Chinese democracy

[jarmo]

The steak would be over cooked! 😂

That's a different discussion. 


Everything's down to personal opinion. If you're creating something, until it's the way you want it to be, it's "underproduced", or unfinished.






/jarmo

[C0ma]

So going back to CD...  think that fact that so many hand touched these tracks from say 1997-2008 there were parts removed, parts added, players removed, players added, etc... it isn't always smooth... having said all that I was happy that I got it in 2008, and I am ecstatic I got Absurd and Harskool in 2021... With CD I just feel there is a version somewhere in all of those changes that was Axl's real vision and I think it got steamrolled by "the industry". I really love the fact that the surviving Beatles were able to remove the "wall of sound" from Let it Be and got back to the original intent of the songs, and would Axl's version of that...

I understand what you're saying, but I don't know if I agree that it somehow makes it "overproduced".

If you like your steak well done, and someone else likes theirs medium. Is yours overproduced?

Of course not.... 

/jarmo

YES... There is no valid opinion with steak that includes well done. Opinions can be wrong and well done steak is not just wrong it should be a crime.

Having said that... I think my very rambling point is "over produced" is a term that has been applied to this album that means different things to different people. You're steak analogy is probably the closest to what I'm trying to say. It's not that it's "overcooked", I think it's unnecessarily over seasoned. That doesn't mean it's inedible... BUT instead of a rub, a glaze, and a sauce... it would have shined on it's own with a just some salt, pepper, and a little butter (medium rare at most). I think Axl originally wanted salt pepper and butter, but then the label (or new members, or new producers) said well what about onion salt, and garlic powder... maybe some paprika... and on and on, etc...

[cineater]

I'm trying to remember when CD got announced that it was being released.  As I recall it wasn't very long between the media announcement and the release.  And then it was moved up from Tuesday to Sunday.  Behind the boards knew about 2 to 3 weeks in advance of the official announcement.  That's if I'm remembering correctly, 2008 was a long time ago.    Just thinking we are coming up on November and if history will repeat itself.

er, you folks stay away from my steak.  I'll cook it. 

[westcoast_junkie]

- the singer is the only one left
- the original replacement band that he recruited to play on it have mostly since been replaced again by the time of release
- the songs sound very little like what you know of the past work of the band
- it took the singer literally 10 years to get this all together

Well, none of theese factors are objective. I think option B is the least objective one.

My subjective opinion: Chinese Democracy is superb, and in 2010 I considered the line-up real Gn'R. Great band!

Really?  Let's go down the list.

- Only possible retort is to come back at me with Dizzy Reed.  I'd be as embarrassed hearing that as I'd hope you would be trying to run that up the flagpole.  C'mon, huh?

- By time of release : Buckethead - GONE.  Robin Finck - GONE.  Paul Tobias - GONE.  Josh Freese - GONE.  That's not the majority of the band?  Did you fail fractions as a lad?

- Not a one of these songs would fit on AFD.  Maybe 4 would fit on UYI (Street Of Dreams, Catcher In The Rye, IRS, This I Love).  4 out of 14. 

- Axl started this misadventure in 1998 and the album came out in 2008.  Few things more objective than raw numbers and math.

Well, what i meant was: None of these factors are objective in the sense of being factors of whether Chinese Democracy is a masterpiece or not. To consider who's in the line-up, original members and when the songs were written and stuff like that, don't have anything to say regarding the album being a masterpiece or not. Sound, production, lyrics, flow, rhymes etc., might be more objective, but still most subjective.