The Biden administration (was: The NEW 2020 Election Thread)

[pilferk]

Bob Woodward just dropped the mic on Trump.

[tim_m]

They are begging for people to work the polls.  Not that I want to go sit there all day long or wouldn't do it as volunteer work but they require you to declare a party affiliation.  I'm an independent voter.  I'm not going to lie to them.  My friend who is doing it got assigned as a supervisor her first day just because she was willing to do the extra work associated with it.

Why do you have to declare a party?

[jarmo]

#TrumpKnew



Anyone shocked that a right wing populist would put the economy (and his popularity) first, ahead of the heath of people?




/jarmo

[cineater]

They are begging for people to work the polls.  Not that I want to go sit there all day long or wouldn't do it as volunteer work but they require you to declare a party affiliation.  I'm an independent voter.  I'm not going to lie to them.  My friend who is doing it got assigned as a supervisor her first day just because she was willing to do the extra work associated with it.

Why do you have to declare a party?

Apparently the two main parties have to be represented at the polling place to keep an eye on each other.  I always wondered why it took two people to check me in and give me my ballot.  But you can change party affiliation anytime you want.  You can be a dem this time and a rep the next.  Like that isn't wide open for fraud.    I only know, they both frown at me when I declare non partisan.  I, as non partisan, could do both their jobs at the same time and they wouldn't be so short staffed.

[cineater]

#TrumpKnew



Anyone shocked that a right wing populist would put the economy (and his popularity) first, ahead of the heath of people?




/jarmo

I'm going to assume we have several hundred thousand of those folks in every polluted city, child labor, trafficking, drug producing, (continue with list) in the world but I'll just narrow down to what did Trump do now?

[cineater]

#TrumpKnew



Anyone shocked that a right wing populist would put the economy (and his popularity) first, ahead of the heath of people?




/jarmo

I'm going to assume we have several hundred thousand of those folks in every polluted city, child labor, trafficking, drug producing, (continue with list) in the world but I'll just narrow down to what did Trump do now?

The lying about covid thing?  I'm going to say we knew.  We just thought Trump was in denial.  You can't really argue about the trying to keep people from panicking after the hoarding of toilet paper that went on.    My problem with Biden is he says he's going to keep us safe.  Little bit of nazi in every politician and people in power.  I'm willing to cooperate but that's as far as I'm willing to go with mandates.  Shutting down the economy is bad for peoples physical and mental health too.  The economy isn't about making money, it's about people being able to live and have their basic needs met.

[tim_m]

They are begging for people to work the polls.  Not that I want to go sit there all day long or wouldn't do it as volunteer work but they require you to declare a party affiliation.  I'm an independent voter.  I'm not going to lie to them.  My friend who is doing it got assigned as a supervisor her first day just because she was willing to do the extra work associated with it.

Why do you have to declare a party?

Apparently the two main parties have to be represented at the polling place to keep an eye on each other.  I always wondered why it took two people to check me in and give me my ballot.  But you can change party affiliation anytime you want.  You can be a dem this time and a rep the next.  Like that isn't wide open for fraud.    I only know, they both frown at me when I declare non partisan.  I, as non partisan, could do both their jobs at the same time and they wouldn't be so short staffed.

Well that sucks, you'd think this time at least they'd make exceptions.

[pilferk]

The lying about covid thing?  I'm going to say we knew.  We just thought Trump was in denial.

Now we have it in his own words. He lied. Intentionally Straight up.

 You can't really argue about the trying to keep people from panicking after the hoarding of toilet paper that went on.  

Yeah, but his lies also certainly made a segment of the country take the virus less seriously.  Calling it a democratic hoax politicized the response (and continues to do so). It assuredly led to thousands and thousands of additional deaths.

Also, this guy tries to create panics on the daily to benefit him politically.  Dangerous immigrant caravans, mexican rapists, minority invasion of the suburbs, mail in voting....I could go on and on with examples.  What he meant was: I didn't want to create a panic that might negatively effect my election chances and the stock market. The American people's health and safety be damned.

