fact or fiction chinese democracy will be out in 2004

[dave-gnfnr2k]

"They may play out at RIR 4, and they may do other shows, but I do not expect any mention of Chinese Democracy to be made.? All questions about the album will be deflected or answered in riddles that have no meaning.? Everyone expected Chinese Democracy to be released after GNR announced RIR 3, and it wasn't.? Everyone expected Chinese Democracy to be released after the GNR appearance at the 2002 VMA's and it wasn't.? Everyone expected Chinese Democracy to be released after *insert appearance here* and it wasn't.?"

That was part of my point.
There is only so many  times axl can push the album back and tweak it before the band either leaves of geffen makes axl put it out.
Also, axl even said at the VMAs the album wont be out any time soon, so no one should have expected it after that.

Also like i told a lot of people on this board in dec of 2002 the plan was to put CD out around labor day of 2003 which that didnt happen but if it does happen in early 2004 lets say march, then that is only 6 months difference which is not that big of a deal when compared to the UYIs.

[Jizzo]

My latest answer to any CD questions is. "Call me a week after axl dies, hopefully we'll know the date by then"

[C0ma]

I want to believe it's fact, every piece of me wants this to be a fact.

But.....

Fiction-

I completely disagree with the idea that something has to be released prior to the Lisbon show. Why not release some thing before the Vegas show, or the Rio show, or the Vegas shows, or for that matter the Asia/Euro tour, or the VMA performance, and finnally why not release something before a North American tour.......Why? because nothing is done logicaly in this band.........nothing is done in smart "human" time......it's all done in Axl time. This album isn't for us, this album is for Axl....and when Axl is ready maybe it will get released. Anyone who has any historical knowledge of the band knows that Axl doesn't need a reason or an album to do a show. If he hadn't been rushed to release the Illusion albums, he probably could have toured through 91' without an album......then Izzy would have left......then the album would have had to be re-recorded. Untill I get a press release with a date, I'm not going to hold my breath..

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Here are some reason I think CD was delayed a few times in 2000 and 2001.
In late 99/2000 Josh Freese left the band and Brain and BH joined. So brain had to redo most if not all of joshs drum parts, and bh had to add his parts to the album.

Then Paul left the band and Richard had to redo a lot or maybe all of his parts on the album, so that further delayed the album.

That is just a few reasons why i think they were not put out then.

[A.L.R.]

Fact.

All the stuff that happened the last couple years was driven by an impulse to perform and go out there, they weren't ready yet, they just needed the stage and to connect with the fans again.  They thought it was what they should do, it was what they wanted to do, but they wern't ready.  Now, the band has expieirenced the crowd together, created a base onto which the band will evolve on.  They created their deadline(RIR4), they have at least come close to finishing the album.  2004,  Let it begin.

A.L.R.

[D]

Fact, here are my points

1.)I think 2004 Will be the year of chinese democracy because thing are allready coming into shape for 2004 with RIR4 and a possible Germany show.I know this looks like history repeating its self but I knew Chinese Democracy would not be out in 2002-2003 as soon as the riot in Vancover Occured I felt that fucked any momentum for Guns n roses on that particular tour.

2.)I feel promotion has somewhat started with the re-release of welcome to the Videos and the '92tokyo show I know thise were thing that the old band did but,I think the record company is trying to see how much the name of Guns n Roses will appeal with the younger generation.

3.)I believe the new band had to take time to get the chemistry down and I believe it's there now and the band can work better with each other on stage and will be more able to put a better live show on for the crowd and will gain more fans with the better chemistry.

finally im scoring this game sorry people ive been busy

i believed c.d. was comin out until the end especially after the great msg show, i love the chemistry point it makes alot of sense cause chemistry was lacking some, it is strange that the record label put out the welcome to the videos and tokyos after all this time so that could be a possible sign u did good this round chinese, u get 8 points!

[D]

FACT!

All bias aside, Axl knows it's down to crunch-time. He knows, and everyone else in the world knows, that if the album isn't released next year, it will be the end of GNR. As much as it pains me to say that, it's the truth. Never before has there been such a demanding presence for the album. Before now, even as bad as it's been for us, there have been halfway plausible excuses, or even filler info from Tommy or Dizzy, stuff we already knew. That's pretty much all I can say. Everyone associated with the band has to be about ready to explode. I think it will be the greatest album ever, and the new band is my favorite band ever, but they know, I know, we all know they HAVE to put it out next year. Their careers hang in the balance...

yeah true it is coming down to crunch time but lets be real here even if axl doesnt put this out till 2008 we will buy it when he finally does, so im not ready to say its axl's last chance, i believe it will be the greatest album ever i dont know if axl can do anything else to destroy his career and after all this time i question if axl gives a fuck about his career i mean he's had a good life for almost 8 years now without music so i personally think he can take it or leave it, u made some good points however u get 6 points

[D]

I cant picture them not releasing it next year...

