The General being released (perhaps B-side)

[jarmo]

Now, a leftover is a song which didn't make the cut.  We have 3 options:

1) the song was incomplete
2) the song didn't fit the album
3) the song didn't add anything to the album in terms of quality compared to the other songs, and it would have been just a +1 song, basically a filler.

(and then it could be a mix of these 3 points, right?)

Knowing well that the song were completed and fit the album (like we said) 15 years ago, what's the remaining point? Yep, right. I mean I'm listening to people calling the general a masterpiece like estranged, when the author himself put it on a b-side. Cmon now.

I kinda feel these songs suffer from lack of structure and to compensate that we have a lot of layers, basically vocal layers all coming from axl (not even from melissa or duff, for example).

You can like that, ofc, but it wasn't my point: I like perhaps for example, still consider it a very basic song. I think they can do a lot more, and after 7 years this is a little poor . In the same time frame they made AFD UYI LIES. I don't expect something like that ofc (i never expected anything tbh) but time goes bye guys...

Your definition clearly validates songs like Don't Cry, November Rain, You Could Be Mine etc. as being leftovers.

How do you decide whether or not any of these four "fit" the album? Just like they saved November Rain, Don't Cry etc. for later, there was no way of them putting every song on Chinese Democracy unless it was a double album. I get that you don't like the songs, but come on. Stop making up these silly reasons.




/jarmo

[ITARocker]

Your definition clearly validates songs like Don't Cry, November Rain, You Could Be Mine etc. as being leftovers.

How do you decide whether or not any of these four "fit" the album? Just like they saved November Rain, Don't Cry etc. for later, there was no way of them putting every song on Chinese Democracy unless it was a double album. I get that you don't like the songs, but come on. Stop making up these silly reasons.


/jarmo

They are...Could you REALLY imagine november rain or don't cry on AFD, a pure solid hard rock album? I don't, while I can imagine YCBM on that album. But don't be naive, a musician knows the value of his songs, these are not silly reasons, these are realistic reasons (but ofc like u said there is even the 4th option, like you already have a good amount of good songs on the album so you save them for the next one, but i don't think it's really the case of these cd2 songs). Plus i just said i like perhaps, and i can find good things in each of these songs. I said somewhere else that atlas is the only 1 song who is musically REALLY interesting, and i'm not linkin that to my personal taste, i could even hate that song for what it matters. You guys don't have the habit to think on multiple levels, i just don't like talking about things like they are black or white only. Just this. But I don't want to bore you any further, enjoy the songs  

[MrMojoRa]

LMAO, The General is a masterpiece.

Oh wait, I've just read 10 whiney bitchy complaints about it, how it sucks, mix is bad, it's a 5 as opposed to a 12 digital quality speaking.

Yep, still a masterpiece as it enters my ears dances around my brain then flows through all of my being.

One of the magnificent things about music is no one's opinion weighs more than another. Music, like beauty, lies in the ears and eyes of the beholder.

Here's my ranking:
1. The General
2. Perhaps
3. Absurd
4. Hard Skool

[kyrie]

I never said you would build an album around them though, did I? You called them leftovers from CD2, I pointed out those two tracks wouldn't have sounded out of place among UYI cuts.

And in your own words you agreed. "Sure they would have fit..."

Not every Guns song is going to be November Rain or even Civil War

100% correct. But i was answering to rebel about the "all quality" songs statement, which is not necessarily true.

Let's say this, you can like shit music or good music, you can't argue about that.

Now, a leftover is a song which didn't make the cut.  We have 3 options:

1) the song was incomplete
2) the song didn't fit the album
3) the song didn't add anything to the album in terms of quality compared to the other songs, and it would have been just a +1 song, basically a filler.

(and then it could be a mix of these 3 points, right?)

Knowing well that the song were completed and fit the album (like we said) 15 years ago, what's the remaining point? Yep, right. I mean I'm listening to people calling the general a masterpiece like estranged, when the author himself put it on a b-side. Cmon now.