This country has a history of shooting straight with it's  citizens in times of crisis, and dealing with the outcome.  IF he had been honest and IF he had actually taken steps in late January, we could have nipped this in the bud early, taken measures then, and minimized the effect on our country. He chose, instead, to LIE about the virus, try to actually impede responses by states, and to politicize the virus (probably because he knew it would likely hurt him in the polls).  He made things worse.

My problem with Biden is he says he's going to keep us safe.  Little bit of nazi in every politician and people in power.  I'm willing to cooperate but that's as far as I'm willing to go with mandates.  Shutting down the economy is bad for peoples physical and mental health too.  The economy isn't about making money, it's about people being able to live and have their basic needs met.

Serious issues call for serious responses.  Trump hasn't done that.  Yes, shutting down the economy is a tough solution.  Hopefully, with the vaccine, we can avoid any long term shut down going forward. BUT, if Trump had shut down in January...we likely would have been shut down 4 to 6 weeks (looking at other countries models and numbers) and likely would have all but eradicated the virus in the US. We would have been pretty close to 100% back to normal by May. If Trump had used the Defense Act, in January, to get tests produced, and put the full might and vigor of the US government into contact tracing, we may have been able to shorten even that time frame.

He did none of that.  His actions actually CAUSED the extended economic shut down, and he STILL pushed to reopen too fast. And so...we have almost 200k dead. We have an economy in crisis.  He has blood on his hands.  We suspected it before....now we know it.  In his own words.  He knew, and rather than take action, rather than let people know the severity of the issue, he chose to downplay and politicize it.

A vote for this guy, now, just legitimizes and endorses those actions.

[cineater]

Okay, too long to quote that but I don't agree that a total shutdown of the country would have kept it out of here.  After 4 to 6 weeks are you saying it wouldn't have got in here from the rest of the world 2 months later?  Wouldn't have come in from Canada or Mexico?  I lean more towards it's coming and it will get to your area, protect yourself the best way you can and hold on until there is a vaccine.  Shut downs in my opinion were only a good solution to keep the hospitals from being over ran.  But then you have the other side of people not getting out patient surgery, medical people out of work, and people afraid to go to the hospital with medical emergencies.

There's a long and growing list of problems caused by shutting down.  It's too late to look back and say we should have done it differently.  I expect our leaders to concentrate on getting us through this.  Not spend their time pointing fingers.  And I'm a little pissed at a guy who waited to tell us this for when his fucking book came out at the prime marking time.  Yeah, nobody is getting spared here when it comes to my growing anger over what this whole situation says about us and what the people in the lead are doing for themselves.

I'm waiting for the debates to make my final choice.  I know who I would like to see out of office but given the choices I don't know who I want there.  Biden really pissed me off when he picked a running mate based on their gender and race, not for their qualifications.

[pilferk]

Okay, too long to quote that but I don't agree that a total shutdown of the country would have kept it out of here.  After 4 to 6 weeks are you saying it wouldn't have got in here from the rest of the world 2 months later?  Wouldn't have come in from Canada or Mexico?  I lean more towards it's coming and it will get to your area, protect yourself the best way you can and hold on until there is a vaccine.  Shut downs in my opinion were only a good solution to keep the hospitals from being over ran.  But then you have the other side of people not getting out patient surgery, medical people out of work, and people afraid to go to the hospital with medical emergencies.

I'm relying on what the experts, scientists, data and results in other countries says.  You restrict entry from out of the country (we're still doing that, FYI) and shut everything down for 4 to 6 weeks EARLY.  That's what most countries did....and they contained their numbers much better than we did (and were basically back in business).  They then rolled out wide scale testing and contact tracing while things were shut down. We still don't have that throughout the country. If you have that when you reopen, if there are infections or mini outbreaks, you have the capacity to contact trace, quarantine, and test.

That's what other countries did...and it worked.  Hard to argue with their results.

There's a long and growing list of problems caused by shutting down.

