The Biden administration (was: The NEW 2020 Election Thread)

[cineater]

Gotta wonder if Trump is all there, after a report that said without a stimulus the economy is going to tank, then Trump says no stimulus until after i win. Did he just officially end his presidency. I am beginning to think he's trying to lose now.

That's what I thought.  The whole hospital and mask thing and now no stimulus until after the election.  Is he trying to lose?  The VP debate just got interesting.

I checked into that commemorative coin.  Apparently the White House gift shop was contracted out and has nothing to do with the government.  The guy running the business came up with that coin.

[cineater]

I'm still worried.  Where is all this money coming from?  "a total national debt of $26.70 trillion", according to my google search.  That just says we are spending like we are the richest country in the world.  How are we going to get that debt down or are we just adding to it?  I don't want that hanging over future generations.  (Legalize pot and we'll get that debt down there and be happy to do it, tax that.  )

Here's the little secret that conservatives don't want you to know; the national debt doesn't really matter that much. We're making the payments just fine and not under any threat of defaulting or losing credibility as a borrower. And more importantly, right now is the worst time to be thinking about the debt because we have the more pressing issue of an economy on a 40 year decline compounded by the Covid crisis' economic effects. Fixing that will take investment, not divestment.

However, if we want to at least stem the growth of the debt, we have to look at what we did that blew it up to this scale in the first place; endless wars and tax cuts. Trump's tax cut alone blew a Trillion dollar hole in the deficit

https://www.axios.com/warren-buffett-national-debt-6fa22c24-bc40-4cda-8895-973605ea465a.html

https://www.newsweek.com/us-deficit-trump-coronavirus-economy-recession-1494263

And for a deeper dive: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/08/our-money-where-our-mouth-is

We are not the richest country in the world according to this:

Here is the conclusive list of the top fifty-five richest countries in the world, starting with the wealthiest country…

Luxembourg (GDP per capita: $119,719)
Norway (GDP per capita: $86,362)
Switzerland (GDP per capita: $83,832)
Ireland (GDP per capita: $81,477)
Iceland (GDP per capita: $78,181)
Qatar (GDP per capita: $65,062)
The United States of America (GDP per capita: $64,906)
Denmark (GDP per capita: $63,434)
Singapore (GDP per capita: $62,690)
Australia (GDP per capita: $58,824)

Never heat of Qatar.  Isn't Luxembourg smaller than Rhode Island?  Where's Russia and China on that list?

We're the largest by nominal GDP:



Regardless, being 7th largest in GDP per capita certainly doesn't disprove the point that we have plenty of ability to spend on our citizens. Look at the countries on that list and compare their living standards to ours. The contrast is stark.

And yes, Luxembourg is a tiny haven for the wealthy. If you split the wealthiest American county into its own country, it would probably beat Luxembourg.

I admit I don't get managing the huge US economy.  But they use to talk about balancing the budget all the time, somewhere that dropped off the radar.  Making payments and investing in the future for higher returns sounds like what took the farmers down.  The pandemic to me has put all of our budgets in a crisis, from the individual
to business to government.  I've seen our manufacturing jobs disappear.  People tell me the corporate tax was to partially to blame.  Those jobs seem to have gone to the service industry where the pay is low and the employee benefits almost non existent.  I think our foremost problem is doing something about that. 

[tim_m]

Gotta wonder if Trump is all there, after a report that said without a stimulus the economy is going to tank, then Trump says no stimulus until after i win. Did he just officially end his presidency. I am beginning to think he's trying to lose now.

That's what I thought.  The whole hospital and mask thing and now no stimulus until after the election.  Is he trying to lose?  The VP debate just got interesting.

I checked into that commemorative coin.  Apparently the White House gift shop was contracted out and has nothing to do with the government.  The guy running the business came up with that coin.

He's reversed course again, sorta, now he says he's open to some stimulus checks and money for some businesses and airlines. I have to wonder who is still even listening or taking him seriously at this point.

And about the debate this week with Harris and Pence. She will be surrounded by plexiglass. They aren't going to make Pence do so as well even though he's been exposed what a circus.

[PermissionToLand]

I admit I don't get managing the huge US economy.  But they use to talk about balancing the budget all the time, somewhere that dropped off the radar.  

Deficit hawks have been at it for decades. It's just an excuse for them to downsize the government so it's less able to challenge corporate power.

Making payments and investing in the future for higher returns sounds like what took the farmers down.  

... what?