I kinda feel these songs suffer from lack of structure and to compensate that we have a lot of layers, basically vocal layers all coming from axl (not even from melissa or duff, for example).

You can like that, ofc, but it wasn't my point: I like perhaps for example, still consider it a very basic song. I think they can do a lot more, and after 7 years this is a little poor . In the same time frame they made AFD UYI LIES. I don't expect something like that ofc (i never expected anything tbh) but time goes bye guys...

Option 4. I don't feel The General was ever likely to be a CD cut, and I suspect it was meant to be paired with Monsters all along, on the follow-up that never happened (even in 2023 they leaked together, and were registered together as far as writing credits, as "The General and Monsters"). That would have needed two album slots. So I'm guessing it was intentional to leave them off CD, if due to length, rather than your other three options.

As for being a basic song - I agree. It is, but again I think that might be intentional. And it doesn't mean it's not quality. Fans may have built The General into a monster in their minds, but it's clearly a more personal song, very raw, about horrific subject matter. I doubt Axl ever expected "Daddy don't I swear I won't" to be sung by fans nodding their heads while driving in their car. You'd have to somehow ask him but it might just come down to artistic choice.

The more I think about it also the more Fernando's comment about the general being a "monster" feels like a pointed comment about who "The General" is. But that's just a guess.

[Muerto]

Here's my ranking:
1. The General
2. Perhaps
3. Hard Skool
4. Absurd

When the time comes for them to release Monsters it will be my choice 1, I love it

[MrMojoRa]

Here's my ranking:
1. The General
2. Perhaps
3. Hard Skool
4. Absurd

When the time comes for them to release Monsters it will be my choice 1, I love it

I'd love to know who is responsible for leaving Monsters on the shelf. Best song since Better.

[jarmo]

They are...Could you REALLY imagine november rain or don't cry on AFD, a pure solid hard rock album? I don't, while I can imagine YCBM on that album. But don't be naive, a musician knows the value of his songs, these are not silly reasons, these are realistic reasons (but ofc like u said there is even the 4th option, like you already have a good amount of good songs on the album so you save them for the next one, but i don't think it's really the case of these cd2 songs). Plus i just said i like perhaps, and i can find good things in each of these songs. I said somewhere else that atlas is the only 1 song who is musically REALLY interesting, and i'm not linkin that to my personal taste, i could even hate that song for what it matters. You guys don't have the habit to think on multiple levels, i just don't like talking about things like they are black or white only. Just this. But I don't want to bore you any further, enjoy the songs  

Exactly, but you don't really see people referring to those songs as leftovers in order to discredit anyone who enjoys them.

Unlike what you're doing.




/jarmo

[GNRMTL]

They’re not leftovers, but they are songs from a different era. You can’t compare these songs to anything from illusions or appetite.  Chinese democracy as itself is an amazing album.,  what we’re hearing now are some of the material that wasn’t released from that era with some input from Duff and Slash.    I think people don’t express themselves properly when they’re saying this doesn’t sound like Guns N’ Roses but case in point look at the song angry from the Rolling Stones. That sounds like the stones and it’s a great song that will stand the test of time.  Perhaps is the most Guns N’ Roses sounding song released of the bunch thus far.   when we actually hear something that is written by this current band , things will sound different.   Personally, since they’re going into the vault, seemingly I wish they would just released a Polished version of just another Sunday..

[TheBaconman]

Why isn’t anyone including Shadow Of Your Love l, in any lists here?      Of all the material GNR have released since CD, I prefer it the best. 

[Steve McKagan]

Why isn’t anyone including Shadow Of Your Love l, in any lists here?      Of all the material GNR have released since CD, I prefer it the best. 

Because it has been released as a b-side twice before?