Sure, because we've been partially shut down now for...6 months. Not 4 to 6 weeks.  With a 6 month shut down, you have to figure out a way to provide a basic income for those who can't work.  We never did that....and the price tag of doing so would be pretty enormous.  That "growing list"?  All due to Trumps delay.  I said this right from the beginning: If we can shut down for a max of 8 weeks, we'll be fine.  Beyond that, we're in trouble.

 It's too late to look back and say we should have done it differently.  I expect our leaders to concentrate on getting us through this.  Not spend their time pointing fingers.

No, it's not.  That's how you handle disasters. You do a post mortem.  And you hold the people who fucked up accountable for those fuck ups.  There's an election soon.  Trump lied and fucked up.  You hold him accountable for that.  Or you tacitly endorse his fuck ups.

And I'm a little pissed at a guy who waited to tell us this for when his fucking book came out at the prime marking time.  Yeah, nobody is getting spared here when it comes to my growing anger over what this whole situation says about us and what the people in the lead are doing for themselves.

Yes.  Woodward (if he was able...IDK what the agreement was to get the interviews...maybe he couldn't) should have shouted back in March or April.

But that doesn't excuse Trumps actions and words.  Hard to hold Woodward accountable when he's not in office.  So...yes. Be angry at the messenger.  But don't discount the message.  That's just muddying the waters.

I'm waiting for the debates to make my final choice.  I know who I would like to see out of office but given the choices I don't know who I want there.  Biden really pissed me off when he picked a running mate based on their gender and race, not for their qualifications.

Again, Harris was the most qualified, most "electable", candidate given his options.  She really was.  We talked about this a few pages back.  She happens to be black and female, too.  But Klobachar pulled her name from the running.  At that point, it was Dick Durbin, Elizabeth Warren, Tammy Duckworth, and Harris....or Tim Kane, I guess,  but he carries the "Hillary" stank.

All but one of those are women...so it was pretty easy to say "I'll pick a woman as VP" during the debates.

Who else would you have rather seen?

[tim_m]

Okay, too long to quote that but I don't agree that a total shutdown of the country would have kept it out of here.  After 4 to 6 weeks are you saying it wouldn't have got in here from the rest of the world 2 months later?  Wouldn't have come in from Canada or Mexico?  I lean more towards it's coming and it will get to your area, protect yourself the best way you can and hold on until there is a vaccine.  Shut downs in my opinion were only a good solution to keep the hospitals from being over ran.  But then you have the other side of people not getting out patient surgery, medical people out of work, and people afraid to go to the hospital with medical emergencies.

I'm relying on what the experts, scientists, data and results in other countries says.  You restrict entry from out of the country (we're still doing that, FYI) and shut everything down for 4 to 6 weeks EARLY.  That's what most countries did....and they contained their numbers much better than we did (and were basically back in business).  They then rolled out wide scale testing and contact tracing while things were shut down. We still don't have that throughout the country. If you have that when you reopen, if there are infections or mini outbreaks, you have the capacity to contact trace, quarantine, and test.

That's what other countries did...and it worked.  Hard to argue with their results.

There's a long and growing list of problems caused by shutting down.

Sure, because we've been partially shut down now for...6 months. Not 4 to 6 weeks.  With a 6 month shut down, you have to figure out a way to provide a basic income for those who can't work.  We never did that....and the price tag of doing so would be pretty enormous.  That "growing list"?  All due to Trumps delay.  I said this right from the beginning: If we can shut down for a max of 8 weeks, we'll be fine.  Beyond that, we're in trouble.

 It's too late to look back and say we should have done it differently.  I expect our leaders to concentrate on getting us through this.  Not spend their time pointing fingers.

No, it's not.  That's how you handle disasters. You do a post mortem.  And you hold the people who fucked up accountable for those fuck ups.  There's an election soon.  Trump lied and fucked up.  You hold him accountable for that.  Or you tacitly endorse his fuck ups.

And I'm a little pissed at a guy who waited to tell us this for when his fucking book came out at the prime marking time.  Yeah, nobody is getting spared here when it comes to my growing anger over what this whole situation says about us and what the people in the lead are doing for themselves.

