Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Let me preface this by saying dont take anything in this post to be the gospel.  Its nothing more than a retelling of information I've provided previously along with new information that was shared with me by a friend (I'm not using the word 'source' anymore - the guy's a PD of a rock station in Florida - the guy is a friend of mine - and the guy is alot more 'connected' than I'd ever be.)

Feel free to flame / bash when I'm done with this - I'd expect nothing less from the sometimes vitrolic HTGTH crowd :)

Alright, months ago, when IRS was leaked - I made some calls / sent some emails at the moment I heard about it.  My primary goal was obviously to score a copy of the track, not necessarily to garner anything approaching information.  

What I found out at the time I posted a bit about - that IRS was leaked as the beginning of a 'twisting the thumbscrews' on Axl & the gang by 'certain entities' in Interscope / Universal to kind of 'prod along' a CD release.  I got a lot more info on this at the time - but the most interesting thing was that there was more coming.  I was told 'the money people are irked - and when the money people get pissed, heads roll'

Bascially, when IRS showed up on Trunk's show - Sanctuary scrambled - they are the ones who pushed to get the off-the-air tapes locked in safes and kept out of the hands of others.  SUPPOSEDLY, some sort of agreement was struck between Sanctuary & Interscope (and, presumably, GNR) when the leak occured (well, when knowledge of it appeared) and that agreement is what led to the rapid disappearance of IRS from the auditory radar.

Fast foward to shortly before november - we get the info about the DVDs - we get the info about GH - and we hear that GNR is none too happy about either of them.  We get to the point that ads are run (or at least submitted for print) and cover art is generated for this disc.  Then, it all disappears - like, without a trace.  I posted at the time about a supposed agreement between GNR & Interscope to 'stop' the wheels turning on GH and allow the band 'X' amount of time to release (or hand over for release) CD.  Sensing a pattern here?

The time frames set forth in this agreement were, according to my friend (talk all the smack about the guy you want - but he knows people I only *wish* I knew) 'announce a release date by end of March, release by end of May'.  So here comes late January - and all of a sudden, it seems like things are happening.  Pilferk & I both hear, from different sources, that 'actions are iminent' - the assumption I think we both made was "wow, looks like we're gonna get a release date or a single or something".  I was told, specifically, "look for the date on GH to be pushed back - or to disappear alltogether.. if it does, then REAL NEWS is iminent".  Hell, even Mysteron sort of confirmed the stuff Pilferk and I had posted in that one thread saying something along the lines of "expect official news in the next several weeks" (and yes, I know I'm paraphrasing here.. and I aplogize if I've misquoted Mysteron)

I figured ok, Mysteron's info is probably a bit more solid than my own - or Pilferk's - but it still jives, in general.. "info coming soon".  

Then, according to an email I received last night, "all hell has truly broken loose"  I can't tell you everything the guy said to me - hell, most of it doesnt relate to any of this - but here's the jist.. from, again, what's being heard from people 'in the know' (and it could still very well be wrong.. hence the problem with third-party information)

GH is coming out (a big 'duh' on that one)
GNR have yet to turn over a 'final mix' of CD to Interscope.
RIO IV's lack of official confirmation is a big problem - looks to be some sort of money issue.. I dont know the details on it.
If Axl attempts to sue to stop GH's release from occuring, then details of the 'gentlemen's agreement' made between the band and the label will be made public.  basically, it'll turn into a big old mud slinging fest.
It is the opinion of some higher-ups at Universal that GH is a more 'marketable' product than CD.  This is mostly the 'Rock = a 1/2 dead genre' type of folks.. but they're still money people.
Once GH 'streets', expect 2-3 more leaks of IRS caliber.  probably to file sharing networks as opposed to 3 AM on some radio show on a Holiday.  This point is big - its the 3rd time I've heard (from two different people now) in the last 8 months that there is a huge desire to 'punish' Axl for all of these delays.  IRS was step one in that punishment.  GH is step two.  leaks are step three.  step four is 'cut our losses and just drop this failed project'

For the record, I hope that none of the above is true.  I would love nothing more than for a CD release date to be announced tomorrow - and this time, for some actual new material as opposed to some ugly GH disc.

Feel free to bash, flame, respond, post, inquire, or just discuss - I'm sure that I have maybe 10% of the story on this.  Unfortunately, right now, all signs are pointing to 'sinking ship' by my perception - I'd love to be wrong.. and I pray that I am.  because if Interscope drops GNR -we are ALL fucked - as in, we dont hear these tracks anytime short of ever, pretty much.

Oh well - the saga that is GNR continues... sigh.

-darknemus

Well there's a kick in the bollocks  :crying:

Although without rooting through Mysteron's posts, I'm sure some of that doesn't quite agree?

I hope this isn't all correct. Thanks for sharing anyway dark.

@#$%Muther

Your posts are always interesting Dark :)

I'm giving them 8 weeks before I send off the petition. I'm expecting to hear something official in this time... But if not, hell half no fury like a group of scorned, pissed off GNR fans. :hihi:

Sorry dark, I meant it as a joke, I didn't think you would take the email seriously. :(


EDIT: I'm joking about the email so I am. But dark is still lying to you all. Run! RUN! Before he takes your brains for his weird Pidgeon world!!  :o

 :hihi: :hihi: - Sorry - too bad Bush took the 'Sadaam has WMD - HAHA U R a L0ZeR!!11 U GAY OMFGLOL!' email from you seriously, too.

Btw, anarchy, I love you.  Not in a lets violate the laws of California State and get married sort of way, but still :)

-darknemus

Are you referring to the 'all hell breaks loose' email in dark's original post?  

If so, what kind of a horrible joke is that??  :nervous:

I just hope the Money-guys at Interscope/Universal/blah  havent given up on CD - I wish they'd let the fans decide.. sigh..

I love you like a son dark.


Not a real son of course. Sort of an illegitimate bastard son that we allow to live in an outbuilding with the animals.

[rofl]

Unfortunately, this actually makes more sense than any rumor that we have been hearing lately.

If leaks are set in motion to punish Axl, there is a bright side to it.

If the buzz about the songs is very good, Axl may be veered towards a state of confidence in his new material, and may actually release the thing sooner than we think, depending on how bitter he is towards the people responsible.
He'll of course say the songs weren't completely done, and the public will wonder and anticipate even better music. It will buils a buzz, without a doubt.

On the other side of the fence, if the general opinion is that the songs suck, he can still get away with salvaging his credibility as an artist who can still write killer tunes, because, again, they weren't done, and if they were, they (the songs) would have obviously been better.

If these leaks as punishment were to happen, it could be a blessing in disguise...

Very interesting stuff, dark

Very funny guys... :rofl:  Thanks for the humor...but try to couch it in a more "on topic" way.   ;)

Weeeeellll... Mysteron said:

"Management are currently planning the details of release for CD. As of a couple of days ago, there was no release date for CD, it had not been decided. As it stands, they may finalise details next week (hypothetically speaking), and go public a few days after that. They could, however, finalise details in, say, three weeks, and go public a few days after that. The problem is is that I am not part of this planning process, so I do not know how close to finalising thing they are.......so, the fact is, I don't know when CD is going to be released, my opinion though is, something is due soon, but how soon, I don't know. If people ask me for my opinion. then I will give it"

I don't know what to believe. I can't wait to see what happens in the next couple of months.

@#$%muther

I hope Mysteron's 100% on track on this.  I'd love it, in fact.  

-darknemus

The most logical explanation for the Greatest Hits:

Record Exec: Hey, since CD is coming out soon, how about we put together a Greatest Hits package... You know, double the profit of the people who don't own any of the old records.

That's a great idea Jim!

Gee, this GH cd could also get some buys from the VR release, too! That's tripple the money guys!

AXL: I'm trying to start a new era damn it! And I don't want to want to promote the old guys! Beta, cancel my hair appointment! get my lawyer on the phone. He's on speed dial!

Correctamundo  :smoking:

@#$%Muther

When did Mysteron post that? I must have missed it.

We're on the same wavelength mID. 97.4FM Radio Wacko.

Mysteron said pretty much that.

Look at the 'we're owed an explanation from a certain board insider aka Mysteron' thread started by D.  It's on Pg 2 since this board fills up fast with threads  :hihi:

Thanks! All these rumor threads are clogging up the boards.  :hihi:

dark, how does your info jive with the info i got that i know to be true, that the album is done, though i can't say for sure if its been handed over...

Only direct connection I can draw is I've heard several times the disc is, for all intents and purposes, done.  It just hasn't been delivered to Interscope for release.  Whether that's due to the final track list not being decided, or possibly more 'vocal tweaks' or even an editing of the liner notes - I dont know.  I'll throw my pure speculation in there, though, and say that I just think there's some inate fear with Axl to actually 'turn over' the disc.  Because at that point, maybe something he's really not ready for begins - the true public test of GNR's viability, circa 2004.

-darknemus

TWISTING AXL'S ARM WON"T WORK.

It just won't.  From everything I've ever read about him , he's a fighter, not a compromiser.  He resents the whole business end of music.  If the record company is really leaning on him that hard, THEY"RE ONLY GONNA MAKE SHIT WORSE.  Axl is incredibly stubborn.    This is everythig to him.  his life, his vision, his purpose, his redemption, you name it.  EVERYTHING.  He's gonna do it his way or he's not gonna do it.  And he's stubborn enough to not release it just to PUNISH those who think they can control him.  

