The Biden administration (was: The NEW 2020 Election Thread)

[cineater]

I love all the talk of going green but I have a question.  What is the environmental impact?  I know these new light bulbs need special disposal but I have no idea where to take them.  They end up in the trash.  I know the going green uses batteries.  Is there an issue with them and disposal?  I trust science but they only know what they know today.  Science got us where we are today.  You can't deny science is short sighted.  There's many examples of they didn't see the long term effects of their discoveries.  We rushed into the industrial revolution and didn't see the pollution coming.

Well, as a car guy I can tell you what it means for arguably the most technologically complex object the average American owns. Studies have shown that the life cycle emissions of an EV or hybrid are lower than that of an internal combustion engine, and that includes emissions from production as well as use and disposal. Batteries can last just as long as a gas engine, if not longer. You have Tesla taxis with over 300k miles on them in CA right now. And when the batteries give out, they can be recycled.

Which is, in fact, a huge industry waiting to be unleashed if we only held corporations liable to recycle all of the waste their products create. We could create millions of jobs at factories where old products are disassembled and sorted into their recyclable materials.

Not only that, you eliminate many of the environmentally disastrous fluids like motor oil that a gas engine has.

As far as your light bulbs go, your local transfer station should have guidelines if you check their website. You can also bring them to Home Depot just like you bring old motor oil to AutoZone.

I have an uncle in California who made a fortune recycling the military metal from WWII.  There's money in junk.

Those batteries can be recycled?  Completely down to everything?  Agree there are more environmentally friendly cars out there but there is an environmental impact on everything we do.  We need to look to the future for the cons when we look at the pros in the present.  Who would have thought a great thing like plastic would end up with a problem of water bottles in the oceans of the world?  It's like the light blub, most people are going to throw those in the trash as it's such a little thing and you have to go out of your way to recycle it.  Good idea but creating problems elsewhere.

Not saying we shouldn't go in the green direction but let's approach it differently from 'we'll deal with any problems that arise at a later time'.  We should be asking our politicians and scientist what those considerations are.  We can't see everything but we know where it failed in the past.  There are dead birds at the bottom of those big wind generators.  Totally preventable if there had been consideration to the environmental impact.

Sorry for the toot.  Love our planet.  We need to stop fucking it up.

[pilferk]

I'm not saying we shouldn't look at and try to solve some of the more urgent issues with going green.  My point is: You can't stall progress based on unknowable "what ifs".  We have to go with the science we know, solve the problems of right now, and take solace in the fact that science DOES eventually catch up and offer solutions...even if some people decide those solutions are "fake news" and that the problems science points out are "hoaxes".

Here's an idea I think our government should find a way to adopt.  We have always been avid gardeners. This year we just about doubled the size of our garden, just in case.  We grew probably 60% to 70% of our produce this summer..  And were it not for some unfortunate infestations of our green pepper plants...that would have been close to 100%.  We grew corn, beans, squash, tomatoes, cabbage, kale, jalapenos, cucumbers, carrots, radishes, broccoli, basil, cilantro, rosemary, thyme, and sage. Basically a salad, salsa (less the onions...that's next year along with more potatoes), and sauce garden.  We are on about a quarter of an acre and we're a family of 5.   AND we were giving away jalapenos, cucumbers, and tomatoes to our neighbors (still are).

I'd love to see our government give families a tax break/write off for growing their own food.  It has good environmental impact (especially if you grow organic), it promotes food security, it moves some of the demand off our food supply chain, and once you've paid for the initial setup, it's incredibly economical.  I would love to see similar tax breaks for those who set up or buy shares in an urban garden or community garden.  Maybe even CSAs....because at least then you are supporting local community farming (and environmental greenspace).

[tim_m]

Polls show that people think Harris won the debate, but narrowly.   I'd say that's big a win for Biden, overall. Pence didn't sway anyone last night, and failed, mostly, to put words and positions into the Dems mouths.  Harris probably didn't either...but I'm not sure you have to when you're in the position the Biden ticket is right now.  

Commission says next debate will change to virtual town hall to protect everyone from Trump....and Trump says he won't participate.  So we'll see what happens there.  If Trump REALLY doesn't participate....I mean, that's almost a concession.  Of course, at this point, as Pence said...they're not really concentrating on the election.  They're going to the courts so they can be declared the winners that way.

