The Biden administration (was: The NEW 2020 Election Thread)

[cineater]

I thought Biden looked pretty good last night.  Spent way too long on personal loss.

I can't believe Trump is having the St Louis couple who stood on their property with guns as protestors went by.  I understand their fear with the Ferguson violent protests but that's still not right.  I can't help but think if that had been a black couple out there, there would have been an immediate police response, there would have been on the spot arrests and somebody might have been shot.

That's just Biden, family is so important to him.

I wish he's be more clear on the word mandate when it comes to mask.  Is that a recommendation or something that will be enforced?  You go out in public and most folks where I am don't wear it.  Minor issue for me but I think it's something people latch on to.  I like the Bloomberg approach putting Trump down as a businessman but Bloomberg just reminds me of Trump as far as personalities.  Could they have got the the Amazon guy or the microsoft folks to say that?

lol, trying to combat Biden on that family thing by a memorial for Trump's brother at the white house.  Hey that's my tax dollars paying for that.  Never knew Trump had a brother until he died.  What did he do for the country?

[PermissionToLand]

You are voting for a rapist. Sleep well, buddy.

You are so desperate!

Nah, first of all, Biden has one accuser who has weird ties to Russia. Trump has like what, 13? One of whom was 13 years old. What a coincidence!

"I understood that both Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein knew that I was 13 years old.
On the fourth and final sexual encounter with Defendant Trump, Defendant Trump tied me to a bed,
exposed himself to me, and then proceeded to forcibly rape me. During the course of this savage sexual
attack, I loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to stop but he did not. Defendant Trump responded to
my pleas by violently striking me in the face with his open hand and screaming that he would do
whatever he wanted. Immediately following this rape, Defendant Trump threatened me that, were I ever to reveal
any of the details of Defendant Trump's sexual and physical abuse of me, my family and I would be
physically harmed if not killed."

http://files.courthousenews.com/2016/09/22/jane%20doe%20affidavit.pdf

You're voting for a pedophile rapist. Sleep well, buddy.

I love how rightists always take shots that literally apply more to Trump than Biden, and don't expect that shit to backfire. They're not the sharpest crayons in the box.

[PermissionToLand]

What have you done for BLM?

I called it! Thanks for proving my point by once again completely failing to make a substantive argument on the facts at hand. You divert yet again with a hilariously obvious non-sequitur. What in the world could my involvement in BLM have to do with your racist comments?

BTW, I have donated to BLM and my local bail fund, as well as attended PEACEFUL protests. I'm sorry I don't fit your hilarious caricature of a progressive "virtue signaler" [insert more buzzwords here]. It really displays how completely disconnected you are from reality that you actually think liberals are the absurd strawman they tell you on Fox News.

You should get out more. Try actually talking to progressive people, in good faith. If you're even capable of good faith discourse, that is. I don't see much evidence, sadly. The Failing Sandman racks up another loss!

Can u convince mommy to give up “your” house and give it to black people?

 

... what? You're not one of those nutbags who thinks BLM is Marxist or something are you? Also, that's not what Marxism is anyway. I'm sorry you're so ignorant of political theory, but if that's the case, just refrain from opining on theory you have't read. It's really that simple. Intelligent people don't form opinions on subjects they're ignorant of.

Back on topic, I accept your tacit concession on the fact that your comment was racist. 

[PermissionToLand]

How many of Trump's associates have now been either convicted or suspected of crimes?

Since he became president, he's not exactly been the poster boy for draining the swamp. Mexico didn't pay for the wall, and allegedly neither did those donations...

Oh yeah, and he got help winning the election. He likes to remind people that he won. No mention of how... The election in 2016 that he said would be rigged. Same tactics now. It's gonna be rigged etc.


Meanwhile his experts like the MyPillow guy wants you guys to think they have a cure for the Coronavirus...

Crooked Trump surrounds himself with only the best criminals. Big, beautiful, tremendous criminals. And now, the evidence is so irrefutable that even his own party cannot deny it anymore:

Four years later, Republican senators admit, "yes, Trump conspired with the Russians"

https://news.yahoo.com/four-years-later-republican-senators-112902404.html

[jarmo]

Trump scares the voters with all these scary stories about socialism and the Democrats turning the USA into Venezuela.

