Axl and Duff interview this sunday for Brazilian TV (now with Izzy's response)

[D-GenerationX]

Izzy bailed in 1991 because of Axl's insanity.

But even before then, the other members were all saying amongst themselves he was sort of half assing it out there.

I also think Izzy has lost a lot of his "everyman" cred with how he's handled all this with the tweets and whatnot.  Kind of juvenile.

[GypsySoul]

Just to be clear, I'm sure most of us would love to see Izzy on stage with GN'R in the future. And considering that only a few years ago, the current tour would've seem impossible, so who knows what happens in the future.

I'm just pointing out that I suspect things aren't as black or white as his tweet might make it seem...  




/jarmo

This, This, this, so much this!!

I would love to see Izzy up there.

I respect both sides reasoning for why it didn't happen this tour.

Agree.  Hope both sides (or however many sides are involved in this) can find a satisfactory resolution for everyone concerned.

IMO, Izzy did himself a disservice by using the word "loot" (who uses that word anyway??)
Instead he should have said something along the lines of "We haven't as yet come to an agreement as to my role in this endeavor."

Hopefully, Axl's interview statement and Izzy's subsequent tweet will be the catalyst to reopen negotiations for Izzy's future participation.

[Sillything]

I remember interviews with both Izzy and Axl, separatley, from 91-92 that Izzy left because Axl wanted to "lower him down the totem pole", pay him less money because he wasn't running around on stage, and Axl confirming that by saying Izzy wasn't "working hard enough" on stage. I mean, just because he wasn't running around? It is after all Izzys songs and they didn't write new ones whitout him. Standing by the Marshalls is his stage persona and it's really cool! Izzy is a kind of Keith Richards type. Do you think Angus was paying Malcolm less money because they didn''t have the same coreography on stage?

I suspect that whole "not working hard enough" had more to do with the "playing a different song, in a different key" and having to have a tech who's job it specifically was to turn Izzy down in the mix.

And yes, I know that was while Izzy was fucked up.  But you're citing interviews from around that same time, too.

Izzy is'nt reliable? The last tour he was with them he "had a bus, they hade a plane and (he) beat them to the gig". He was there until he was not and he then he quit, for being paid less performing songs he wrote his way and in his style. He was on all their previous tours from 1986, did he  went missing some where? Didn't showed up? O.D.d?

It's simple.  And you can like it or not. But at the end of the day, Izzy walked out of the band, quit with almost no notice, on the eve of a HUGE global album launch and tour. He no showed video filming and, apparently, didn't actually explain why until he quit, later. Reason that away all you want, but it's whats happened.

That goes toward "unreliable".

And pick on the other members all you want, but, again, Izzy was joining their premade construct, this time.  So the negotiations on that front, in terms of THEIR potentially being "unreliable", were complete, and either assurances had been made, or folks were a bit more trusting (and given recent history, they had reason to trust) in those cases.  Has Izzy done anything. other than show up at a few shows (and Axl has always given the impression those visits were sort of impromptu) in recent years, to make the same case?

Honestly, I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up over this, or trying to "blame" either side.

All the guys have guitar techs don't they? If they turned him down for being fucked up, it must have been years Before 91. But he was really low that year too and he was the only one completley sober. Guess Slash just liked his guitar to be really loud and out there

Oh, I don't pick on any members, besides maybe Gilby for his lack of contribution and alwas on Chris Pitman for his contributions ( no thanx for the sub bass and what ever) and piss poor attitude.

[pilferk]

I guess there is no good time for a break up. If he didn't quit then was he supposed to have continued until Argentina in 93 just to be called reliable? At the time, I think, Axl was hurt that he quit, no matter the time frame. I think he felt let down.  Slash didn't seem to care so much at the time,( finding it more comfartable to handle Gilby wich could never be heard, talk about a guy who must have had his amp turned down very low the whole time! Never heard a riff/guitarr sound from that guy besides on Wild Horses.)

So it's not like Izzy just was a no show at a gig. That would be unreilable. He quit, he resigned. And people had the right to feel let down by that, but feeling let down by something is not the same thing as that person is some one you could not trust even if it may feel like it at the time.