Yes it's taking forever.  Yes it's expensive.  But he's not a man who responds to threats.  Did it work for slash?

It would have come out eventually.  But if axl feels like the people who should be supporting him are betraying them, do you think he's going to give in to them?  Shit, if they want him to put it out, they should tell him he's not allowed to.

^^^ truer words have not been spoken. I agree emphatically with everything you posted. which is bad news because it looks like they are trying to bully him...

Well, if that's true, it's extremely unfortunate.

However, I have to say, I don't buy it.  Nothing against you dark, I appreciate your work and I know you're just trying to keep us informed.

The thing is, it doesn't go along with what Mysteron has told us, and it's basically been confirmed that Mysteron is legit (or, jarmo is in on his scam too).

can someone please sum up what Myst has said and how that conflicts with Dark's info?
sorry, i can't read every post..
thanks.

My understanding of what Mysteron has told us is that the album is done, and the management is just deciding on how and when to release it.

Points of confusion to me:  If GNR have the CD locked away and haven't given it to the label, then how did the label "leak" IRS awhile back? And how will they set in motion phase 3 of the punishment by leaking up to 3 additional tracks?

IRS never leaked, it was a fake. A few tracks leaked last year around this time but Geffen managed to stop it before it got REALLY out there. The GH cd wont come out, its jsut being used as pressure. And ill keep saying dont expect till at least Fall.

My understanding on the leak situation is that, although Axl hasn't 'signed off' on CD's release, the studio still has full access at any given time to any / all recordings.  (I'm not sure how that would apply to stuff recorded at Axl's home studio, though.)  My understanding of record contracts is that pretty much the label is always allowed access to the material in whatever state - it forms a sort of 'collateral' for the record company and protects their financial interests in the product.

So, even if Axl says "No, I dont want the disc released yet" (which, with 'Creative Control', he can do) - there is nothing directly impeding the label's access to the material for review or whatever.

That's how I understand the IRS leak happened - and it was one of the reasons there was such a quick rush to make it 'go away' - as the track itself was a final mix.. and pretty much ready for whatever album it would go on.

-darknemus

shit...
I HOPE it isnt true, but IF its true, then we have our "update"  :-\

God, WHY do we love this band so much ?

Umm, we've got independent confirmation from a variety of sources that IRS was played - Including Mysteron.. I believe he said "something was played that shouldn't have been" (again, I apologize for not quoting him exactly - but that is a summary of what he said).  And for GH not to be coming out, then someone needs to put the kabosh on the Press Release regarding it, wouldn't you think?

-darknemus

OK, thanks. That makes sense. So in other words, they leak the tracks to piss Axl off but deny that they did it for legal reasons as they are laughing in their high-rise corporate suites.

This is very bad.  Just when you think things can't get any lower....

With the complete silence, I'd welcome any type of action on the GN'R front! :)

I got no money, but when Chinese Democracy is finally released, a rich poster here should invite us all to LA to all meet, high five, and cheer the end of our 10 year journey!!
 :peace: :beer: :beer: :peace:

This is all so Rock n Roll      :peace:

I will again state that I hope none of this happens or is happening.  I'm personally holding out some sort of hope (however misguided) that GH will 'disappear' and CD will be forthcoming shortly thereafter.  I do agree with others that Axl's personality and these type of tactics mix like oil and water.  I think its just that the question is at this point: Does the label really care?  Money is money, period - and no amount of our passionate fanboy / fangirl gushing is going to change the numbers at the bottoms of the balance sheets.

-darknemus

strange how Mike Piazza of all people end up with this. Why would the label choose him to spearhead this attempt at antagonism.

I don't know if i believe it, but the fact that Axl doesn't want this released means, in my mind,  that he is close to turning this album over.


Either that or will will have world war 3, ending in the destruction of CD's masters and axl's inclusion into the mental hospital.

That's what I'd like to think but with the press release we had today (not to mention the fact that Geffen basically never said anything about Chinese Democracy -- Sanctuary always did), I doubt GH will disappear again...which really sucks in a lot of ways apparently.

Listen to yourselves....you're all NUTS!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Dark. Your posts are always a great read!

Rock on!

/
SiL

thats why we're here




rock n' roll

I hope there is a way to get rid of GH, is there still away to do it, Is there hope for us Gunners to see CD, to experience what many here have been waiting for since UYI I & II came out.  I don't know if its because its late or what but at times the GNR situation really pisses me off as a fan, I wish they could just get their act together and wrap shit up and release CD :rant:. Is there any hope of GH going to hell and CD coming out? :(

Cheers dark, your info posts are always a good read. : ok:

If IRS was a final mix, they should have put it on GH as a bonus track after all the publicity last year.

They can't do that - at least, from my understanding.  Axl's 'creative control' clauses in the contract would allow him to control the release (official, anyway) of any material recorded since the contract has been signed.  That would cover IRS or anything else done during the Chinese Democracy sessions.

-darknemus

thanks for info Dark!

so we should get the postponed ad with in few weeks, if we are going to here the new album sometime soon? (as mysteron has told also). and what is this talk about label dropping GNR, I thought they were into this together fighting against Universal..

Until there is proven material breech of contract (and it would have to be on the part of Axl, not the label), or until a certain time period passes from the contract expiration (I think it's 20 years, but I can never remember), the label can't publish the material without artist (or the artist's estate, if they're dead) consent.  Hence, the whole saga with the new Nirvana song on their GH album.  Kurt's estate (meaning his ho-bag "wife") had to approve the release....

The label IS Universal (indirectly, at least...Geffen is their label, owned by Interscop, owned by Universal Music).  Their MANAGEMENT company, however, is Sanctuary.  

There's a few problems with this post.  I'm not going to Flame just state a key fact.

Everyone here knows what it is....  

Anyone that posts so-called inside information NEVER NAMES A NAME.

That to me is the key point.

Second and this is mostly speculation on my part.  But I do not see why a record label would release songs to a File Sharing Network.  This has the potential to really hurt the sales of the album.  The point here is that Axl has already had his "advance" from the album.  If the album was to ever make the light of day, then the record company would then get their advance back and probably additional, before GNR starts making any significant profit off of it.

That's the way the business works.

Personally, my opinion is that the New GNR sucks, and I'll take MR. Brownstone over The Blues, or Chinese Democracy any day.  That is the core problem, this album doesn't Rock and I dont' think it will ever see the light of day.  I have 10 years of evidence to back me up on that one.

But I'll buy it if it comes out.

I agree 100 percent...the label isnt going to put the songs on a file sharing network...come on get real..... and all this talk about "creative control" "and all songs recorded after the contract was signed"  how the hell would some nerd on the internet know when the contract was signed? this is prob the same contract that was signed in the SLASH days....sure the GnR members have changed, but the contract is still between the label and GnR..... Thats why the GnR name is worth so much...due to the huge advance money that the next GnR record is promised..... think what you want but in the end we all know nothing...

All of these rumors are getting old.....The truth is finally here, and it seems that some of you can't accept the fact that GH will most likely be the end of Gun n Roses. This will be the last official release by these guys.....You have to realize that Axl's silence is his way of telling fans that he is done. Im sure 5 years from now, Ill check this site, and you guys will be here listing "sources" who know when Chinese Democracy will finally come out. Let me be your source and say "It's Over"....go find another band to bow down to...Tesla is finally coming out with a new album in March...maybe you guys can check that one out.

the end of GNR huh? Who else thinks so in here???
I don't but if you look at it realisticly thant everybody in here needs to admit that a lot of things are "hinting" in that direction.

 ???

thanks for clearing up! I have mixed a couple of those things up.

Greatest Hits will not be the end of Guns and Roses.  It is however the end of the old GNR but it also is the start of the new GNR.  There are a ton of bands that have released GH but they did not end.  There is no one but you who thinks this way.  

Oh and Tesla?? WTF? :confused: :rofl:

I'm not part of any scam.

My username is actually my real name! Hard to imagine right? ;)



Why would the record company leak album tracks? They're the ones making money of the sold albums..... They're the ones who usually get pissed when an album leaks before its release.  ???


/jarmo

""  how the hell would some nerd on the internet know when the contract was signed? this is prob the same contract that was signed in the SLASH days....sure the GnR members have changed, but the contract is still between the label and GnR..... "

Because that's how it works in a standard industry contract.  I can't imagine why Axl and the band would sign away what is a standard artist "right" (creative control over when material is initially released/published).  If anything, I would expect them to have demanded MORE control, etc, rather than less.

And I certainly don't see where dark speculates when the contract was signed....only that there is one.  He could, perhaps, have been more clear and said "when any new material is released for the first time (officially, at least)" but I think his point was obvious.

I agree.  That's the one part of dark's info I find to be less likely to happen.  The rest of his post is logical, and relatively plausible.  The File Sharing Network piece I find to be unlikely, not just because of the fact it would likely lead to lost revenue, etc, but because it would set a dangerous legal precedent.  The RIAA would be hard pressed to sue illegal downloader if/when a major label allowed/initiated a way for consumers to download new material copyrighted material for free. Hell, the label could face a huge lawsuit from the band, itself.  I'm not sure they'd be willing to risk that kind of exposure.

