The Biden administration (was: The NEW 2020 Election Thread)

[PermissionToLand]

but the first victim, rosenbaum, died doing what he loved - chasing minors and assaulting them.

I love the open hypocrisy of crying about state lines being irrelevant, and then immediately following that with this irrelevant detail.

[cineater]

Uncle Ted chimes in:  https://www.facebook.com/SpiritWild/videos/885898638961064/

[jarmo]

yes, that is the point about "state lines". crossing state lines, when you live close to a state line, is common. there certainly are different laws in each state, but its not big deal traveling from one state to another. towns in NJ are considered suburbs of philly, despite being in different states. 

I live in Europe. We have cities which are neighbors that are in different countries.

Still, a border is a border.



So the question is that if someone had gone to DC last January to "protect the democracy", got attacked by Trump supporters and shot a couple of them, would that legally be allowed too?


The outrage against rioters smashing shops versus invading the Capitol is telling. One is horrible and the rioters deserve to die (some would say), the other is no biggie just true patriots doing their duty....





/jarmo

[sandman]

but the first victim, rosenbaum, died doing what he loved - chasing minors and assaulting them.

I love the open hypocrisy of crying about state lines being irrelevant, and then immediately following that with this irrelevant detail.

rosenbaum screamed the N-word over and over that night.

maybe Biden got rittenhouse and rosenbaum mixed up when he implied he was a white supremacist.

[sandman]

yes, that is the point about "state lines". crossing state lines, when you live close to a state line, is common. there certainly are different laws in each state, but its not big deal traveling from one state to another. towns in NJ are considered suburbs of philly, despite being in different states. 

So the question is that if someone had gone to DC last January to "protect the democracy", got attacked by Trump supporters and shot a couple of them, would that legally be allowed too?

/jarmo

Yes, completely legal. if someone attacks you and you feel there is chance of serious harm, you have the right to defend yourself. 

[jarmo]

I understand the concept of self defense....

But basically going into an area with unrest in what could be portrayed as looking for trouble, makes no difference?

I don't know the law to know where the line is drawn.

It's ok to take a life in the name of self defense? What's reasonable?





/jarmo

[sandman]

I understand the concept of self defense....

But basically going into an area with unrest in what could be portrayed as looking for trouble, makes no difference?

I don't know the law to know where the line is drawn.

It's ok to take a life in the name of self defense? What's reasonable?

/jarmo

Every situation is different. He was not instigating anything. He was chased by all 3 individuals. He ran away. He only shot them when he felt he had to. Clear self defense.

The law of self-defense in Wisconsin allows someone to use deadly force if they reasonably believe they are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. There is video that proves he was in danger. The prosecutors never should have brought this case to court. It was a slam dunk.

Luckily, there were independent journalists that filmed it so we know exactly what happened.

[jarmo]

Well, it's basically an example of turning up somewhere where you know there's a risk of violence, then claim you fear for your own life and kill someone. Or that's how it'll be looked upon.

We all know how people are. This is a dangerous path to be on.






/jarmo

[sandman]

Well, it's basically an example of turning up somewhere where you know there's a risk of violence, then claim you fear for your own life and kill someone. Or that's how it'll be looked upon.

We all know how people are. This is a dangerous path to be on.






/jarmo

So when he ran away and then got knocked to the ground, kicked in the head by one person, and then hit with a skateboard by a second person, and that person grabbed his gun and tried to steal it, you don’t think he was scared for his life??

Can we at least agree that when the 3rd victim pointed a gun at his head, he was scared for his life?

How about we all agree that if you show up to destroy property and scream “shoot me (n-word)” over and over, you should not then chase a person with an AR-15 and try to steal his gun?

I mean i’d like to think we could all agree not to show up and burn down other people’s property, but i know ithats a far right wing idea on this forum.

[jarmo]

I didn't comment on his case because I didn't study it.

I'm saying, this kind of decision could lead to other unfortunate actions by others.

When something becomes the new normal, then others will copy it.


The whole yelling at other people seems to be the new normal these days. You can't tell another person in a calm way why you disagree? You need to be yelling? Once again, not talking about this case, just people in general....

Yelling on TV, yelling at waiters, yelling at teachers, yelling at flight attendants etc etc etc.




Once again, you think everything is black and white. You have all the understanding in the world for the killer in this case, but zero understanding for the so called rioters. Most people don't destroy buildings for no reason... Most of them have a reason that's not based on a conspiracy theory... Unlike your side who tried a coup based on lies..... Is it ok to burn down buildings because you're angry? No, not really. Is there a reason to be angry? Maybe sometimes. Is it ok to try to kill people and overthrow an election because your guy lost? You tell me.