[sky dog]

There is a difference between b-sides and outtakes. These four songs were outtakes by definition from the Chinese sessions. These are all album worthy songs like Don’t Cry, November Rain and Back Off Bitch. B sides are songs you generally don’t put on albums. There is a difference and I am sure Monsters and Atlas and a bunch more fully fleshed out songs were intended for Chinese 2.  It didn’t work out so they are throwing us dogs some bones.

[shaundix]

I’ve never heard Monsters. What’s all the fuss about?

[Wooody]

I’ve never heard Monsters. What’s all the fuss about?

There's no fuss.... another demo that sounds like an idea more than a song

[thomas]

Here's my ranking:
1. The General
2. Perhaps
3. Hard Skool
4. Absurd

When the time comes for them to release Monsters it will be my choice 1, I love it

I'd love to know who is responsible for leaving Monsters on the shelf. Best song since Better.

i agree soul monster is good love the studio song but i love hear the demo i'm sure it a different version

[kyrie]

I’ve never heard Monsters. What’s all the fuss about?

I personally prefer it to The General. The bridge is nasty and I think that's why a lot of people think it's what Soul Monster became; Axl mentioned in one of the old online chats he sung it on Christmas Eve and the bridge was "Imo the meanest section of anything I've sung to date." The SESAC listing for The General is actually under "The General and Monsters" and it appears like they were meant to go together. Marco Beltrami's work can be heard in both tracks, which also kind of ties them together.

It's a catchier song that you can sing along to.

[PermissionToLand]

I’ve never heard Monsters. What’s all the fuss about?

I personally prefer it to The General. The bridge is nasty and I think that's why a lot of people think it's what Soul Monster became; Axl mentioned in one of the old online chats he sung it on Christmas Eve and the bridge was "Imo the meanest section of anything I've sung to date." The SESAC listing for The General is actually under "The General and Monsters" and it appears like they were meant to go together. Marco Beltrami's work can be heard in both tracks, which also kind of ties them together.

It's a catchier song that you can sing along to.

No question it's what Axl was talking about there. He talked about the verses having a Black Sabbath vibe and the bridge being mean as hell. Monsters fits that description perfectly. Song titles change over time, as we saw with Jackie Chan > Checkmate > Hard Skool and others.

[kyrie]

I’ve never heard Monsters. What’s all the fuss about?

I personally prefer it to The General. The bridge is nasty and I think that's why a lot of people think it's what Soul Monster became; Axl mentioned in one of the old online chats he sung it on Christmas Eve and the bridge was "Imo the meanest section of anything I've sung to date." The SESAC listing for The General is actually under "The General and Monsters" and it appears like they were meant to go together. Marco Beltrami's work can be heard in both tracks, which also kind of ties them together.

It's a catchier song that you can sing along to.

No question it's what Axl was talking about there. He talked about the verses having a Black Sabbath vibe and the bridge being mean as hell. Monsters fits that description perfectly. Song titles change over time, as we saw with Jackie Chan > Checkmate > Hard Skool and others.

True, I've kind of come around to it, but we won't know for sure til the band confirms. Though "checkmate" I don't believe was ever an official title. Allegedly it was someone being witty about having a leaked track. The clip was released as "checkmate" when they were accused of lying about it. At least that's the story I've heard.

I also really want to know what Me & My Elvis is with that in mind. Because I do like that instrumental a lot, and if it's not Soul Monster, it needs a better name than Me & My Elvis.

[jarmo]

Why isn’t anyone including Shadow Of Your Love l, in any lists here?      Of all the material GNR have released since CD, I prefer it the best. 

Because it has been released as a b-side twice before?

Exactly. Different versions were released officially already.




/jarmo

[kyrie]

For those who ordered the CD single I received shipping confirmation late on the 18th. Even with the time difference to Japan that's actually a day early.

[jarmo]

For those who ordered the CD single I received shipping confirmation late on the 18th. Even with the time difference to Japan that's actually a day early.

That's impossible, because.... Management. Delays. Everything is their fault etc etc.

 




/jarmo