Should GnR songs be played?

[PermissionToLand]

He absolutely was racist when he wrote that song.

Obviously you have no idea, and didn't even pay attention to all the lyrics in the song.

Please do explain. I read all of Axl's lengthy "justifications" if you could even call them that on that Rolling Stone article and he did nothing but dig himself deeper. If by "all the lyrics", you're referring to the "radicals and racists" line, that does not negate the rest of the lyrics. In fact, it's deliberately trying to distance himself from the image of racism while clearly engaging in it. It's like Trump hiring Mike Pence and yet claiming he "loves the LGBT" at that one rally. Claiming you're not racist means nothing when your own words show you to be one.

[jarmo]

Please do explain. I read all of Axl's lengthy "justifications" if you could even call them that on that Rolling Stone article and he did nothing but dig himself deeper. If by "all the lyrics", you're referring to the "radicals and racists" line, that does not negate the rest of the lyrics. In fact, it's deliberately trying to distance himself from the image of racism while clearly engaging in it.

Exactly. In the lyrics themselves he points out that he's not what you claim him to be.

I'm still not convinced you know a person based on a few lines in a song and reading some interviews.

Sorry.





/jarmo

[FreddieJames]

First off, I don't think Axl is a racist. He WAS discriminating against gays, blacks and foreigners in One In A Million, though. There's no denying that. However, he was also a young 26 year old with NO IDEA how the world really works. He has obviously changed a lot.

I think it would be hypocritical if a shit storm would ensue over this song. It is a fact that pretty much ALL male hip hop is full of hate towards gay people. As a gay man (a major minority within the GnR landscape unfortunately) One In A Million never bothered me, since it's just a young man's barely adult reflections on first time life experiences. I actually love the song cause it's so brutally honest and has a good hook.

Knowing that Axl doesn't hate gay people (proved by his love for Elton John and Freddie Mercury and by his own statements) is enough for me. Most black rappers (and white 'hey Eminem') hate for gay people is very real, and I am more worried about their songs than a song GnR has already retracted from future releases. It would however be best if they take it off all streaming services, to prove the point it is indeed a thing of the past. Otherwise, I am pretty sure within the next few years a shit storm will start over this song.

[rebelhipi]

Great points by FreddieJames.

One thing people tend to forget is that Axl apologizes and explains his lyrics on the album cover that statement was written before the song was even released.

Like he says the song is simple and written from a point view of someone who has has those experiences, that dont mean that the teller is right. Its a song about real life. Racism is real, and the song is looking at life from the point of view of someone racist. And some of the reasons why someone like you and me could have racist/homophobic thoughts. Those thoughts are wrong of course, and we all know it. Understanding those thoughts is a positive thing, for me atleast cause i can see the issue from a more rational side while understanding that those views are not right. (for example, a victim of sexual abuse from a gay man can cause homophobia, but its wrong cause sexual abuse is not a gay thing it happens in every sexual orientation)

[GypsySoul]

Maybe I should not watch the Naked Gun movies anymore since OJ brutally sliced and diced an innocent man & woman
 

Allegedly 

The good news is that you're both mistaken so you can watch the Naked Gun movies if you so choose because OJ was actually found NOT GUILTY by a jury of his peers!!! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rurKd569xRw

The bad news is that our judicial system is extremely flawed and the families of those two innocent people did not receive the justice they deserved.
 



P.S.  The Kate Smith statue outside the Flyers arena has been removed.

[Ginger King]

Maybe I should not watch the Naked Gun movies anymore since OJ brutally sliced and diced an innocent man & woman
 

Allegedly 

The good news is that you're both mistaken so you can watch the Naked Gun movies if you so choose because OJ was actually found NOT GUILTY by a jury of his peers!!! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rurKd569xRw

The bad news is that our judicial system is extremely flawed and the families of those two innocent people did not receive the justice they deserved.
 



P.S.  The Kate Smith statue outside the Flyers arena has been removed.