/jarmo

[PermissionToLand]

rosenbaum screamed the N-word over and over that night.

maybe Biden got rittenhouse and rosenbaum mixed up when he implied he was a white supremacist.

You sound offended. You should work on that. Not a good way to go through life.

[PermissionToLand]

Sandie will play their games, but the fact that always remains is that Rittenhouse escalated the use of force continuum by brining a gun into a powderkeg so that he could fabricate a self defense argument in order to play out his admitted fantasy of shooting protestors.

[PermissionToLand]

I didn't comment on his case because I didn't study it.

I'm saying, this kind of decision could lead to other unfortunate actions by others.

When something becomes the new normal, then others will copy it.

Bingo. Vigilante justice is the breakdown of Law and Order. That is what the right is defending here, anarchy.

[jarmo]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know your gun laws in the USA.

But, is it legal for a 17 year old to openly walk on public streets carrying an assault rifle?



It's not something I see happening a lot. Maybe on news footage from war zones.... Usually the ones who carry that kind of weapons where I'm from would be something like a SWAT team or the army.

I guess that's not an issue in certain places though? Or it that a normal hunting rifle? Once again, hunting rifles that I'm used to look a bit different....





/jarmo

[sandman]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know your gun laws in the USA.

But, is it legal for a 17 year old to openly walk on public streets carrying an assault rifle?



It's not something I see happening a lot. Maybe on news footage from war zones.... Usually the ones who carry that kind of weapons where I'm from would be something like a SWAT team or the army.

I guess that's not an issue in certain places though? Or it that a normal hunting rifle? Once again, hunting rifles that I'm used to look a bit different....





/jarmo

An AR-15 is not an assault rifle. Many people not familiar with guns mistakenly assume so.

Yes, completely legal. WI is a hunting state.

Kenosha was a war zone.

A white man shot and killed 2 white men who chased him and tried to steal his gun.

You keep bringing up the capital riot for some reason. The only person that died that day was a woman who walked into the capital. No one rioted over her death. No one went on trial for her death. Not many cared about it.

[sandman]

Sandie will play their games, but the fact that always remains is that Rittenhouse escalated the use of force continuum by brining a gun into a powderkeg so that he could fabricate a self defense argument in order to play out his admitted fantasy of shooting protestors.

So Rittenhouse is a genius. Thats a take i was not expecting here.

[jarmo]

An AR-15 is not an assault rifle. Many people not familiar with guns mistakenly assume so.

It looks more like a weapon you'd see the army use than a deer hunter. Once again, just an opinion of someone who isn't a gun fanatic.

You didn't answer the core of the question. It's legal for a 17 year old to parade around town with this kind of weapon? In the US, in general.

Kenosha was a war zone.

A white man shot and killed 2 white men who chased him and tried to steal his gun.

A white man who had decided to go there. With a weapon.

The other question is, there's nothing between no force and deadly force?

You keep bringing up the capital riot for some reason. The only person that died that day was a woman who walked into the capital. No one rioted over her death. No one went on trial for her death. Not many cared about it.

Which is "worse", destroying property because you're upset the police shot someone or trying to overturn a democratic election because your guy lost so you destroy government property?


It's an interesting thing. The right are more concerned about people destroying property than themselves trying to destroy democracy.





/jarmo

[sandman]

An AR-15 is not an assault rifle. Many people not familiar with guns mistakenly assume so.

It looks more like a weapon you'd see the army use than a deer hunter. Once again, just an opinion of someone who isn't a gun fanatic.

You didn't answer the core of the question. It's legal for a 17 year old to parade around town with this kind of weapon? In the US, in general.

/jarmo

You must have missed where i typed “yes, completely legal”.

In Wisconsin, it is 100% legal. Laws vary by state.

[jarmo]

So, it's completely normal practice?

You're not old enough to vote or drink, but carrying a rifle openly in public is no big deal?

Fascinating...



I also must've missed the part where you explain to me how there seems to be nothing between no force and lethal force.

Kenosha was a war zone.

Sorry, missed this earlier.

So basically you're admitting the guy went into a risky situation, then used the self defense reason for his actions.


That's just slightly odd.





/jarmo

[PermissionToLand]

So Rittenhouse is a genius. Thats a take i was not expecting here.

You've inadvertently spoken to your own intelligence here. This is a tried and true tactic of right wing terrorists going back decades.

An AR-15 is not an assault rifle. Many people not familiar with guns mistakenly assume so.

Define an "assault rifle".