Then again, I cant picture them releasing it next year either...

Ill say fact.

great point booker thats how i feel, its like i know its comin out in 2004 but yet again i just cannot picture everholding it in my hand

short and sweet 6 points

[D]

This is a fact. There is going to be Rock Inr Rio4, and we know Axl ain't for cashing. Now when Axl's out to play in RIR4 and has earlier said that "when I got some product finished(new songs to be played), then I'll give somekind of information", I would assume that this is somekind of information from Axl and that the next step after the gig will be album releasing/marketing process. so yes, this is more fact than fiction.  

john daniels i swear i believe u can tap into my brain, im puttin my tinfoil helmet on bro! exaclty axl said that he wont give info till there is a new product so i to believe that axl wouldnt be doing rir4 if he didnt have something to release watch out for john here he is smoking right now!  8 points!

[D]

I'll have to go with fact

1. axl stated numerous times on last years tour, that there would be a bunch of new songs the next time they came around.

2. Band members have said 2004 and we hear that they have began rehearsing again. And I doubt that they would start a tour again, with no new songs.

3. We have been hearing about the finishing touches for awhile, one of these times it will be true.

4. Re-releasing of DVD's to get the gn'r name out there some more

All of these things add up to indicate that the cd will be out this year. However, with gn'r nothing is 100 percent definite.

well axl also said at rock in rio 3 in 2001 that he'd be back next summer with a bunch of new songs, rhiad and the bedouins dont count for me, i like the bandmember in 2004 thats what tommy said and its lookin legit the dvds of course and yes nothin is 100 percent in gnr    nice 6 points

[D]

Fact

Everything has been building to this point. All the rumours, the build up has already began with the dvd's and the announcement of RIR4. We know they have been putting finishing touches to the album since September.

The 2002 tour was merely to remind people that GNR were still around, in hindsight it is clear the album was never intended for release then...it was just to keep impatient fans happy.

RIR4 will the warm up show to a summer tour with the album arriving no more than a month before RIR4 to ensure it is not damaged by the post Xmas sales lull.

Early January GNR will update gnronline.com and the promotion will kick off

im not so sure izzy i think if the tour wouldve been massive without the hitches we wouldve had c.d. by now, i think the poor attendance showed axl that he had better put every big gun on c.d. and not wait for 3 records, i think it had something in his thought process, not sure if anyone runs gnronline! lol!  izzy u are my bro but u get 6 this round

[D]

Fact!

--Tommy Stinson said it would be out prior to his album, which was/is scheduled for February or March.

--Tommy did not tour for a second time as was originally supposed to happen, suggesting he had GNR obligations.

--Rock In Rio 4 PLUS the possibility of more Euro dates. No way Axl allows more new tracks to leak to the bootleg hounds.

--Dizzy Reed mention on HH website, which said Dizzy was flying back to LA for rehearsals.

--The sudden cancellation of the Greatest Hits disc. Probably only cancelled by Geffen under the express condition that Axl get the album out in 04.

nice nice nice nice nice, tommy not touring again to me is a hugeeee indicator alone, the cancellation of the greatest hits come on people how come nobody else thought of these? 8 points for nick

[D]

Fiction

Chinese Democracy has been awaited by fans for many years.  We may argue about how long it's been in production, but whether you start counting from the release date of The Spaghetti Incident, the date that Slash left the band, or the date that Axl first mentioned he had begun work on a new Guns N' Roses album, the fact is that it has been a hell of a long time for one album.

Now fans may argue that Axl is working on three albums, and that's why this is taking so long, but that argument only lessens any chance that we will see Chinese Democracy in 2004.  If Axl was going to release the album when it was done, we would have the album already.  Many people who have heard the material have come out and said it is excellent, but no one who has heard the material has said when it will be released.  We have heard from several band members that they are done with their parts for the album, and indeed I believe some members have been saying that for years now.  No member has said that they have anything to do on the album that has not already been recorded.  Thus we can assume that the album has been done already for some time now.  If there has been no move to release it yet, they why would we expect that it will be released in 2004.  It has more than likely been shelved for a length of time known to no one, perhaps not even W. Axl Rose.  