CNN had some undecided voters and when asked if they decided 4 said they're now voting Biden, 3 for Trump. So after 2 debates Biden has swayed more undecideds in Florida and Arizona then Trump. Trump has to win those states or his next term will be in prison.

[tim_m]

I'm not saying we shouldn't look at and try to solve some of the more urgent issues with going green.  My point is: You can't stall progress based on unknowable "what ifs".  We have to go with the science we know, solve the problems of right now, and take solace in the fact that science DOES eventually catch up and offer solutions...even if some people decide those solutions are "fake news" and that the problems science points out are "hoaxes".

Here's an idea I think our government should find a way to adopt.  We have always been avid gardeners. This year we just about doubled the size of our garden, just in case.  We grew probably 60% to 70% of our produce this summer..  And were it not for some unfortunate infestations of our green pepper plants...that would have been close to 100%.  We grew corn, beans, squash, tomatoes, cabbage, kale, jalapenos, cucumbers, carrots, radishes, broccoli, basil, cilantro, rosemary, thyme, and sage. Basically a salad, salsa (less the onions...that's next year along with more potatoes), and sauce garden.  We are on about a quarter of an acre and we're a family of 5.   AND we were giving away jalapenos, cucumbers, and tomatoes to our neighbors (still are).

I'd love to see our government give families a tax break/write off for growing their own food.  It has good environmental impact (especially if you grow organic), it promotes food security, it moves some of the demand off our food supply chain, and once you've paid for the initial setup, it's incredibly economical.  I would love to see similar tax breaks for those who set up or buy shares in an urban garden or community garden.  Maybe even CSAs....because at least then you are supporting local community farming (and environmental greenspace).

That's a great idea, another thing that needs to go are factory farms. Purple mocked AOC for this but she's absolutely right.

[pilferk]

Polls show that people think Harris won the debate, but narrowly.   I'd say that's big a win for Biden, overall. Pence didn't sway anyone last night, and failed, mostly, to put words and positions into the Dems mouths.  Harris probably didn't either...but I'm not sure you have to when you're in the position the Biden ticket is right now.  

Commission says next debate will change to virtual town hall to protect everyone from Trump....and Trump says he won't participate.  So we'll see what happens there.  If Trump REALLY doesn't participate....I mean, that's almost a concession.  Of course, at this point, as Pence said...they're not really concentrating on the election.  They're going to the courts so they can be declared the winners that way.

CNN had some undecided voters and when asked if they decided 4 said they're now voting Biden, 3 for Trump. So after 2 debates Biden has swayed more undecideds in Florida and Arizona then Trump. Trump has to win those states or his next term will be in prison.

Ignore Florida (it's a dem pipe dream). It lets the Dems down EVERY election. And yeah, I know what the polls say right now.

All Biden needs to do is keep what Hillary had...and get Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. That is all he needs. That's 46 electoral votes. That puts Biden at 273 and Trump at 258.  

I want Biden to win as many state as he can to put this out of the courts. I think he'll take AZ. I think he has a shot in Iowa, North Carolina, and Ohio.  

But at the end of the day...PA, MI, and WI.  And Biden is 5 points or more ahead in each of those states.

That being said: If he takes Florida with an early call......that's akin to dunking on Trump.  It's over. WAY over. Should be way beyond the courts over.

[tim_m]

I don't know, historically Florida polls are very accurate. So we will see, if Biden wins it though is over. Trump will not be president if he loses Florida or Ohio period. I think Biden has a legit shot in NC, OH, AZ, IA.

[tim_m]

There will be no second debate, Trump refused to do virtual. So instead there will be a town hall with Biden on the 15th.

[PermissionToLand]

Those batteries can be recycled?  Completely down to everything?  Agree there are more environmentally friendly cars out there but there is an environmental impact on everything we do.  We need to look to the future for the cons when we look at the pros in the present.  Who would have thought a great thing like plastic would end up with a problem of water bottles in the oceans of the world?  It's like the light blub, most people are going to throw those in the trash as it's such a little thing and you have to go out of your way to recycle it.  Good idea but creating problems elsewhere.

Not saying we shouldn't go in the green direction but let's approach it differently from 'we'll deal with any problems that arise at a later time'.  We should be asking our politicians and scientist what those considerations are.  We can't see everything but we know where it failed in the past.  There are dead birds at the bottom of those big wind generators.  Totally preventable if there had been consideration to the environmental impact.

