what my mind did with my view on them)

What does one have to do with the other, you haven't even heard the album or held it in your hand :no:

the estranged video isn't that bad, but i would have liked it more if they hadn't have said that it's the third part of the don't cry-november rain-estranged triology, and let's face it, it ain't got NO FUCKING thing to do with the previous two videos.
But i love the concert pics from the video. they're awsome.