Once the pandemic hits, who's asking for government help? Many of the same people who demand the government stay out of their lives...


As someone who lives in one of those scary socialist countries with no freedoms (LOL), I find these scare tactics stupid. I know they are effective for the uninformed, but still...
Maybe, just maybe, the whole idea of social security is to help you when no one, or nothing, else will.... Maybe that's not a scary concept to begin with.


Meanwhile, a bunch of people supporting this government are out there coming up with all kinds of conspiracies. Yet the one person who's trying to hide things the most, is the one who's supposed to expose all these evil conspiracies to begin with. Really? 




/jarmo

[Dr. Blutarsky]

https://namex.co/man-in-england-says-he-saw-trumps-face-in-omelette/

Man in England says he saw Trump’s face in omelette




 

[PermissionToLand]

Trump scares the voters with all these scary stories about socialism and the Democrats turning the USA into Venezuela.

Once the pandemic hits, who's asking for government help? Many of the same people who demand the government stay out of their lives...


As someone who lives in one of those scary socialist countries with no freedoms (LOL), I find these scare tactics stupid. I know they are effective for the uninformed, but still...
Maybe, just maybe, the whole idea of social security is to help you when no one, or nothing, else will.... Maybe that's not a scary concept to begin with.


Meanwhile, a bunch of people supporting this government are out there coming up with all kinds of conspiracies. Yet the one person who's trying to hide things the most, is the one who's supposed to expose all these evil conspiracies to begin with. Really? 




/jarmo

Always remember their SOP; projection and gaslighting. When you are the most radical right wing president in US history, what do you do? You paint your milquetoast centrist opponent as even more radical than you to muddy the water and neutralize your biggest weakness. When you're a corrupt crooked thug enriching yourself and your cronies through the office of the presidency and your pedophile sex ring running best friend gets caught and you've already got an allegation of rape from a 13 year old, what do you do? You guessed it; you accuse the entire opposing party of a massive sex trafficking conspiracy. Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. We all know he's a pathological narcissist. Countless professional psychologists have said so. So why are we not reading his actions through the lens of what psychologists know about how narcissists operate? DARVO. Remember that.

[tim_m]

https://namex.co/man-in-england-says-he-saw-trumps-face-in-omelette/

Man in England says he saw Trump’s face in omelette




 

Ok that's just funny as hell.

[tim_m]

Trump scares the voters with all these scary stories about socialism and the Democrats turning the USA into Venezuela.

Once the pandemic hits, who's asking for government help? Many of the same people who demand the government stay out of their lives...


As someone who lives in one of those scary socialist countries with no freedoms (LOL), I find these scare tactics stupid. I know they are effective for the uninformed, but still...
Maybe, just maybe, the whole idea of social security is to help you when no one, or nothing, else will.... Maybe that's not a scary concept to begin with.


Meanwhile, a bunch of people supporting this government are out there coming up with all kinds of conspiracies. Yet the one person who's trying to hide things the most, is the one who's supposed to expose all these evil conspiracies to begin with. Really? 




/jarmo

Fearmongering at is best, have you seen the movie and American president? The speech Andrew Shepherd gives at the end sums up. You gather up a bunch of middle aged, middle income voters, talk to them about longing and simpler times, you say these people are the reason for you rotten lives, then you go on tv, in this case and say these people are to blame. Step 1 is making you afraid of it step 2 is telling you who to blame for it. Then you go on tv, or Twitter and call them crazy names.

[cineater]

Trump scares the voters with all these scary stories about socialism and the Democrats turning the USA into Venezuela.

Once the pandemic hits, who's asking for government help? Many of the same people who demand the government stay out of their lives...


As someone who lives in one of those scary socialist countries with no freedoms (LOL), I find these scare tactics stupid. I know they are effective for the uninformed, but still...
Maybe, just maybe, the whole idea of social security is to help you when no one, or nothing, else will.... Maybe that's not a scary concept to begin with.


