The Biden administration (was: The NEW 2020 Election Thread)

[cineater]

You view what happen at the capitol as a coup.  And you believe a survey that said do you support Trump is the same thing as supporting a radical group that got into the capitol building.  Yeah you lumped all those protesters who didn't go into the building and left when it got out of hand into the same group.  And all those Republican's who stayed home into that same group.

You seem to be the one putting me into boxes, frankly.

FBI director Cristopher Wray has called the events of Jan 6th "domestic terrorism" and a "siege". The Department of Justice has called it a "violent insurrection". The Joint Chiefs of Staff called it an "insurrection". The Attorney General of NY called it an "attempted coup". Words like "coup" have nothing to do with what I think, this just just stating objective facts. Are you seriously taking issue with that or suggesting it is partisan to state facts backed up by every intelligence agency in the country?

I also cited the fact that 45% of republicans explicitly supported the insurrection in that same poll. If you don't find it damning that 78% also still supported the president who fomented that coup, that's fine, but I disagree. But I never said they were "the same thing". Why are you putting words in my mouth?

I didn't say anything at all about the people who did not enter the capitol. And I certainly did not say anything about republicans who stayed home being responsible. Again, why are you putting words in my mouth? If you want to know what I think, you can just ask. I think anyone who walked past the first police barrier to be broken, should at the least be prosecuted for trespassing. Those who went inside the building are getting more serious punishments, as they should. Anyone who did not cross a police line did nothing wrong.

I never said anything to suggest that even the 45% of republicans who explicitly supported the siege should face consequences. What I said was that nearly half of the party supporting an overthrow of democracy should seriously concern you with the growing threat of anti-democratic elements in the GOP.

Trump was recommended for impeachment for inciting the riot at the capitol but not impeached.  Trump says there was voter fraud but that was not proven.  You probably disagree with the first decision and agree with the second.

Your analogy does not work because impeachment is not a criminal process; it's a political process. The courts that threw out Trump's voter fraud claims are not run by politicians of the defendant's own party, like the senate which acquitted him. This isn't the "gotcha" argument you seem to think it is.

You probably feel all Republicans feel the opposite from you on those two points.  Pretty narrow point of view.

I don't assume anything. You are assuming what I believe right now. Do you seriously not see that? I never said anything, not a single word, about "all republicans". I am speaking about trends within the party. Mitt Romney still exists. But if you think he is anything but the exception to the rule, you aren't paying attention. You seem really stubbornly attached to the idea that the republican party cannot possibly be a radical party, despite all evidence being to the contrary. I never said everyone in it is equally radical. But you cannot abdicate personal responsibility for the policies you vote for. You're trying to make this about individuals when I am talking about the literal platform of the party, what they self-proclaim to stand for.

And when you say your policies ARE, in big, demanding, forceful letters, for everyone, how imbedded is your thinking that you think you know what's best for everyone?  Any room to hear the other side and come up with a different solution?

Capitalizing words for emphasis makes me "demanding" and closed-minded? Seriously?

I don't expect everybody to vote yes on issues but I would feel a lot better if members of the parties voted based on what they thought.  You see some of each party going against what their bigger party supported.  I think when you get elected to an office you represent everybody not just the party you got into office by.

... yeah, I agree. You've read a lot into my comments that isn't there if you have put me into this "closed-minded" box and assumed a bunch of my beliefs to the point where you even assume I am against the trustee model of representation or bipartisanship.

Maybe it's the way you are saying it but what I'm reading from you that's how you are coming across.  If others aren't saying that to you, maybe it's just me and I wouldn't take it to heart. 

I'm looking for people to come together, not take sides, lighten their stance and realize there is more solutions to a problem if we work on it together.  I feel our best defense against radicals is to stand together and not let them divide us.  Do I think the Republican party is radicals?  No  Do I think the Democrats are trying to turn us into a socialist government?  No  I think they are all people concerned about issues that affect them, their neighbors and future generations.