Sorry for the toot.  Love our planet.  We need to stop fucking it up.

Depends on the battery type. Lead-acid batteries are 96% recyclable. Lithium Ion are deemed unusable with 80% range left, so they can be repurposed to power the grid. That's where most end up today. (In the waste management hierarchy, re-use is considered preferable to recycling, in order to extract maximum economic value and minimize environmental impacts.) It looks like the recyclability for them is anywhere from 25-96%, depending on the process. The average is 50%. Right now there's less infrastructure to recycle Lithium Ion batteries, but that's a matter of there not being any incentive to do so because, again, the externalities of their production are shouldered by society instead of the manufacturers. Resolve that, and manufacturers will find it more logical to mine old batteries for cobalt instead of mining the Congo. But even as is, you have lots of companies working on solutions to make Li Ion batteries more recyclable:

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2019/03/25/innovation-boosts-lithium-ion-battery-recycling-rate-to-over-80/#:~:text=The%20current%20recycling%20rate%20for,materials%20in%20lithium%2Dion%20batteries.

We have to see the problem of plastic waste as a problem of accountability though, not a problem with plastic as a technology. The problem with plastic as a technology is more that it requires oil to produce in the first place.

You shouldn't have to go out of your way to recycle any more than it's going out of your way to not throw your Burger King bag into the ocean or in the middle of a public park. We could probably have recycling bins be more ubiquitous in public places, but it's not any harder to drop a bottle in your home recycling bin than your trash.

But I will say, leaving it to the average Joe to sort out recycling by whatever symbol number it has printed on it, does not help the cause. I've tried to find out how to recycle certain objects like spray bottles and toothpaste tubes, and the solutions involved time-intensive disassembly and cleaning.

We learn from the market system that the end user wants their experience to be as simple and hassle-free as possible. All recycling should just go together and get sorted by people who we've created jobs for. But of course, without a mandate that corporations pay for their waste, that would require investment by the taxpayers.

BTW, household cats kill exponentially more birds than wind powered generators.

[PermissionToLand]

All Biden needs to do is keep what Hillary had...and get Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin.   

I want Biden to win as many state as he can to put this out of the courts.

But at the end of the day...PA, MI, and WI.

Here's the problem; of those three states, only PA doesn't have a Republican controlled state supreme court. To say I am very concerned would be an understatement.

[PermissionToLand]

There will be no second debate, Trump refused to do virtual. So instead there will be a town hall with Biden on the 15th.

Hiding from your opponent after getting whooped in a debate is a winning strategy, I hear! 

So this either means he's afraid to debate Biden because he knows he lost the first one and the polls have shown it.

OR

He's sick enough that he can't pull it off. Which is likely, too, seeing as the 2nd week is often the worst of it.

[tim_m]

Now Trump is blaming the gold star family for giving him covid-19. Oh and now his quack doctor is saying he's safe to return to going out in public Saturday.

[pilferk]

JFC, Pelosi.

Yes to a 25th amendment commission to write and actually codify how the 25th should work. Create a modern policy that actually makes everything make sense. The amendment is a mess and has long been debated as to how it should work. This mess certainly needs a more intuitive process created for the cabinet and, indeed, for the other sections as well (perhaps defining that when a president is under anesthesia, or any potentially hallucinagenic drug, then he must pass the reigns to the VP until awake, alert, and oriented as defined by his physicians). 

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

NO to Congress trying to insert itself into that process, NO to her tying it to Trump, NO to her doing it 20+ days from an election.

Are you TRYING to overstep and piss people off so they won't vote for your party?

Why is it Dems seem so hell bent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Concentrate on the SC seat being filled.  Leave the 25th amendment shit til after the election, and only then to just lay out a clear process.

I'm pretty sure that "Designating a body" in the amendment didn't mean forming a congressional committee and designating it.  It meant, I'm pretty sure, that if the executive branch changed the operation of a cabinet, the amendment would allow congress to empower whatever new body took it's place.

Biden should step in and tell her to shut it down. It's a stupid distraction that is just going to cost Dems votes.

[tim_m]

JFC, Pelosi.

Yes to a 25th amendment commission to write and actually codify how the 25th should work. Create a modern policy that actually makes everything make sense. The amendment is a mess and has long been debated as to how it should work. This mess certainly needs a more intuitive process created for the cabinet and, indeed, for the other sections as well (perhaps defining that when a president is under anesthesia, or any potentially hallucinagenic drug, then he must pass the reigns to the VP until awake, alert, and oriented as defined by his physicians). 