CORRECTION:  Was found not guilty (criminally) but was found civilly liable (hence why he owes the victims families millions of dollars that he will likely never repay).  Either way, I'm still watching the Naked Gun.

[allwaystired]

Maybe I should not watch the Naked Gun movies anymore since OJ brutally sliced and diced an innocent man & woman
 

Allegedly 

The good news is that you're both mistaken so you can watch the Naked Gun movies if you so choose because OJ was actually found NOT GUILTY by a jury of his peers!!! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rurKd569xRw

The bad news is that our judicial system is extremely flawed and the families of those two innocent people did not receive the justice they deserved.
 



P.S.  The Kate Smith statue outside the Flyers arena has been removed.

CORRECTION:  Was found not guilty (criminally) but was found civilly liable (hence why he owes the victims families millions of dollars that he will likely never repay).  Either way, I'm still watching the Naked Gun.

Love that film, wouldn't go anywhere near OJ or give him anything approaching respect. Those two feelings can exist at the same time.

[GNR4LIFEJD]

The biggest shame to me about One in a Million is I think it happens to be a great song musically. I have no problem with the words I look at it as this could be someone's own personal experience coming to the big city and coming from a more rural area the culture shock is actually understandable. It is really unfortunate people just can't look at it as what it is a song.

[COMAMOTIVE]

Maybe I should not watch the Naked Gun movies anymore since OJ brutally sliced and diced an innocent man & woman
 

Allegedly 

The good news is that you're both mistaken so you can watch the Naked Gun movies if you so choose because OJ was actually found NOT GUILTY by a jury of his peers!!! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rurKd569xRw

The bad news is that our judicial system is extremely flawed and the families of those two innocent people did not receive the justice they deserved.
 



P.S.  The Kate Smith statue outside the Flyers arena has been removed.

CORRECTION:  Was found not guilty (criminally) but was found civilly liable (hence why he owes the victims families millions of dollars that he will likely never repay).  Either way, I'm still watching the Naked Gun.

AMEN

[PermissionToLand]

Please do explain. I read all of Axl's lengthy "justifications" if you could even call them that on that Rolling Stone article and he did nothing but dig himself deeper. If by "all the lyrics", you're referring to the "radicals and racists" line, that does not negate the rest of the lyrics. In fact, it's deliberately trying to distance himself from the image of racism while clearly engaging in it.

Exactly. In the lyrics themselves he points out that he's not what you claim him to be.

I'm still not convinced you know a person based on a few lines in a song and reading some interviews.

Sorry.





/jarmo

I think the issue here is the definition of the word "racism". You are taking it (as many do) as a judgement of a person that is absolute. As in, if you are a racist, that defines you and it will never change. This is not true. Prejudice is common in almost all people to some degree. A person can be prejudiced or racist without that defining who they are. Maybe I should have worded it this way, "Axl engaged in racism or made racist statements". And obviously, as I said, Axl grew up and learned from his mistake. So I don't think that those statements define his character in any way. But it would be an injustice to the people affected by racism to claim that the statements themselves were not racist, because it lowers the bar for racism, which I hope we could all understand is a dangerous thing to do. After all, saying the n-word is such a low bar for racism that it was a scandal back in 1989. I would hope that 30 years later we have made progress.

But again, claiming that you are not racist does not make you not a racist. Even open white supremacists will deny they are racist.

First off, I don't think Axl is a racist. He WAS discriminating against gays, blacks and foreigners in One In A Million, though. There's no denying that. However, he was also a young 26 year old with NO IDEA how the world really works. He has obviously changed a lot.

I think it would be hypocritical if a shit storm would ensue over this song. It is a fact that pretty much ALL male hip hop is full of hate towards gay people. As a gay man (a major minority within the GnR landscape unfortunately) One In A Million never bothered me, since it's just a young man's barely adult reflections on first time life experiences. I actually love the song cause it's so brutally honest and has a good hook.