Meanwhile, a bunch of people supporting this government are out there coming up with all kinds of conspiracies. Yet the one person who's trying to hide things the most, is the one who's supposed to expose all these evil conspiracies to begin with. Really? 




/jarmo

Fearmongering at is best, have you seen the movie and American president? The speech Andrew Shepherd gives at the end sums up. You gather up a bunch of middle aged, middle income voters, talk to them about longing and simpler times, you say these people are the reason for you rotten lives, then you go on tv, in this case and say these people are to blame. Step 1 is making you afraid of it step 2 is telling you who to blame for it. Then you go on tv, or Twitter and call them crazy names.

A lot of what they says about politics in that movie rings true.  "So busy trying to keep my job, I forgot to do my job."

[tim_m]

Trump scares the voters with all these scary stories about socialism and the Democrats turning the USA into Venezuela.

Once the pandemic hits, who's asking for government help? Many of the same people who demand the government stay out of their lives...


As someone who lives in one of those scary socialist countries with no freedoms (LOL), I find these scare tactics stupid. I know they are effective for the uninformed, but still...
Maybe, just maybe, the whole idea of social security is to help you when no one, or nothing, else will.... Maybe that's not a scary concept to begin with.


Meanwhile, a bunch of people supporting this government are out there coming up with all kinds of conspiracies. Yet the one person who's trying to hide things the most, is the one who's supposed to expose all these evil conspiracies to begin with. Really? 




/jarmo

Fearmongering at is best, have you seen the movie and American president? The speech Andrew Shepherd gives at the end sums up. You gather up a bunch of middle aged, middle income voters, talk to them about longing and simpler times, you say these people are the reason for you rotten lives, then you go on tv, in this case and say these people are to blame. Step 1 is making you afraid of it step 2 is telling you who to blame for it. Then you go on tv, or Twitter and call them crazy names.

A lot of what they says about politics in that movie rings true.  "So busy trying to keep my job, I forgot to do my job."

Yep

[jarmo]

The amazing thing, unfortunately, is that some people actually believe in all that.

Bill Clinton or Obama didn't turn the country into Cuba/Venezuela/North Korea.

Meanwhile, the one doing the most damage to the country, and it's reputation abroad, is preparing for his party, I mean, family convention.






/jarmo

[pilferk]

Have you considered that you have a bias?  

Wait, wait, wait...I remember this game from third grade!

I know you are but what am I?

To put your little heart at ease: Yes, I've considered it.  And it's irrelevant.

I'm citing a widely held opinion that the speech was good, demonstrated mental alacrity, and validated Biden's ability to speak with emotion and understanding.

I'm also professionally familiar with neuro-trauma, neuro-deficit, and neurologic disease...and the way those things are tested for.  I'm not a clinician...but I have participated in the creation of, monitoring of, and analyzing of those tests and their results. I pretty much NEVER break out my CV in these discussions...but there you have it.

I'm also not goal post moving.  I did not, as many conservatives did, draw a line in the sand and say "Watch Biden's DNC speech" and then say "well now he has to debate" (something he did not many months ago, if you remember) and will likely then say "Well, now he has to do a live press conference".

I have also NOT ignored the foibles of the candidate I previously voted for and yet applied a double standard to the candidate running AGAINST the guy I voted for.  Watch Trump give a "straight from the teleprompter" speech.  See how he reads mostly without emotion, like a drone.  See how he often makes mistakes with the material, or drifts off topic via "riffing"?  See how he often outright lies when he doesn't have direct knowledge of the material or is uncomfortable with it?  

I'm not offering any diagnosis on Trump, here. That would be out of bounds. There could be many reasons he acts/speaks that way. But that you accept those potential symptoms in Trump (without notice or comment or speculation) and then go after Biden for "dementia"? At best, a show of bias.  At worst, a show of hypocrisy.

I'm no expert at neurological diseases, but anyone can see that Biden in 2020 is not the same as he was when he was VP.  

So, succinctly, you have no earthly clue what the fuck you are talking about....other than what your own bias, and your echo chamber news sources are telling you?

That about cover it?

"anyone can see", "many people are saying", "everyone knows it"....straight from the trump playbook.