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

NO to Congress trying to insert itself into that process, NO to her tying it to Trump, NO to her doing it 20+ days from an election.

Are you TRYING to overstep and piss people off so they won't vote for your party?

Why is it Dems seem so hell bent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Concentrate on the SC seat being filled.  Leave the 25th amendment shit til after the election, and only then to just lay out a clear process.

I'm pretty sure that "Designating a body" in the amendment didn't mean forming a congressional committee and designating it.  It meant, I'm pretty sure, that if the executive branch changed the operation of a cabinet, the amendment would allow congress to empower whatever new body took it's place.

Biden should step in and tell her to shut it down. It's a stupid distraction that is just going to cost Dems votes.

Hard to question her motives when he goes on a tangent like this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-10-09/trump-unhinged-california-water-fires%3f_amp=true

[pilferk]

JFC, Pelosi.

Yes to a 25th amendment commission to write and actually codify how the 25th should work. Create a modern policy that actually makes everything make sense. The amendment is a mess and has long been debated as to how it should work. This mess certainly needs a more intuitive process created for the cabinet and, indeed, for the other sections as well (perhaps defining that when a president is under anesthesia, or any potentially hallucinagenic drug, then he must pass the reigns to the VP until awake, alert, and oriented as defined by his physicians). 

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

NO to Congress trying to insert itself into that process, NO to her tying it to Trump, NO to her doing it 20+ days from an election.

Are you TRYING to overstep and piss people off so they won't vote for your party?

Why is it Dems seem so hell bent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Concentrate on the SC seat being filled.  Leave the 25th amendment shit til after the election, and only then to just lay out a clear process.

I'm pretty sure that "Designating a body" in the amendment didn't mean forming a congressional committee and designating it.  It meant, I'm pretty sure, that if the executive branch changed the operation of a cabinet, the amendment would allow congress to empower whatever new body took it's place.

Biden should step in and tell her to shut it down. It's a stupid distraction that is just going to cost Dems votes.

Hard to question her motives when he goes on a tangent like this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-10-09/trump-unhinged-california-water-fires%3f_amp=true

In 3 weeks, there is an election. Til then, let Trump dig his own hole, and let his cabinet and campaign try to reign him in.

In 4 weeks, idgaf what she does, tbh. Right now its about Biden/Haris getting over the finish line. Every action she/they take needs to be strategically weighed against that goal.

Thats not fueled by partisanship. Its because, above all else, getting Trump out of office is the best thing for this country.

[cineater]

Those batteries can be recycled?  Completely down to everything?  Agree there are more environmentally friendly cars out there but there is an environmental impact on everything we do.  We need to look to the future for the cons when we look at the pros in the present.  Who would have thought a great thing like plastic would end up with a problem of water bottles in the oceans of the world?  It's like the light blub, most people are going to throw those in the trash as it's such a little thing and you have to go out of your way to recycle it.  Good idea but creating problems elsewhere.

Not saying we shouldn't go in the green direction but let's approach it differently from 'we'll deal with any problems that arise at a later time'.  We should be asking our politicians and scientist what those considerations are.  We can't see everything but we know where it failed in the past.  There are dead birds at the bottom of those big wind generators.  Totally preventable if there had been consideration to the environmental impact.

Sorry for the toot.  Love our planet.  We need to stop fucking it up.

Depends on the battery type. Lead-acid batteries are 96% recyclable. Lithium Ion are deemed unusable with 80% range left, so they can be repurposed to power the grid. That's where most end up today. (In the waste management hierarchy, re-use is considered preferable to recycling, in order to extract maximum economic value and minimize environmental impacts.) It looks like the recyclability for them is anywhere from 25-96%, depending on the process. The average is 50%. Right now there's less infrastructure to recycle Lithium Ion batteries, but that's a matter of there not being any incentive to do so because, again, the externalities of their production are shouldered by society instead of the manufacturers. Resolve that, and manufacturers will find it more logical to mine old batteries for cobalt instead of mining the Congo. But even as is, you have lots of companies working on solutions to make Li Ion batteries more recyclable:

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2019/03/25/innovation-boosts-lithium-ion-battery-recycling-rate-to-over-80/#:~:text=The%20current%20recycling%20rate%20for,materials%20in%20lithium%2Dion%20batteries.

