Here Today... Gone To Hell!

170 People Killed in Madrid Explosions!!!!! ?:'(

I'm speechless. This is my homwtown. Fortunately none of my friends/relatives have been hurt but this is by far the biggest terrosit attack the U.E has ever suffered. The city is a total chaos. There's police, fire squad, ambulance, authoirites everywhere...footage on Tv is shocking. ?



MADRID, Spain - Powerful explosions rocked three Madrid train stations Thursday just days before Spain's general elections, killing 170 rush-hour commuters and wounding more than 500 in what officials called the deadliest attack ever by the Basque separatist group ETA.
 ? ?

"This is a massacre," government spokesman Eduardo Zaplana said.


Two bombs exploded around 7:30 a.m. local time in a commuter train arriving at Atocha station, a bustling hub for subway and longer-distance trains in Spain's capital. Single blasts also rocked trains or platforms at two stations on a commuter line leading to Atocha.


"If anyone was in doubt, this shows the true nature of ETA, a Nazi organization which tortures and murders people," said Gaspar Llamazares, leader of the United Left party.


Other Spanish officials and media also blamed ETA. But Arnold Otegi, leader of Batasuna, an outlawed Basque party linked to the armed separatist group, denied it was behind the blasts and suggested "Arab resistance" elements were responsible.


Arnold Otegi told Radio Popular in San Sebastian that ETA always phones in warnings before it attacks. The interior minister said there was no warning before Thursday's attack.



Edit: Edited subject to make it clear that this is an old thread. /jarmo

Horrible.  :(

 :no:



/jarmo

Of course as a rule there's never a warning before terrorist attacks. Anyway it's so horrible, my God! Blood stiffens.  :-[

ETA normally gives warnings before bombs. Thats why some people is still doubting this was the work of ETA. That and fact that they haven't taken responsibility for the attack yet.

In any case, terrible

Really sad.....my best high school friend lives in Madrid...God don?t let him be on any list please! I hope they catch the people behind this.

Exactly. ETA's "modus operandi" doesn't have anything to do with today's attacks. That and the fact the the bombs used don't match any of ETA's.

We are 4 days short of a presidential election. There's no official word yet on who's behind the attacks, however, the Gov't may proclaim ETA  is behind the attacks. It is common knowledge Spain supported the Iraq war and has always stood behind George Bush. However, spanish citizens have never supported the conflict. I guess like pretty much every other european country and citizen as well. During that time, gathering and protestants ( in Spain) against the war were constantly all over the news.

I'm not saying the Gov't s hiding information on purpose, but there is some evidence to be taken into consideration. ETA always proclaims thier attacks. So far, they have denied any involvement on todays' massacre. If these attacks had been perpetrated by any Arabic terrorist organization, this gov't will definitely struggle to be re-elected. ( so far, at least until today, this gov't had big change of winning the election again).

Anyway, everything will clear out as days go by.


My sincerest condolences to the victim's families and friends.

It is horrible - each time we look at the news the casualty numbers are higher.  :'(

Bombings on Madrid Trains Kill 190    


By Daniel Trotta

MADRID (Reuters) - Simultaneous bomb blasts ripped through four packed commuter trains in Madrid on Thursday, killing 190 people and injuring 1,247 in Europe's bloodiest attack for more than 15 years.


There was no immediate claim of responsibility for the 10 rush-hour blasts three days before Spain votes in a general election, but Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's center-right government blamed the Basque separatist group ETA.


An Interior Ministry source said the type of explosive was one commonly used by ETA. But the attack triggered fears in world financial markets that Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda could be behind it.


Officials brushed aside suggestions that Muslim militants angry at Spain's support for the U.S.-led war in Iraq could have planted the bombs, which tore people including a baby to shreds and left pools of blood on wrecked trains, tracks and buildings.


"It is absolutely clear that the terrorist organization ETA was seeking an attack with wide repercussions," Interior Minister Angel Acebes told a news conference.


U.S. intelligence agencies said it was too early to say who was responsible, but saw the hallmarks of both ETA and al Qaeda.


"There are characteristics of each. You have multiple attacks, multiple explosions in different locations in a short period of time which is very al Qaeda-ish," said one U.S. official, who declined to be identified.


"The train was cut open like a can of tuna," ambulance driver Enrique Sanchez told reporters at the huge Atocha station in central Madrid. "We didn't know who to treat first. There was a lot of blood, a lot of blood."


"TORN TO BITS"


Passenger Ana Maria Mayor's voice cracked as she told reporters: "I saw a baby torn to bits."


The other blasts occurred at El Pozo station in southern Madrid and at Santa Eugenia in the southeast of the capital.


A somber Aznar called on Spaniards, who have protested in their hundreds of thousands against past attacks by ETA, to take to the streets on Friday and vowed the government would arrest the "criminals" behind the bombings.


The radical Basque party Batasuna, accused by the government of being an integral part of ETA, said it "absolutely rejected" the attack and was convinced ETA was not responsible.


ETA (Euskadi ta Askatasuna) has killed around 850 people since 1968 in its fight for a separate Basque homeland in northwest Spain and southwest France, and has been branded a terrorist group by the United States and the European Union (news - web sites).


Late last month, police arrested two suspected ETA members heading for Madrid with a van containing 500 kg (1,100 lb) of explosives, averting a possible attack.


If the Basque group was responsible for Thursday's bombings, it would be its deadliest attack, far exceeding the 21 people it killed in a supermarket blast in Barcelona in 1987.


It was the biggest death toll in an attack in Europe since December 1988, when a bomb exploded on board a Pan American Boeing 747, bringing it down on the Scottish town of Lockerbie. In all, 270 people died.

   



Aznar called an emergency cabinet meeting and his conservative Popular Party suspended its election campaign, which had focused on a tougher stance against ETA.

Many political analysts said that if ETA was responsible for the attack it would favor the Popular Party in the election because of its hard line against the group.

"If, however, the rumors about al Qaeda gain credence, then things would be perceived in a very different way," said pollster Julian Santamaria. Aznar defied main opposition parties and huge public anti-war sentiment to back the Iraq war.

President Bush joined other leaders in condemning the bombings.

European shares suffered their worst fall of 2004 as the attack spooked investors already worried about economic recovery. U.S. stocks and the dollar fell after the bombings and mixed economic data.

Some experts on ETA said the bombings did not fit the group's usual profile for attacks. ETA has frequently warned in advance of its attacks.

Last month ETA declared a cease-fire limited to the northeastern region of Catalonia.

In October, two audio tapes purportedly from bin Laden said the al Qaeda had the "right to respond at any suitable time and place" against countries backing Washington over Iraq. (Additional reporting by Marta Calleja, Elisabeth O'Leary and Julia Hayley)

http://news.yahoo.com/

--



/jarmo

How fucking pointless?!

People make me sick.

Rest In Peace anybody that was unfortunate enough to be caught in an argument between a select group of people taken to unnecessary levels.

Purported Qaeda Letter Claims Spain Bombings-Paper

DUBAI (Reuters) - A letter purporting to come from Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network claimed responsibility for train bombings in Spain on Thursday, calling them strikes against "crusaders," a London-based Arabic newspaper said.
The Spanish government has said Basque separatists were the main suspect in the bombings of four trains early on Thursday that killed 190 people.

But the country's interior minister held open the possibility of a militant Islamist link on Thursday evening when he told a newspaper conference that a suspect van had been found containing detonators and an Arabic-language tape. He said, however, militant Basque separatists remained chief suspects.

The London-based al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper faxed to Reuters' Dubai bureau a copy of a letter purporting to come from the "Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades." The group aligns itself to al Qaeda, blamed by Washington for September 2001 attacks on the United States.

"We have succeeded in infiltrating the heart of crusader Europe and struck one of the bases of the crusader alliance," said the letter which called the attacks "Operation Death Trains."

There was no way of authenticating the letter.

The newspaper received similar letters from the same brigade claiming responsibility on behalf of al Qaeda for a November bombing of two synagogues in Turkey and the August bombing of the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad.

Spain backed the United States in its invasion of Iraq, drawing the opprobrium of militant Islamist groups.

www.reuters.com

What makes a person plant bombs to kill hundreds of civilians? Its baffling and very distressing.

and I'm sure Bush will do absolutely nothing about it.

Chinasky, do you know why the Spanish govt supported the war if the Spanish people were against it?   It cant be because of Bush's 'wonderful' oratorical skills...

Was the govt hoping to get some kind of financial deal in the rebuilding of post-war Iraq?


Mine too  :'(

I hope like hell that's true or everyone will be bitching about the US again.  ::)

Funny  :) there are many theories behind it but if you want to know mine here it comes. Spain, although has been around as a country for nearly 2,000 years, has been a democratic nation for only 26. We are pretty young. Spain has had a major growth over the past 20 years, being ranked now amongst the me top 10 countries in the world.  This conflict ( war in Iraq) was the perfect chance to "hang out" with the big dogs for the first time ( US and UK). Our president ( J.M Aznar) would go to every " secret meeting " along with Tony Blair and George Bush. It was our chance to get the respect and consideration our Gov't thought we deserved. Also, the fact that we have arrested many Al Qaeda terrorists in Spain added more commitment to the cause.


No, it's not like we are in need of some financial aid - like I said earlier, Spain is the 8th most powerful country inthe wordl - but at the end it's just a matter of power and power brings more $$$.