I sure believe the "all hell has broken loose" part of the post... Seriously - it's a madhouse anywhere GnR related now.

Totally right! That's what I said a couple of days ago, Axl will NEVER say "Guns n' Roses is over". He won't tell a word. never. if it's over, don't expect him to say it is. he is too proud to recognize he failed.

That's a good point.

Also, while dark's theory is logical and relatively plausible (though I do think it's a bit of a stretch), there's also a another theory that's completely logical and also plausible.

The Greatest Hits release is something Axl doesn't want, but doesn't have the power to stop, like, apparently, the recently released DVDs.  Geffen wants to release it because they think it'll help improve the sales of Chinese Democracy, Axl doesn't want anything to do with the old band being put out there, especially since he feels there's already been a Greatest Hits type release for the old band (Live Era).  It's not punishment by the label, it's them doing and being what they are - a corporation, trying to make money.

According to Mysteron, who as I've said before has been proven to be legit, and never said a single word which anyone can disprove, the management is preparing for the release of CD regardless of GH.

This appears to be a much more simple explanation, and it fits with all the facts we know.  All the doomsday predictions are people freaking out and thinking this might be the end of it all.  I think we should all just chill for a little longer and wait and see what happens.  Something is definitely going to happen soon.

That said, dark could be absolutely right, and this could be the beginning of a gigantic clusterfuck, so, those who feel so inclined, continue the speculation......

way to say the exact same thing i did...... :D

No offense to Dark, I think his chain is being yanked.

I don't see a record label sending an unreleased track to a Baseball player, not even knowing that he's going to be headed to a radio station at 1 in the morning not long afterwards. Not unless they're stupid and lucky or own a crystal ball. It doesn't make sense on any level for a record label to do this at all. I do see Axl doing this.

The GH was coming out with the DVD's. IMO, I think the GH was coming out around the time CD was going to be released all along. They know some fans who will buy CD wouldn't own the back records (the younger crowd) and they could make some added money with a "hits" CD, along with releasing DVD's for fans who were into GNR back in the day, with the hope they'll buy the GH's just because its an official GNR CD. Remember - Axl at the Zeppelin thing said he hoped to have CD out before 2004, so this could have been what the label was told - It wasn't ready for some reason so the GH"s was pulled, but they went ahead and released the DVD's anyway. They knew old fans would buy the DVD's, and they'll still be on the market once CD hits

Also, Darks story shows almost all the parties perspective, which would mean his insider would be close to all parties. That's not realistic :no:

A record label won't put music on the net for free that they can sell. It just won't happen that way. An artist might, but a label NEVER would.

The label really wouldn't have to twist Axl's arm with a greatest hits album. If that was the case they could just take CD and release it themselves (hell, if they got their hands on IRS and are threatening to put other songs on the web, they could very much take CD and release it and actually make money off of it).

If the songs are leaked, that will set Axl up in a great light for a law suit. Especially since they told them their plans, or he's aware of it somehow... Which really doesn't make sense! If he's prepared for this, it wouldn't be hard for him to trace who leaked the songs. But the main thing is: Labels will not work with file sharing groups, certainly not releasing anything they could sell. This would give Axl a great opportunity to sue Geffen and win.

None of this makes any sense.

I'm quite happy to name my sources

The Tommy dates was Tommy's booking agent. A friend. The GH saga was management back in Nov. Obviously it's all public now. Rock am ring stuff was Marek. Janes Addiction info was gnr management. They have the same managers. Download festival info was Clearchannel UK, a friend works there. Other festival info was mostly clearchannel overseas. Rumor shootdowns have been management. Gnr's Euro booking agent sorted out the festival hoaxes. The Street team is me and a few record industry friends, who also help link me up to people I don't know. And that's it. No mystery

As for general conspiracy theories, I honestly don't know. But it's interesting to read anyway. All I know is, Gnr are plodding on with their CD plans, and that's all that matters to me; source - management

I like that.... Plodding on....

The GH's could be very simple. Axl could be against it because he doesn't want anything released with the old members on it before CD is released. The label wants to make extra money by releasing a GH's before CD is released, because when a kid goes to the record store who wasn't into GNR before hand, they'll see a greatest hits package sitting on the shelf right next to CD. If it was as serious as its being made out to be, he would have sued Geffen long ago.

My opinion - A gh's release means CD is coming soon. But that's just my opinion.

and if I remember right, you stated to wait about 8 weeks or so..perhaps then we should know something more about CD. this source is from management also?

Mysteron, I haven't been following any of this..... So it is safe to say CD is done, finished, ready to roll, and the management is planning it's release?

No, it's not

I have my reasons for saying that, but it's based on opinion and not any information. It's all quite long winded and boring really

Management are planning it's release; I don't know the status of CD, I'd be vague if I were to answer that

Remember, it's best not to ask me questions, otherwise people think I am a troublemaker insider person, which I am not  :hihi: If I have info, I will give it.

Mysteron, why can't you tell us if the cd is done??? I think most people's fears are that the record is not finished. The rest is just business but fans want to know if there is a COMPLETED album. :crying:

That question is never answered. Sorry

The best you have is what Dizzy said a few weeks ago on the radio

he said that it is done, managment is just deciding some details about how and when to release it.  So hopefully we will have it our hands, staring at it and  :drool: :drool:

Well not to be a smart ass (really I'm not), but how are they planning the release but you can't comment on the status of CD? They are planning something that may or may not be done?

What did Dizzy say on the radio a few weeks back?

I don't think you can expect Mysteron or anyone here to answer that question.

I think the CD is probably finished.  Most of the band seem to be free of solo comittments (so far) this summer, so I'm thinking we'll get word on something in March.  Something surely has to come out soon to confirm or rule out a Lisbon appearance.  If they do or don't do it then an official word would be the means of confirmation.

Mysteron, you say 'management are planning the release' - do you refer, specifically, to Sanctuary?

Let me see if I can phrase this question a bit more directly (thanks to someone who suggested this to me earlier, and it fits as well as anything else in the crazy GNR world)

Is it possible that Sanctuary might be trying to do an 'independent' release of CD - as in, not on the Interscope label?  And if thats possible, would it explain some of the what is seemingly 'not wanting to play ball' info coming from Interscopes side really being an issue of perception?  As in, they just want their money for GH and the DVDs and have cut some sort of deal with the band so that they dont incur the costs of promoting / marketing / distributing CD?

Hope that wasn't too convoluted sounding.

-darknemus

thanks for the post dark, always interesting.

also, i have heard of labels leaking tracks onto p2p networks in order to create some buzz.  the most recent one i know of was when evanescene's label leaked theirr whole album onto kazaa.  the trick was they put glitches in all the songs, every 10 seconds or so.  so if you wanted the songs glitch free you had to go out and buy the disc.  genius idea really.  if there is some sort of plan to pressure axl, i wouldn't be surprised if more leaks happened.  the label wouldn't be lossing any more money than if axl just sits on the record until the contract runs out.

Darknemus, Mysteron in the past has said he deals with Sanctuary people-the band's "management". Just for the record, I wish the band would go independent and I hope it happens-but, only after Chinese Democracy. Going independent now would be a LONG/longer wait. If any of you people are familiar with the band Wilco and it's history with their major label battle, going to an independent label can be a blessing. Reprise dropped them after the band delivered Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. The label let them take the cd and it ended up being their biggest selling album. It was all recorded for a documentary and is quite fascinating. The major label did not hear a "single" on the album so they negotiated an exit from the label. I am not saying that this will happen to Axl but it can and there could be a possibility he takes his new Gnr studio material with him. It is not far fetched. ;D

I don't buy into all the conspiracy theories about GH being a cover for CD, but one thing that strikes me as odd is that Geffen hasn't updated their website with GH in the upcoming releases. If they are truly fed up with GNR and are simply trying to re-coop lost money, you'd think they'd give it their "best effort" to market this thing. Updating their own website seems like a logical first step. Because this step hasn't been done yet, makes me wonder what in the hell is really going on?

Yeah, Sanctuary

As for your suggestions, I'm not aware of anything outlandish happening, but as you said, the world of gnr is crazy, so nothing can be ruled out (opinion)

Nah, the label is too busy sending out newGNR songs to major league baseball players :hihi:

I can see it being done to create buzz for a forthcoming album, not to threaten an artist. Still, no label is going to leak songs when they can sell them, and they're not going to tell an artist what their plans are (or anyone else), especially when it sets them up for a lawsuit.

That Wilco documentary I'm Trying To Break Your Heart was killer.

"Will you smell the babies butt to see if he needs to be changed?" :hihi:

It's just down to the questions that have been answered by management. With regard to planning, there has been a positive response, so I know that the planning is going on at present. However, with regard to the status of CD, there hasn't been a response since last October, when gnr were still doing 'final touches' to the record. Annoying eh

Mysteron, I'm curious if you've ever caught wind of management's confidence in the new record. Are they pretty sure it will do well? Also, have you personally heard any of the new stuff or heard descriptions of it? Sorry if you've answered these questions already.