Present some actual, factual, well founded, and hell...MEDICALLY based evidence of it.  You can't just declare it to be so and have it be so.  Especially when it comes to medical conditions...diagnosis like that is irresponsible, reckless, and unethical. As I've said in previous posts on this topic.  It's no better when people diagnose Trump with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

FOX NEWS acknowledged it was a good speech. Laura fucking Ingraham acknowledged it was a good speech. YOU acknowledged it was a good speech.

The only reason you "need more" is because you're in the tank for Trump...and are being told that there is mental illness/deficit there to see.  Not because there is actually any concrete evidence of it. And this speech shows exactly that point.  If he can make that speech, the way he did, after sundown....with stamina, alacrity, and emotion....there's no case to be made that he's suffering from dementia, senility, or any other significant mental decline.

Dealing with a stutter is not dementia, FYI.  And, as you said, you wouldn't know the difference anyway.

[pilferk]

We all know he's a pathological narcissist. Countless professional psychologists have said so. So why are we not reading his actions through the lens of what psychologists know about how narcissists operate? DARVO. Remember that.

So, I'd be remiss (and a bit of a hypocrit) if I didn't address this. Sorry in advance for the rant.

Can we leave the diagnosis language out of this?  I think Trump is a self obsessed, self aggrandizing, liar.  There is ample evidence to make that statement. I would say it's fair given his actions. I think Joe Biden is a man who has longstanding challenges with public speaking, battling his stutter, stumbling over words and making verbal gaffes. There is ample evidence to make that statement.

We can let the other side debate their contrary viewpoint, if they have one.

But a pathological narcissist (or Narcissistic Personality Disorder or dementia) is a clinical diagnosis we can't make.  And, I'd argue, neither can those countless professional psychologists who go on TV and present it.  You can not diagnose someone, ethically, without actually examining them, in a clinical setting, with clinical expertise. None of us have examined Trump...not even those psychologists.  Observing someone's public behavior isn't enough to allege a diagnosis.  I think if we're going to use clinical terms, we need clinical data and expertise to support them. We don't have that.  Otherwise we are doing the person we are "diagnosing" a grave disservice (no matter what side of the aisle they are on) AND we are diminishing the meaning of those diagnostic terms.

And I acknowledge I'm being something of a wonk on this topic. Professional hazard, I guess. Honestly, if we're going to go in that direction, I'm going to excuse myself for a bit.  I simply can't participate in what is, really, an problematic (ethically speaking) diagnosis of a person without actual clinical exposure and investigation.  I just can't. I know others won't feel strongly about this topic, and I totally get it, so I'm not going to go all ape shit and perpetuate an argument going forward. But personally and professionally, I find it....icky....so if the group wants to go down that path, I'll just exit, stage right, for awhile.  Maybe take that left turn in Albaquerque.

[pilferk]

Even Wallace praised the speech. He's being interviewed Sunday on ABC. Let's see how that goes

I've only watched pieces so far....trying to dive in to the whole interview in a bit.

Joe seemed pretty coherent, lucid, and able to answer questions well, to me.

What did you think?

[pilferk]

OK, so far the RNC is...hard to watch.  Just poor production values compared to the DNC IMHO. Trumps 50 minute "airing of grievances" speech (EARLY FESTIVUS!!!) notwithstanding. We'll see what the prime time stuff brings....

And...their platform is....Trump.  Seriously, there is no platform other than to support Trumps 2nd term.  So...whatever Trump ultimately decides is....their platform. At some point. Maybe?

I've watched a lot of conventions.  Has that ever been done before? Am I forgetting it?  Totally possible, just seemed weird.

[tim_m]

Even Wallace praised the speech. He's being interviewed Sunday on ABC. Let's see how that goes

I've only watched pieces so far....trying to dive in to the whole interview in a bit.

Joe seemed pretty coherent, lucid, and able to answer questions well, to me.

What did you think?

I saw all 5 parts and thought both he and Harris did well. Only once did he kinda stumble on coronavirus. He totally goaded Trump when they asked him if he could win from home. I saw two people who can't wait to get on that debate stage.