Ahhh - perhaps Spain is causing a lot of grief for Al Qaeda.  Well, if they are behind the attacks, that is very stupid.  I visited the south of Spain last August to see some friends. We went to Granada and Alhambra - 2 beautiful places with Muslim history!

Excellent answer, and it's the damned truth.  It's a double-edged sword for the Bush administration.  If they acted on this, people would bitch about the U.S. meddling in foreign affairs.  If the U.S. doesn't do anything, people will bitch about the lack of U.S. support.  It's a lose-lose situation.

Those on the planet who are bitching the most (bitching is not the word, hating is more accurate) about the US are the muslim fundamentalists...those reponsible for 9.11, those maybe responsible for 3.11. The sad thing is that, if Al Gay Qaida is behind those attacks, 200 spanish people ae dead because their government has followed the Bush administration in their great War In Iraq. I sincerely hope Al Gay Qaida has nothing to do with it, for the sake of international peace, but we'll know more when elections have passed in Spain.

i agree, bush cant win here

lets see paris get bombed by terrorist then they would have maybe wished they wouldve supported the united states

terrorism isnt a US problem its a worldwide problem, thats what bush wanted, everyone bans together they can destroy terrorism
bush is called evil, etc etc when he was right from the beginning

i think alot of people owe bush an apology for second guessing his intentions on the war vs terrorism

bush wont do anything about it new fiona? cmon dude please!!!!!!!!!!!! he is already doin something about it, hell we got sadaam bin laden to follow, bush has already done something and has been doing something about it for a long time now, i just wish now maybe he'd get some support!
maybe this will open every countries eyes to how big of a threat this is

what the fuck did spain do to deserve this?

terrorist have no rhyme or reason thats why they are so dangerous

a good post. I agree with that.

I just didn't get that when there were all these people barking at Bush and his war plans against Irak and Saddam. It was needed to do and thanks for him we have now one dictator less. I agree with you all that we really can't win this battle against terrorists but we can fight hard against it and that is what we all should do. With one big heart, if you all know what I'm meaning. Maybe now we understant that this isn't just America's and Bush's problem. This problem concerns the whole world. For Europe, it's time to wake up! We need to co-operate and that way to try to prevent for these kind of disasters happening again.

"to kill the life of one innocent person, is looked at as killing all mankind...to save the life of one person, would be like saving all of mankind" thats a quote from the quran, the holy book of islam

if this was muslim fundamentalists, its a shame for tarnishing an image of the worlds largest religion, cause i've studied and wrote many papers on the religions of the world, and like to think that i'm somewhat knowledgeable in the subject matters...and these terrorists are really reading between the lines here on what they believe is right and wrong especially coming from islam, and the meaning of 'islam is submission to god' derived from the arabic word 'salam' which means peace...go figure

my heart goes out to all the innocent people that were lost and those that lost loved ones.




rock n' roll

innocent lives takin for no reason! i think war is absolutly stupid... Rest In Peace to the innocent people. Everytime something like this happends it feels like we are one step closer to world war 3...

Wow - I didn't realize there were so many muslims on this forum!

I don't think actually there are a lot of muslims on this board (yeah, I see the irony). I said they're the ones on the planet bitching "the most" about the US. I didn't say they were the only ones. There are two things I hate: anti-French and anti-American bashing. I personally criticize the Bush administration for some things they've done I disagree with, I don't bash the whole american people. I don't agree with all the French government is doing either.

Spain's intelligent services say radical muslims are most likely behind those unbearable attacks in Spain:

Report: Spanish Intelligence Sees Muslims Behind Attack

MADRID (Reuters) - Spain's intelligence service is "99 percent certain" that radical Muslims and not the Basque separatist group ETA are responsible for the train bombings that killed 200 people, a Spanish radio station reported on Saturday.
Private radio SER, whose owners have links to the opposition Socialist Party, said the National Intelligence Center (CNI) believes the evidence points to an Islamic group, and that 10 to 15 people left bombs on the trains and fled, the radio said.

The center-right government, facing an election on Sunday, has said ETA is the prime suspect.

www.reuters.com


200 hundred innocent people most likely died because their government supported the Bush administration in the War in Iraq. That's fucked up.

As I mentioned earlier, there's no official word on who's behind the attacks yet. There are two possibilities being investigated at the moment. Al Qaeda and ETA. Why would Al Qaeda attack Spain??  Spain supported The US during the war in Irak. Al qaeda members recently commented on Al Jazhira ( can't really spell it well... Qatar TV) every country involved in the war, could be a target. Spain was involved, so there you go. Another possibility, ETA. The basque separatist group with more than 800 deaths in Spain over the past 40 years.

Many people are more aware now of terrorism ( specially in america) because of 9-11, but there are hundreds of organizations such as ETA, Al qaeda, Sendero Luminoso ( peru), IRA, tamil tigers...who have been around and killed hundreds of inocent lives around the world just so they could justify their stupid cause.

Terrorism in America has also been merciless. 9-11, the infamous Oklahoma incident...no country is safe these days so I welcome any effort to prevent ( won't say stop it cause it is nearly  impossible) it, the more countries involved, the better.

I don't think George Bush should get involved in this particular case. This is a internal affair and should be handled by spanish authorities. Besides, we don't know if Al qaeda is responsible yet. American authoirites have already expressed their condolences and are willing to help spanish authorities in the investigation if required.

On a side note. Impressive how last night 2 million people protested against terrorism in Madrid as the rain poured down. I have read today, it didn't rain in Madrid last night. That was the Madrid sky breaking down in tears.

Yeah I've read more than 8 million spanish people hit the streets last night...here's a beautiful picture from that night:

(http://www.gnrfrance.net/Divers/madrid.jpg)

This is the front page of a French daily newspaper called "Lib?ration". "Tous Madril?nes". Tous = All: Madril?ne is someone who lives in Madrid.

Peace out! :peace:

Spain Arrests Five in Madrid Bombings    


By JOHN LEICESTER, Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain - Spain arrested three Moroccans and two Indians on Saturday in connection with the Madrid train bombings, the strongest indication yet of a possible Islamic link to the attack on one of Washington's staunchest allies in Iraq.



The announcement by Interior Minister Angel Acebes came just hours before polls were to open Sunday in general elections weighed down by increasingly politicized debate over who carried out Europe's deadliest terrorist assault in 15 years.


The arrests came amid opposition charges that the government, which had blamed Basque separatists for the bombings, was concealing details of the investigation into Spain's worst terror attack.


A demonstration in Madrid drew a crowd of 5,000 protesters outside the ruling party headquarters who held up signs saying, "Paz" ? or "peace" in Spanish ? and "No more cover-up."


Demonstrators said they also believed the government might be hiding information about a connection to Islamic militant groups, blaming Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's government for making Spain a target with its support for the war in Iraq.


One banner read: "Aznar, because of you we all pay."


Acebes, speaking at news conference, said the five suspects were all detained around Madrid and that one "could be related to Moroccan extremist groups." Two Spanish citizens of Indian origin also were being questioned.


The five were arrested in connection with a cell phone inside an explosives-packed gym bag found on one of the four bombed rush-hour trains, the minister said. The attacks killed 200 people and injured 1,500.


Acebes did not mention al-Qaida and said that the investigation was continuing. Asked whether ETA was no longer considered a suspect, he said: "We must not rule anything out."


Police are still investigating all avenues," he added. "This opens an important avenue."


Spain was a target of Moroccan terrorism last year, with its citizens among 33 people killed in suicide bombings in Casablanca at a Spanish restaurant and Jewish targets. Twelve suicide bombers also died.


Before the arrests were announced, police had said Saturday that they were hunting for three men seen wearing ski masks and carrying backpacks toward the rail line where the trains were bombed. The government also said autopsies conducted so far on victims showed no signs of suicide bombings ? a hallmark of Islamic militants.


Mourners began burying the 200 victims on Saturday, filling Madrid's two main funeral parlors beyond capacity. Sports facilities also were housing coffins.


The massive police hunt for the bombers was focusing in part on a stolen van found with seven detonators and an audiotape of verses from the Quran. A witness told Associated Press Television News he saw three suspicious men go from the vehicle to a station where three of the four bombed trains originated.


The men's faces were covered but "it wasn't cold ... I thought it was very strange," said the man, who did not want to be named. "They went into the train station ... I tried to follow one of them but I couldn't because he was very fast."


Government suspicions have fallen heaviest on ETA, an armed Basque group that has killed more than 800 people in a four-decade campaign of bombings and assassinations to carve out an independent homeland in northern Spain.


"I have a moral conviction that it was them," Popular Party candidate Mariano Rajoy, picked by Aznar as his successor as prime minister, told the daily El Mundo.

   



Rajoy was 3-5 percentage points ahead of Socialist candidate Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero in opinion polls before they were stopped; the blasts came in the last week of campaigning.

Spain's spy chief, Jorge Dezcallar, quickly denied a radio report that said intelligence agents were "99 percent sure" that Islamic elements, not Basque separatists, were responsible.

Broadcaster Cadena Ser, which is close the opposition Socialist Party, cited sources at the national CNI intelligence agency as saying agents think a 10-15 member cell placed the bombs on the trains and may now have fled the country.

But Dezcallar, a government appointee, told the national news agency Efe that agents do not favor one line of investigation over another.