They are extremely confident, and the record is supposed to be excellent

I've never heard anything though

It's shit like this that keeps my excited!

AA.

The only way i can see the label putting pressure on Axl with this is for them to put out the GH so that it fulfills some minimum album requirement in their contract

AFD
Lies
UYI
UYI II
Spaghetti
Live Era
GH

the label would then be in a position to drop them, knowing that legally they had fulfilled their contract and there would be no recourse on Axl's part to sue. It would seriously be a cutting of losses but who knows how far along this project is.

thanks for posting that dark. whether it is a substantialy correct prediction of what is yet to happen in the GnR world remains to be seen. i guess AFD and UYI 1&2 will hold me over for at least 8 more weeks... :-\

I don't think it's done to create a buzz. It's done to annoy the downloaders to the point where they go and buy the albums.



/jarmo

So this quote from Johan is not necessarily something to worry about:

Alright, let me see if I have this right (and to sum it up for the people who dont feel like reading through the past 5 pages).

We know about as much as we knew yesterday right? Okay cool.


The Greatest Hits Album is going to be released next month. An OFFICIAL Statement on this has been made. Other than, there's nothing else to see here.

Before anyone takes dark to task on this one, it was I who "suggested" it to him.  And not because I heard anything from anyone.  It was my own creation based on nothing more than my vivid imagination, and a couple of Mysteron's older posts (to be specific, there was a rumor that GnR was going to get dropped from the label or release CD independantly, and Mysteron commented that it wasn't so odd to see that, and how it could be done.....but not that it WOULD be done that way.  He was, I suspect, just explaining a "what if" scenario).

so dark's thread is all false then?

hi guys. just to pipe in again from what i heard is that Yes, CD IS done. Handed over, don't know. But done, apparently yes.

really????

umm, this is huge news if true.

vector, look for the thread i started yesterday... there is only one.

I t hink dark is full of shit, that is just my two cents
im sick of posts like this
look what dark is saying is bullshit
id believe dizzys wife over dark anyday

Purely speaking from our shared interest as fans, I hope you're right and that I'm "full of shit" - of course.. I am only relaying that what's been told to me - but it definitely has the potential to be as wrong as anything else in life.

Maybe you're sick of posts like this because reality scares you.  If you take a step back and look at everything, and I mean the BIG PICTURE - not what our deluded fanboy / fangirl minds lead us to believe - there is something seriously wrong with not hearing from Axl for almost 15 months now.  There is something that's definitely not kosher about a concert that's booked but that no one can seem to confirm.  There is DEFINITELY something wrong with a Greatest Hits album being scheduled, dropped, and now rescheduled.

So, disregarding EVERYTHING I've posted - those facts remain.  Now you take a look at them for a second with an objective eye and you tell me that everything appears to be hunky dory in GNR town.

Dave - you know what, I sure as hell hope I'm wrong.  I sure as hell hope that GH is just some big ruse for CD's release - or that Rio IV is just the beginning of a massive tour undertaking - I really, really do.  I'd love a perfect world where the red headed recluse flies into Philly, apologizes, and holds a free concert there.  Where he grants open interviews to radio jocks without freaking on them if they play the "Slash is in my ass, that's where Slash is" bit from Leeds.. Where he actually lets the music speak for itself and drops the primadonna act.

Axl is like the Veruca Salt (The Willy Wonka character - not the band) of the music industry.  He thinks if he stomps his foot enough and yells and screams, people will listen.  Sorry, but the extreme clout that Mr. Rose carried in the past doesn't seem to hold much water with the 'money people' right now.  So you go right on believing what you want to believe.  I'll just sit here and continue to hope that Axl realizes that every day that passes brings him one step closer to a horrid self-fulfilling prophecy of being, truly, a has-been.

-darknemus

 :nervous:

things have been ominous since december 2002. axl sure does make it hard to like him.

 However, with regard to the status of CD, there hasn't been a response since last October, when gnr were still doing 'final touches' to the record. Annoying eh

Dear Lord....

Ok, all of this info was a tremendous amount to digest....I leave for 2 days, and between Dark's post, Badgirl's info, and a little Mysteron thrown in for good measure, I'm a bit frazzled to say the least!!....My one question for you guys is this though:  In Dark's post, he claims the final mix of Cd hasn't been handed over....In badgirl's post, the Cd is, at the very least, complete.  According to Mysteron, he hasn't heard an update on CD's status since November;  If any of these are even remotely close to the case, how can Sanctuary be planning for a release on a project that is not done?  I like the notion of an independent release, and the person who raised that Wilco example brought up a great situation....The thing is, in Wilco's case, they paid their label $100,000 (I believe, if I recall correctly) for the masters of Yankee Foxtrot...If Axl/Sanctuary attempted the same, how could Axl POSSIBLY reimburse Universal for the millions upon millions that have been poured into CD?  Axl should be selling assets, not buying Mobil Horses!  
Maybe I've got some of the particulars wrong here, but in Wilco's case, the label didn't feel that Wilco's disc was commercially viable enough...If Universal is so impressed with CD and its eventual success, why would they even agree to sell the masters over to Axl?  Actually, take a step back...ARE the masters under Universal's control or Axl's here?
What seems more likely to me is that the GH unceremoniously ends GNR's contract with Universal, at which point, they will assume no financial responsibility whatsoever with regard to the manufacturing, distribution, and/or promotion of CD.....Axl could then be free to pay Universal all monies owed and go his own route...Of course, this again, is all assuming that Axl does have or can gain control of the masters....If someone could clear this up for me, it would help greatly in my analysis of these goings-on.....

Cheers
Joe

darknemus if this album comes out or not wont effect me either way.
My life does not revolve around this album coming out.
I just wish some other people would treat it that way too.

dave-gnfnr2k, yet another poster who is adding nothing to this conversation but their own overgeneralizations and arrogance.....Judging from the bottom of your posts, you take great pride in your association to the GNR community by pointing out who you are to every poster that sees your name....Let's get it straight, NO ONE'S life here revolves around a band or a collection of songs...We all have families, lives, concerns, fears, aspirations, etc....However, the main thing that binds us collectively is our love for GNR...We are on a GNR board, correct?  Therefore, the main thing that everyone here is willing to disclose, if nothing else, is their view on GNR and everything associated with it...If friendships and relationships grow out of that common interest, then so be it....Regardless of how well you presume to know someone on this board, unless you've developed a geniune rapport with them outside of it, you know but 1/10th, maybe 2, of their entire being...Don't make an assinine comment like that....

No, I'm ONLY talking about the question he asked Mysteron: The part about GnR releaseing CD "independantly".  His initial post has nothing to do with me.  Hope that clears things up....

Oneway, I brought up the Wilco reference. They did not have to pay for the album. Here is the link to the article at RS. Pilferk-Darknemus, Mysteron, and anyone else who is interested in what could happen (granted Gnr money is on a much larger scale but Gnr has also made a helluva lot more for Geffen than they have lost!!!) and is interested in band vs. label artistic issues should read this.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=15840&cf=57

PS There is also a Gnr mention at the bottom of the article-great lost albums??!!!

Dizzy was asked what the hold up is, if it's Axl.

Dizzy's reply: "It's not Axl, there's just a couple of details that need worked out." Harry joked that Geffen is merging with Duncan Hines (the bakery company), suggesting that's the problem.

Dizzy on 94.7 The Zone in Chicago, IL January 2004.



If Axl's not holding up the release, don't you think it might be done? :confused:



/jarmo

Jarmo, with all due respect, I've learned to completely disregard what Dizzy says, at least in public...According to his public statements, I think it's safe to say that Dizzy is speculating just as much as the rest of us....You should know better than to take this as Gospel...

joe

Madagas, that's really strange...I remember reading about Jeff Tweedy in RS in one of those one-page interviews they always have (I even remember he had a dress shirt and a blue sweater on!  Don't ask why!) that he had to pay $100,00 for the masters, which, although it was a lot of money for them, he said he felt that he felt it was the best career decision he ever made...I'm not doubting your info, but I know someone else mentioned in another thread that labels always own the masters, because the label controls release timetables...In GNR' case, I doubt Geffen would relinquish the tapes that easily, considering the investment....

joe

Edit:  According to the article you posted, Wilco did get it back for free...Really strange to see RS post conflicting reports, but going by this article, maybe Wilco got the masters for free because the label that actually released it ended up being an actual subsidiary of Reprise?  I dunno, just a guess...

Yet Another Edit:  Just went on RS.com...great news is new Wilco comes out on June 8th Madagas...This is great...Wilco and Modest Mouse in the same year!!!  

Ummm, at least he's in the band and not some guy posting on a board.

Even if I don't believe in everything he says, it's still interesting to read.


Instead of discussing the possibility that he was telling the truth, you just say "it's Dizzy, can't be true" and keep discussing stuff posted by board members.  :confused:


If Dizzy is telling the truth and saying CD is done, then wouldn't that mean this thread is just bullshit?


