The Biden administration (was: The NEW 2020 Election Thread)

[cineater]

And my mom of course is against this. She thinks it'll make it so the Republicans can never win again, instead of it being of their own doing.

Technically, she's not wrong. Just like the system prevents Libertarians from winning the presidency because their support base is about 1.2% of the population.

Democracy is tough when the majority of the country disagrees with you, but that's the only fair way to do it. Sorry, no affirmative action for conservatives.

Funny how they hate it when it is aimed at helping other minority groups. Yep, want to win? Come up with ideas and policies that reflect the way most people think. We can't stay in the past just because a small portion of the population wants us to. You either evolve or get left behind. Same with the people who just love the EC or want it to have it for state races, no, find a better fucking candidate. Rank choice voting would be another really good idea to implement.

I think I was reading a legit source.  But only 69% of registered voters voted.  That's close to one third who didn't have a say.  Plus all those folks out there not registered.  And if I did the math right, the difference between reps and dems was only a one percent difference.  So that's hardly able to claim most people.

But sometimes it's not right to go just with the majority.  Take for example Blacks.  They only represent 12% of the population.  Do we ignore their concerns because they are the minority group?

I agree wit Biden on this point.  All sides need to come together.  It can be done but we have to stop this crap of them and we and start talking about us.  Okay, we didn't start off too well with the stimulus package but we don't have to stay that way. 

[tim_m]

And my mom of course is against this. She thinks it'll make it so the Republicans can never win again, instead of it being of their own doing.

Technically, she's not wrong. Just like the system prevents Libertarians from winning the presidency because their support base is about 1.2% of the population.

Democracy is tough when the majority of the country disagrees with you, but that's the only fair way to do it. Sorry, no affirmative action for conservatives.

Funny how they hate it when it is aimed at helping other minority groups. Yep, want to win? Come up with ideas and policies that reflect the way most people think. We can't stay in the past just because a small portion of the population wants us to. You either evolve or get left behind. Same with the people who just love the EC or want it to have it for state races, no, find a better fucking candidate. Rank choice voting would be another really good idea to implement.

I think I was reading a legit source.  But only 69% of registered voters voted.  That's close to one third who didn't have a say.  Plus all those folks out there not registered.  And if I did the math right, the difference between reps and dems was only a one percent difference.  So that's hardly able to claim most people.

But sometimes it's not right to go just with the majority.  Take for example Blacks.  They only represent 12% of the population.  Do we ignore their concerns because they are the minority group?

I agree wit Biden on this point.  All sides need to come together.  It can be done but we have to stop this crap of them and we and start talking about us.  Okay, we didn't start off too well with the stimulus package but we don't have to stay that way. 

It is the Independents that sway it one way or the other and most of them lean left. Yes and who do you think all these laws the states like Georgia and Iowa are trying to keep down? It isn't the white voters. Why should i want to work with someone who is deliberately trying to make it harder for that 13% of the population from voting. They close polling stations in minority communities, The laws in these two states significantly reduce early voting,  the Georgia bill makes it so only those 75 and over can vote by mail. The one in Iowa closes the polls early on election day. In what reality does that make any sense?

[pilferk]

I'm not saying Repub leadership didn't push that and aren't continuing to push it.  In my mind, that's a total lie.  I don't believe dems got all those states to cooperate together in fraud.

Yeah, but "in your mind" isn't really the relevant metric, here.  In the minds of a large segment of the Republican party is.

Republicans can get elected.  Don't know the exact figures but I think we saw a divide between the two sides not, an over whelming majority voting dem.  I also think you have to factor in what a nut case people saw Donald Trump.  I think a lot of people including Rep voted against that man, not for dem policies.  I think you had more voters because of crazy man Trump and because it was easier to vote.

Again, Republican leadership, caught on hot mics, disagree with you.  Of course, Repubs can win elections in deep red states...but that's becoming a smaller and smaller number of states.  What prominent Repubs mean is that, in more "purple" states, they can't win.  Because in states like Georgia and Texas and Arizona and others, the demographic is becoming more diverse.  But those demographics are typically underrepresented for a whole host of reasons surrounding voting.  Making it easier for them to vote means.....Repubs lose much more often, and are much less competitive. That's what they've said, when they mistakenly say or get caught saying the quiet parts out loud.

Repubs counter that by implementing stricter voting rights laws, which they sell to their voters by telling them The Big Lie  (aka election corruption).

The new, more restrictive, voting right laws you're seeing spring up in places like Georgia or Arizona aren't about Trump. They're about trying to ensure Repubs can win...by limiting the vote.  It's simple, and it's completely obvious to anyone looking.  It's been their modus operandi for 25 years or so.