The finger of blame is politically loaded because of Aznar's support of the U.S.-led campaign that ousted Saddam Hussein (news - web sites). Any al-Qaida involvement in the Madrid bombings could play into the hands of Aznar critics who opposed sending 1,300 peacekeepers to Iraq.

"If it was al-Qaida, this was a reprisal for sending troops to Iraq, where we have no business being," said Damian Garcia, whose 86-year-old father died in the bombings.

But the refusal by Aznar and Rajoy, his former interior minister, to negotiate with ETA could be vindicated if the group is found responsible for the 10 bombs that tore through four rush-hour trains.

The death of a man in a hospital overnight pushed the toll up to 200 Saturday. Of the 1,511 injured, 266 remained hospitalized ? with 17 in critical condition.

Since the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States, only the Bali bombing in Indonesia in October 2002 was deadlier, with 202 people dead.

While the attack's lethal coordination ? 10 explosions within 15 minutes ? pointed to al-Qaida, the lack of evidence of suicide bombers suggested otherwise.

The compressed dynamite used in the attacks, however, is favored by ETA. But ETA attacks have never been so deadly and mostly targeted police and politicians. On Friday, a caller claiming to represent ETA told a Basque newspaper it was not responsible ? the first time ETA is known to have ever denied an attack.

Asked earlier Saturday whether police are investigating any possible collaboration between ETA and Islamic terrorists, the interior minister had said: "Of course, it cannot be ruled out that terrorist organizations, of whatever kind they are, have connections, reach accords and help each other."

___

Associated Press writer Daniel Woolls contributed to this report from Madrid.

http://news.yahoo.com



/jarmo

RIP :(


Well, it's good to see invading Iraq made the world a safer place.  Served as a strong deterrent to "terror" and all.

I'm crying.
I'm crying for two hundred people.
And I'm crying because my goverment tried to use this terrible massacre on their advantage.
The polls open in a couple of hours.

My heart goes out to Madrid and the whole of Spain.  200 innocent people dying for nothing...no-one deserves to die like that...

it was astonishing to see 8 million people on the streets...I hope that unity will last

 :'( :'(

Spain Studies Alleged al-Qaida Tape Claim

By DANIEL WOOLLS, Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain - Investigators analyzed a videotape in which al-Qaida reportedly claimed responsibility for the deadly railway bombings earlier this week amid criticism Sunday that Spanish intelligence blundered in failing to foresee the attack.


With a mourning nation voting in general elections overshadowed by the attacks that killed 200 and wounded 1,500, officials said five suspects arrested Saturday can remain in police custody for 72 hours, after which police would need a court order for an extension.


The suspects ? three Moroccans and two Indians ? are not scheduled to go before an investigating magistrate Sunday, court sources said. Two Spaniards of Indian origin who were picked up for questioning Saturday night in Madrid were not formally arrested but remained in custody Sunday, the Spanish interior ministry said.


Interior Minister Angel Acebes said the five were arrested in connection with a cell phone and prepaid card in an explosives-filled gym bag that was found on one of the four trains bombed on Thursday.


The videotape found in a trash bin Saturday night was being analyzed at a police lab in suburban Madrid, a ministry spokesman said. Only police, the intelligence services and a judge have seen it, he added, although it may be released publicly after it has been analyzed completely.


Moroccan security experts arrived in Spain on Sunday to help in the investigation. Morocco's Interior Ministry said the experts were members of a team that already has spent nearly a year working with Spanish officials to investigate May bombings in Casablanca, Morocco, which killed 33 people.


Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's government initially blamed the Basque separatist group ETA for the rail attacks, even as evidence mounted of an Islamic link.


The opposition accused ministers of withholding information and blaming ETA to blunt suggestions that the government had provoked the rail carnage by backing the Iraq war.


Spain's top selling daily, El Pais, said in an editorial that if an Islamic link to the attacks is proven, "then there ought to be a revision of the security mechanisms, particularly in intelligence, which were incapable of detecting preparations for an attack of such magnitude."


"That our country, and with it Europe, should be converted into a permanent staging post for mass terrorism, the most outstanding example of which was Sept. 11, calls for measures to be taken that meet the challenge," the paper added.


Police say Spain was an important staging ground for the Sept. 11 attacks, along with Germany. An alleged Spain-based al-Qaida cell is alleged to have provided money and other assistance to lead suicide pilot Mohamed Atta and other plotters.


http://news.yahoo.com/




/jarmo

well, i know its not a big thing, but we can see that al quaida kinda missed their action, u know, they were supposed to kill a lot more of people (bombs didnt explode )...

maybe a sign of their organisation failing and having internal trouble ..

we will see .... ???

The right wing party (PP) has lost the elections. That'll teach them that people are not stupid and that they can't just lie and manipulate information and get away with it

I don't know if anyone else heard this, but it was on NBC nightly news.

These attacks in Madrid were done on 3/11

The attacks in NY were done on 9/11


the time line between these 2 attacks was nine hundred eleven days.

The significance of the numbers nine and eleven is frightening.

Madrid Suspect Linked to 9/11 Suspect

By ANDREW SELSKY, Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain - Months before bombs tore through commuter trains in Spain, authorities had suspicions about Jamal Zougam ? a Moroccan being questioned in the worst terrorist attack in Europe since World War II.


Investigators suspected that Zougam had ties to an al-Qaida cell leader and found a video of mujaheddin fighters during a search of his home, according to an indictment reviewed Sunday.


The 700-page indictment names Zougam ? one of three Moroccans arrested Saturday in connection with the train bombings ? as a follower of Imad Yarkas, who was jailed by Spanish Judge Baltasar Garzon for allegedly helping plan the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States.


Zougam's alleged al-Qaida links strengthen suspicions that the terror group was involved in Thursday's Madrid bombings, which killed 200 and injured 1,500.


The train attacks helped drive the ruling conservatives from power in elections Sunday. The Socialists, led by Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, defeated the Popular Party of President Jose Maria Aznar, who supported the U.S.-led war in Iraq (news - web sites) despite widespread opposition.


Zougam was not indicted by Garzon, but the indictment, dated Sept. 17, 2003, clearly showed police were keeping an eye on him. His home was searched at least once, turning up a video of mujaheddin fighters in Dagestan, Russia, and telephone numbers of three members of the Madrid al-Qaida cell allegedly led by Yarkas.


In Morocco, a high-ranking official said Zougam, 30, had been under surveillance for months on suspicion of having ties to international terror groups, but faced no formal accusations in Morocco.


The other two arrested Moroccans, Mohamed Bekkali, 31, and Mohamed Chaoui, 34, have no police record in Morocco, said the Moroccan official.


Spanish authorities have not publicly spoken of Zougam's alleged link to al-Qaida since his arrest Saturday, even though Garzon's indictment has been publicly available for months.


Yarkas, who has used the alias Abu Dahdah and who was one of 35 people indicted by Garzon, remains in Spanish custody.


Intelligence agencies, meanwhile, worked Sunday to verify another possible link between the Madrid attack and al-Qaida.


Early Sunday, Spain's Interior Ministry said police had recovered a videotape near a Madrid mosque in which a purported al-Qaida operative claimed that the terror group bombed trains in Madrid to punish Spain's backing of the U.S.-led war against Iraq.


The tape was discovered in a trash bin after a man speaking with an Arabic accent called a Madrid TV station to say the tape was there, the ministry said.


In the video, a man, who wore Arab dress and spoke Arabic with a Moroccan accent, said the taped claim of responsibility came from "the military spokesman for al-Qaida in Europe, Abu Dujan al Afghani."


Intelligence agents were trying to verify his claims.


"Our reservations about the credibility remain," Spanish Interior Minister Angel Acebes said Sunday.


In France, which has fought Islamic terrorism for years, an intelligence official said the name al Afghani is likely a pseudonym. The name al Afghani could mean the person is of Afghan origin or has some association with the country.

   



Moroccan security experts who previously spent nearly a year cooperating with Spanish officials on last May's bombings in Casablanca arrived in Spain to help in the investigation.

In addition to the three Moroccans, Spanish police have arrested two Indians. Two Spaniards of Indian origin have also been detained for questioning.

The five were arrested after a cell phone and prepaid phone card were found in an explosives-filled gym bag on one of the bombed trains.

Friends of the Moroccans said the Madrid store where they worked sold cell phones but insisted in interviews with The Associated Press that the men would not have been involved in planning or carrying out the attacks.

"People shouldn't be put in jail for selling cell phones. They are hard workers," said Karim, who works in a phone shop near the now-shuttered store where the arrested Moroccans worked. Karim, an Algerian, did not want to give his last name.

Acebes said three of the five people arrested had previous records, and one was under investigation for suspected participation in murder, but did not elaborate. He earlier had said that one suspect might also have connections with Moroccan extremist groups.

The interior ministry identified the two Indian suspects as Vinay Kohly and Suresh Kumar.

___

Associated Press writers John Leicester in Madrid and Nicolas Marmie in Rabat, Morocco, contributed to this report.


http://news.yahoo.com



/jarmo

i disagree 100%.

you can't live in fear and let the terrorists dictate how governments handle world affairs.

there were plenty of terrorist bombings before the iraq invasion, and there's no way of knowing whether there would be more or less attacks if there was not a war against terrorists.