/jarmo

Interesting to read doesn't indicate truth, Jarmo.....Every rumor posted by an "insider"  and every vague comment posted by a band member is, at the very least, if nothing else, interesting to read because it gives us small glimmers of hope here and there.  Dizzy has been wrong on the release of CD just as much as anyone on this board...We did discuss the possibility of Dizzy telling the truth, the first 4 times...Now it just seems like he's crying wolf every time we hear from him...He's just doing his part to keep a possible release alive as much as we are...it just seems like you're being overly certain here that what he's said is the "truth", when it seems that the situation has gotten a lot worse since he did that interview.

joe

This album is never coming out! Its gonna be a war between GN'R and the record company and will go on for a few years then the record company will drop GN'R and then Axl will get back togther with Slash, Duff, Matt and will sign with another record company and will make huge money! : ok:

Im hoping anyway...lol

damn... just look at the mountain Axl has to climb before he reaches rock-bottom again in public opinion...  

He's done plenty of stupid shit in the past, but he still has the power to make things right again!  

This is no task for an ordinary man - they can just sit home and watch ESPN.

C'mon Axl!!   Make things right!

this situation is seriously fucked. You have to blame the redhead because no company in their right mind would allow an artist the freedom that axl has enjoyed. I don't blame them for applying some pressure but then again the GH doesn't give fans what they deserve.

if we don't get a release this year, axl should just give up because i'm almost there myself.

First off the reason for the thing at the bottom of my post its because someone else here last  year was using the name gnfnr2 and people were getting us confused, so there ya go.

Now on to your rant. Im sick of bullshit posts like this, they are getting very old, everyone knows its bullshit, and im tired of people freaking out over made up stuff.

This post is bullshit and im going to say it is.

Oh you would rather believe darks post on a message board who likes to pretend he knows what is going on over a member in the band?
That is a good one.

He never acutally claimed to know what was going on in the band...

Simple question: How come no other mainstream band has these kinds of problems and hassle?

How come bands like Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, Metallica, Limp Bizkit, Linkin Park, and just about every other big band (whether you like 'em or not) can get their stuff out without all this bullshit drama?

Tool and NIN fans have the same problems, so its not just gnr fans.

My personal guess is the sole separating factor is the frontman and his various personality 'quirks'.  Axl is.. unique, and that's both his best quality and his worse.  He reminds me of one of those people that dont work well unless everything is collapsing around them - oh well, we all have our own personality issues :)

-darknemus

Umm, dave, Trent doesnt just blow off shows, no-show events, yell at sound people, throw down the mike and storm off stage, tell Interviewers what questions to ask him, and attack audience members because they're taking pictures of him.  I don't think Maynard does, either.  Therefore, those bands fans don't have the issues with an extremely on the edge frontman like we do.

-darknemus

dark never says his posts are the truth, he just passes along what he hears.

and as for Dizzy...well, if the record was being held up for some reason because of Axl I really doubt Dizzy would come out and say it.  he'll say whatever looks best for the band.  i'm not saying i don't believe dizzy, cuz he is in the band and seems close to axl.  but if axl were the problem, there's no way in hell dizzy would admit it in an interview.  just some food for thought.

dave-gnfnr2k, regardless of whether or not you find a post to be BS, ALL I'm saying is that you will get on a message board, claim that you're sick of people living their lives around a CD, yet still post here everyday and debate every topic...Could I have articulated my point less harshly, yes, and I apologize to you, but I myself am absolutely sick of posters that come on and criticize others here for holding out on a dose of hope.....
As for Dizzy Reed's comments, I never stated that I believed or didn't believe one person over another....All I said to Jarmo was that I felt he shouldn't take Dizzy Reed's comments as proof, and that the past indicates that this is a logical conclusion.  Jarmo said he finds Dizzy's posts interesting, I said I preferred to discuss the more conspiracy-inclined stuff, that's all...For fuck's sake, I'm an X-files fan, and to tell you the truth, I don't actually believe most of the stuff I've heard in the last 2 years regarding GNR...it's just plain fun....sorry to ruffle feathers...carry on...have one on me!
 :beer:

Cheers,
Joe

Well, from what I've been told, a release of the Greatest Hits album should have minimal-to-no effect on the release of 'Chinese Democracy'. And yes, the album is finished, just the details about the release, promotion, etc. need to be decided, and that shouldn't take all that long. And I can vouch for Dark about the album definitely being out by late-May. My source is a woman very connected to the band  : ok:

How can you compare the situation with Tool to the situation with GNR? Sure, we have to wait a while for a Tool album but we have A Perfect Circle while we are waiting. It's not like Maynard just holes himself up somewhere for years on end.  He is out there utilizing his talents as much as possible by fronting 2 bands.

A bit off-topic, but can anyone remember when APC's Thirteenth Step was released hearing on MTV.com that the next Tool record would be a CD with an accompanying DVD movie ala the Wall?  Don't know if that still is or was ever the plan, but if I find it, I'll be sure to post...
joe

It was released back in September.

no, no, i have that GirlGunner, it had an ASTONISHING version of Led Zep's No Quarter on it...this project is completely separate..

Edit: Ok GirlGunner, it was actually when Lateralus came out, so it's fairly outdated (outside the world of GNR, 2001 is ancient history....lol), but they talk about the desire to make a "wall type film" and the financial obstacles, but the CD or "soundtrack" as Maynard called it, was simply conjecture by MJK....Here's the link if any of you are intrigued....

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1443818/05172001/tool.jhtml

Cheers,
Joe

Oh my mistake, I thought you were asking when Thirtheenth Step was released.  :-[ Thanks for the link!

No worries Gunner...I'll be ecstatic if even half of that turns out to be the case....
cheers
joe

I can compare Axl to trent and maynard easily.
Even see how long it takes between tool and nins albums?
And APC doesnt count since its not manyards baby, its the guitarist.

And yes dark maynard does run off stage pissed off and throws his mike down.
At the tool show in boston he fucked up some lyrics and walked off stage and let the band finish the rest of the song by themselves.

Also how long has tapeworm (trent and maynards project) being in the works? Quite a long time.

oneway23 last time i looked i dont debate every topic and only post here about 2 times a day, i hardly post on any gnr boards right now since nothing is going on but bullshit like this post.  And if someone is going to make up shit in  a post like this, im going to call it bullshit.

Dizzys wife read this post and said this is the first she has heard of any of it, so what does that tell you?
Its bullshit. End of story.

Where did you hear this?  And more importantly, why do you believe it?  Did I miss something?


And Tiedhands, I'd like to hear the stroy of why you can't tell us your source.  I never get tired of hearing how someone can't give out their source.

/Tulip

Dizzy's wife posts on the Dizzy Fuckin' Reed board, and she said it there.

She mods at the dizzy fan site, and said it.
And why do i believe it? ITs dizzys wife.
Id take her word over darks anyday.

What does it tell me?  It tells me one of three things.

A. The information my friend has is wrong, period.  Quite possible.

or:

B. Dizzy & Lisa are just as much in the dark as anyone else is in regards to GNR.  Which leads me to point C.

C. The story being told by Sanctuary (where it seems like Mysteron gets most of his information from) and Interscope (Which is definitely my friends source for the majority of his information) are on totally opposite ends of the spectrum.  This would also explain all sorts of anomalies, including but not limited to:

1. Axl being at odds with GH's release - going so far as considering a lawsuit.

2. Sanctuary mentioning preparing for the albums release - but no talk of such coming from the Interscope side of things.

3. No mention of Rio IV on gnronline.com - the site currently maintained by Interscope, not by Sanctuary.

As far as Maynard getting pissed and tossing his mike down.  Its one song - not one show.. at least the guy shows up where he's booked.  And, just TRY to tell me that information is less free-flowing from the TOOL / NIN camps than it ever is with GNR.  And if you do that, be sure to cite examples - because I sure dont see them.  Trent & Maynard may take a while - but at least they don't have Concert Promotion publications saying that either are "No longer an arena act".

dave, take off the rose covered (no pun intended) glasses and start seeing the forest through the trees.  There's chaos in GNR world - and no amount of Dizzy's "uh huh, its coming" and Bucket's introductions as "Guns n' Roses guitarist" events are going to settle things down.  Unless and until the red headed recluse decides to speak up - expect this kind of stuff to only get worse.  Just wait until someone's current contract with GNR ends - I cant WAIT to see people speak when they're freely allowed to.

I love Axl as much as anyone - but pretty much ALL of this is his fault.  The sooner HE realizes that, the sooner that he can let the music calm the masses and make the last 10 years fade away as the opening riffs of the disc take us away.

Until then, sorry - but where there's smoke, there's fire.  Call me a liar and a BS artist and anything else you want - but look at the undeniable facts and you'll see the reality of the situation.

-darknemus

GNR are dead people.  The sooner you can accept this, the better off you'll be in the summer when you hear the bad news :yes:

I really like Dark, and respect him, but he doesn't have the best judgement in people (Latigo, Raoxsle person, the person who made the fake Finck interview...) and he has been wrong with his information before. I don't really remember when he's been right. But I still dig his posts :)

Tied hands does have a source close to the band. I would take his information over some radio MD from Florida any day of the week. I'm not saying Tied Hands source is telling him the full truth, because I don't know. I know he's not lying, and I'll ask people not to PM the guy with questions. He won't tell you anything, and he doesn't need to be grilled. Just take what he says with a grain of salt if you want, or believe him.