That's how his mother feels and it's based on false information.  I think we need to approach his mother with, no there wasn't fraud and no the dems aren't cheating, these are the facts.  Rep aren't down for the count and out of the game.  They just lost this round. We don't want his mother just to give up.  Everyone needs to speak up and contribute.  She needs to continue to be involved.

I think tim is perhaps the best representative for how his mother feels, on what topics.  Not some rando on the internet who has never met her.  If YOU feel the way you're talking about, that's fine.  I think you're doing tim, and his mother, a disservice by assuming you know better.

And again, you're running off the track.  tim represented his mothers feelings toward Biden's voting rights executive action.  Not "the big lie".  You're ascribing thoughts and feelings to her on a different topic, and not taking tims recollection at face value.  

My opinion, the economy is going to be in big trouble going forward with the covid crisis hanging over us for years.  The last time people will remember a booming economy a Rep was in office.  Keep that crazy man and few others off center stage and out of it, game on.  I'm hoping there is a big push towards going green before the Reps are back full swing because I think they would kill it.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic, but...I'll bite.

I think you're wrong.  Once again, the Repub inherited a booming economy, watched growth stagnate (no appreciable improvement in growth rates under Trump even before than pandemic) and they left the economy in shambles (yes, largely due to the pandemic).  By the time Biden leaves office, I'd bet dollars to donuts we're back on a path of economic growth.

We'll still be litigating Jan 6th (at least in the court of public opinion) in 2022, and maybe 2024, as well.

I think you're giving Repubs a head start they don't actually have.  But, in truth, none of that matters.  Note: I DID NOT SAY Repubs can't win elections if more people vote.  I said prominent Repubs believe it, and have said it.  That's all that matters here...because they base Republican party actions based on those beliefs.

[pilferk]

Funny how they hate it when it is aimed at helping other minority groups. Yep, want to win? Come up with ideas and policies that reflect the way most people think. We can't stay in the past just because a small portion of the population wants us to. You either evolve or get left behind. Same with the people who just love the EC or want it to have it for state races, no, find a better fucking candidate. Rank choice voting would be another really good idea to implement.

Exactly this.  If you want to be nationally competitive with higher voter participation....and you feel you can't...perhaps it's the party's platform that's the issue.  Not more people voting.

[pilferk]

I agree wit Biden on this point.  All sides need to come together.  It can be done but we have to stop this crap of them and we and start talking about us.  Okay, we didn't start off too well with the stimulus package but we don't have to stay that way. 

Tell that to Republicans.

Because Dems have tried since the Obama era (and further back, really) to do exactly that.  The healthcare bill, for example, was Obama trying to compromise with Repubs..who REFUSED to engage in the process.

Thats been the Repub strategy when not in power: Obstruct. Obstruct, and obstruct some more.  They're not good faith negotiators.  You saw it again in the stimulus bill.  Mitch said the quiet part out loud again: We're going to oppose this bill no matter what is in it.

Repub voters need to "convince" their reps to engage in the process, and not just work to "own the libs" and obstruct progress.

The Dems have proven, over and  over, they're willing to work with Repubs.  Schumer entertained a dozen Repub amendments to the stimulus bill (a few of which actually passed)...something Mitch has never and would never do.

Short answer: Repubs first, at this point.

[jarmo]

Don't forget to thank all the Republicans for the stimulus bill!

Like that one guy who voted against it, and then tells his state (Miss) restaurants about them getting money....

Amazing.



/jarmo

[cineater]

And my mom of course is against this. She thinks it'll make it so the Republicans can never win again, instead of it being of their own doing.

Technically, she's not wrong. Just like the system prevents Libertarians from winning the presidency because their support base is about 1.2% of the population.

Democracy is tough when the majority of the country disagrees with you, but that's the only fair way to do it. Sorry, no affirmative action for conservatives.

Funny how they hate it when it is aimed at helping other minority groups. Yep, want to win? Come up with ideas and policies that reflect the way most people think. We can't stay in the past just because a small portion of the population wants us to. You either evolve or get left behind. Same with the people who just love the EC or want it to have it for state races, no, find a better fucking candidate. Rank choice voting would be another really good idea to implement.

I think I was reading a legit source.  But only 69% of registered voters voted.  That's close to one third who didn't have a say.  Plus all those folks out there not registered.  And if I did the math right, the difference between reps and dems was only a one percent difference.  So that's hardly able to claim most people.

But sometimes it's not right to go just with the majority.  Take for example Blacks.  They only represent 12% of the population.  Do we ignore their concerns because they are the minority group?