Knowing that Axl doesn't hate gay people (proved by his love for Elton John and Freddie Mercury and by his own statements) is enough for me. Most black rappers (and white 'hey Eminem') hate for gay people is very real, and I am more worried about their songs than a song GnR has already retracted from future releases. It would however be best if they take it off all streaming services, to prove the point it is indeed a thing of the past. Otherwise, I am pretty sure within the next few years a shit storm will start over this song.

In keeping with my above statements, I think you are misunderstanding the use of the word "racist". Also, "discrimination", but I won't get into that because I agree with what you're trying to say there.

But this use of rap as a whataboutism needs to stop. Pointing to somebody else doing something wrong is not a defense for your (genre's) behavior.

Also, it's funny you mentioned Eminem in particular because he did the exact same thing Axl did by using Elton John as a shield from criticism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM74R9z7W4A

However, much like rock, rap has come a long way since its early days in the '90s. To say "pretty much ALL rap is homophobic" is just simple not true. But it was absolutely a problem with the genre for some time, and still is, which is also still true for rock to some extent, if we're being honest.

[jarmo]

I think the issue here is the definition of the word "racism". You are taking it (as many do) as a judgement of a person that is absolute. As in, if you are a racist, that defines you and it will never change. This is not true. Prejudice is common in almost all people to some degree. A person can be prejudiced or racist without that defining who they are. Maybe I should have worded it this way, "Axl engaged in racism or made racist statements".

Exactly. A majority of people don't think calling someone a racist, means that the person was a little bit racist before breakfast, but normal the rest of the day.

Even open white supremacists will deny they are racist.

And idiots believe they're not idiots.



/jarmo

[Dr. Blutarsky]

You dont have to agree with a song or literary work ( or whatever else it is) to see it for what it is, a product of the time period.

Maybe you're even offended by it and rightly so. But take a step back and consider it was a product of its time. If it wasn't considered racist when it was created that should be considered.   

Yes we have progressed as a society but doesn't mean we need to whitewash the past. How do you learn from something that gets erased?

Philosophical rant over.

[PermissionToLand]

I think the issue here is the definition of the word "racism". You are taking it (as many do) as a judgement of a person that is absolute. As in, if you are a racist, that defines you and it will never change. This is not true. Prejudice is common in almost all people to some degree. A person can be prejudiced or racist without that defining who they are. Maybe I should have worded it this way, "Axl engaged in racism or made racist statements".

Exactly. A majority of people don't think calling someone a racist, means that the person was a little bit racist before breakfast, but normal the rest of the day.

Even open white supremacists will deny they are racist.

And idiots believe they're not idiots.



/jarmo

I suggest certain people stop with the name calling.

If you can't get your point across without it, try again.

In regard to racism, unfortunately, most people use the term wrong.

You dont have to agree with a song or literary work ( or whatever else it is) to see it for what it is, a product of the time period.

Maybe you're even offended by it and rightly so. But take a step back and consider it was a product of its time. If it wasn't considered racist when it was created that should be considered.   

Yes we have progressed as a society but doesn't mean we need to whitewash the past. How do you learn from something that gets erased?

Philosophical rant over.

Except that there was backlash in the very time period it came out...

And nobody is erasing history, enough of this same strawman that gets trotted out to defend confederate statues. History books are where you learn history, not songs or statues that idolize reprehensible people. Getting rid of things that promote/display racism is not erasing racism from history. Try again.

[jarmo]

I suggest certain people stop with the name calling.

If you can't get your point across without it, try again.

If you're trying to use my words against me, you failed. Nothing in my post was aimed at you personally.

Unless you're an idiot who believes otherwise. In that case, sorry!




/jarmo

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Except that there was backlash in the very time period it came out...

And nobody is erasing history, enough of this same strawman that gets trotted out to defend confederate statues. History books are where you learn history, not songs or statues that idolize reprehensible people. Getting rid of things that promote/display racism is not erasing racism from history. Try again.

 
A statue of Robert E Lee or Thomas Jefferson does not promote or display racism.  The statues were not erected because they owned slaves, the recognition was based on their achievements and you can go read about them in the history books ( or Wikipedia) .  Looking back at historical figures with a one dimensional mindset is too simplistic.  We all know slavery was a bad chapter in our nations history.