When are you guys going to understand that catching Bin Laden wont solve the problem whatsoever? If he dies, or is caught up, someone will replace him. The hate those people have is not something that can be "arrested", it just goes on. That is so sad, and I?m afraid it will never end  :no:

I agree with you that the 'hate' will never go away.  But catching Bin Laden will demoralize the Al Qaeda network - they wont have a leader anymore.

But unfortunately you're right - it will never end because people use religion as a weapon.  How sad that we kill in the name of God.

MSNBC is reporting now that Spain has "backed down" from terrorism. That they have buckled under the attack. That Americans don't take it sitting down like Spain is. Fuckin' unreal. Some nerve Joe Scarborough has (he's making a big deal out of the latest election). When people say shit like this, it's no wonder people hate our ass.

That's a two way street, as there is no way of knowing that invading Iraq prevented future terrorism either.

the thing is that you really CAN'T deal with terrorism at the present time.
all you do is for the future (changin mentality, caring less about the rest of the world ...)
theonly thing we can do, is be aware, look around, and check people at airports and all.

i thought about another solution. kinda strong and facist b, but yeah well.

what about making religion Illegal.
if you make religion illegal in your country, the religious terrorists won't be able to plan actions and recruit their people in the country you know.
it will slow things down.

u just ask that at the border :
" do you believe in god ? "
" yes "
"ok, bye bye sir"

 ;D

but one day, the "developped" countries will get so tired of taking care these mid-east countries issues  (like israel, palestine and all ) ... that they 'll just leave them alone to thei problems..... maybe that'll stop terrorism.

cause all the reasons we have from the al quaida are related to a problem like that : iraq, israel, afganistan ....
they were just countries that were "helped" by the USA of some other country ....
so... i guess we have to leave them alone .....

Fairweather friends as always...just about calling the Spanish cowards..cant say im surprised...what you going to do now? make fun of the Spanish like you did the French? Ban Spanish goods maybe?

i don't disagree. but being passive and not puting up a fight against the terrorists is a dangerous precident. if the world continues to back down and live in fear, the terrorists can and will control the world.

that's not an exaggeration - they could control the entire fucking world.

based on what evidence? do you have sources?

there have been around 3500 deaths from terrorism in the US over a 10 year period starting in 1993

over the same period in the US over 300,000 people died in road related deaths

the chances of being a victim of a terrorist attack currently are the same as the chances of being struck by lightning

im not saying that that wont change though but currently it isnt much of a threat

Being passive? Aren't we are getting ahead of ourselves here people? Spain has just suffered their biggest attack of its history and just because we are not bombing a third world country it doesn't mean we are being passive about it.

Spain has had its major share of terrorism over the past 40 years. ETA, basque separatist group, has killed over 800 people in this country so we know how to deal with terror. It's has been a long road, but we've put many terrorsits in prision over ther past 20 years. France authorities have worked in conjuction with us to prevent terrorism ( there's no way to stop it) and we've realized the best way to prevent terrorism is investigation and cooperation.

There's always going to be terrorism as long as the world exsits. It really doesn't matter how many people you killed or how many countries you bomb to prevent it. Terrorism, unfortunately, won't ever die. There are multiple ways of dealing with it though. Some ( the americans) believe going into war may be a good way to erradicate terror, others ( Spain, most european countries) believe in investigation and other procedures. I'm not saying which system is better, it is just different. Besides, Spain doesn't have the military power America has so, we have to find other alternatives.

Spain has backed-down from terrorism? Never. That will never happen.

On a site note. George Bush called Zapatero ( the newly elected spanish president) after Zapatero's victory on sunday night. Both presidents agreed to work together in order to prevent and erradicate terrorism.

good points, i agree with you.

but right now the terrorists feel they controled the election. that's dangerous.

spain's government is not being passive, nor did i suggest it is or will be. but the people of spain handed the terrorists a major victory.

It's embarassing to see a "newsman" say "Americans aren't going to take it sitting down, like the Spanish". That's fucked up and disrespectful to those who died and their families.

Why ? Because they voted against someone who kept lying for two days ? ...  :nervous:
An election is give a chance to people to have their voice heard ! That's what the spanish did !  :P

Correct. But Sandman's post makes sense as well.

Spanish people feel the now former govertment is responsible for the 200 deaths occured march 11th. Why? Because Spain ( the Govertment, not people) has supported US in going into war since day one. Had not supported the US, we would've not lost 200 people. It makes sense, it's logical.

People undecided, or people who didn't have any intentions to vote, they did for the left wing party so we could start all over again. The difference was not that big, 44% - 41%. A left party supporter will never vote a right wing party and viceversa. In the States, a democratic will never vote republican and viceversa. The elections are won by the votes of undecided people or those who never or rarely vote. Take last US elections for example, there were decided by just a couple of thousand votes in Florida. A country with 250 Million people...A year later, after Sept 11th and Bush's response to the attacks, he would've probably kick any democratic candidate ass at that point because people in America wanted responses and manily, wanted to go into war.

Spain is no different than the States. Our citizens want some answers and action taken, but instead of following America's direction ( which may or may not be the right path to follow) spanish people decide to take their own path.

So, who's responsible for the attacks anyway? Well, I don't blame the Spanish former Goverment, I don't blame the US ( there are some people who blame the US for going into war..), I don't blame this fucked up world....I blame fucking Al Qaida for these attacks. It amazes me how forgetful people may seem to be. Who is responsible for the 200 deads in Madrid? and almost 3,000 in the US? Fucking Al Qaida. Not the US govt, not the spanish govt, not the Irak war....I may not agree with the way the US have handled terrorism after Sept 11th, but I'm not going to blame America for dragging our ass out of the  cave to go into war with them. Our govt made a choice, and that was to stick by the US side. We were not forced to anything. We had a choice.

So, what's gonna happen now? Spanish troops will leave Irak June 30th. That does not mean we are going to back down from fighting against terrorism. It means, our new leader, may have a different strategy to prevent it. It doesn't mean that we are not in good terms with America. It means we may have a different approach to prevent Spain and the rest of the world from terrorism.

The saddest things about terrorism and Al-Qaida is that they seem to be much more organized than the rest of the world. They seem to have a goal and the planned ahead to reach it. They joined forces if the have to and write out the best fucking way to hurt us, the civilize world. Us, on the other hand, we can't seem to agree on anything and they are taking advantage. They will always win as long as each nation goes into war or fights terror on their own.

We have to join forces people. We have to create a world wide organization to defeat terror. Currently, we have America and the UK leading the rest of the world into something not even half of the population agrees/believes.

Our goal seems to be the same, to stop terrorism. Well, let's not discredit any alternatives to do so. There has to be other alternatives to prevent terrorism. Why does it have to be so compliacted?

Let's sit down and talk. That is the first step....

Yeah I agree...prob what he doesn't know is that we have chosen another alternative. Sometimes americans ( and please don't take this the wrong way- I know you are american...) are too blind to other alternatives. The best choice, it's always the one you ( the american's) take.

I do appreciate though your honesty and objetivity. :yes:

good posts chinasky!

but you're wrong when it comes to americans believing we always make the right choice...

america is split 50-50 on most issues. and people are EXTREMELY passionate on both sides. about half of america strongly objects to the way our government has handled iraq and the war on terror.

back to my point about how powerful the terrorists can become if we allow them....

now there's specualtion that al qaida will try to influence the US presidential election in November. maybe with an attack,  justified by saying it's due to the iraq war.

like chinasky pointed out, the election will be close and the independants will have a major say in who gets elected. it will be interesting to see if people vote out of fear, and allow al qaida to influence their choice.

A word wide organisation to defeat terrorism ?

Sure, if you count all the world muslims capitalism has exploited, it could be just the reason for modern day crusades and we'd have nice bloody firy 3rd world war ..

actually, you might be right .... history is a cycle, and well, we come to a time, where people need violence again...
i think, we want that world war 3
we really want it, deep inside, we can't say it, off course, but in our heart, even the little 7 years kid wants that ;D

thats why all this shit is happening.
the world is going to be real fucked up in 20 or 30 years.
 :o

Or not...a world wide organization it was the first thing came to mind. Truth is, something needs to be done other that what is currently being done.  Would you rather bomb a third world country? Do you think that's a better idea? or how about just not do anything at all? How about just sit down on our big fat politician ass and bitch about other countries's actions?

Ok then, so we just let them bomb our trains and hijack our planes.

I don't think the idea of a world wide organisation (led by the UN) is actually that bad. We need to coordinate efforts.

Spain Arrests Five More Bombing Suspects

By MARIA JESUS PRADES, Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain - Police arrested five more people in the Madrid train bombings as the death toll rose Thursday to 202, making the blasts ? along with the 2002 Bali nightclub blasts ? the worst terrorist strike since the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States.


The arrests brought to 11 the total suspects in Spanish custody and came as the country marked a week since the bombings that shocked Europe, led to a stunning election defeat for the government and roiled Madrid's relations with the United States.


In Morocco, police also rounded up associates of Jamal Zougam, a key suspect in the train bombings with alleged al-Qaida ties.


The death of a 22-year-old Peruvian woman increased the toll in the attacks to 202 ? the same number killed by bombings in Bali, Indonesia, in October 2002. Nearly 3,000 people died in the Sept. 11 attacks carried out by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network.


The latest arrests added to suspicions Moroccan extremists linked to Islamic terrorism were behind the Madrid bombings. At least three of the five suspects arrested Wednesday and Thursday are Moroccan nationals, according to a Moroccan official.