I agree wit Biden on this point.  All sides need to come together.  It can be done but we have to stop this crap of them and we and start talking about us.  Okay, we didn't start off too well with the stimulus package but we don't have to stay that way.  

It is the Independents that sway it one way or the other and most of them lean left. Yes and who do you think all these laws the states like Georgia and Iowa are trying to keep down? It isn't the white voters. Why should i want to work with someone who is deliberately trying to make it harder for that 13% of the population from voting. They close polling stations in minority communities, The laws in these two states significantly reduce early voting,  the Georgia bill makes it so only those 75 and over can vote by mail. The one in Iowa closes the polls early on election day. In what reality does that make any sense?

Why do you not want to work with them?  Yeah, there are people I'd rather not have to deal with and some folks I'd like to just beat the fuck out of.    But that doesn't change them or solve the problem.  You don't work with them nothing changes or they keep coming back with a different angle on the problem.  I'd rather not talk politics with the die hard republican next door and for a long time I just avoided it.  He likes to cloud up the whole situation throwing in all kinds of shit.  But when we talk about specific things, we find common ground and can agree on things.

Famous trick here, in low income, high minority areas, they wait in long lines to vote.  Out here in white suburbia, I walk right in and my former employer gave me time off to vote.  There should not be all these obstacles for people to vote.  I go with all of us are one step away from being in some kind of minority group, if were not already in a few.  

[tim_m]

That is a direct result of Republican policies. Those areas have fewer polling locations for a variety of reasons.

[PermissionToLand]

Funny how they hate it when it is aimed at helping other minority groups. Yep, want to win? Come up with ideas and policies that reflect the way most people think. We can't stay in the past just because a small portion of the population wants us to. You either evolve or get left behind. Same with the people who just love the EC or want it to have it for state races, no, find a better fucking candidate. Rank choice voting would be another really good idea to implement.

They hate taking personal responsibility for how we've held back African Americans. Unlike them, conservatives have not been historically discriminated against and disenfranchised, they have been the discriminators and disenfranchisers as proven by the courts striking down their racist gerrymandering in North Carolina:

Circuit Court: North Carolina Law Targeted African-Americans “With Surgical Precision”

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/07/circuit-court-north-carolina-law-targeted-african-americans-surgical-precision/

I brought this up once and a conservative had the gall to suggest the voting rights act was "discriminating" against states with a history of discrimination against blacks. Wrap your head around that twisted sociopathic take.

[PermissionToLand]

But sometimes it's not right to go just with the majority.  Take for example Blacks.  They only represent 12% of the population.  Do we ignore their concerns because they are the minority group?
 

Blacks aren't trying to prevent conservatives from voting, that's the difference. You're confusing the will of the majority with tyranny of the majority. In reality, what we have is tyranny of the minority, which is the worst option there is.

[cineater]

That is a direct result of Republican policies. Those areas have fewer polling locations for a variety of reasons.

Er, that's actually one of the democratic strong holds in the state, St Louis City and County.  They have been for a while.  The middle class, white folks don't have that problem in those two counties.  That line is always black people whenever they show it on the news.

[cineater]

But sometimes it's not right to go just with the majority.  Take for example Blacks.  They only represent 12% of the population.  Do we ignore their concerns because they are the minority group?
 

Blacks aren't trying to prevent conservatives from voting, that's the difference. You're confusing the will of the majority with tyranny of the majority. In reality, what we have is tyranny of the minority, which is the worst option there is.

Is it tyranny or something else like just didn't know?  You have your extremist in every group but is it possible most people just don't know the plight of others or the scope of the problem?  I had no clue about living in poverty until I started working in it.  Had no clue about the plight of all these people trying to come over the Mexican border.  I'm sitting here thinking help them, let them in.  Isn't that how this country got rolling, people running away from mistreatment in other countries?  Yeah, I saw it on the news and wondered but now it's time to get on with my busy life.  Maybe I could foster one of those kids but I'm kind of old and don't speak Spanish, there must be better choices then me.  You know, it's a bigger problem then I can address.  I have no resources and don't know the whole scope of the problem.

So I missed Biden tonight.  What did he say?

[tim_m]

But sometimes it's not right to go just with the majority.  Take for example Blacks.  They only represent 12% of the population.  Do we ignore their concerns because they are the minority group?
 

Blacks aren't trying to prevent conservatives from voting, that's the difference. You're confusing the will of the majority with tyranny of the majority. In reality, what we have is tyranny of the minority, which is the worst option there is.