But my point in my previous post is  that  attitudes change over time as we progress as a society  and there isn't a need to be puritanical over the past.

Perhaps I should have clarified that One in a Million was not the same case, it was controversial when it came out if that was what you were focusing on.

[FreddieJames]

First off, I don't think Axl is a racist. He WAS discriminating against gays, blacks and foreigners in One In A Million, though. There's no denying that. However, he was also a young 26 year old with NO IDEA how the world really works. He has obviously changed a lot.

I think it would be hypocritical if a shit storm would ensue over this song. It is a fact that pretty much ALL male hip hop is full of hate towards gay people. As a gay man (a major minority within the GnR landscape unfortunately) One In A Million never bothered me, since it's just a young man's barely adult reflections on first time life experiences. I actually love the song cause it's so brutally honest and has a good hook.

Knowing that Axl doesn't hate gay people (proved by his love for Elton John and Freddie Mercury and by his own statements) is enough for me. Most black rappers (and white 'hey Eminem') hate for gay people is very real, and I am more worried about their songs than a song GnR has already retracted from future releases. It would however be best if they take it off all streaming services, to prove the point it is indeed a thing of the past. Otherwise, I am pretty sure within the next few years a shit storm will start over this song.

In keeping with my above statements, I think you are misunderstanding the use of the word "racist". Also, "discrimination", but I won't get into that because I agree with what you're trying to say there.

But this use of rap as a whataboutism needs to stop. Pointing to somebody else doing something wrong is not a defense for your (genre's) behavior.

Also, it's funny you mentioned Eminem in particular because he did the exact same thing Axl did by using Elton John as a shield from criticism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM74R9z7W4A

However, much like rock, rap has come a long way since its early days in the '90s. To say "pretty much ALL rap is homophobic" is just simple not true. But it was absolutely a problem with the genre for some time, and still is, which is also still true for rock to some extent, if we're being honest.

I know the difference between racism and discrimination, thanks. Axl was considered a racist (discrimination based on color of the skin or ethnicity) for his use of the word nigger(s), but seeing in the song One In A Million he is also discriminating against foreign people (which can be white, so not racism but yes discrimination based on origin) and gays (again, can be white so not racism but discrimination based on sexual preference) I used the word discrimination. So yeah, I know the difference and conciously used both since they're both applicable. Axl was considered a racist and was discriminating.

And regarding Eminem: you need to catch up. Yeah, he did the Axl thing with Elton John. But that's old news I wasn't referring to. In 2018 he called Tyler The Creator a 'faggot' based on rumours that Tyler was coming out on his latest album. For a 46 year old like Eminem that's a little pathetic, and he should know better especially after his thing with Elton John and since he is an icon to so many young people. He received so much criticism for that issue with Tyler that he issued an actual apology. Backtracked in interviews. In 2018.

I think your argument about me pointing to rap is BS and you seem to be a bit full of yourself. If you can read you should have read that I did not defend One In A Million as I said they should also take it off of streaming services. However, OIAM is one of the last songs in rock that's by a well known band that's full of blatant discrimination against gays. Rap music is still very full of discrimination against gays. To this day. That was and still is my point. I'm pointing to where it's most prevelant, cause it would be hypocritical to have a shitstorm over an old song when popular music by current artists is still full of it. That's a fight that should be fought. If you feel that's unfair cause "it also happens in rock" then follow your own advice: "But this use of rap rock as a whataboutism needs to stop. Pointing to somebody else doing something wrong is not a defense for your (genre's) behavior."

[PermissionToLand]

First off, I don't think Axl is a racist. He WAS discriminating against gays, blacks and foreigners in One In A Million, though. There's no denying that. However, he was also a young 26 year old with NO IDEA how the world really works. He has obviously changed a lot.

I think it would be hypocritical if a shit storm would ensue over this song. It is a fact that pretty much ALL male hip hop is full of hate towards gay people. As a gay man (a major minority within the GnR landscape unfortunately) One In A Million never bothered me, since it's just a young man's barely adult reflections on first time life experiences. I actually love the song cause it's so brutally honest and has a good hook.