[jarmo]

Biden is trying to expand voting rights.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-alabama-selma-voting-rights-elections-eec9cde9f9713183b6c8d1d7123cbbae





/jarmo

[cineater]

Biden is trying to expand voting rights.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-alabama-selma-voting-rights-elections-eec9cde9f9713183b6c8d1d7123cbbae





/jarmo

If I can do my banking and do my taxes online, I should be able to vote from my home computer!  Make it easier for us.

[PermissionToLand]

Maybe it's the way you are saying it but what I'm reading from you that's how you are coming across.  If others aren't saying that to you, maybe it's just me and I wouldn't take it to heart. 

I'm looking for people to come together, not take sides, lighten their stance and realize there is more solutions to a problem if we work on it together.  I feel our best defense against radicals is to stand together and not let them divide us.  Do I think the Republican party is radicals?  No  Do I think the Democrats are trying to turn us into a socialist government?  No  I think they are all people concerned about issues that affect them, their neighbors and future generations.

Let me ask you something; do you think it's theoretically possible that extreme ideas could be held by a significant chunk of Americans (say 30%), and do you think that an institution with near duopolistic power could be extreme in its policy proposals? I get the feeling from a lot of people who are independent or politically disinterested that they assume the appearance of broad support, or simply being a massive institution that has existed for over 150 years, means that thing cannot be radical. And to be clear; I get it. To most Americans, the two party system is as normal as the sun rising in the east, and to suggest that one of the two major parties could be extremist, would be like suggesting that left-handed people are evil; it's just dismissed out of hand.

But the facts of the matter don't lie; the polarization is asymmetrical. I studied political science at university and I can tell you this is such a widely accepted fact that it's taught even in low level courses.







https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/yes-polarization-is-asymmetric-and-conservatives-are-worse/373044/

https://grist.org/politics/asymmetrical-polarization-the-lefts-gone-left-but-the-rights-gone-nuts/

[cineater]

Maybe it's the way you are saying it but what I'm reading from you that's how you are coming across.  If others aren't saying that to you, maybe it's just me and I wouldn't take it to heart. 

I'm looking for people to come together, not take sides, lighten their stance and realize there is more solutions to a problem if we work on it together.  I feel our best defense against radicals is to stand together and not let them divide us.  Do I think the Republican party is radicals?  No  Do I think the Democrats are trying to turn us into a socialist government?  No  I think they are all people concerned about issues that affect them, their neighbors and future generations.

Let me ask you something; do you think it's theoretically possible that extreme ideas could be held by a significant chunk of Americans (say 30%), and do you think that an institution with near duopolistic power could be extreme in its policy proposals? I get the feeling from a lot of people who are independent or politically disinterested that they assume the appearance of broad support, or simply being a massive institution that has existed for over 150 years, means that thing cannot be radical. And to be clear; I get it. To most Americans, the two party system is as normal as the sun rising in the east, and to suggest that one of the two major parties could be extremist, would be like suggesting that left-handed people are evil; it's just dismissed out of hand.

But the facts of the matter don't lie; the polarization is asymmetrical. I studied political science at university and I can tell you this is such a widely accepted fact that it's taught even in low level courses.







https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/yes-polarization-is-asymmetric-and-conservatives-are-worse/373044/

https://grist.org/politics/asymmetrical-polarization-the-lefts-gone-left-but-the-rights-gone-nuts/

Thanks but I'm not really interested.

[tim_m]

Biden is trying to expand voting rights.

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-alabama-selma-voting-rights-elections-eec9cde9f9713183b6c8d1d7123cbbae





/jarmo

And my mom of course is against this. She thinks it'll make it so the Republicans can never win again, instead of it being of their own doing.

[cineater]

They did a fact check on the statement 91% of the new stimulus package isn't covid related.  Okay, sort of right, if you only address covid directly.  The majority is for the stimulus checks and extending unemployment.  They came up with 16% is not related to the current covid crisis.