I'm not saying he had to do anything different.

I'm saying what happened, happened.

And you can try to explain it away, but the fact is, he left them in the lurch.

As for that last bit...they are both varying degrees of unreliable.

If you don't show up for work one day, no call, no show, that's unreliable (aka the video shoots) in the eyes of the people you work with.

If you know there is a HUGE project going on at work, with a drop dead due date, and it hinges on your participation, included millions of dollars of investment, plus TIME SPENT from other people...and you quit just as it's about to happen...that, too, make you look unreliable to the people you work with.

He actually did both.

And you can argue that Axl and Slash have likewise had issues...but Axl has been the good citizen for about 5+ years, and Slash has been clean and reliable, DEMONSTRABLY, for about 15+ years.  They have a body of work they can point to that helps their case when talking to the other members.

Does Izzy have that?  Really?  All he has is the bad taste he left in their mouths when he walked away in a VERY SIMILAR situation.

I don't think they worry that Izzy will just not show up (maybe some of that, too).  I think they worry that 6 shows in he says "I'm done".  Or even 23 shows in, before the next leg is set to start.

You can sit there and argue that they shouldn't or it's not fair or whatever.

But it is what it is. It's not any more, or less, valid a point of view than Izzys.  I'm not trying to convince you that YOU should feel the same way Axl/Slash/Duff might.  I'm trying to lay out to you why THEY might feel that way, and be justified in doing so.  You don't have to agree..you just have to (well, you don't actually, but that's my intent here) see it from their side.

And realize that they're actually BOTH right.  BOTH sides are doing what they see as being in their best interests.

WE don't get the result we want, which sucks.  But thems the brakes.

[Ali]

Man, the vehemence behind some of the outrage I've seen about this is a little silly.  I get that this is somewhat disappointing, but the fact that some people are seemingly shocked that some of the decisions behind the tour were financially motivated is laughable.

The Axl/Slash reunion was ALWAYS the big draw here. That's what this was about.  Izzy damn near toured with the band in 2006 & 2014.  It was little more than a blurb on Rolling Stone. Now they're selling out football stadiums in the U.S. Hellooooo, anybody home McFly?!

This 100%.

I can't believe anyone is in denial of this. GN'R is playing stadiums in the US again because Slash and Duff (to perhaps a lesser extent) are back in the band. It is that simple.

Ali

That is undeniably true, but I don't think it's the reason they refused to share equally with Izzy.  If they knew he'd be all in 100%, bringing it night after night, learning the CD songs, remembering all the old ones, etc., I think they would have bit the bullet and paid him. 

Yes, but I honestly would bet my life savings that Axl wouldn't have kicked Richard to the curb.  If anything, Izzy would be the third guitarist.

But, the US tour was very successful and went off with no incidents.  The proof is in the pudding.  There's nothing to say based on the outcome and events of the tour that they were wrong in relying on Richard as opposed to Izzy.

Ali

[pilferk]

Izzy bailed in 1991 because of Axl's insanity.

But even before then, the other members were all saying amongst themselves he was sort of half assing it out there.

I also think Izzy has lost a lot of his "everyman" cred with how he's handled all this with the tweets and whatnot.  Kind of juvenile.

I've long said, in a different context, that nobody should be forced to work with someone who drives them, almost literally, insane.

And if that's the way Izzy felt, he was 100% justified for walking when he did.

And his bandmates are 100% justified for feeling that makes him a risky choice to take out on tour, especially since the relationship between the Axl/Slash/Duff was sort of untested at that point, and who knows what that interaction would become, and how it might effect Izzy.

[pilferk]

All the guys have guitar techs don't they? If they turned him down for being fucked up, it must have been years Before 91. But he was really low that year too and he was the only one completley sober. Guess Slash just liked his guitar to be really loud and out there

Oh, I don't pick on any members, besides maybe Gilby for his lack of contribution and alwas on Chris Pitman for his contributions ( no thanx for the sub bass and what ever) and piss poor attitude.

