Is it safe to admit releasing singles only didn’t work?

[slash&axl]

I was recently talking to some rock fans who were very surprised to hear Gnr had released 4 singles since the reunion and in ‘General’ have noticed almost no buzz what so ever about what Gnr released and I’ve been wondering if these had come out as a 4 song EP would it have made more of an impact?
I guess the idea of people consuming the 4 songs as one piece of work, or even the placing of a new release single vs EP on streaming sites (or something new under the Gnr name in our local record stores if you even have one) also may have made people care more, this is all speculative obviously and it does seem that all 4 songs are mastered at different volumes so it’s possible that could be one of the reasons.
This kind of came to my attention also with the Schenker release where I was very happy to pick up my vinyl in the local shop.
Going beyond that ramble, would most people rather wait for the next batch or prefer the drips and drabs approach?

[jarmo]

Maybe a combination. Singles and then combine them into a physical release to coincide with the last single.

But who knows. Albums seem to get more attention in the media, but not sure if the average music fan actually listens to full albums anymore. Seems to be more about singles and curated playlists.




/jarmo

[cineater]

I was on the release singles too as a way to get around the slow album sales for all bands.  I think you have look at the how the industry did with that as far as a marketing idea.  As far as GNR and singles, sorry to say it, but they failed on a musical level. 

I don't really know if they failed.  Don't know how they did as far as sales.  For me, those songs were fillers.  Nothing I would want to hear that often.  The videos were excellent though.

[Gavgnr]

I think they’ve been released too far apart for them to have any impact. Years between single releases is just too long.

Just my $0.02

[rebelhipi]

Im quite oldschool but i think albums are still the way to go.
Look at Taylor Swift. Billie Eilish. All doing albums.
In the rock world theres The Rolling Stones, Metallica and The Cure recently that made albums that made quite an impact.
And GNRs main target audience are not exactly teenagers.


Nothing wrong with singles tho.

Id like to think theres an album coming with new songs and these 2021-2023 singles were a stopgap

[ITARocker]

The true question is: it didn't work for what exactly? They are just a touring band that built its legacy between the late 80s and the early 90s. New songs don't move a single person (nobody go to the show to listen to hard skool) and a full album just matters for the die hard fans at this point in time.
So there's no question and there's no answer, they can do whatever they want, it doesn't change anything. If i was them and if it was for the "art" and the fun part only i'd put out the last album (full of new songs and 0 leftovers) to say "this is it". But if they don't have time to play togheter apart from live shows and they don't even have fun in doing that there's no reason to do that.

So at this point the most important thing is to bring some transparency they (he) never had: just tell what your intentions are cause after 30 years of "i don't know, we'll see, soon is the word, I don't mean being vague (actually being vague)" and so on it's just time. You don't owe anyone anything but some respect. That's my opinion.

[DeN]

singles are cool for the fans, but yeah the album is the way to go to
have a full support of the record company and a commercial strategy.

the last singles are very, very good, but the lack of promotion made
them a bit useless in terms of publicity.

[GNR4LIFEJD]

The issue to me is how music comes out now and basically a streaming source now. Radio play is basically dead at least where I live in NY you have 1 rock station in the Metro area 104.3 which is classic rock so your not getting any of the new stuff on there. I don't know how it is in other cities that might actually have rock stations if they even played New GNR Songs like The General or Perhaps on terrestrial radio. Maybe they would get played on the Boneyard on satellite radio and we are the die hards that come to sites like these the average fan still complains that Izzy and Steven being gone GNR is not the same even with Slash an Duff back. If GNR actually goes out and promotes an album release when/if that comes they should 100% do that this is not a knock on AXL but if you are not promoting your not building up excitement for the material coming out. My hope is that the release of those singles were to somewhat empty out the ChiDem vaults and prepare for original new songs by the current iteration of the band and that when an album does come out that there is publicitiy about it build up excitement.