Knowing that Axl doesn't hate gay people (proved by his love for Elton John and Freddie Mercury and by his own statements) is enough for me. Most black rappers (and white 'hey Eminem') hate for gay people is very real, and I am more worried about their songs than a song GnR has already retracted from future releases. It would however be best if they take it off all streaming services, to prove the point it is indeed a thing of the past. Otherwise, I am pretty sure within the next few years a shit storm will start over this song.

In keeping with my above statements, I think you are misunderstanding the use of the word "racist". Also, "discrimination", but I won't get into that because I agree with what you're trying to say there.

But this use of rap as a whataboutism needs to stop. Pointing to somebody else doing something wrong is not a defense for your (genre's) behavior.

Also, it's funny you mentioned Eminem in particular because he did the exact same thing Axl did by using Elton John as a shield from criticism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM74R9z7W4A

However, much like rock, rap has come a long way since its early days in the '90s. To say "pretty much ALL rap is homophobic" is just simple not true. But it was absolutely a problem with the genre for some time, and still is, which is also still true for rock to some extent, if we're being honest.

I know the difference between racism and discrimination, thanks. Axl was considered a racist (discrimination based on color of the skin or ethnicity) for his use of the word nigger(s), but seeing in the song One In A Million he is also discriminating against foreign people (which can be white, so not racism but yes discrimination based on origin) and gays (again, can be white so not racism but discrimination based on sexual preference) I used the word discrimination. So yeah, I know the difference and conciously used both since they're both applicable. Axl was considered a racist and was discriminating.

And regarding Eminem: you need to catch up. Yeah, he did the Axl thing with Elton John. But that's old news I wasn't referring to. In 2018 he called Tyler The Creator a 'faggot' based on rumours that Tyler was coming out on his latest album. For a 46 year old like Eminem that's a little pathetic, and he should know better especially after his thing with Elton John and since he is an icon to so many young people. He received so much criticism for that issue with Tyler that he issued an actual apology. Backtracked in interviews. In 2018.

I think your argument about me pointing to rap is BS and you seem to be a bit full of yourself. If you can read you should have read that I did not defend One In A Million as I said they should also take it off of streaming services. However, OIAM is one of the last songs in rock that's by a well known band that's full of blatant discrimination against gays. Rap music is still very full of discrimination against gays. To this day. That was and still is my point. I'm pointing to where it's most prevelant, cause it would be hypocritical to have a shitstorm over an old song when popular music by current artists is still full of it. That's a fight that should be fought. If you feel that's unfair cause "it also happens in rock" then follow your own advice: "But this use of rap rock as a whataboutism needs to stop. Pointing to somebody else doing something wrong is not a defense for your (genre's) behavior."

Apparently not; using the n-word is not discrimination. Discrimination is treating one person differently than another, like refusing to serve gay people. Using a slur is bigotry but not discrimination. Axl did not refuse service or refuse to work with any of those people, he used slurs against them. These are not the same thing. You even go on to explicitly define racism as discrimination in your second sentence. Discrimination is an example of racism, but not the entirety of what constitutes racism. They are different words with very different meanings. But I can tell these nuances are being lost on you...

I don't follow Eminem anymore since I feel he's lost his flow and sense of humor after Relapse. But he did make an apology, something he never did back in the '90s/'00s. That alone is progress. But let's stop for a second and think, why did he call Tyler that? Because Tyler, one of the biggest modern rappers in the game, has been pushing the boundaries of the genre's acceptance of gay people by flirting with homosexuality/bisexuality himself (I don't follow too closely, he may have since confirmed it). That's a huge thing that would have been unthinkable in 1997. So rap has absolutely made progress. The fact that a rapper who grew out of the '90s and was most famous then is still making homophobic insults is not a surprise and not really reflective of the modern crop of rappers. Now, to that I'm sure you'll go find a new rapper being homophobic and again, I never said it's been eradicated. But neither has it been from rock entirely.