Spanish authorities sought to extend the detention of five other suspects, including Zougam, who were arrested Saturday. Zougam and the others ? two Moroccans and two Indians ? were being questioned Thursday at a Madrid court by Judge Juan del Olmo.


Del Olmo's options are to jail them pending further investigation ? which would suggest there is strong evidence against them ? free them on bail or with other restrictions, or release them altogether.


The suspects can be held for two years without a formal indictment while more evidence is gathered. This period can be extended for two more years.


Public anger over the government's handling of the bombings contributed to its loss in Sunday's elections. Critics accused it of provoking the bombings and making Spain a target for al-Qaida by backing the U.S.-led war in Iraq.


Prime Minister-designate Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, elected in the aftermath of the devastating bombings, repeated pledges Thursday that he would withdraw his country's 1,300 troops from Iraq unless the United Nations takes charge.


If Zapatero carries out his intention, "he'll appear to be appeasing terrorists and I think that would be really unfortunate," Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said during an interview Thursday on the PBS television program "Jim Lehrer News Hour."


"The Spaniards are courageous people," he said, adding: "They haven't run in the face of the Basque terrorists. I hope they don't run in the face of these peoplem."


In Morocco, police were rounding up Zougam's associates for questioning, said a Moroccan official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.


Three of the new arrests occurred in or near Alcala de Henares, a town 18 miles east of Madrid where three of the four bombed trains originated, according to court officials in Madrid. It's also where police found a van with detonators and a cassette tape with verses from the Quran hours after the attacks.


Another new suspect with Spanish citizenship was arrested in Oviedo, in northern Spain, court officials said.


Police believe that suspect may have had a direct role in the bombings and in the May 2003 suicide attacks that killed 33 people and 12 bombers in Casablanca, Morocco, said radio station Cadena Ser.


There were few details about the fifth suspect, although the news agency Efe said he was of North African origin.

   
Interior Minister Angel Acebes confirmed the "investigation is advancing" but wouldn't comment on the latest arrests. "This is a time for caution," he said, announcing the government would release intelligence reports about the attacks.

The 11th person detained in the investigation is an Algerian suspected of having had warning of the attack.

But Zougam, a 30-year-old Moroccan phone salesman in Madrid, remains the key suspect.

Spanish authorities were aware of his alleged links to al-Qaida since at least 2001, when they searched his Madrid apartment and found videos, including one of a bin Laden interview, and phone numbers of suspected al-Qaida members.

Moroccan officials said evidence shows Zougam also had links to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi ? a key operative with strong ties to Ansar al-Islam, an Islamic extremist guerrilla group blamed for terrorist strikes in Iraq, Jordan, Turkey and Morocco.

The officials believe the Madrid attackers also have links to those blamed for the Casablanca bombings.

In an effort to untangle the web of terrorist ties, a judge questioned Imad Yarkas, the alleged leader of al-Qaida's cell in Spain, who is jailed on suspicion of helping plan the Sept. 11 attacks.

His attorney said Yarkas knew Zougam only superficially. "He was not his friend," said the lawyer, Jacobo Teijelo. "He had no important relationship."

But a probe of al-Qaida by Spanish Judge Baltasar Garzon shows Zougam and Yarkas knew each other since at least 2001 and that Zougam telephoned Yarkas in a call monitored on Sept. 5, 2001.

Zougam is also suspected of links to Said Chedadi, another alleged al-Qaida operative arrested with Yarkas in 2001. Chedadi's phone number was found in the search of Zougam's home.

Chedadi remains in jail. On Wednesday night, police began searching his Madrid shop and house.

The government's decision to release intelligence reports on the bombings was aimed at countering allegations it lied by initially saying Basque separatists were responsible.

"We have suffered a campaign of defamation, insinuations and even lies, the sole aim of which was to discredit the government and make it look like a liar and a manipulator," said government spokesman Eduardo Zaplana.

Public anger over the government's handling of the bombings contributed to its loss in Sunday's elections. Critics accused it of provoking the bombings and making Spain a target for al-Qaida by backing the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

A week after the bombings, many in Madrid were still in shock. At Atocha station, where two of the four trains were bombed, passengers paused and stood in silence Thursday at makeshift altars of flowers and candles.

"What happened in Iraq's war zone happened in Madrid," said Ulpiano Calderon, who helped recover bodies and survivors. "The sounds that people made ? the breathing, the cries. ... I don't remember what I did, but I remember the sounds."

___

AP writer Nicolas Marmie contributed to this report from Rabat, Morocco.

---

Spain Releases Intelligence Reports

By MAR ROMAN, Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain - The government has declassified intelligence documents it said would refute charges that it lied in the immediate aftermath of the Madrid bombings by insisting that Basque separatists were responsible.


The 24 pages of documents released were compiled from Thursday, the day of the attack, through Sunday, the day of the election, Spain's National Intelligence Center, spokesman Eduardo Zaplana said.


"They will clear up any doubt about the information government had on those days," Zaplana said.


The government has been accused of misleading the public by insisting the armed Basque separatist group ETA was its prime suspect in the bombings that killed 201 people even as evidence started surfacing of a possible Islamic link.


Cadena Ser radio, which is close to Spain's incoming Socialist government, provided more evidence that it said suggested the government suspected an Islamic link even though publicly it pointed the finger at ETA.


The station said Thursday that prison wardens switched Driss Chebli, a jailed al-Qaida suspect allegedly linked to reputed Spanish cell leader Imad Yarkas, into solitary confinement on March 11 after the Madrid attacks, even as Interior Minister Angel Acebes insisted ETA was the main focus of the investigation.


Cadena Ser said it had obtained a document from Soto del Real prison, where Chebli is being held, detailing the order placing him in solitary confinement.


The ruling party lost Sunday's general election amid allegations that it had provoked the bombings and made Spain a target for al-Qaida by backing the U.S.-led Iraq war.


"We can lose the elections but under no circumstances will we tolerate being called liars," Zaplana said Thursday at a news conference after a cabinet meeting.


Titled "11-M: The whole truth, in real time," the documents were broken into six sections, including a listing of events starting with the explosions themselves and a police report on a van found to contain detonators.


Two other sections are unsigned statements. One states that ETA was responsible and that there was no evidence of Islamic involvement. It was dated March 11, but carried no time of day.


A second statement, dated March 12 and lacking a time of day, deals with an alleged al-Qaida statement claiming responsibility for the attack. It concludes that the author of the statement is linked to the Islamic extremists but lacks sufficient authority to speak on their behalf.


A government spokesman later confirmed that only the two unsigned statements are actually from the intelligence services. None of the 24 pages carried the National Intelligence Center letterhead.


The 10 blasts on four commuter trains began March 11 at 7:39 a.m.


Acebes said Thursday the government received at 3:51 p.m. a CNI report to the effect that it was "almost certain" that ETA was behind the attacks.


ETA issued two statements last week denying responsibility for the attacks.


Spain is serving a two-year term on U.N. Security Council. Just hours after the blasts, its 15 members unanimously adopted a resolution condemning the bombings "perpetrated by the terrorist group ETA" following lobbying by Foreign Minister Ana Palacio and other diplomats.


The pages released to journalists Thursday included a copy of Palacio's telegram sent to ambassadors and consuls worldwide on the evening of March 11 in which she insisted ETA was responsible and complained that a political party in Spain was trying to cast doubt about this.

http://news.yahoo.com/



/jarmo

Judge in Spain Charges Four More Suspect

By DANIEL WOOLLS, Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain - A judge filed charges early Tuesday against four more suspects in the Madrid train bombings and ordered them held pending further investigation.


The judge charged the Moroccans and a Spaniard with terrorism and mass killings for their alleged participation in the bombings, which killed 202 people and helped drive the ruling right-of-center government from power.


A fifth suspect, a Moroccan arrested with the others Thursday, was released without charges.


The charges came after six hours of questioning at the National Court, and bring to nine the number of people charged in the March 11 railway bombings. Six are Moroccan.


Suspicion over the 10 bombs targeting Madrid commuter trains has focused on an alleged Morocco-based terrorist cell believed to have links to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network and on al-Qaida itself.


All three Moroccans questioned into the early hours of Tuesday denied involvement in the Madrid attacks. One left the courtroom in tears. Another said that when he learned of the attacks the morning of March 11, he was at home watching cartoons with his children, court officials said.


The charges stop short of a formal indictment, but suggest the court has strong evidence against the suspects. They can remain in jail two years while investigators gather more evidence.


A total of 13 people are now in custody over the bombings, which left 202 people dead and more than 1,800 wounded. The latest four arrests came Monday in Madrid. Those four, believed to be of North African origin, have yet to go before a judge.


Spaniard Jose Emilio Suarez, accused of providing explosives for the attacks, was charged with 190 counts of murder, 1,430 counts of attempted murder, robbery and collaborating or belonging to a terrorist organization. Court officials said the latter charge will be specified further as the probe continues. The figure of 190 cited by the judge is the number of bodies officially identified so far.


Moroccan Abderrahim Zbakh, who cried as he left the courtroom, was charged with all those same offenses except robbery, officials said.


Mohamed El Hadi Chedadi and Abdelouahid Berrak, also Moroccans, were charged with collaborating with or belonging to a terrorist organization.


Berrak said he knows lead suspect Jamal Zougam because they own a barber shop together. Berrak also said he was an acquaintance of Imad Yarkas, the accused leader of an alleged Spanish al-Qaida cell who was arrested in Madrid in Nov. 2001.