[Bodhi]

I think there are a few factors in play here.  The main one is that the vast majority of rock fans don’t give a shit about new music from a band who’s been around as long as GNR have.  I don’t understand it, but it’s true, only diehard fans care if GNR or any veteran  rock band record another note for the rest of their careers.  And if they do record a new song, don’t even think about playing it live because that is when you will see a line for the bar or the  restrooms.  This is not GNR specific, it’s any rock band who’s been around for decades.   Did anybody care about Pearl Jam or Bon Jovi’s latest albums?  They both debuted at number 5 on the charts which’s sounds great but they both completely disappeared off the charts within 2 weeks. Diehard fans picked it up week one, and then nobody else noticed.  That latest Stones album was considered pretty good, what did it sell?  Does anyone going to a Stones show want to see Paint it Black dropped from the setlist for one of the new songs?  Can anyone who’s not in the Ten Club name one new Pearl Jam song from the last decade?   Oasis just sold out over 40 football stadiums around the world instantly. Now there is rumor of a new album.  How many people are going to want refunds on their tickets if this new album doesn’t happen?  Literally zero.

The new songs from GNR also had that stigma of being old songs.  My local radio station played the new ones but always introduced them as if they were left over tracks from years ago.  They played Perhaps like once or twice then went back to playing Jungle and  Sweet Child O Mine 5 times a day.   I also don’t think the “reworked “ label on the new songs hurt as much as other fans think, the response would have been the same if everything was written and recorded yesterday.


I do think if GNR put out a new record it would chart high and get some attention but it would disappear within the month and people would only want to hear the old stuff.  There is nothing a band like them can do to get any bigger at this point, they have reached as high as any band can go.   The same can be said about any of the bands I mentioned, and a bunch more.  I guess my point is it’s not that releasing singles didn’t work, it’s just once you reach a certain point, nothing is going to work.  

[ITARocker]

I do think if GNR put out a new record it would chart high and get some attention but it would disappear within the month and people would only want to hear the old stuff.  There is nothing a band like them can do to get any bigger at this point, they have reached as high as any band can go.   The same can be said about any of the bands I mentioned, and a bunch more.  I guess my point is it’s not that releasing singles didn’t work, it’s just once you reach a certain point, nothing is going to work.  

That's the point...people here somehow wait for a "boom" of this band, some kind of new and fresh recognition, so they are discussing the way they should put out music in order to get more attention/success... But that time is really over, they are a legacy band hyper tainted during all these years. You can't expect anything in that sense. If u look at any chart nowadays... yep maybe they could have a fast run in the top XX but it would last for a month like u said. Probably if they make a super undeniable masterpiece of a song  it would change things a little bit in terms of attention and strengthening of their legacy, but that's all.

[pilferk]

Im quite oldschool but i think albums are still the way to go.
Look at Taylor Swift. Billie Eilish. All doing albums.
In the rock world theres The Rolling Stones, Metallica and The Cure recently that made albums that made quite an impact.
And GNRs main target audience are not exactly teenagers.


Nothing wrong with singles tho.

Id like to think theres an album coming with new songs and these 2021-2023 singles were a stopgap

Meh.

Yes, T. Swift, Billy Eilish, Beyonce, and, to a significant but lesser extent, Sabrina Carpenter sell albums (and a fuck ton of merch).  Pop princesses are really the only people to move units in the industry, though. 

But the acts you list? I guess you need to define "quite the impact". Because the impact was not on the sales charts.  We are not talking millions of units sold for those albums.  We're talking hundreds of thousands to, maybe, right around a million units.

Hard Skool has 4.4 million views on youtube, for the audio version (roughly on par with The Stones "Angry").

The General has 2 million views on youtube (roughly on par with The Cure's Alone).

Perhaps has 6.7 million views on youtube (close to Metallica's Screaming Suicide).

That ignores the behemoths of Spotify and Apple Music....JUST youtube (the only platform where the numbers are easily available).

Again, I know T.Swift is pushing a billion+ streams on her tracks...but millions to potentially tens of millions of streams is hard to label "unsuccessful" in my mind.

Combine that with the fact that....while those songs likely didn't drive a ton of revenue....they definitely drove press to mention GnR.  And while you can say that "fans aren't going to see GnR on tour to hear their new music" til the cows come home....every one of those articles about singles mentioned GnR was on tour, and upcoming tour dates.  Thats free publicity for the tour....every time a new single is released. 

So, failure?  I don't know man.  It depends on the purpose and expectations of that material.  But millions of streams is definitely not in "failure" territory.  Because if it is....every act you mentioned above pretty much failed too.