Is it tyranny or something else like just didn't know?  You have your extremist in every group but is it possible most people just don't know the plight of others or the scope of the problem?  I had no clue about living in poverty until I started working in it.  Had no clue about the plight of all these people trying to come over the Mexican border.  I'm sitting here thinking help them, let them in.  Isn't that how this country got rolling, people running away from mistreatment in other countries?  Yeah, I saw it on the news and wondered but now it's time to get on with my busy life.  Maybe I could foster one of those kids but I'm kind of old and don't speak Spanish, there must be better choices then me.  You know, it's a bigger problem then I can address.  I have no resources and don't know the whole scope of the problem.

So I missed Biden tonight.  What did he say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYBatFW-BP4 Youtube it lol

[tim_m]

That is a direct result of Republican policies. Those areas have fewer polling locations for a variety of reasons.

Er, that's actually one of the democratic strong holds in the state, St Louis City and County.  They have been for a while.  The middle class, white folks don't have that problem in those two counties.  That line is always black people whenever they show it on the news.

Yeah but the laws that cause these issues are done at the state level.

[PermissionToLand]

Blacks aren't trying to prevent conservatives from voting, that's the difference. You're confusing the will of the majority with tyranny of the majority. In reality, what we have is tyranny of the minority, which is the worst option there is.

Is it tyranny or something else like just didn't know?  You have your extremist in every group but is it possible most people just don't know the plight of others or the scope of the problem?  I had no clue about living in poverty until I started working in it.  Had no clue about the plight of all these people trying to come over the Mexican border.  I'm sitting here thinking help them, let them in.  Isn't that how this country got rolling, people running away from mistreatment in other countries?  Yeah, I saw it on the news and wondered but now it's time to get on with my busy life.  Maybe I could foster one of those kids but I'm kind of old and don't speak Spanish, there must be better choices then me.  You know, it's a bigger problem then I can address.  I have no resources and don't know the whole scope of the problem.

So I missed Biden tonight.  What did he say?

I am talking about what the founding fathers deemed "tyranny of the majority", which is when the majority has a stranglehold on power and can strip the rights of the minority. Right now, what we have is even worse; a minority of Americans (rural/conservatives) holding power against the will of the majority, and using it to disenfranchise the democratic rights of the majority by enacting corrupt and racist voting laws.

This isn't about differences of opinions, this is about a minority trying to violate the rights of the majority. Period.

[cineater]

That is a direct result of Republican policies. Those areas have fewer polling locations for a variety of reasons.

Er, that's actually one of the democratic strong holds in the state, St Louis City and County.  They have been for a while.  The middle class, white folks don't have that problem in those two counties.  That line is always black people whenever they show it on the news.

Yeah but the laws that cause these issues are done at the state level.

The counties set up the polling places and it seems like the polls that have problems with equipment all seem to be in the poor areas too.  I know the difference between the pens used for voting in the more influential area of that county were real pens.  What I got in my county was a cheap disposable pen that I wasn't sure had enough ink to get me through the ballot.    No idea what the poor areas in that county got.

But you're talking about the id required or having to have a mailing address to get the voter id card set by the state.  I don't hear many complaints about that but those voter id cards are wide open for fraud.  It's just a post card.  I don't know why anybody would want to but those can be stolen out of mailboxes.  Is there something else the state sets besides the day and times to vote?

[cineater]

Blacks aren't trying to prevent conservatives from voting, that's the difference. You're confusing the will of the majority with tyranny of the majority. In reality, what we have is tyranny of the minority, which is the worst option there is.

Is it tyranny or something else like just didn't know?  You have your extremist in every group but is it possible most people just don't know the plight of others or the scope of the problem?  I had no clue about living in poverty until I started working in it.  Had no clue about the plight of all these people trying to come over the Mexican border.  I'm sitting here thinking help them, let them in.  Isn't that how this country got rolling, people running away from mistreatment in other countries?  Yeah, I saw it on the news and wondered but now it's time to get on with my busy life.  Maybe I could foster one of those kids but I'm kind of old and don't speak Spanish, there must be better choices then me.  You know, it's a bigger problem then I can address.  I have no resources and don't know the whole scope of the problem.

So I missed Biden tonight.  What did he say?

I am talking about what the founding fathers deemed "tyranny of the majority", which is when the majority has a stranglehold on power and can strip the rights of the minority. Right now, what we have is even worse; a minority of Americans (rural/conservatives) holding power against the will of the majority, and using it to disenfranchise the democratic rights of the majority by enacting corrupt and racist voting laws.

This isn't about differences of opinions, this is about a minority trying to violate the rights of the majority. Period.