Well tied hands mentioned the end of May thing.  Which would fit in with what I heard last November, when GH was pulled for the first time.  That an agreement was made to release CD within 6 months (that period ending at the end of May) - the same person told me this that has relayed the current gloom and doom scenario.  I just think its a situation of things being constantly fluid.

Oh, and what the hell, I'll address these points:

The fake Finck interview: Actually, if I recall, I helped debunk the thing.  It was a while ago now, though.

raoxsle: There were some things that raoxsle posted that made me buy into his authenticity, with certain caveats.  I also posted some positive public comments about the individual to lull him into a false sense of private security - all a part of the chase, so to speak.  I was specifically looking for matching patterns in text / typing style to see if I could place exactly who the person was.  There's a bit of backstory on the raoxsle thing that directly ties into the evil name I'll mention next (only because you did first)

Latigo: I've promised an eventual full disclosure on that story - and it will be forthcoming.  If you know me, then you know I want to do my best to have all my information laid out in a logical coherent order before I attempt to explain it to others.  It is near impossible for anyone to understand the reasons why there were many of us convinced of the authenticity on this issue - not just me, mind you.  Its been all about research and cross-checking of facts since day one on the Latigo situation.  Ask anyone that knows me (mostly the people I chat with on an almost daily basis) and they might be able to provide you a bit more insight on my character and my quirks.

-darknemus

Well, I'm giving you full benefit of the doubt, Dark  : ok:

The fake Finck interview was when the kid sent you the supposed article and you said it looked legit, even though it had articles over a year old surrounding it, and it wasn't a very good paste job :hihi:

I don't doubt you've been told this, but this isn't that difficult of a situation from what I understand, and no real conspiracy that effects the band or Chinese Democracy.

Yes, I remember the Finck thing now.  And my initial comments surrounding it.  I also recall that after I had a bit of time to do some research, I found links to the 'original' copy of the magazine - without the Finck article, hence debunking it.  I'm the first person to admit I can't tell the difference between a lousy paste job and a good one.  Aesthetics isn't my strong suit, most definitely.

And, for the record, I'd love tied hands to be right on the money and for us to get CD before the end of May, myself.  Because god knows I was jazzed when I initially got that info 6 months ago.  Its just the ups and downs of this roller coaster get a bit.. nerve racking after a while.  And yes, I realize some of that we fully bring upon ourselves - no one being more guilty of that stigma than myself.

-darknemus

There's been 'smoke' for years.... it comes and goes.. usually from the direction of the latest rumour... (regardless of the source)

Even what is heard around in the business has been passed down and altered and colored by those it passes through.
And even what is heard and passed down somewhat accurately...  can be out of date within a short period of time
Things change fast in the business.  What is proposed and considered can be shot down in one phonecall.  

I think the chaos and atmosphere you describe is among the GN'R fan community - you yourself sound kinda frustrated...  because you are hearing this bad news ...  don't let it get to you darknemus...  like you said - it could just be bad info.
sure it could be an entire scenario that someone did in fact relate to someone else and that got passed down to your source... but still conjecture nonetheless.

anyway... i manage to keep my head up and not get bogged down in the chaos too much because ultimately I believe in Axl - yes, the very same man you say is the cause of all of this  ;)

don't let 'em turn you
he hasn't REALLY done anything TO us now has he
he's been quiet
but there really isn't anything SO WRONG with that
when he has something to tell us he will speak
til then
keep yer head up dude  :peace:

Oh, dont worry, I'm fully aware of how the story can change from person to person :)  Prime Example: The Bible - and there have been billions of others since then.

I guess I sound frustrated mostly out of a selfish desire to hear the damn material already - and on a strictly personal note, I'm really fucking pissed I missed out on snagging a copy of whatever was played on Trunk's show that night by a few hours.

As far as believing in Axl - I'm right there with you - I know in my heart of hearts that, once the music is out there, ALL OF THIS will go away - and the last 10 years, waiting wise, will become almost a non-issue.

-darknemus

Oh, come on, you are grasping at straws here. The point is Maynard is an active musician who rarely screws over his fans. He's human and flawed like you pointed out, but he knows how to behave like a proffesional. End of story. Stop trying to justify Axl's bad behavior by pointing out someone else's. It's so childish to say "well so and so does it so Axl can do it too." Give me a break. If you don't find anything wrong with Axl's behavior, fine, but please use a better argument to illustrate your point rather than using that 3rd grade excuse.

As for this thread, I don't blame you for not believing any of it because it's just rumors, but some of the things he says makes more sense than some of the crap certain people fall for time after time. Do I believe everything he said is right? No, not even close, but it does make logical sense that Geffen is highly irritated. Put yourself in Geffen's shoes and tell me how you could not be irritated waiting 13 years for the next GNR album.

I just want to publicly thank both darknemus and pilferk for putting in all the time they do to prove one way or another the many rumors that are thrown our way.

They may not always get it right the first time but they don't stop until they do.

Their posts are always interesting and they help a lazy GNR fan like myself find out whats real and whats not.

I also appreciate that they are not pro axl or anti axl but rather just objective.

Keep up the good work - it is appreciated by some of us.

I'd like to second noizzynofuture's post and also  thank dark, pilferk, and all of our resident detectives on the board...relentless in your pursuit of any info, and always on top of anything and everything...your posts, always logical and objective, at the very least provide some much needed spice and flavor to the frustrating world of GNR...kudos

 :beer:
joe

1) "yell at sound people": don't really know what you're talking about but a lot of people get really mad when they feel someone else's laziness is getting in the way of what they want to do and it's pretty clear to GN'R fans that Axl cares about doing things the right way.

2) "throw down the mike and storm off stage": same thing here... I haven't listened to the Patience Detroit mp3 closely but from listening to other songs from that night I got the impression the teleprompter was not working right that night. Same reason as your complaint #1.

3) "tell Interviewers what questions to ask him": this is BS. When the 'list of things that can't be asked' appeared anyone with a good mind remembered the interview where Axl talked about some of those topics. I thought you would know that.

4) "attack audience members because they're taking pictures of him": this again is purely misinformed. You don't know the whole story there. I've read something which I can't prove so I won't say here; send me a pm or search the web forums. But even if the story I read was BS you can't critize Axl on that because you still don't know exactly what happened.

And about "those bands fans don't have the issues with an extremely on the edge frontman like we do"... who here is perfect?
--
As for the contents of the original post: like most of darknemus' posts, very interesting read. All his posts would make a great book. Unfortunately, though, a book mostly of things that haven't happened yet.

As for me, I continue to believe GN'R will do a tour of "oldies but goodies" in Europe and only after that release the album. But we can only wait.

1. The infamous "OK, NEVERMIND!" at Rio is the prime example I'm thinking of on this one.  If you watch the video, its obvious he's about to have a coronary.

2. He's thrown down the microphone a number of times - and, I'm sorry, but the guy's sung the damn songs 1000 times each -with the exception of the CD tracks.. can someone honestly explain to me the need for a teleprompter?

3. The pre-screened Interview stuff comes from a number of sources - one of the local DJs here, Paul Castronovo said they actually had an interview with Axl taped but due to 'certain content' in the Interview, Mr. Rose disapproved of its use on the air.

4. You're 100% right - I don't know exactly what happened.  However, I do know what the public perception is of what happened - and that's what sticks, unfortunately.

By the way, I'm not posting this to counter you or be a dick - I'm just trying to show that, when you step back and look at this stuff objectively - some of the behavior is much like that of my 12 year old nephews.. and yes, I'm the first to admit its one of the things that makes Axl so interesting.. And, yes, this is truly, Rock n' Roll.

-darknemus

When did Axl start using a teleprompter?  

He certainly didnt use one back in their club days.  It's not very rock n roll  :rant:

They should just rehearse more.  And you're right about public perception - it can be more damaging than anything he actually did.

Prompters are pretty common with big-budget bands. Mick Jagger's been using one since at least Steel Wheels, if not longer. You will recall that when Axl and Izzy played with them in 89 they chose "Salt of the Earth", and none of the Stones even remembered the song. Granted, Axl usually sings from the same 20-25 songs, but the effect is the same - you focus on the performance and your mind can wander.  

Yeah, he never turned up to soundchecks or rehearsals, so that wouldn't have done much good.

Dark I dont look through rose colored glasses at all.
I Just dont belive all the bullshit rumors I read online unlike some people.
Like Axl said, the internet is as big garbage can, dont believe everything  you read.
And I dont.
Unless I hear something offical, i dont believe anything.

I am not justifing anything, a point was made that maynard doesnt throw down his mic and walk off stage yet he does and i disproved that theory.
I dont see how giving an example when maynard has thrown down his mic and walked off stage when it was said he doesnt do that a 3rd grade excuse.
Grow up and dont be pissy because i proved dark or who ever said that wrong.

And again get your facts straight, Geffen has not been waiting 13 years for an album, stop making up stuff, it has only been since 1999 which is 5 years which might i add is how long it takes tool and nin in between albums.