[slash&axl]

I think there are a few factors in play here.  The main one is that the vast majority of rock fans don’t give a shit about new music from a band who’s been around as long as GNR have.  I don’t understand it, but it’s true, only diehard fans care if GNR or any veteran  rock band record another note for the rest of their careers.  And if they do record a new song, don’t even think about playing it live because that is when you will see a line for the bar or the  restrooms.  This is not GNR specific, it’s any rock band who’s been around for decades.   Did anybody care about Pearl Jam or Bon Jovi’s latest albums?  They both debuted at number 5 on the charts which’s sounds great but they both completely disappeared off the charts within 2 weeks. Diehard fans picked it up week one, and then nobody else noticed.  That latest Stones album was considered pretty good, what did it sell?  Does anyone going to a Stones show want to see Paint it Black dropped from the setlist for one of the new songs?  Can anyone who’s not in the Ten Club name one new Pearl Jam song from the last decade?   Oasis just sold out over 40 football stadiums around the world instantly. Now there is rumor of a new album.  How many people are going to want refunds on their tickets if this new album doesn’t happen?  Literally zero.

The new songs from GNR also had that stigma of being old songs.  My local radio station played the new ones but always introduced them as if they were left over tracks from years ago.  They played Perhaps like once or twice then went back to playing Jungle and  Sweet Child O Mine 5 times a day.   I also don’t think the “reworked “ label on the new songs hurt as much as other fans think, the response would have been the same if everything was written and recorded yesterday.


I do think if GNR put out a new record it would chart high and get some attention but it would disappear within the month and people would only want to hear the old stuff.  There is nothing a band like them can do to get any bigger at this point, they have reached as high as any band can go.   The same can be said about any of the bands I mentioned, and a bunch more.  I guess my point is it’s not that releasing singles didn’t work, it’s just once you reach a certain point, nothing is going to work.  

You say that but there was a decent buzz for the new AC/DC album and an even bigger one for Rolling Stones releasing a new album, now considering like those aforementioned bands Gnr are also in that small group of stadium rock acts in the world, there’s definitely a possibility of generating hype, one thing that Gnr doesn’t do though is repeat themselves musically and I know there’s conflict in the fandom about the direction of the music so that could hurt things in that respect but Perhaps and Hardskool were great rock singles while Absurd and The General I would consider to be more in the deep cuts/hidden gems on an album.

[Mysteron]

There's an article on it here https://www.heatonthestreet.com/singles-vs-albums/#:~:text=The%20overall%20market%20for%20singles,album%20or%20multi%2Dtrack%20release.

It seems that singles are the right strategy, but fans of rock music identify more with albums.

[rebelhipi]

Im quite oldschool but i think albums are still the way to go.
Look at Taylor Swift. Billie Eilish. All doing albums.
In the rock world theres The Rolling Stones, Metallica and The Cure recently that made albums that made quite an impact.
And GNRs main target audience are not exactly teenagers.


Nothing wrong with singles tho.

Id like to think theres an album coming with new songs and these 2021-2023 singles were a stopgap

Meh.

Yes, T. Swift, Billy Eilish, Beyonce, and, to a significant but lesser extent, Sabrina Carpenter sell albums (and a fuck ton of merch).  Pop princesses are really the only people to move units in the industry, though. 

But the acts you list? I guess you need to define "quite the impact". Because the impact was not on the sales charts.  We are not talking millions of units sold for those albums.  We're talking hundreds of thousands to, maybe, right around a million units.

Hard Skool has 4.4 million views on youtube, for the audio version (roughly on par with The Stones "Angry").

The General has 2 million views on youtube (roughly on par with The Cure's Alone).

Perhaps has 6.7 million views on youtube (close to Metallica's Screaming Suicide).

That ignores the behemoths of Spotify and Apple Music....JUST youtube (the only platform where the numbers are easily available).

Again, I know T.Swift is pushing a billion+ streams on her tracks...but millions to potentially tens of millions of streams is hard to label "unsuccessful" in my mind.

Combine that with the fact that....while those songs likely didn't drive a ton of revenue....they definitely drove press to mention GnR.  And while you can say that "fans aren't going to see GnR on tour to hear their new music" til the cows come home....every one of those articles about singles mentioned GnR was on tour, and upcoming tour dates.  Thats free publicity for the tour....every time a new single is released. 

So, failure?  I don't know man.  It depends on the purpose and expectations of that material.  But millions of streams is definitely not in "failure" territory.  Because if it is....every act you mentioned above pretty much failed too.

Good points.

By making an impact i mean that each of those albums went to number 1 on the charts in the UK and number 2 in the US Billboard 200 (The Cure went number 4)

Thats making an impact in my book. 