If my argument is "BS", then tear it apart with logic. You are making a whataboutism fallacy, it's as plain as day. Somebody criticizes rock and you shift attention to rap instead of addressing the problem. It's a cheap dodge.

I never said you were defending OIAM. I said you were misusing the term "discrimination" and making a whataboutism fallacy. It seems you are projecting about reading comprehension...

OIAM is not at all "one of the last homophobic songs in rock", are you friggin' kidding me? The guys in Dragonforce were previously from a band called "Kill all the F----ts". You have tone-deaf comments from Kid Rock, who still uses ‘gay’ in interviews as a synonym for "shit", the same way a nine-year-old schoolkid does. Velvet Revolver wrote Get Out The Door almost 20 years after OIAM came out. Prince became anti-gay after being born-again later in his life. Some Christian Metal band called For Today said some homophobic stuff... I mean, you have to be kidding me acting like rock has no homophobia anymore.

https://www.spin.com/2011/10/special-report-homophobia-haunts-indie-rock/

And of course, Country music has some very serious issues with bigotry, but for some reason, it's always rap that gets scapegoated... hmm, I wonder why...

I am all for calling out rap artists for bigotry of any kind. You seem to be assuming that everyone is as fond of diversions as you are... if you actually care about fighting injustice or even just doing the right thing, you don't defend someone just because you like them.

[rebelhipi]

First off, I don't think Axl is a racist. He WAS discriminating against gays, blacks and foreigners in One In A Million, though. There's no denying that. However, he was also a young 26 year old with NO IDEA how the world really works. He has obviously changed a lot.

I think it would be hypocritical if a shit storm would ensue over this song. It is a fact that pretty much ALL male hip hop is full of hate towards gay people. As a gay man (a major minority within the GnR landscape unfortunately) One In A Million never bothered me, since it's just a young man's barely adult reflections on first time life experiences. I actually love the song cause it's so brutally honest and has a good hook.

Knowing that Axl doesn't hate gay people (proved by his love for Elton John and Freddie Mercury and by his own statements) is enough for me. Most black rappers (and white 'hey Eminem') hate for gay people is very real, and I am more worried about their songs than a song GnR has already retracted from future releases. It would however be best if they take it off all streaming services, to prove the point it is indeed a thing of the past. Otherwise, I am pretty sure within the next few years a shit storm will start over this song.

In keeping with my above statements, I think you are misunderstanding the use of the word "racist". Also, "discrimination", but I won't get into that because I agree with what you're trying to say there.

But this use of rap as a whataboutism needs to stop. Pointing to somebody else doing something wrong is not a defense for your (genre's) behavior.

Also, it's funny you mentioned Eminem in particular because he did the exact same thing Axl did by using Elton John as a shield from criticism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM74R9z7W4A

However, much like rock, rap has come a long way since its early days in the '90s. To say "pretty much ALL rap is homophobic" is just simple not true. But it was absolutely a problem with the genre for some time, and still is, which is also still true for rock to some extent, if we're being honest.

I know the difference between racism and discrimination, thanks. Axl was considered a racist (discrimination based on color of the skin or ethnicity) for his use of the word nigger(s), but seeing in the song One In A Million he is also discriminating against foreign people (which can be white, so not racism but yes discrimination based on origin) and gays (again, can be white so not racism but discrimination based on sexual preference) I used the word discrimination. So yeah, I know the difference and conciously used both since they're both applicable. Axl was considered a racist and was discriminating.

And regarding Eminem: you need to catch up. Yeah, he did the Axl thing with Elton John. But that's old news I wasn't referring to. In 2018 he called Tyler The Creator a 'faggot' based on rumours that Tyler was coming out on his latest album. For a 46 year old like Eminem that's a little pathetic, and he should know better especially after his thing with Elton John and since he is an icon to so many young people. He received so much criticism for that issue with Tyler that he issued an actual apology. Backtracked in interviews. In 2018.