Yes.  Woodward (if he was able...IDK what the agreement was to get the interviews...maybe he couldn't) should have shouted back in March or April.

But that doesn't excuse Trumps actions and words.  Hard to hold Woodward accountable when he's not in office.  So...yes. Be angry at the messenger.  But don't discount the message.  That's just muddying the waters.

I'm waiting for the debates to make my final choice.  I know who I would like to see out of office but given the choices I don't know who I want there.  Biden really pissed me off when he picked a running mate based on their gender and race, not for their qualifications.

Again, Harris was the most qualified, most "electable", candidate given his options.  She really was.  We talked about this a few pages back.  She happens to be black and female, too.  But Klobachar pulled her name from the running.  At that point, it was Dick Durbin, Elizabeth Warren, Tammy Duckworth, and Harris....or Tim Kane, I guess,  but he carries the "Hillary" stank.

All but one of those are women...so it was pretty easy to say "I'll pick a woman as VP" during the debates.

Who else would you have rather seen?

I mean just look at how well New York is doing by doing it properly after being blindsided by covid. Mitigation works.

[tim_m]

Now Trump is blaming Woodward, saying he should've said something if he thought it would've saved lives. I mean the gall of this man. He's the president, geez supposed to keep his people safe. Instead he's doing what he always does, blame everyone else but himself. Absolutely no accountability.

[pilferk]

I mean just look at how well New York is doing by doing it properly after being blindsided by covid. Mitigation works.

Yup, Connecticut, too.  It has worked all over the world.

When you can depoliticize it and do it right.  It's 4 to 6 weeks of pain, and then you're mostly back to normal.

Masks, essential services only, hand washing/santizing, testing, testing, testing...and contact tracing.  Its worked in the UK, France, Spain, South Korea, Finland, Denmark.....all over the place.

BUT, if you wait too long, or try reopen too early, OR let people come in and out of your state/country who have done those things.....it all goes tits up.

[pilferk]

Now Trump is blaming Woodward, saying he should've said something if he thought it would've saved lives. I mean the gall of this man. He's the president, geez supposed to keep his people safe. Instead he's doing what he always does, blame everyone else but himself. Absolutely no accountability.

A defense of: "You should have tattled on me when I lied and made things worse" is not a defense.  It's a cop out.  It's muddying the waters and...as is the Trump playbook...trying to blame someone else for your failings.

Woodward probably should have, if he could have, said something.  But you can't blame HIM for TRUMPS actions.  He was simply documenting them for history.  It's ridiculous.

[cineater]

And what the fuck is this?

Domestic violent extremists “across the ideological spectrum likely will continue to plot against government and election-related targets to express their diverse grievances involving government policies and actions,” the FBI said in a recent election-focused bulletin sent to law enforcement across the country.

Not only do we have the problems to deal with, you get these folks.

[tim_m]

I mean just look at how well New York is doing by doing it properly after being blindsided by covid. Mitigation works.

Yup, Connecticut, too.  It has worked all over the world.

When you can depoliticize it and do it right.  It's 4 to 6 weeks of pain, and then you're mostly back to normal.

Masks, essential services only, hand washing/santizing, testing, testing, testing...and contact tracing.  Its worked in the UK, France, Spain, South Korea, Finland, Denmark.....all over the place.

BUT, if you wait too long, or try reopen too early, OR let people come in and out of your state/country who have done those things.....it all goes tits up.

Hell just yesterday the UK after a spike from the previous day immediately banned gatherings if more then 6 people. Just a little while ago, i saw a teacher died of covid on Tuesday. She was diagnosed on Friday. She was only back to work a week. Now she's dead at 28.

[tim_m]

Now Trump is blaming Woodward, saying he should've said something if he thought it would've saved lives. I mean the gall of this man. He's the president, geez supposed to keep his people safe. Instead he's doing what he always does, blame everyone else but himself. Absolutely no accountability.

A defense of: "You should have tattled on me when I lied and made things worse" is not a defense.  It's a cop out.  It's muddying the waters and...as is the Trump playbook...trying to blame someone else for your failings.