The GN'R singles did well in comparison, but still i think in 20 years more people will be listening and talking about Hackney Diamonds and 72 Seasons and about The General single. Cause Albums still work better in my opinion.

[rebelhipi]

Im quite oldschool but i think albums are still the way to go.
Look at Taylor Swift. Billie Eilish. All doing albums.
In the rock world theres The Rolling Stones, Metallica and The Cure recently that made albums that made quite an impact.
And GNRs main target audience are not exactly teenagers.


Nothing wrong with singles tho.

Id like to think theres an album coming with new songs and these 2021-2023 singles were a stopgap

Meh.

Yes, T. Swift, Billy Eilish, Beyonce, and, to a significant but lesser extent, Sabrina Carpenter sell albums (and a fuck ton of merch).  Pop princesses are really the only people to move units in the industry, though.  

But the acts you list? I guess you need to define "quite the impact". Because the impact was not on the sales charts.  We are not talking millions of units sold for those albums.  We're talking hundreds of thousands to, maybe, right around a million units.

Hard Skool has 4.4 million views on youtube, for the audio version (roughly on par with The Stones "Angry").

The General has 2 million views on youtube (roughly on par with The Cure's Alone).

Perhaps has 6.7 million views on youtube (close to Metallica's Screaming Suicide).

That ignores the behemoths of Spotify and Apple Music....JUST youtube (the only platform where the numbers are easily available).

Again, I know T.Swift is pushing a billion+ streams on her tracks...but millions to potentially tens of millions of streams is hard to label "unsuccessful" in my mind.

Combine that with the fact that....while those songs likely didn't drive a ton of revenue....they definitely drove press to mention GnR.  And while you can say that "fans aren't going to see GnR on tour to hear their new music" til the cows come home....every one of those articles about singles mentioned GnR was on tour, and upcoming tour dates.  Thats free publicity for the tour....every time a new single is released.  

So, failure?  I don't know man.  It depends on the purpose and expectations of that material.  But millions of streams is definitely not in "failure" territory.  Because if it is....every act you mentioned above pretty much failed too.

Good points.

By making an impact i mean that each of those albums went to number 1 on the charts in the UK and number 2 in the US Billboard 200 (The Cure went number 4)

Thats making an impact in my book.

The GN'R singles did well in comparison, but still i think in 20 years more people will be listening and talking about Hackney Diamonds and 72 Seasons than about The General single. Not because of the quality of the music, but because albums still work better in my opinion.

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

I agree with this. And I fully understand that in today's environment with streaming, albums are not what they used to be, savor for a few major pop acts.  That said, if GN'R were to release a new album, and the reccord company put a good amount of effort to market it, it would absolutely be a game changer for them.  Why?  Well, this would be the first album since Chinese Democracy (over 16 years now), and the first album of original material with Slash and Duff in over 33 years.  That's something remarkable, thus making a big difference in comparison to many other bands.  I'm not saying its going do numbers like it was 1992, but it would certainly work better than the slow drip singles release strategy.  As for whether fans would sit and enjoy them in concert, much like most other bands, it would be challenging, but still better than current as their would absolutely be more awareness of the singles release from the new album. 

[jarmo]

I agree with this. And I fully understand that in today's environment with streaming, albums are not what they used to be, savor for a few major pop acts.  That said, if GN'R were to release a new album, and the reccord company put a good amount of effort to market it, it would absolutely be a game changer for them.  Why?  Well, this would be the first album since Chinese Democracy (over 16 years now), and the first album of original material with Slash and Duff in over 33 years.  That's something remarkable, thus making a big difference in comparison to many other bands.  I'm not saying its going do numbers like it was 1992, but it would certainly work better than the slow drip singles release strategy.  As for whether fans would sit and enjoy them in concert, much like most other bands, it would be challenging, but still better than current as their would absolutely be more awareness of the singles release from the new album. 

Most of this is true.

But at the same time, the expectations can never be met. Why? Because we saw it with Chinese Democracy already (it took too long, it's not GN'R, it's not what we want etc,). Even Use Your Illusion to a certain degree (it wasn't Appetite, it was too much, it was this, it was that).


The only thing for certain is that it would show what the band is capable of.

Any other metric, sales, chart success, public perception etc. are kinda irrelevant. Yes, it's nice to sell a lot, have popular songs that a lot of people like, but those are bonuses.





/jarmo

[pilferk]

Good points.