IF the day ever comes when Geffen drops Axl/GN'R THEN we can really talk about why...
... in the meantime, whats really hard to ignore is the FACT that whatever/however Axl does/has done... they are dealing with it.  And no one knows their reasons for that better than they do...  I for one can only assume that its because ultimately they see it to be in thier best interests to do so.  No one is doing anyone any fucking favors here.  The record company is not doing Axl any favors... Axl is not doing them any favors...  Its business between them.  As far as the fans - Axl does not owe us a damn thing... No guarantees have ever been issued...  If you are waiting for this album then thats your own damn decision... If you are pissed about havign tickets to a cancelled show - fine thats understandable BUT you must understand that THAT is all part and parcel of being a fan.  THE SAME WAY GEFFEN ACCEPTS THAT WHAT IS GOING ON IS PART AND PARCEL OF HAVING AXL/GNR ON YOUR TALENT ROSTER.

No one is forcing anyone to put up with anything.  No one is doing any one any favors here.
Its entertainment.  When BOTH Axl and Geffen agree that everything is in order the product will be made available to us.

I KNOW its difficult to put things in this perspective because for many of us we see it as so much more than entertainment.  But if you strip everything down to its most common denominators thats all it is - a commodity.

Axl/GN'R produce the product.  Geffen peddles it.  We choose to buy it or not.
For us hardcore fans it could come out a year or 10 years from now and we will still buy it - they don't need to 'sell it' to us.  They are preparing to sell it to the masses.  

And they ARE fighting a negative perception (regardless of the baisis for that)... they are very well aware of the controversy that surrounds the product they hope to peddle...  So who knows what it is that they are hoping to do to deal with that.  Could be that they are figuring that they will try and use Axl's 'reputation' to their advantage to gain publicity.
Could be that they REALLY ARE trying to piss him off so that he will speak out.

Motherfukers...  when i think about it...   ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS MONEY - that is what the art we love is reduced to in their eyes.  But hey thats the reality of things.  The record company has no heart.   I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU ALL CAN AT LEAST GIVE AXL THAT MUCH CREDIT.   HE IS ALL HEART.  This is his life's work for the past decade of his life.

Who here can attest to dedicating such an extended period of time on any one goal.
Other than raising my children and nurturing my marrige I can truly say that I have not.

So you gotta expect that this is a showdown.  A showdown between a cold calculating money making machine... and a man's blood sweat and tears and what he is or is not willing to sell or compromise.

as far as all the other stuff in this thread about Axl's temperment - so fucking what - i've said it before as have MANY others who are wise enough to see it - ITS IS ALL PART OF WHAT MAKES AXL WHO HE IS - you can't expect a person to only have positive passions... where waters run deep for love and creativity.. they also run deep for frustration and anger... and sadness.   Anyone who is capable  of feeing so intensely - is bound to experience it at both ends of the spectrum.

I've gone on longer than I intended and sorry for going off topic (I think!)  hehe
Bototm line...  obviously I have deep appreciation and respect for Axl and what he has exposed himself to (he doesn't NEED any of this shit)... what he has done not for us - but for what he has shared with us.

If Geffen is out to teach Axl a lesson... then I think they are really trying to fuck the wrong tree.  Its been said a million times - Axl is the rockstar that people either love or love to hate.  Eitherway  people give a shit - and will fork over the dollar for the priveledge to do so.

axl is willing to commit career suicide in order to spite the label; i have no doubt about that. He has always severed ties with those he considers to be enemies.

there is one option that hasn't been mentioned; it is possible that the perception of the new band is so bad that the label demands axl reform with the old guys or be dropped.. this would be a demand well down the line, probably dependent on the failure of CD. It would be interesting to know what he would do, eat crow or not eat.

It's funny how none of you have on grain of proof saying axl rose is against this album. He may not even know about this album and for that matter he may be BEHIND this album.

Show me the proof axl is against this album. Now your speculation mind you..show me hard proof.

yeah , I thought so.

we don't have a grain of proof that CD and its follow ups exist at all aside from five new songs. asking for proof of anything on a gnr board is asking for trouble.

Totally irelevant KV since we arent talking about democracy. We do have proof that the "hits" exist though.. promo copies popping up on ebay , press release from the label..a RELEASE date.

I say fuck it , I hope this album comes out just to spite axl. Hopefully it will piss him off a lil and get him off his ass and do something or just give up..one way or another.

Hopefully if he feels "helpless" and cant stop the hits from happening them he might just have a small glimpse of how the people in vancouver and philly felt when he didnt show up.

"aint it fun when you've broken up every band that you ever begun"

there isn't concrete proof that axl is against it but there are rumors. Blabbermouth reported that axl is considering a lawsuit plus Mysteron said the band was against it six months ago. MTV / Vh1 picked up the lawsuit story as well. I don't think there is much doubt that the redhead does not want this to come out.

Asking for proof of axl's state of mind is irrelevent because he doesn't talk to us. We only get secondary or tertiary confirmation at best.

As for the album itself, the tracklist sucks. These are the mainstream "hit" guns songs; it does nothing for the loyal fans who have hung around this long, and give us nothing new except for a digipack cover and remastering. No new song, no promise of a new song or album, or anything. it seems only die hard fans would be interested in a remastering but there are offering nothing more than just that. If they wanted to get new and old fans onboard then offer up something for each demographic. But instead we get a repackaging of old familiar songs from a band that doesn't exist anymore. Which is itself a problem.  The label must give the new guys their credit and not promote the work of slash and co when they chose to leave and do something else (which is actually the same thing as they were doing 10 years ago)

For a band with as few songs as GnR have, to put out a GH played by a band that doesn't exist anymore cries foul. this is a money making play on behalf of the label and not an opportunity to promote the artistry of the new band.

'rumours' is the word. Anyone could start them. I don't know what's going on, but I'm not convinced of the accuracy of reports on Axl's 'problem' with GH. Is he slightly annoyed, really considering legal action?, who knows really?

Where do these rumours come from?

@#$%Muther

"Blabbermouth reported that axl is considering a lawsuit plus Mysteron said the band was against it six months ago."

Well then , what more proof could we ask for?  


"As for the album itself, the tracklist sucks. These are the mainstream "hit" guns songs; it does nothing for the loyal fans who have hung around this long, and give us nothing new except for a digipack cover and remastering. No new song, no promise of a new song or album, or anything. This band does not exist anymore. The label must give the new guys their credit and not promote the work of slash and co when they chose to leave and do something else (which is actually the same thing as they were doing 10 years ago)"

Again , you say the tracklist sucks..I say it rocks!! These are the songs the original GNR CHOSE to put out as singles!!! They ARE great songs! Thats MY opinion. It does nothing for loyal fans who've hung around this long because this wasnt created for "loyal" fans..this is a nice lil album for the non-hardcore fans a bunch of songs that WILL get some people hooked on GNR who probably never heard them before.

You say no new song , no promise of a new song? Well how on earth do you expect the label to put new songs on there? You want the label to learn to play and sing and record them thereselves?! Axl aint giving them shit... they cant just pull new songs from thin air. And how can they promise new songs when they probably dont hear from axl any more often then we do?

You say the label must give the new guys credit... credit for what exactly? They havent done shit all since joining GNR. One new song , OMG has been released. I liked it..but it wasnt a "hit" .... they tried touring , that bombed big time , they went on MTV and were redicled by everyone except us hardcore fans.

"No new song, no promise of a new song or album, or anything. This band does not exist anymore."

You got one thing very right there...this band doesnt seem to exist anymore.


"For a band with as few songs as GnR have, to put out a GH played by a band that doesn't exist anymore cries foul. this is a money making play on behalf of the label and not an opportunity to promote the artistry of the new band."

few songs? 4 albums jammed with great songs is more like it. The new band will have a hard time creating the body of work the old band did in such a short amount of time.

Money making play? I would hope it is...I certainly dont blame the label for wanting to finally make back a little money since axl hasnt made them a dime in years and years.

Promote the artistry of the new band?! WHAT artistry of the new band? Buckethead is the only guy in the band constantly releasing new music... you want the label to start sellimg prints of robins collages? Seriously , what artistry from this new band is there to promote..seriously..answer that.

I love the new band to death..I'm a staunch supporter but we aint hearing from them , they aint throwing us a bone..they havent spoken in over a year..they fucked up a tour and went home. And locked the door.

This GH album wasnt hurting anyone , nobody had to buy it..but one things for sure , that tracklist woulda won over a few younger people if and when they get a chance to buy it.

Just because me or you have heard all these songs a million times , just because we own the songs or dont think it's the BEST gnr songs dont mean squat. These ARE the singles GNR chose to release...

I just hope and pray it gets released.

As for the new band.. axl outta just put out an album or shut his fucking mouth about "you'll see it" "we'll be back next summer with a whole bunch of new songs" & crap like that....

The reason I won't give my source is because of several things: I let it slip once and I was bombarded with emails and PM's, and if I say something that turns out not to be true, I don't want any of the blame to be put on my source. Plus, I'm not sure about the details, but a lot of things I'm told are in complete confidence, so if someone found out I had repeated them, it could mean trouble for someone.

Excellent fukin post! I would add more comments but that post says it all......Good Stuff  :peace:

great post KV...

 :beer:

what i hope is that Axl and the whole band and thier management - that GUNS N' ROSES gets what they need from the record company to accomplish their goal - which is to come out with Chinese Democracy and take over the world!