The freed suspect was named as Farid Oulad Ali. Judge Juan del Olmo said there was insufficient evidence against him.


The scale of the attacks was reflected in the government's decision to hold a state funeral Wednesday for those slain.


It is the first time since democracy was restored after Gen. Francisco Franco's death in 1975 that a state funeral has been held for anyone other than a member of the royal family, government officials said.

http://news.yahoo.com


/jarmo

Judge Questions 5 Madrid Bombing Suspects


By MARIA JESUS PRADES, Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain - A Spanish judge interrogated five suspects in the deadly Madrid train bombings Monday as the incoming Socialist government, facing international pressure over plans to withdraw troops from Iraq, doubled its deployment to Afghanistan.



The five suspects ? three Moroccans and two Syrians ? are among 18 people detained in the March 11 bombings that killed 190 people and wounded more than 1,800.


Also Monday, the Spanish news agencies Efe and Europa Press reported that another bombing victim ? a 49-year-old woman ? died in a Madrid hospital, raising the death toll to 191. Hospital officials would not confirm those reports when contacted by The Associated Press.


The five suspects were questioned in National Court starting at noon EST and were expected to remain there for several hours.


Twelve of the 18 suspects have been charged in connection with Spain's worst terror attack. Nine of those 12 are Moroccans.


A Morocco-based terrorist cell with possible links to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network and al-Qaida itself are the main focus of suspicion in the bombings.


Investigators have analyzed a videotape in which a man claiming to speak on behalf of al-Qaida said the group carried out the Madrid attack in reprisal for Spain's backing of the U.S.-led war in Iraq.


Three days after the bombings, Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's conservative government was surprisingly defeated in general elections by the anti-war Socialists.


Prime Minister-elect Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero pledged to remove Spain's 1,300 soldiers from Iraq unless the United Nations takes charge of the occupation. Zapatero says both the war and occupation are illegal because they lack a U.N. mandate.


Zapatero's campaign manager, Jose Blanco, told Spanish National Radio on Monday that plans to withdraw troops from Iraq by June 30 remain in place unless the occupation gets a U.N. mandate.


Facing criticism from the United States and other countries, an aide to Spain's incoming defense minister, Jose Bono, said Monday the nation will double its military contingent in Afghanistan to 250 soldiers this summer.


That decision was made in consultation with outgoing Defense Minister Federico Trillo, said Bono spokesman Jose Luis Fernandez.


Zapatero's party supports the Afghanistan occupation because it is sanctioned by the United Nations, and NATO is commanding the forces overseeing the country's reconstruction after the ouster of the Taliban.


Chris Henderson, spokesman for the 6,500 NATO-led troops in Afghanistan, welcomed the news. NATO is expanding its presence in Afghanistan beyond the capital Kabul, but member countries have been slow to commit more troops.


"It's going to be critical we get additional resources, additional troops," Henderson said.


The five bombing suspects questioned Monday were Moroccans Fouad Almorabit and brothers Said Ahmidam and Hamed Ahmidam, and Syrians Mohammed Almallah Dabas and Baset Ghayoun.


The Spanish radio station Cadena Ser and the newspaper ABC have reported that Moroccan authorities believe a 36-year-old Moroccan named Abdelkrim Mejjati may have been the on-the-ground organizer of the Madrid attacks. Both outlets quoted Moroccan intelligence sources as saying Mejjati was in Madrid three days before the bombings.

   



Moroccan authorities told the AP that Mejjati was convicted in absentia after deadly bombings in Casablanca last year and is no longer believed to be in Morocco. Those bombings killed 33 people and 12 suicide bombers.

Moroccan authorities said it was unclear what role Mejjati played in the Madrid bombings.

"Mejjati is a big fish but his precise role is still uncertain," a senior official told the AP.

Also Monday, the newspaper El Pais reported that police searching a rural house where terrorists allegedly assembled the train bombs have found the fingerprints of at least 10 people, including Moroccan prime suspect Jamal Zougam.

Radio station Onda Cero said over the weekend that police also found the fingerprints of Abderrahim Zbakh, another Moroccan leading suspect.

Investigators would not confirm the reports, which also said detonators and traces of dynamite were found in the house near Morata de Tajuna, 20 miles southeast of Madrid. The attackers planted explosives-laden backpacks in four rush-hour commuter trains and apparently triggered them by cell phone.

A cell phone attached to an unexploded bomb was traced to a mobile phone store owned by Zougam.

Both Zbakh and Zougam have been charged with mass murder. Court documents have linked Zougam to members of a Spanish al-Qaida cell.

French private investigator Jean-Charles Brisard said last week that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian linked to al-Qaida and suspected of heading a terrorist network in Iraq, is now believed to have masterminded the Madrid bombings.

Brisard is an internationally known counterterrorism expert who has testified before the U.S. Congress and represents some family members of victims of the Sept.11 terror attacks on the United States.



/jarmo

Ringleader of Madrid Attacks Dies in Raid

MADRID, Spain - The alleged ringleader of last month's train bombings in Madrid was among four suspects who blew themselves up as police raided their apartment, Spain's interior ministers said Sunday.

The blast Saturday night killed a special operations police officer and wounded 15 other policemen. Interior Minister Angel Acebes said one of the dead bombers was found with an explosives belt around his body, and two or three suspects may have escaped before the explosion.

Sarhane Ben Abdelmajid Fakhet, a Tunisian accused of spearheading the March 11 attacks, was among the dead, Acebes said. An international warrant had been issued for the arrest of Fakhet and five others last week.

"The core of the group that carried out the attacks is either arrested or dead in yesterday's collective suicide, including the head of the operative commando (unit)," Acebes told a news conference.

Another man on that list, Abdennabi Kounjaa, a Moroccan, was identified as among the four who died Saturday night. A third man ? Asri Rifaat Anouar, was not on the list. The fourth suspect has not been identified, Acebes said.

Police also found 200 detonators of the kind used in the March 11 attacks and in a bomb that was discovered Friday before it could explode along a high speed rail line, Acebes said.

Police also found 22 pounds of dynamite in the apartment where the four terrorists blew themselves up as police closed in, Acebes said.

"They were going to keep on attacking because some of the explosives were prepared, packed and connected to detonators," Acebes said.

The group set off the deadly explosion as police prepared to storm their apartment in Leganes south of Madrid. Police had approached the building about 7 p.m. to make arrests as part of an escalating manhunt for those responsible for the March 11 bombings.

The suspects spotted the police from a window and shot at them, shouting in Arabic, the Interior Ministry said. Over the next two hours, police evacuated as many people as they could from the building and surrounding area and prepared for an assault on the apartment.

No police officers were hurt by the gunfire.

As the terrorists shot at police from the apartment, "they shouted 'God is great' and Islamic verses," the newspaper El Mundo quoted a resident of the building as saying. It identified him only as Alberto M., who lived two floors up.

El Pais said special forces preparing the assault managed to communicate with the terrorists and gave them a deadline to surrender. But the terrorists shouted back "God is great, we are going to go out killing," the newspaper said, quoting police.

The terrorists set off their bomb in a second-story apartment after police blasted open the ground-floor entrance, the Interior Ministry said.

The special forces officer who died in the explosion was identified Sunday as Javier Torrontera, 41. He was married and had two children.

The investigation into the Madrid attacks has focused on the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group, which has links to al-Qaida and is related to a group suspected in last year's Casablanca bombings, which killed 45 people including 12 suicide bombers. Acebes said the probe will now focus on what connections the bombers may have had abroad or with other terrorist groups.

Spain has been a major U.S. ally in Iraq and has been warned previously by al-Qaida that it would be the target of terrorism for its support.

Fifteen suspects are already in custody. Six have been charged with mass murder and nine with collaborating with or belonging to a terrorist organization. Eleven of the 15 charged are Moroccan.


http://news.yahoo.com



/jarmo

More Suspects Arrested in Madrid Bombings

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&ncid=732&e=5&u=/ap/20040412/ap_on_re_eu/spain_bombings (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&ncid=732&e=5&u=/ap/20040412/ap_on_re_eu/spain_bombings)

Seventeen people, 13 of them Moroccan, have been charged in connection with the bombings. Authorities believe that the core members of the cell are either behind bars or were killed when seven terrorist suspects blew themselves up April 3 as police prepared to storm their apartment in southern Madrid. However, at least six more suspects are still being sought.

--

Hopefully they'll get everyone involved in this.


/jarmo

yea i think everyone here probably agrees on that 100%

True. ;)

I mean, get them soon instead of ten years from now.



/jarmo

The Divine Wind...

Fighting against kamikaze people - what kinds of strategies & tactics can we employ to combat them?  

Remember that 'fierce resistance' that was encountered in Pakistan?  And then they found this underground tunnel system... not too shabby at all!  The enemy just slithered away.

- excerpt from NYTimes

Spanish Leader Pulling Troops From Iraq
By MARLISE SIMONS

MADRID, April 18 ? Spain's new Socialist prime minister, Jos? Luis Rodr?guez Zapatero, announced today that he was ordering Spanish troops to leave Iraq "as soon as possible."