The pandemic to me has put all of our budgets in a crisis, from the individual
to business to government.  

The government's budget does not work like a household budget. Your household does not issue the very money used to pay its own debts. A government does. There is, in other words, no budget to "bust". A national "budget" is merely an account of national spending priorities, and does not represent an external constraint in the manner of a household budget.

My entire point was that deficit spending is necessary to get out of an economic downturn. So the pandemic putting individuals and businesses into a tight spot is all the more reason for the government to spur demand with relief packages.

I've seen our manufacturing jobs disappear.  People tell me the corporate tax was to partially to blame.

Well, those people have lied to you. They only sent the manufacturing overseas, that means they are still paying our corporate rates on their headquarters (which, with all our loopholes, the average effective rate is somewhere between 19-27%, a little below average of all OECD nations). What do you really think was the motivation? Uprooting an entire manufacturing ecosystem to get China's 25% rate only on the business they do there, or the massively lower payroll costs of a factory workforce being paid pennies on the dollar? They left because NAFTA and PNTRC opened up the opportunity to exploit the labor of developing countries.

[pilferk]

I admit I don't get managing the huge US economy.  But they use to talk about balancing the budget all the time, somewhere that dropped off the radar.  Making payments and investing in the future for higher returns sounds like what took the farmers down.  The pandemic to me has put all of our budgets in a crisis, from the individual
to business to government.  I've seen our manufacturing jobs disappear.  People tell me the corporate tax was to partially to blame.  Those jobs seem to have gone to the service industry where the pay is low and the employee benefits almost non existent.  I think our foremost problem is doing something about that.  

People tell you wrong.

The primary reason companies have left the US, for manufacturing, is labor costs.

Not tax rates, not regulation, not anything else.

Because the corporate tax rate has nothing to do with where you manufacture things.  It has to do with where you incorporate.  And all these companies still incorporate in the US.

You can manufacture things anywhere you want, sell it anywhere you want, and you will still pay the same corporate tax rate on profits if you are a US corporation.

Blaming the corporate tax rate for companies moving their operations over seas is a red herring.  And an obvious one, at that.

And those types of manufacturing jobs are gone.  They are not coming back without some pretty heavy regulation that Repubs would never, ever, ever vote for.  Most Dems wouldn't either.

So you need to find a new source of revenue.  The US is good at new technology and at new product creation. We have proven good at creating and manufacturing the goods for new energy sources. There are sectors where we are globally competitive and have global advantages.  And they are understaffed.  So we need to endeavor to move our economy to depend on those, we need to create programs to train displaced workers to work in those industries, and we need to stop telling people those jobs are coming back.  Telling people those jobs are coming back is snake oil, and anyone peddling it is a snake oils salesman.

Trump, over 3.5 years, has seen a net negative to manufacturing jobs.  He has not brought them back.  Just like he hasn't brought back the coal jobs.

[pilferk]

He's reversed course again, sorta, now he says he's open to some stimulus checks and money for some businesses and airlines. I have to wonder who is still even listening or taking him seriously at this point.

And about the debate this week with Harris and Pence. She will be surrounded by plexiglass. They aren't going to make Pence do so as well even though he's been exposed what a circus.

Because, as is typically the case, he threw his twitter tantrum and someone with some sense came to him and said "You just lost the election....and tanked the countries economy."  Someone talked sense to him.  We'll see how long it lasts.

Oh, and the stock market had fits.

[pilferk]

And.....it looks like Trump is now working in the Oval Office.

After docs told him to remain in the residence.

What. The. Fuck.

[tim_m]

Total cluster fuck.

[tim_m]

He's reversed course again, sorta, now he says he's open to some stimulus checks and money for some businesses and airlines. I have to wonder who is still even listening or taking him seriously at this point.

And about the debate this week with Harris and Pence. She will be surrounded by plexiglass. They aren't going to make Pence do so as well even though he's been exposed what a circus.

Because, as is typically the case, he threw his twitter tantrum and someone with some sense came to him and said "You just lost the election....and tanked the countries economy."  Someone talked sense to him.  We'll see how long it lasts.

Oh, and the stock market had fits.

Too little too late, you can't get the cat back in the bag now

[PermissionToLand]

Kamala is DESTROYING Pence.

[tim_m]

Kamala is DESTROYING Pence.

I'm not watching it yet, has he cried for mother yet?

[pilferk]

OMG!! The fly!! tim you gotta watch just for the fly. The fly wins the debate.