I think your argument about me pointing to rap is BS and you seem to be a bit full of yourself. If you can read you should have read that I did not defend One In A Million as I said they should also take it off of streaming services. However, OIAM is one of the last songs in rock that's by a well known band that's full of blatant discrimination against gays. Rap music is still very full of discrimination against gays. To this day. That was and still is my point. I'm pointing to where it's most prevelant, cause it would be hypocritical to have a shitstorm over an old song when popular music by current artists is still full of it. That's a fight that should be fought. If you feel that's unfair cause "it also happens in rock" then follow your own advice: "But this use of rap rock as a whataboutism needs to stop. Pointing to somebody else doing something wrong is not a defense for your (genre's) behavior."

Apparently not; using the n-word is not discrimination. Discrimination is treating one person differently than another, like refusing to serve gay people. Using a slur is bigotry but not discrimination. Axl did not refuse service or refuse to work with any of those people, he used slurs against them. These are not the same thing. You even go on to explicitly define racism as discrimination in your second sentence. Discrimination is an example of racism, but not the entirety of what constitutes racism. They are different words with very different meanings. But I can tell these nuances are being lost on you...

I don't follow Eminem anymore since I feel he's lost his flow and sense of humor after Relapse. But he did make an apology, something he never did back in the '90s/'00s. That alone is progress. But let's stop for a second and think, why did he call Tyler that? Because Tyler, one of the biggest modern rappers in the game, has been pushing the boundaries of the genre's acceptance of gay people by flirting with homosexuality/bisexuality himself (I don't follow too closely, he may have since confirmed it). That's a huge thing that would have been unthinkable in 1997. So rap has absolutely made progress. The fact that a rapper who grew out of the '90s and was most famous then is still making homophobic insults is not a surprise and not really reflective of the modern crop of rappers. Now, to that I'm sure you'll go find a new rapper being homophobic and again, I never said it's been eradicated. But neither has it been from rock entirely.

If my argument is "BS", then tear it apart with logic. You are making a whataboutism fallacy, it's as plain as day. Somebody criticizes rock and you shift attention to rap instead of addressing the problem. It's a cheap dodge.

I never said you were defending OIAM. I said you were misusing the term "discrimination" and making a whataboutism fallacy. It seems you are projecting about reading comprehension...

OIAM is not at all "one of the last homophobic songs in rock", are you friggin' kidding me? The guys in Dragonforce were previously from a band called "Kill all the F----ts". You have tone-deaf comments from Kid Rock, who still uses ‘gay’ in interviews as a synonym for "shit", the same way a nine-year-old schoolkid does. Velvet Revolver wrote Get Out The Door almost 20 years after OIAM came out. Prince became anti-gay after being born-again later in his life. Some Christian Metal band called For Today said some homophobic stuff... I mean, you have to be kidding me acting like rock has no homophobia anymore.

https://www.spin.com/2011/10/special-report-homophobia-haunts-indie-rock/

And of course, Country music has some very serious issues with bigotry, but for some reason, it's always rap that gets scapegoated... hmm, I wonder why...

I am all for calling out rap artists for bigotry of any kind. You seem to be assuming that everyone is as fond of diversions as you are... if you actually care about fighting injustice or even just doing the right thing, you don't defend someone just because you like them.

Yeah Get Out The Door is quite transphobic  Not sure about Prince being anti gay, but he was a Jehovas witness so wouldnt be surprising.

I think rap music gets called out more cause its more blatant and the lyrics are often more aggressive anyway than lets say Princes music.

In my book using the n word is racist cause its putting down black people.  In Axls case the song is told by the eyes of a racist.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

^ That is a good point regarding One in a Million.

Here is another way to look at it. Should we condemn a song if the lyrics are from the point of view of a character the artist creates? That would be akin to judging an actor personally for a role he played in a movie.

[Whigged]

Here's a new article that brings up "One in a Million."

https://www.delcotimes.com/arts_and_entertainment/rock-music-menu-why-the-exile-of-kate-smith-is/article_b651513a-6765-11e9-9968-2be1a903b548.html