Mr. Zapatero, speaking just 24 hours after he was sworn in, said he had ordered Defense Minister Jos? Bono to "do what is necessary for the Spanish troops stationed in Iraq to return home" in the shortest possible time. Mr. Zapatero said he had made his decision because it was unlikely that the United Nations would be playing a leading role in Iraq any time soon, which had been his condition for Spain's 1,300 troops to remain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agree. Authorities are doing a hell of a job though. I'm in Madrid now for business and I have never seen so many cops in my life. In the Subway, train staitions, airport, shopping centers, state buildings...you get the picture. They are everywhere. This morning, a subway station was emptied out because somebody had forgotten a school bag inside. The city has changed. I guess just like NYC a couple of years ago. There are black ribbons everywhere.

Madrilians are hurt. Obviously. I have come accross many people over the past two days ( cab drivers, bar attendants, hotel staff..) they don't even want to mention the attacks anymore. It has become somehow tabu. People just want to carry on with their lives. Everytime I mention the issue, the person I'm addressing to, takes a deep breath, nods, and says, unbelieable. It's going to take a while.

True. I have actually discussed this same issue with my american friends just a couple of days ago. Apperantly, pretty much every news channel in the States disagrees with this policy. By bringing our troops back home, we are not giving up on terror. This is just another way to fight it. But I already cover this same issue in this very same thread....

 :peace:

Spain Links American to Madrid Bombings

By DANIEL WOOLLS, Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain - The fingerprints of an American lawyer arrested in the Madrid terror bombing probe were found on a plastic shopping bag containing detonators like those used in the train attacks, the Spanish government said Friday.


The bag was found inside a stolen white van left near a train station that three of the four bombed trains departed from, an Interior Ministry official said.


Brandon Mayfield, a 37-year-old former Army officer who converted to Islam, was taken into custody Thursday by FBI agents, who also searched his home in the Portland, Ore., suburb of Aloha.


It was the first known arrest of a U.S. citizen in connection with the March 11 commuter train attack in Madrid that killed 191 people and injured 2,000 others.


The Spanish official declined to give more details and the National Court, where a judge is leading an investigation into the attacks, said it had no information on Mayfield.


The seven detonators found inside the bag were of the same kind used in the train bombings, the government says. Authorities also found an Arabic-language cassette tape with verses of the Quran inside the van, which was discovered in Alcala de Henares, about 20 miles northeast of Madrid, hours after the attacks.


The announcement of the van's discovery was the government's first public admission of a possible Islamic link in Spain's worst terrorist attack, which it initially blamed on Basque separatists.


Other fingerprints found inside the van included those of Moroccan Jamal Zougam, a prime suspect in the attacks who is under arrest and charged with mass murder and terrorism.


Police say cell phones used to activate the detonators in the backpack bombs used in the train attacks were traced to the cell phone store Zougam ran in Madrid.


Witnesses in Alcala de Henares reported seeing men wearing ski masks and carrying backpacks get out of the van on the morning of the attacks, headed for the train station.


The bombings have been blamed on an alleged Moroccan-based Islamic extremist cell with possible links to al-Qaida. Eighteen people have been charged so far, six with mass murder and the others with collaboration or with belonging to a terrorist organization.


Mayfield was arrested Thursday on a material witness warrant and has not been charged with any crime, according to a senior law enforcement official in Washington, D.C., speaking on condition of anonymity. A material witness warrant allows the government to hold people suspected of having direct knowledge about a crime or to allow time for further investigation.


As a former Army officer, Mayfield's fingerprints would be on file with the government. A law enforcement official said the fingerprints were not on file because of any crime or as part of the government's terrorism databases.


Beth Anne Steele, a spokeswoman for the FBI in Portland, said two search warrants had been served Thursday in Washington County, which includes Aloha. She would not release further details.


Mayfield passed the Oregon bar in 2000 and kept a low profile in the Portland legal community until 2002, when he volunteered to represent Muslim terrorism suspect Jeffrey Battle in a child custody case.


Battle was among six Portland-area residents who were sentenced last year on charges of conspiring to wage war against the United States by helping al-Qaida and the former Taliban rulers of Afghanistan.


Mayfield was not involved with Battle's defense in that case. Law enforcement officials in Washington did not know of any contacts between Mayfield and the other Portland terrorism defendants.

   



Mayfield converted to Islam in the late 1980s and regularly attended Friday prayers at a Beaverton mosque, said mosque administrator Shahriar Ahmed.

Friends and family said they were shocked by the arrest.

Outside their home near Portland late Thursday, Mona Mayfield described her husband as "a good man, a good father, a good husband." The couple have two sons, ages 10 and 15, and a 12-year-old daughter.

Portland attorney Tom Nelson, who described himself as a mentor, said he received a call Thursday from Mayfield asking for help.

"His wife was in tears because of the way the search was conducted. The FBI apparently hurt things in the house, left things in disarray," Nelson told reporters outside Mayfield's home. "He is a regular, run-of-the-mill guy."

Nelson said Mayfield had never traveled to Spain.

"Obviously, the government holds all the cards in these kinds of situations," Nelson told ABC's "Good Morning America" Friday. "It can release any kind of information it thinks it wants to release and the other side is prohibited to speaking on the merits, so I can't speak to the merits."

"He's in no position to, say, do forensic tests of his own" on the alleged fingerprints, Nelson added. He said he was speaking as a friend and was not acting as Mayfield's legal counsel.

___

Associated Press writers Andrew Kramer in Portland and Curt Anderson in Washington, D.C., contributed to this report.



/jarmo

I hadn't heard about this!!

Thanx Jarmo for continuosly updating this thread. : ok:

So... the fingerprints belong to this guy Mayfield?  I'm confused because the article goes on to say:


So if he did do it, the bag containing the bombs was sent to Spain from the US?  :confused:


He has been arrested, but not charged with any crime...  How long will he be detained for?

There have been other stories like this (about Muslim converts engaging in alleged suspicious activity).  Jose Padilla comes to mind...

Not much has been revealed yet. There's not too much to add really yet...


Yes, the fingerprints belong to Mr. Mayfield apperantly. Those were found on the bag containing some detonators of the same kind used in the train attacks.


Nelson is his lawyer...maybe flew in with a fake passport??


No, his fingertips were found on that bag. There is no more evidence other than that. Authorities are not revealing any more details.

Spain Marks Anniversary of Train Bombings

 By MAR ROMAN

MADRID, Spain - Spaniards lit candles, laid down flowers and observed a long, mournful silence Friday to mark the first anniversary of the country's worst-ever terror attack, when 10 al-Qaida bombs ripped through crowded commuter trains, killing 191 and wounding more than 1,500.


King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia led government leaders and other dignitaries during the main memorial ? a silent, five-minute noon vigil inaugurating a grove of 192 olive and cypress trees, one for each person killed last March 11 and a policeman killed when Islamic militant suspects seeking to avoid arrest blew themselves up.


The grove in Madrid's main park has been christened the "Forest of the Absent."


After the vigil, a young cellist dressed in black played "Song of the Birds" by Pablo Casals, a piece the late Spanish cellist had written in dedication to peace.


As the dignitaries stood in grim silence, normally bustling Spanish society also paused in five minutes of quiet remembrance. Trains made unscheduled stops at stations. Construction workers on scaffolding put down their tools. Office workers poured into the streets.


"I feel so sad. It was so unfair," said Bakea Goitia, a 48-year-old civil servant. She recalled the day of the bombing as "catastrophic. Everything seemed to go out of control."


Goitia was part of a crowd of thousands stretching as far as the eye could see along Paseo de la Castellana, Madrid's main north-south artery, grieving over an attack that cut across nationality, killing immigrants from Ecuador to Ukraine, from France to the Philippines.


At Atocha, a crowd of at least 1,000 people broke into applause after observing the five minutes of silence. Clapping after a funeral is a common Spanish way of paying one's respects.


Attached to a railing overlooking the platform that was bombed was a single red rose with a sign that said, "for you, my love, who are no longer with me."


Earlier, at the rail stations targeted in the attack, people huddled together and shed tears as memories of the blasts returned. Some left notes that tried to put pain into words.


"Who will give me back my will to live, which died here a year ago?" read a letter posted on a wall at El Pozo station ? the deadliest of four scenes of carnage. It was signed only Susana, a woman who said she was injured when bombs gutted a double-decker train.


Bells at hundreds of churches around Madrid tolled for five minutes beginning at 7:37 a.m., when the first of 10 dynamite-loaded backpacks detonated on four rush-hour trains. Al-Qaida-linked militants claimed responsibility.


"It really could have happened to any one of us. That is the truth," said Victoria Martinez Montes, a 70-year-old retiree, standing outside the Church of Saint Teresa on a clear, chilly morning in Spain's capital. "More than remember, what we should do is try to help those who survived because those who are gone are now with God."


At El Pozo, a man tossed red and white carnations and roses onto the railroad tracks.


Another, an emergency medical worker who attended to the dying the day of the attack, came wearing his uniform, a yellow jumpsuit, to pay his respects.


"I will never forget the image of what happened here," said the 42-year-old worker, who identified himself only as Paco. "I still remember the smell of gunpowder. Finding pieces of bodies on the platform. The image of a boy's head on a bench."


As he spoke, a text message beeped on his mobile phone. It was from a rescue-worker colleague and said: "A year ago they took something away from us."

   



Juana Leal, a middle-aged housewife who lost her husband in the El Pozo blast, said she got up early Friday to ride a train at the same time he did a year ago. "He never came back. I am bringing him flowers," she said. Leal placed a bouquet of carnations and daisies at an isolated spot on the platform. Tucked into it was a small photo of her husband.