Also, the mansplaining pretty much sunk him with suburban women. It was bad.

[cineater]

I thought it was a good debate.  There was a lot of substance.  I think you got a pretty clear picture on where the candidates differ on the issues. 

Totally missed the fly.

[tim_m]

I thought it was a good debate.  There was a lot of substance.  I think you got a pretty clear picture on where the candidates differ on the issues. 

Totally missed the fly.

It's at 27:40 into it.

[cineater]

I thought it was a good debate.  There was a lot of substance.  I think you got a pretty clear picture on where the candidates differ on the issues. 

Totally missed the fly.

It's at 27:40 into it.

Not watching it again. 

I love all the talk of going green but I have a question.  What is the environmental impact?  I know these new light bulbs need special disposal but I have no idea where to take them.  They end up in the trash.  I know the going green uses batteries.  Is there an issue with them and disposal?  I trust science but they only know what they know today.  Science got us where we are today.  You can't deny science is short sighted.  There's many examples of they didn't see the long term effects of their discoveries.  We rushed into the industrial revolution and didn't see the pollution coming.

[pilferk]

Polls show that people think Harris won the debate, but narrowly.   I'd say that's big a win for Biden, overall. Pence didn't sway anyone last night, and failed, mostly, to put words and positions into the Dems mouths.  Harris probably didn't either...but I'm not sure you have to when you're in the position the Biden ticket is right now.  

Commission says next debate will change to virtual town hall to protect everyone from Trump....and Trump says he won't participate.  So we'll see what happens there.  If Trump REALLY doesn't participate....I mean, that's almost a concession.  Of course, at this point, as Pence said...they're not really concentrating on the election.  They're going to the courts so they can be declared the winners that way.

[pilferk]

Not watching it again. 

I love all the talk of going green but I have a question.  What is the environmental impact?  I know these new light bulbs need special disposal but I have no idea where to take them.  They end up in the trash.  I know the going green uses batteries.  Is there an issue with them and disposal?  I trust science but they only know what they know today.  Science got us where we are today.  You can't deny science is short sighted.  There's many examples of they didn't see the long term effects of their discoveries.  We rushed into the industrial revolution and didn't see the pollution coming.

Welp, we can either go green....and be here to see 2120.

Or we can hem and haw over trying to find a "perfect" solution, basically do nothing, and watch the planet burn.

And, honestly, science didn't get us here. Greed did.

[pilferk]

I'm just gonna leave this here:

Overwhelming Majority Of Racial Justice Protests Are Peaceful

https://apps.npr.org/liveblogs/20201007-debate/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social#overwhelming-majority-of-racial-justice-92

[PermissionToLand]

Bringing the parents of an ISIS captee to the debate and trying to blame the Obama/Biden admin for their daughter's death was beyond repulsive. I expect Trump to go that low, but not Pence.

It's also just moronic to think you can get a win from that. It would be akin to saying "if Joe were president, there would have been no Covid in the first place!" It's such obviously baseless speculation and taking advantage of the grief and coping mechanisms of a grieving family.

These are the behaviors we need to remember whenever Republicans call for civility. They have spent decades lowering the bar through the core of the Earth.

[PermissionToLand]

I love all the talk of going green but I have a question.  What is the environmental impact?  I know these new light bulbs need special disposal but I have no idea where to take them.  They end up in the trash.  I know the going green uses batteries.  Is there an issue with them and disposal?  I trust science but they only know what they know today.  Science got us where we are today.  You can't deny science is short sighted.  There's many examples of they didn't see the long term effects of their discoveries.  We rushed into the industrial revolution and didn't see the pollution coming.

Well, as a car guy I can tell you what it means for arguably the most technologically complex object the average American owns. Studies have shown that the life cycle emissions of an EV or hybrid are lower than that of an internal combustion engine, and that includes emissions from production as well as use and disposal. Batteries can last just as long as a gas engine, if not longer. You have Tesla taxis with over 300k miles on them in CA right now. And when the batteries give out, they can be recycled.

Which is, in fact, a huge industry waiting to be unleashed if we only held corporations liable to recycle all of the waste their products create. We could create millions of jobs at factories where old products are disassembled and sorted into their recyclable materials.

Not only that, you eliminate many of the environmentally disastrous fluids like motor oil that a gas engine has.

As far as your light bulbs go, your local transfer station should have guidelines if you check their website. You can also bring them to Home Depot just like you bring old motor oil to AutoZone.