Woodward probably should have, if he could have, said something.  But you can't blame HIM for TRUMPS actions.  He was simply documenting them for history.  It's ridiculous.

He's basically saying i was so bad at my job, someone should've done it for me.

[PermissionToLand]

Not that I trust that guy but all countries should be friendly with each other.  I know we are nowhere near being one plant, one people but that should be the goal.  We're all we've got and there's only one go around.  Why do we spend our time fighting and hating on one another?  "Ahes, ashes all fall down."

Yeah, why can't we just hold hands and sing kumbaya with murderous dictators working to undermine western democracy?

[pilferk]

And what the fuck is this?

Domestic violent extremists “across the ideological spectrum likely will continue to plot against government and election-related targets to express their diverse grievances involving government policies and actions,” the FBI said in a recent election-focused bulletin sent to law enforcement across the country.

Not only do we have the problems to deal with, you get these folks.

Yeah. No party has an exlusive on wack jobs. I think we have seen this advisory for every presidential election since Oklahoma City. Its sad.

[cineater]

The lying about covid thing?  I'm going to say we knew.  We just thought Trump was in denial.

Now we have it in his own words. He lied. Intentionally Straight up.

 You can't really argue about the trying to keep people from panicking after the hoarding of toilet paper that went on.  

Yeah, but his lies also certainly made a segment of the country take the virus less seriously.  Calling it a democratic hoax politicized the response (and continues to do so). It assuredly led to thousands and thousands of additional deaths.

Also, this guy tries to create panics on the daily to benefit him politically.  Dangerous immigrant caravans, mexican rapists, minority invasion of the suburbs, mail in voting....I could go on and on with examples.  What he meant was: I didn't want to create a panic that might negatively effect my election chances and the stock market. The American people's health and safety be damned.

This country has a history of shooting straight with it's  citizens in times of crisis, and dealing with the outcome.  IF he had been honest and IF he had actually taken steps in late January, we could have nipped this in the bud early, taken measures then, and minimized the effect on our country. He chose, instead, to LIE about the virus, try to actually impede responses by states, and to politicize the virus (probably because he knew it would likely hurt him in the polls).  He made things worse.

My problem with Biden is he says he's going to keep us safe.  Little bit of nazi in every politician and people in power.  I'm willing to cooperate but that's as far as I'm willing to go with mandates.  Shutting down the economy is bad for peoples physical and mental health too.  The economy isn't about making money, it's about people being able to live and have their basic needs met.

Serious issues call for serious responses.  Trump hasn't done that.  Yes, shutting down the economy is a tough solution.  Hopefully, with the vaccine, we can avoid any long term shut down going forward. BUT, if Trump had shut down in January...we likely would have been shut down 4 to 6 weeks (looking at other countries models and numbers) and likely would have all but eradicated the virus in the US. We would have been pretty close to 100% back to normal by May. If Trump had used the Defense Act, in January, to get tests produced, and put the full might and vigor of the US government into contact tracing, we may have been able to shorten even that time frame.

He did none of that.  His actions actually CAUSED the extended economic shut down, and he STILL pushed to reopen too fast. And so...we have almost 200k dead. We have an economy in crisis.  He has blood on his hands.  We suspected it before....now we know it.  In his own words.  He knew, and rather than take action, rather than let people know the severity of the issue, he chose to downplay and politicize it.

A vote for this guy, now, just legitimizes and endorses those actions.

This county has a history of shooting straight with its citizens?  It definitely does not.  Toxic waste dumps in peoples backyards, agent orange, presidents now beloved whose reputation for things they did in office nobody would have approved of, interns used as sex toys on capitol hill, dark money.  That list goes on and on.  They don't come clean until they get nailed for it.  They hide it all away under national security.  Our free press, Bob Woodard knows this, is our best line of defense.  If this is such a big deal, he failed us, failed his profession and he did it for his own profit.  

But I agree with him, just another stupid thing out of Trump's mouth.  I feel there was enough information out there at the time to warn me what was coming.  Not to say any of us knew the full ramifications.  This was something new to our generations.