By making an impact i mean that each of those albums went to number 1 on the charts in the UK and number 2 in the US Billboard 200 (The Cure went number 4)

Thats making an impact in my book.

The GN'R singles did well in comparison, but still i think in 20 years more people will be listening and talking about Hackney Diamonds and 72 Seasons than about The General single. Not because of the quality of the music, but because albums still work better in my opinion.

Yeah, I mean...we won't know for 20 years.

The rest is just opinion (as you mention).  Its not objective.

The streaming numbers are objective and comparable.  And show similar benchmarks to the main singles for each of the albums we're talking about.

I think sometimes our expectations are rooted in the 1990s, when album sales was the primary indicator of band success.  It's just not anymore.  Not unless you're a pop princess, and you're moving several million units...and even then, their success is touted more with a track having a billion streams vs selling a million albums.

Again, I would argue GnRs music had impact in the way we now measure impact.  And it got them press for their tour....and pushed the narrative that they have, and will release, new music.  We can debate what "new music" means here amongs the hardcore...but for the mainstream, those were new tracks from GnR.  And they got a ton of streams, so people were listening.  To me...that's an impact.

[pilferk]

I agree with this. And I fully understand that in today's environment with streaming, albums are not what they used to be, savor for a few major pop acts.  That said, if GN'R were to release a new album, and the reccord company put a good amount of effort to market it, it would absolutely be a game changer for them.  Why?  Well, this would be the first album since Chinese Democracy (over 16 years now), and the first album of original material with Slash and Duff in over 33 years.  That's something remarkable, thus making a big difference in comparison to many other bands.  I'm not saying its going do numbers like it was 1992, but it would certainly work better than the slow drip singles release strategy.  As for whether fans would sit and enjoy them in concert, much like most other bands, it would be challenging, but still better than current as their would absolutely be more awareness of the singles release from the new album. 

Maybe.  But the truth is, we don't know.  What we know is that the singles streamed well, in comparion to other acts....acts used as a benchmark for "making an impact" and being successful.

And the original topic was: Can we say releasing the singles didn't work.

I don't think we can say THAT.  I think, objectively, if you say the Stones, and Metallica, and The Cure were successful....then you have to say GnR's releases were too.  Because the numbers show they had similar success  to those bands. Yeah?  Which means they "worked" (depending on the definition of "worked"...because we don't, ultimatley, know what GnRs objectives were).

We can all discuss if they could have done something that would have been MORE successful, or that would have made MORE of an impact, I guess.  But given the climate, I'm still not convinced that albums make you more money or get you more press.  They might be more impactful in one short span?  But I think the singles work as multiple blasts of information and press, which might be more effective/impactful over a long tour.  Instead of a lot of eyeballs in one blast, you get more exposure to more eyeballs over a longer period of time.

One big splashy headline vs daily updates below the fold:  One gets attention, the other shapes opinions.

[kyrie]

I was recently talking to some rock fans who were very surprised to hear Gnr had released 4 singles since the reunion and in ‘General’ have noticed almost no buzz what so ever about what Gnr released and I’ve been wondering if these had come out as a 4 song EP would it have made more of an impact?
I guess the idea of people consuming the 4 songs as one piece of work, or even the placing of a new release single vs EP on streaming sites (or something new under the Gnr name in our local record stores if you even have one) also may have made people care more, this is all speculative obviously and it does seem that all 4 songs are mastered at different volumes so it’s possible that could be one of the reasons.
This kind of came to my attention also with the Schenker release where I was very happy to pick up my vinyl in the local shop.
Going beyond that ramble, would most people rather wait for the next batch or prefer the drips and drabs approach?

I guess it depends on what you think the goal of releasing those singes ad hoc was. If it was just to clear out the vault, and get out a few songs Axl had spent years on, with input from Slash and Duff, then I'd say it worked. Perhaps was generally well received, as was Hard Skool - which has more listens https://kworb.net/spotify/artist/3qm84nBOXUEQ2vnTfUTTFC_songs.html on Spotify than Right Next Door to Hell, Don't Damn Me, Pretty Tied Up, Shotgun Blues, Get in the Ring, The Garden, Garden of Eden, Locamotive etc. Which actually blows my mind. Garden of Eden had a video and was in decent rotation back in the day after all.

Now, if you're of the opinion that the band wanted headlines or a massive hit single, well, no, then that didn't happen. I'm not sure, given the way these played out, that that was the goal however. Seems like it was about just getting a few tracks out finally.