Another person paying tribute was Maria Jesus Moreno, who was walking toward El Pozo when the bomb went off. She said she remembers seeing her neighbors running to catch the train that would later blow up around them. "I never saw them again," Moreno said, crying as she recalled the image.

On a train following the same route as the four that were bombed last year, passengers rode in silence. A free newspaper handed out to commuters featured a black front page with a picture of a candle.

"It is hard to take the train today. You think about that day. It all comes back," said one commuter, Pilar Almena, a 48-year-old chef.

Those attending the inauguration of the grove of trees included King Mohamed VI of Morocco, home to most of the 22 suspects in jail in connection with the attack.

Militants claimed responsibility for the attacks in videotapes, saying they were retaliating on al-Qaida's behalf for Spanish troops' presence in Iraq.

Socialists who opposed the war ousted the ruling conservatives in elections held three days later, with many voters accusing then Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar of having made Spain a target for al-Qaida by backing the U.S.-led invasion. Aznar was also accused of lying to save the election by blaming the armed Basque separatist group ETA for the attacks, even after evidence of an Islamic link emerged.

The 22 people jailed over the bombings face preliminary charges of terrorism or mass murder. Fifty-two detainees have been released but are still considered suspects. A trial is not expected until late this year at the earliest.

http://news.yahoo.com




/jarmo

I can't believe it's been a year already.

Obvioulsy every TV, Radio Station, Newspaper in Spain are reporting the one year anniversary. Boy, things have changed in this country since....

Two years today...



Madrid remembers terror victims?
 
Spain is marking the second anniversary of the Madrid train bombings, in which 191 people were killed.

The prime minister will attend a wreath-laying ceremony in the Forest of Remembrance at noon, which will be followed by a five-minute silence.
A delegation from Morocco - the country of origin of many of the suspects - has travelled to the city to join events.
Islamic militants with links to al-Qaeda said they carried out the attacks on the four commuter trains. A number of key suspects killed themselves in a stand-off with police weeks after the bombings, but the investigation to find others involved has continued. Twenty-five people are being held in jail pending trial.

Moroccan 'solidarity'

The Moroccan delegation observed a few minutes of silence at Atocha train station, which was targeted in the massacre.? The Moroccan Caravan for Peace and Solidarity set out in buses on 5 March, stopping in several Spanish cities. "We want to express our solidarity and support for the Spanish people and show that the Moroccan people are one of peace and against terrorism," member Mohamed Boujida said.

The 10 co-ordinated blasts on the morning of 11 March 2004 were the country's worst terrorist attack.

"March 11 is a date I will never forget," a passenger at Atocha told the Associated Press news agency. "More than anything I remember the silence" that engulfed the city after the massacre, Javier Hervas said.

The explosions came three days before a general election, in which the Socialists ousted the right-wing Popular Party (PP) of then Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar. The government initially blamed armed Basque separatists Eta for the attacks, an error which is widely believed to have contributed to the Popular Party's unexpected defeat.

Correspondents say Spanish victims' associations will keep a low profile, as they did 12 months ago. In 2005 the Association of Madrid Bombing Victims said it would boycott all the events, protesting that the pain of victims and relatives had been used as a political football.




BBC News



 

2 years already, is it?  :nervous:

When are the trials starting?

I wonder how different the sentences will be in Madrid and in London.




/jarmo

This topic is political and should be locked.
I have just been made aware of your Dec. 2005 policy banning political discussions.
The rules need to be followed.
Anyone who knows anything about terrorism knows that it is an inherently political act with political goals.
Lock the thread.

There's nothing political abt remembering the 200 people who were killed in the attack. Get a grip.

The wolrd was never the same after 9/11 then came this and this is the point when mankind lost its humanity  :(

you're right.
but in a few posts THIS will turn into a political debate.

so let's lock this already.

Yeeeaahhh, maybe it should be locked.  I'll see if my powers are working...

This has nothing to do with George W Bush or American politics.

It's about remembering something that happened two years ago today.


The same guy who started a political thread about US presidents asks for this to be locked.  ::)

We know the motives behind the attacks and we're not gonna discuss them.




/jarmo

Jarmo, in all honesty, I think the US presidents thread wasn't really that bad. I see why you locked it, it did fall under your rule, but you could have seen what direction it took before locking it. It was more just an assessment of the presidents, and how their presidencies rate. I dont think it would have turned into the old Bush/war threads like before, because that wasnt really the topic at hand. Although I could see the potential for it to turn ugly, because it was already on the verge of having an argument/discussion over Reagan's impact on the cold war. Have you seen the Bush Ipod thread? That has some major potential to get ugly, if certain posters start posting in the thread.



On topic: My condolences to our European friends that suffered during that horrific attack, and my prayers go out to the victims families, and to friends of those that perished. We might all have our differences because we are from different parts of the world, but in tragic times, we stand together as one up against the face of evil.

The grip is firm. They were  killed for political reasons. Obviously you don't know: because Spain supported the US in the war in Iraq. Which is political. So shut the fuck up.

As a professional political scientist, you are wrong.
They pay me to do this shit, so I think I know? what? I am talking about.
 :peace:


BTW: Publication record? of 11 books, 60+ peer reviewed? articles in professional journals, 20+ book chapters, and 40+ conference papers on political topics. So don't tell me what you think you know.

When you have a university press book that wins an award from an academic organization for best book in a subject, then we will talk. Otherwise..... :hihi:

Oh, and BTW, how many times has the CIA asked you to consult  with  them for professional advice on world  affairs? For me, only 3 times in 2005, which is  less than what I  did for  them in 2004. 2006 is looking to be quite busy for me at Langely, so really, don't lecture to me about politics.

You know, a request  was made to apply the rules of this site equally and fairly to all: no political topics per the posting from December 2005 by Jarmo.  terrorism is political. It  was not my decision. It is just a fact.

My request was  met  with an irrelevant  attack by the chief moderator (aka God, tyrant, dictator) of this site. The implication is clear: he reserves  the right to apply the rules arbitrarily and capriously without  any regard to fairness  or integrity. You be the judge.

Obviously, u r a stupid insensitive prick since u didn't understand what I said. Those people may have been killed by a political event, but marking the anniversary of a bombing is not to remind people why it took place, but to express solidarity and extend support to the families of the people that lost their lives.

If u have nothing good to post other than whining about ur threads getting locked, then don't.

 :o

I will refrain from name calling since  it only demeans the sender. But let me ask you this:
where is the tribute/remebrance of the Pakistani families  who died in the US bombing of a  defenseless  village  recently? And  where  is the rembrance for the hundreds of thousands of  innocent Iraqi  families  that  have  suffered as a consequence of the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq by the US? Or do  they not count because their  skin is not  white? And Jarmo has the gall to infer that this thread is not political.....

Why don't u start those threads? They're not going to get locked.
On the same note, why are u so adamant to get this thread locked?

Wrong again. Those topics are  political and will be locked. Just as this thread is and should be  locked, according to the rules. Rules are rules and should be  applied equally or not at all. That  is called the rule of law which is a basic  foundation of all democracies. If not, then it  is not a democracy, and frankly, the way this site is run, it is more like  a tyrantical dictatorship than a democracy, which I attribute to the extremely cold weather in Finland or wherever  Jarmo is from. :rofl:

Sure you do:




Look, nobody's gonna take your bait so stop trying.

I already explained to you why this is open now get over it.


You can take your university papers and brag about them all you want. Good for you, but it doesn't change the fact that you're acting like a brat in this thread.


Anybody who wishes to express their condolences to the ones who were affected by this act of terror can do so.





/jarmo

The point of bumping this thread was to remember those who died two years ago. Full stop. You are the one trying to make this thread a political one. Luckily nobody is taking any notice. If this thread turns into a political fight I would be the first one to ask for it to be locked. I too have my own political views on why this happened, but I'm not expressing them here now, firstly because we already talked enough about it, and secondly because I don't wanna start another pointless argument.

Finally I would ask you nicely to show some respect for those who died and their families and stay away from this thread.

see what's going on now jarmo .... told ya ;)

Sigh, "singers." (shakes his head). ::)

It's only bragging if you have not done it (as in, "I could? do this or that.") If you have done it, it is called? reporting the facts. There? is a difference.

Finally I would ask you nicely to show some respect for those who died and their families and stay away from this thread.

So I assume that  includes the families in Palestine, Afghanistan, and Iraq? Yes  or no? White people from Europe are  not the only ones dying. And God Bless the brave  US soldiers  whom GB sent off to war to die  so that he could look his daddy in the eye and say, "I done you right." I feel for the 2300 families in the US who have lost  a son, daughter, father, or mother. I wonder if George  thinks  about them at night, how they can continue  their  lives  for  a  cause which is morally corrupt.

actually you can still brag about something even if you have done it. ( as in. oh i've done this and oh i've done that )

p.s saying " They pay me to do this shit, so I think I know? what? I am talking about. " and " Oh, and BTW, how many times has the CIA asked you to consult  with  them for professional advice on world  affairs? For me, only 3 times in 2005, which is  less than what I  did for  them in 2004. 2006 is looking to be quite busy for me at Langely, so really, don't lecture to me about politics. " is kinda like bragging.

my thoughts and condolences to all who suffered because of this senseless act