There were members of the band who said that the album would come out in summer 2001.  There have been band members guessing when the album will come out for quite a while now, and the lack of specifics leads me to believe that the album has been done since at least 2001 and that these members have no clue when it will be released.

In short there is no actual reason that the album should not have been released already, and since it has not yet been released, we must conclude that Axl is not ready to release the album.  If he is not ready, then it is ludicrous to place any hope in a 2004 release, because there is no reason to believe he will be any more ready in 2004 than he was in 2001, 2002 or 2003.  The band has made no official communication about their future plans since the cancellation of the Chinese Democracy North American tour in 2002, and no explaination given.  They have been silent for over a year and they will remain silent about the album through 2004.  It would be a miracle if they mentioned why the tour was cancelled.

They may play out at RIR 4, and they may do other shows, but I do not expect any mention of Chinese Democracy to be made.  All questions about the album will be deflected or answered in riddles that have no meaning.  Everyone expected Chinese Democracy to be released after GNR announced RIR 3, and it wasn't.  Everyone expected Chinese Democracy to be released after the GNR appearance at the 2002 VMA's and it wasn't.  Everyone expected Chinese Democracy to be released after *insert appearance here* and it wasn't.  

Any thought that Chinese Democracy will be released in 2004 is 100% fiction.

*end of argument*

Hey D,

Great idea man, I thought I was the only one who watched around the horn, this is a great style for debates on this board.  (and it never hurts to suck up to the scorekeeper)

 

yes around the horn is the greatest!  our first fiction i love that, great points it isnt guranteed they could just play rir4 and that be it, portugal didnt get a 2002 tour so it would be new to those fans so lets not get our hopes up to high and yes we all anticipated c.d.c omin out after the vmas remember

no way they would close the vma's and not release it but axl and his fuckin soon isnt the word speech

great arguments echristl  10 point answer for goin against the grain and makin great arguments for it not coming out which is very possible when it comes to axl

[D]

i didnt comment on everyones posts to save time but i scored everyone, look for the new game

[Skeba]

What you (D) also did, was post nine (!) posts in a row to a single topic. Double posting is sometimes annoying, this is beyond that. You could've anwered to the people in one post, or if it would've been too long, cut it in 2 posts. This just looks like you're just bumping up your post count. Big time. Even if it wasn't the case, it comes out that way.

Also, when you quote someone, try to quote only a part you're anwering to. Especially if it's a long post.

So in the future...

Thanks.

[D]

What you (D) also did, was post nine (!) posts in a row to a single topic. Double posting is sometimes annoying, this is beyond that. You could've anwered to the people in one post, or if it would've been too long, cut it in 2 posts. This just looks like you're just bumping up your post count. Big time. Even if it wasn't the case, it comes out that way.

Also, when you quote someone, try to quote only a part you're anwering to. Especially if it's a long post.

So in the future...

Thanks.

this may sound unbelievable but after all this time i still dont know how to quote certain parts! help!

sorry bout the posting i explained on the last one that in order to do this game correctly id have to post in a row, i dont care bout post count i mean jarmo can take the 10 or so off or whatever it is that i have to do in order to play this game effectively

this game is for the people on this board who enjoy it and i honestly dont know any other way to do it

[Gunner80]

I sure hope so!

[hninzipan]

Fact

-the rock in rio lisbon

-releasing of the dvds. they could have done it whenever but why now...to throw gnr to our attention again....

-in 2002 axl planned the tour thinking that old songs would do the trick and the tour would bring the togetherness to the band. Although europe was ever supporting of gnr, he found out that he just cant do an american tour just with old material. At the time the plan was prob to do the tour n finish off the album. Then the events of the tour made axl realized that he needed the album to tour the states. So europe will be a warm up( including the RIR 2004), before the album release and a subsequent US tour will follow. (who knows may b another album during the us tour or between us nad anotehr world tour )

-all other rumours pointing to the release

[BostonGunner]

Maybe VR will be a factor in the release of Chinese Democracy.  How would Axl feel if VR really took off, and sold 3 million copies, and Axl still had no album?  I think that maybe VR will make Axl not want to delay the album anymore than it has already.  

[Naupis]

Well.....I figured I would bump this so we could all see everyone's predictions and how they turned out. Funny how everyone is using the "has to be out in 05" logic using the exact same reasons people were using at the end of 03. Whether it comes or not no one knows, but I don't think any amount of logic answers this question.