Yeah you lost me there.  Where do all those people meet to come up with their evil plans?    You really get wrapped up in broad sweeping theories looking to blame somebody.  Is it possible people just don't realize the problems other folks have getting to vote?  Is it possible they really feel like they are protecting voting from fraud?  You know I lean more towards there's not groups out there attempting to commit fraud at the polling place.  I mean it's possible but I don't think it happens all that much.  But you have those folks who are always on the look out for that.  There's probably some history to that belief that has been passed along through generations but I'm in a big city area and I just don't see it.

[cineater]

I'm stimulating the economy because if it hadn't been for the check coming, no way I would have paid the outrageous price for this.



Having a good time now!

[cineater]

Blacks aren't trying to prevent conservatives from voting, that's the difference. You're confusing the will of the majority with tyranny of the majority. In reality, what we have is tyranny of the minority, which is the worst option there is.

Is it tyranny or something else like just didn't know?  You have your extremist in every group but is it possible most people just don't know the plight of others or the scope of the problem?  I had no clue about living in poverty until I started working in it.  Had no clue about the plight of all these people trying to come over the Mexican border.  I'm sitting here thinking help them, let them in.  Isn't that how this country got rolling, people running away from mistreatment in other countries?  Yeah, I saw it on the news and wondered but now it's time to get on with my busy life.  Maybe I could foster one of those kids but I'm kind of old and don't speak Spanish, there must be better choices then me.  You know, it's a bigger problem then I can address.  I have no resources and don't know the whole scope of the problem.

So I missed Biden tonight.  What did he say?

I am talking about what the founding fathers deemed "tyranny of the majority", which is when the majority has a stranglehold on power and can strip the rights of the minority. Right now, what we have is even worse; a minority of Americans (rural/conservatives) holding power against the will of the majority, and using it to disenfranchise the democratic rights of the majority by enacting corrupt and racist voting laws.

This isn't about differences of opinions, this is about a minority trying to violate the rights of the majority. Period.

Yeah you lost me there.  Where do all those people meet to come up with their evil plans?    You really get wrapped up in broad sweeping theories looking to blame somebody.  Is it possible people just don't realize the problems other folks have getting to vote?  Is it possible they really feel like they are protecting voting from fraud?  You know I lean more towards there's not groups out there attempting to commit fraud at the polling place.  I mean it's possible but I don't think it happens all that much.  But you have those folks who are always on the look out for that.  There's probably some history to that belief that has been passed along through generations but I'm in a big city area and I just don't see it.

Hang on, are we bring our founding fathers into this?  Great men of their times and they had wisdom to bring into our times.  But they were all white men and excluded women, minorities and I believe you had to be a property owner at that time to vote.  Property including slaves.

[PermissionToLand]

Yeah you lost me there.  Where do all those people meet to come up with their evil plans?    You really get wrapped up in broad sweeping theories looking to blame somebody.

I find it amazing that you don't understand what I'm saying (things you should have learned in grade school history and civics classes) but feel like you can critique what you don't understand regardless.

Imagine calling accountability "blaming". Gee, those police officers sure do get wrapped up in playing blame games! So, the store got robbed. Does it really matter who did it? We need to come together with this nice ski-masked gentleman and work with him to solve this problem of robberies we're dealing with, as a community!  

I'm really trying to be diplomatic here but you are making it incredibly difficult with your assumptions, shoving people into boxes and stubbornness.

It's not an accusation of conspiracy to point out that people with like interests cooperate to achieve goals. None of this is even hidden; everything I am saying can be verified with publicly available information. Just because you personally are not aware of something does not make it an unsubstantiated conspiracy. You are being incredibly dismissive and demeaning to me by acting this way.

Is it possible people just don't realize the problems other folks have getting to vote? Is it possible they really feel like they are protecting voting from fraud?

As I've already explained, I am not talking about individuals who tend to vote republican. I was literally talking about the electoral college. I said nothing even remotely approaching anything about individual republicans. Why do you keep doing this?

There's probably some history to that belief that has been passed along through generations but I'm in a big city area and I just don't see it.

Yeah, there is historical precedent for it. Do you know what that precedent is? Does the term "poll tax" ring a bell? How about "literacy test"?  The exact same interests have been fighting against the expansion of voting rights for the same reasons all along. You can trace the current GOP's voting restrictions directly back to their efforts to fight against voting rights for women and black people. If you aren't aware of those ties, nobody is holding that against you, but to act like anyone who actually knows their American history is just hysterical and conspiratorial is offensive. Frankly, you are far too cocksure and stubborn in your opinions and judgements of me for how little you seem to know about any of these subjects.