I hope with making it easier to vote more people participate.

[tim_m]

They did a fact check on the statement 91% of the new stimulus package isn't covid related.  Okay, sort of right, if you only address covid directly.  The majority is for the stimulus checks and extending unemployment.  They came up with 16% is not related to the current covid crisis.

I hope with making it easier to vote more people participate.

Not if the GOP get their way, you see the shit they just pulled in Georgia and Iowa.

[jemin]

Full disclosure in advance: I work for the United States Postal Service.  With that out of the way.

How would we be saving cost on shipping?  The workers would still have to be paid to deliver.  We are only a quasi government entity.  By that I mean we are not funded by the government.  We are self funded through the products that we sell.

UPS and Fed Ex did not get their shit together.  They dumped everything on USPS and the stuff that they stopped accepting had to be delivered by someone so the USPS took on that as well.  We were extremely overburdened before Christmas because of Covid and once Christmas hit it made things worse.  The month leading up to Christmas has always been traditionally a very heavy load for us but this year took it to the extreme and I think the processing plants just did what they could to get stuff in and out.  It should always follow FIFO (First In/First Out) but it seems that as fast as the trailers full of parcels were showing up that they had lines waiting to get unloaded with a log jam in the trailer yards.  Plus with the Covid leave there were multiple plants and offices that were so short staffed that many were working 12-15 hours a day just to get people their mail and packages. 

That's crazy, I had no idea it was that bad. You probably don't hear this enough, but thank you for your service. It's an underappreciated sacrifice to work for the government (or quasi-controlled subsidiaries), especially due to the issues you and cineater pointed out.

I appreciate that, thanks!

[pilferk]

And my mom of course is against this. She thinks it'll make it so the Republicans can never win again, instead of it being of their own doing.

When your position is "If more people vote, "we" can't win"...it's time to reexamine your positions,  your party, and your commitment to democracy.

[cineater]

And my mom of course is against this. She thinks it'll make it so the Republicans can never win again, instead of it being of their own doing.

When your position is "If more people vote, "we" can't win"...it's time to reexamine your positions,  your party, and your commitment to democracy.

That's not their position.  They think the dems threw out legit votes and put in fraudulent ballots.  That the voting machines were rigged. 

It's okay for people to question the whole process.  It brings transparency and trouble shoots it.  You address people's concerns and they come on board.  She would probably agree it's a pain in the ass to go vote in person on one specific day.

[pilferk]

And my mom of course is against this. She thinks it'll make it so the Republicans can never win again, instead of it being of their own doing.

When your position is "If more people vote, "we" can't win"...it's time to reexamine your positions,  your party, and your commitment to democracy.

That's not their position.  They think the dems threw out legit votes and put in fraudulent ballots.  That the voting machines were rigged. 

It's okay for people to question the whole process.  It brings transparency and trouble shoots it.  You address people's concerns and they come on board.  She would probably agree it's a pain in the ass to go vote in person on one specific day.

But none of that is true.  And the only reason they think it is because Repub leadership has pushed it.  And the reason they push it? Because they know the more people who vote, and can vote, the lesser their chances of winning. 

Repubs have been caught on hot mics saying exactly that. Repubs like Mitch.

Tim laid out his mothers position right there, in his post.  I'm not sure why you would second guess it.

[cineater]

And my mom of course is against this. She thinks it'll make it so the Republicans can never win again, instead of it being of their own doing.

When your position is "If more people vote, "we" can't win"...it's time to reexamine your positions,  your party, and your commitment to democracy.

That's not their position.  They think the dems threw out legit votes and put in fraudulent ballots.  That the voting machines were rigged. 

It's okay for people to question the whole process.  It brings transparency and trouble shoots it.  You address people's concerns and they come on board.  She would probably agree it's a pain in the ass to go vote in person on one specific day.

But none of that is true.  And the only reason they think it is because Repub leadership has pushed it.  And the reason they push it? Because they know the more people who vote, and can vote, the lesser their chances of winning. 