[tim_m]

OK, so far the RNC is...hard to watch.  Just poor production values compared to the DNC IMHO. Trumps 50 minute "airing of grievances" speech (EARLY FESTIVUS!!!) notwithstanding. We'll see what the prime time stuff brings....

And...their platform is....Trump.  Seriously, there is no platform other than to support Trumps 2nd term.  So...whatever Trump ultimately decides is....their platform. At some point. Maybe?

I've watched a lot of conventions.  Has that ever been done before? Am I forgetting it?  Totally possible, just seemed weird.

Hard to have a platform without having one, or even an idea of what you want it to be. Literally the most dysfunctional administration ever.

[PermissionToLand]

We all know he's a pathological narcissist. Countless professional psychologists have said so. So why are we not reading his actions through the lens of what psychologists know about how narcissists operate? DARVO. Remember that.

So, I'd be remiss (and a bit of a hypocrit) if I didn't address this. Sorry in advance for the rant.

Can we leave the diagnosis language out of this?  I think Trump is a self obsessed, self aggrandizing, liar.  There is ample evidence to make that statement. I would say it's fair given his actions. I think Joe Biden is a man who has longstanding challenges with public speaking, battling his stutter, stumbling over words and making verbal gaffes. There is ample evidence to make that statement.

We can let the other side debate their contrary viewpoint, if they have one.

But a pathological narcissist (or Narcissistic Personality Disorder or dementia) is a clinical diagnosis we can't make.  And, I'd argue, neither can those countless professional psychologists who go on TV and present it.  You can not diagnose someone, ethically, without actually examining them, in a clinical setting, with clinical expertise. None of us have examined Trump...not even those psychologists.  Observing someone's public behavior isn't enough to allege a diagnosis.  I think if we're going to use clinical terms, we need clinical data and expertise to support them. We don't have that.  Otherwise we are doing the person we are "diagnosing" a grave disservice (no matter what side of the aisle they are on) AND we are diminishing the meaning of those diagnostic terms.

And I acknowledge I'm being something of a wonk on this topic. Professional hazard, I guess. Honestly, if we're going to go in that direction, I'm going to excuse myself for a bit.  I simply can't participate in what is, really, an problematic (ethically speaking) diagnosis of a person without actual clinical exposure and investigation.  I just can't. I know others won't feel strongly about this topic, and I totally get it, so I'm not going to go all ape shit and perpetuate an argument going forward. But personally and professionally, I find it....icky....so if the group wants to go down that path, I'll just exit, stage right, for awhile.  Maybe take that left turn in Albaquerque.

Look, I hear you. I mean, this is the conceit we keep running into with Trump; how do you respond to an extremist with appropriate counter-force but without setting a precedent where that kind of pushback becomes the new norm? The way I see it; the GOP has already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they do not respect norms anyway. In fact, the precedent was already set by them; they pulled out all the stops to kneecap the first black president. They are simply thugs, they break the rules as a matter of standard procedure. If you keep playing the game while the other team keeps moving the goalposts, you will always lose. You get the moral victory of not stooping to their level, but that is meaningless if they now control the entire country and will not hesitate to remove the principles of liberal democracy that you held yourself to and which they never did.

When 27 mental health experts go to the length of publishing a freaking book, screaming at Americans to take this seriously, I cannot in good conscience stay silent.

And as I understand it, that whole "Goldwater Rule" was the result of a lawsuit, not a sovereign determination by the APA as a body that they genuinely felt it was unethical. This short video makes a good point on the subject, IMO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rELHUMNt4HM

Most pointedly, the point that the dearth of experts commenting on the subject allows pundits to reign supreme, and that's how Fox News went so unchallenged in attacking Obama's mental fitness (how absurd is that, especially in retrospective). The can of worms is open already and has been for years. If pundits are not barred from commenting on it, allowing experts to weigh in can only raise the bar of discourse, the way I see it.

No need to apologize for the rant, I appreciate your contribution.

[jarmo]

What's it called when your family benefits, by getting jobs in the White House, from you being president?

Is this draining the swamp? 

Or just an example of hiring the best there is?





/jarmo