Give 'em hell Axl!  Give 'em hell GN'R!  

GUNS!!! N!!! RO-SES!!!

GUNS!!! N!!! RO-SES!!!

GUNS!!! N!!! RO-SES!!!

"Again , you say the tracklist sucks..I say it rocks!! These are the songs the original GNR CHOSE to put out as singles!!! They ARE great songs! Thats MY opinion. It does nothing for loyal fans who've hung around this long because this wasnt created for "loyal" fans..this is a nice lil album for the non-hardcore fans a bunch of songs that WILL get some people hooked on GNR who probably never heard them before."

5 cover songs on a GH is pathetic. these are not the best GnR tracks. my opinion of course, but shared by many. As for loyal fans, who the hell else is around? why not throw a new song or an old unreleased demo or video extra on there to get the loyal fans to buy it.

"You say no new song , no promise of a new song? Well how on earth do you expect the label to put new songs on there? You want the label to learn to play and sing and record them thereselves?! Axl aint giving them shit... they cant just pull new songs from thin air. And how can they promise new songs when they probably dont hear from axl any more often then we do?"

lots of GH contain one or two new songs on it as a carrot to buy. if axl isn't compromising with this then maybe it is because they are wrong.

"You say the label must give the new guys credit... credit for what exactly? They havent done shit all since joining GNR. One new song , OMG has been released. I liked it..but it wasnt a "hit" .... they tried touring , that bombed big time , they went on MTV and were redicled by everyone except us hardcore fans."

the old band is dead. if the label is going to get a new album it will be from the new guys. i assume that the new guys are under contract and GnR is under contract with the label; therefore the new guys are under contract from the label. Why release old stuff from a band that is dead when the new guys have completed their work on the new album.

"You got one thing very right there...this band doesnt seem to exist anymore."

sorry you are on your little soapbox today but i am right about alot of things here. you are wrong.


"few songs? 4 albums jammed with great songs is more like it. The new band will have a hard time creating the body of work the old band did in such a short amount of time. "

AFD was great. UYI I and II were loaded with filler. TSI were all covers and Lies had only four decent songs on it.

"Money making play? I would hope it is...I certainly dont blame the label for wanting to finally make back a little money since axl hasnt made them a dime in years and years. "

axl wants to make his art. the label wants to cash out. this is a cash out ploy which doesn't make any effort to give back to the fans. it sucks. they could do alot of things for us; there is alot of material to draw from, either Live Performances or a second tier new song, but they would rather toss together a pathetic singles album of songs every one has heard instead of marketing the new band to old and new fans at once.


"Promote the artistry of the new band?! WHAT artistry of the new band? Buckethead is the only guy in the band constantly releasing new music... you want the label to start sellimg prints of robins collages? Seriously , what artistry from this new band is there to promote..seriously..answer that."

the new guys rock. If you don't realize this they you haven't been paying attention. I don't get why you chose today to formulate an opinion like this and spew it all over the board but you have. My point is that the label should be loyal to the people in the band now and not simply look to cash out. The new band is so good, the label has a great deal to draw from, live performances and some studio material. If the GH were a vehicle to get to know the new guys, i would say it's ok. But it is not. why not put the studio or live version of maddie or rhiad on there to showcase what the new band can do.

"I love the new band to death..I'm a staunch supporter but we aint hearing from them , they aint throwing us a bone..they havent spoken in over a year..they fucked up a tour and went home. And locked the door."

they don't hate on those of us who want to see them succeed.
"

"This GH album wasnt hurting anyone , nobody had to buy it..but one things for sure , that tracklist woulda won over a few younger people if and when they get a chance to buy it."

it does hurt GnR because it is a pathetic tracklist. Gnr isn't about 5 covers or about the old guys anymore. if there is to be a new album and new players, the time for the bucketheads and robin finck's is here. To remind everyone what it used to be makes it even more difficult for the public to accept the new guys.

"Just because me or you have heard all these songs a million times , just because we own the songs or dont think it's the BEST gnr songs dont mean squat. These ARE the singles GNR chose to release..."

then let the public get Live Era or better buy the albums because it's all out there. The general public doesn't care about remastering.


J"As for the new band.. axl outta just put out an album or shut his fucking mouth about "you'll see it" "we'll be back next summer with a whole bunch of new songs" & crap like that...."

who knows what is going on.

Just a heads up, guys, but TiedHands is legit.  I spoke with him a little, and I went to great lengths to validate him, and I'm 100% certain he's telling the truth.  This is a fact, not a conjecture on my part- I've directly confirmed that he's telling the truth.

Give him a break though, he's just trying to fill us in and keep us informed, he doesn't need to be barraged with PM's or anything.  He's telling us what he can already, and I really don't want to see him annoyed so he stops visiting.  : ok:

I think the tracklist rocks , I cant wait to hear the "remastered" afd songs , it'll be nice to have all the "singles" on one official compact disc , it will be GREAT to go into a store and buy a new GNR disc.

If Axl doesnt like it then he shoulda did something a couple years ago to stop it..release his album. If he really had faith in himself and his band and/or cared about fans he woulda had an album thats been 99.9% done according to everyone close to GNR out years ago.

If the label are looking to make a dollar by doing this then BIG SURPRISE!!! Thats what record labels do..try and make money. How many new releases has axl given them last few years to make money off of?

Thought so.

The greatest hits album is coming out no matter how much crying you all do , no matter how many threads you create and no matter how many petitions you sign... too bad. Buy it or ignore it.

It might be the only official GNR release you will be able to buy this year.  :'(

saul and i have nothing but love for each other so no matter how harsh my language gets, there is always respect, something i must remember sometimes when i hold onto my opinion as hard as i do.

I dont know this guy.  :P

But it sounds like he'd like to know you  ;)  Back on topic please.

ok the mods beat me to the bunch.

i hope this album gets pulled and quick.

I wonder what Dark and Mysterion have to say about things now?

Isn't it funny that it is exctly one year after this thread is first created?  Well it did take a year, but we did get TWAT and half of Better, maybe as a slap to AXL maybe as a promotion or maybe just by an innocent mistake.  One thing is clear, it seems likely that we will get an official statement from Sancuary this week.  The more WAAF and other stations play IRS, the greater the chance that this whole leak was planed and CD is finally coming out.

I dunno, my brain is tired of these little games everyone keeps playing with us.  I just hope somebody says somsthing soon...if they do, it's obviously good I guess...if not, than you know it's gotta be bad news for Axl and the rest of us.

I dunno...nice link to Milf Hunter though. LOL  :beer:

Thanks, what I really should do is just go to WAAF myself and ask the DJs what they know.  I do work in the same building and know a few of them.  Hopefully I will have a report tomorrow night.

"This point is big - its the 3rd time I've heard (from two different people now) in the last 8 months that there is a huge desire to 'punish' Axl for all of these delays.  IRS was step one in that punishment.  GH is step two.  leaks are step three.  step four is 'cut our losses and just drop this failed project'
"
:o Doesn't look too good. Though it took suspiciously long for the GN'R management to react. Is there any chance that Axl agreed to a realesedate and then they (=management) began to get the tracks off the radio and internet? ::)

This is the type of thing that should have a fresh post for... else people like me just read page one of the thread and wonder WTF is going on...

You're replying to a thread that's from 2004. This is why ppl should not ressurect old threads.

Also, dark's original theory was entertaining but highly unlikely for a number of legal reasons. We know why IRS was leaked the first time.

We already have enough duplicate threads.

2 years actually.? ;)

Yes. I'm aware of that. Just trying to bring "the new point of view" in discussion. And I don't know why IRS was leaked the first time, care to explain?

CREATE A NEW THREAD FOR THIS KINDA CRAP!

I actually thought this was something recent. A notice to everyone reading.. this thread started in 2004.

=/.

    -jack

ummm did you not read the part about "GH is coming out"?  Things like that (along with looking at the date of the post) are usually a dead giveaway.  I for one DESPISE new threads when they are not needed.  They are annoying as hell. 

It was cool to read that original post again.  I had forgotten about it.  God I cant believe it was that long ago....

Thank you for saving me the time and the anger...people sometimes, I tell ya.

Axl in 2003 at MTV VA: "Soon not is the word!"...
Axl in 2006: "People will hear music this year!"...

This is something that i prefer to call a fact. When Axl speaks i believe him. All rest is just a rumors.

About leaks - every band have leaks before releasing the new album - I`m mean EVERY!!! This is just part of the game called MUSIC INDUSTRY. Stop bullshiting here...

Then what about these threads:  ::)

News from wes' friend:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=25868.0

It's official - Management didn't leak the tracks:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=25792.0




(http://www.truecolor.741.com/000000/guns%20n%20roses%20chinese%20democracy.gif)

Actually, resurrecting this thread makes a ton of sense.  Why make a new one when continuing this one highlights the entire point people are trying to discuss, namely Dark's post from 2 years ago?

Those predictions from Dark two years ago look very interesting in light of recent developments ... any thoughts now regarding this post Dark?


READ THE DATE! DUHHHHHHHH!

Please don't resurrect 2-year-old threads. It's pointless.