We have to see the problem of plastic waste as a problem of accountability though, not a problem with plastic as a technology. The problem with plastic as a technology is more that it requires oil to produce in the first place.

You shouldn't have to go out of your way to recycle any more than it's going out of your way to not throw your Burger King bag into the ocean or in the middle of a public park. We could probably have recycling bins be more ubiquitous in public places, but it's not any harder to drop a bottle in your home recycling bin than your trash.

But I will say, leaving it to the average Joe to sort out recycling by whatever symbol number it has printed on it, does not help the cause. I've tried to find out how to recycle certain objects like spray bottles and toothpaste tubes, and the solutions involved time-intensive disassembly and cleaning.

We learn from the market system that the end user wants their experience to be as simple and hassle-free as possible. All recycling should just go together and get sorted by people who we've created jobs for. But of course, without a mandate that corporations pay for their waste, that would require investment by the taxpayers.

BTW, household cats kill exponentially more birds than wind powered generators.

Hey cats are the circle of life.  That is nature's way.    They found painting just one of those blades gives the birds a clue to the danger.  In the future they may not blend in so well and it could be the new designer palette.

Any stock market thoughts?  I'm getting if Biden wins, move to safer investments, it's going to drop and take some time to recover as his plans go into play.  I just got back in the black.  Don't know if I want to wait out another slow recovery.

[tim_m]

As opposed to the yo yo we have going now every time the president says something stupid?

[cineater]

As opposed to the yo yo we have going now every time the president says something stupid?

The yoyo is based on whether or not the market thinks Trump will win.  The day after he won the election that market went up and it did well until the covid crisis.  Dropped the day he got sick and right back up when he left the hospital.  The market likes the guy.  Business didn't do well last quarter.  It was the faith in Trump the market had that got us back in the black.

That's my small little group's thinking.  Consult your financial advisor and place your bets.     I'm guessing we'll see a lot of shuffling right before the election.  Your players in the market will sell the day after if Trump wins as the market will go up and if Biden wins your people who buy low will be out there buying as the market will drop.  Those of us in the retirement investments will either be relieved or groaning about our bet.  It should be an interesting day for the market.

Er, that little group, most of us feel bad that asshole is making us money. 

[PermissionToLand]

Any stock market thoughts?  I'm getting if Biden wins, move to safer investments, it's going to drop and take some time to recover as his plans go into play.  I just got back in the black.  Don't know if I want to wait out another slow recovery.

I don't play, and if I did, it would only be an index fund. Anyone who gives you a prediction is full of shit. Ask a conservative and they'll say Biden=crash and Trump=bull market. Ask a progressive and they'll say the opposite. Either one is just trying to get your vote by way of scare tactics. The stock market really isn't terribly influenced by the president anyway, barring some radical changes being made.

Take from this what you may; wall street is backing Biden: https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/business/trump-biden-wall-street-campaign-donations/index.html

That said, the longer we keep this game of ever-increasing stock prices going, the more hollow our economy becomes, as value is generated less and less from actual productivity, and more from just shifting money around. There has to be liquidity in the consumer base, or else you're just heading for another crash. They're already leveraging the shit out of subprime auto loans just like they did houses back in 2007. Regardless of who is in the white house, that bubble will burst eventually, but luckily won't be as disastrous as in 2008 because people don't have as much tied up in their car as they do their home.

[tim_m]

As opposed to the yo yo we have going now every time the president says something stupid?

The yoyo is based on whether or not the market thinks Trump will win.  The day after he won the election that market went up and it did well until the covid crisis.  Dropped the day he got sick and right back up when he left the hospital.  The market likes the guy.  Business didn't do well last quarter.  It was the faith in Trump the market had that got us back in the black.

That's my small little group's thinking.  Consult your financial advisor and place your bets.     I'm guessing we'll see a lot of shuffling right before the election.  Your players in the market will sell the day after if Trump wins as the market will go up and if Biden wins your people who buy low will be out there buying as the market will drop.  Those of us in the retirement investments will either be relieved or groaning about our bet.  It should be an interesting day for the market.

Er, that little group, most of us feel bad that asshole is making us money. 
[/quote

It has gone down a lot more then that during this administration.

[tim_m]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/voter-turnout-record-high-election-2020