Repubs have been caught on hot mics saying exactly that. Repubs like Mitch.

Tim laid out his mothers position right there, in his post.  I'm not sure why you would second guess it.

I'm not saying Repub leadership didn't push that and aren't continuing to push it.  In my mind, that's a total lie.  I don't believe dems got all those states to cooperate together in fraud.

Republicans can get elected.  Don't know the exact figures but I think we saw a divide between the two sides not, an over whelming majority voting dem.  I also think you have to factor in what a nut case people saw Donald Trump.  I think a lot of people including Rep voted against that man, not for dem policies.  I think you had more voters because of crazy man Trump and because it was easier to vote.

That's how his mother feels and it's based on false information.  I think we need to approach his mother with, no there wasn't fraud and no the dems aren't cheating, these are the facts.  Rep aren't down for the count and out of the game.  They just lost this round. We don't want his mother just to give up.  Everyone needs to speak up and contribute.  She needs to continue to be involved.

My opinion, the economy is going to be in big trouble going forward with the covid crisis hanging over us for years.  The last time people will remember a booming economy a Rep was in office.  Keep that crazy man and few others off center stage and out of it, game on.  I'm hoping there is a big push towards going green before the Reps are back full swing because I think they would kill it.

[tim_m]

And my mom of course is against this. She thinks it'll make it so the Republicans can never win again, instead of it being of their own doing.

When your position is "If more people vote, "we" can't win"...it's time to reexamine your positions,  your party, and your commitment to democracy.

Her thinking is it takes too much power away from the states, but when they're doing shit like they are in Georgia and Iowa they kind of deserve it, but i've read what is in the bill. It doesn't tell the states how to conduct their elections or what not. The biggest state lever provisions has to do with voter registration.

[tim_m]

Notice how they claim fraud from Dominion voting systems but not when they were used on 70 million machines in 2016 and 2019? If any of this shit were true, wouldn't we have used the 70 million machines in 2016 to defeat Trump?

[cineater]

Notice how they claim fraud from Dominion voting systems but not when they were used on 70 million machines in 2016 and 2019? If any of this shit were true, wouldn't we have used the 70 million machines in 2016 to defeat Trump?

Who thought he would win?    Maybe since he "knows" the machines can be rigged we should go back and see if that's how he won. 

[tim_m]

Notice how they claim fraud from Dominion voting systems but not when they were used on 70 million machines in 2016 and 2019? If any of this shit were true, wouldn't we have used the 70 million machines in 2016 to defeat Trump?

Who thought he would win?    Maybe since he "knows" the machines can be rigged we should go back and see if that's how he won. 

Pretty much every Trump supporter thinks this.

[PermissionToLand]

Thanks but I'm not really interested.

Yeah, that seems to be the problem.

[PermissionToLand]

And my mom of course is against this. She thinks it'll make it so the Republicans can never win again, instead of it being of their own doing.

Technically, she's not wrong. Just like the system prevents Libertarians from winning the presidency because their support base is about 1.2% of the population.

Democracy is tough when the majority of the country disagrees with you, but that's the only fair way to do it. Sorry, no affirmative action for conservatives.

[tim_m]

And my mom of course is against this. She thinks it'll make it so the Republicans can never win again, instead of it being of their own doing.

Technically, she's not wrong. Just like the system prevents Libertarians from winning the presidency because their support base is about 1.2% of the population.

Democracy is tough when the majority of the country disagrees with you, but that's the only fair way to do it. Sorry, no affirmative action for conservatives.

Funny how they hate it when it is aimed at helping other minority groups. Yep, want to win? Come up with ideas and policies that reflect the way most people think. We can't stay in the past just because a small portion of the population wants us to. You either evolve or get left behind. Same with the people who just love the EC or want it to have it for state races, no, find a better fucking candidate. Rank choice voting would be another really good idea to implement.