Here's some talk discussing it:

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/210020-why-was-izzys-amp-unplugged-during-the-91-uyi-tour/

You'll see mention of the '93 shows, too...but the thread talks about what was done during the '91 dates, too.  You'll notice, in the interview in the thread, Axl mentions is worked "especially well in Tel Aviv", insinuating that was not the first or only time they'd done it.

I agree, the sobriety references in Axls quotes make it sound like it started while Izzy was smashed (so pre '89) and just continued forward. Or they're Axl not remembering when Izzy got sober very well.

There's other documentation out there, too, if you're of a mind to go hunting.  This was just the easiest to pull up.

[D-GenerationX]

I've long said, in a different context, that nobody should be forced to work with someone who drives them, almost literally, insane.

And if that's the way Izzy felt, he was 100% justified for walking when he did.

And his bandmates are 100% justified for feeling that makes him a risky choice to take out on tour, especially since the relationship between the Axl/Slash/Duff was sort of untested at that point, and who knows what that interaction would become, and how it might effect Izzy.

Agree with all of this.

Axl was always, well...let's go with "difficult".  But in that summer of 1991 he was near completely unhinged.  Of course, none of us can really speak to being the biggest rock star in the world at that young age and all those expectations.

I just never understood how Izzy could leave the biggest band in the world.  For years, I sort of respected it because he never went on to do much else.  Figured the biggest of the big time just wasn't his scene.

That's why I can't figure out his angle now.  All of the sudden, he's offended?  Doesn't add up.

[TheBaconman]

I guess there is no good time for a break up. If he didn't quit then was he supposed to have continued until Argentina in 93 just to be called reliable? At the time, I think, Axl was hurt that he quit, no matter the time frame. I think he felt let down.  Slash didn't seem to care so much at the time,( finding it more comfartable to handle Gilby wich could never be heard, talk about a guy who must have had his amp turned down very low the whole time! Never heard a riff/guitarr sound from that guy besides on Wild Horses.)

So it's not like Izzy just was a no show at a gig. That would be unreilable. He quit, he resigned. And people had the right to feel let down by that, but feeling let down by something is not the same thing as that person is some one you could not trust even if it may feel like it at the time.

I'm not saying he had to do anything different.

I'm saying what happened, happened.

And you can try to explain it away, but the fact is, he left them in the lurch.

As for that last bit...they are both varying degrees of unreliable.

If you don't show up for work one day, no call, no show, that's unreliable (aka the video shoots) in the eyes of the people you work with.

If you know there is a HUGE project going on at work, with a drop dead due date, and it hinges on your participation, included millions of dollars of investment, plus TIME SPENT from other people...and you quit just as it's about to happen...that, too, make you look unreliable to the people you work with.

He actually did both.

And you can argue that Axl and Slash have likewise had issues...but Axl has been the good citizen for about 5+ years, and Slash has been clean and reliable, DEMONSTRABLY, for about 15+ years.  They have a body of work they can point to that helps their case when talking to the other members.

Does Izzy have that?  Really?  All he has is the bad taste he left in their mouths when he walked away in a VERY SIMILAR situation.

I don't think they worry that Izzy will just not show up (maybe some of that, too).  I think they worry that 6 shows in he says "I'm done".  Or even 23 shows in, before the next leg is set to start.

You can sit there and argue that they shouldn't or it's not fair or whatever.

But it is what it is. It's not any more, or less, valid a point of view than Izzys.  I'm not trying to convince you that YOU should feel the same way Axl/Slash/Duff might.  I'm trying to lay out to you why THEY might feel that way, and be justified in doing so.  You don't have to agree..you just have to (well, you don't actually, but that's my intent here) see it from their side.

And realize that they're actually BOTH right.  BOTH sides are doing what they see as being in their best interests.

WE don't get the result we want, which sucks.  But thems the brakes.

So how old where all the band members when the split happened and all this future touring for the UYI albums came out 26-31 years old roughly?

I am 36 now and I can tell you 10 years ago is a lot different than now.   How can you blame anyone for anything when they are that young.   Especially debating the actions of these young adults, 30 years later.

People look back at things like this band was some kind of experience group of adults, who had bee serious pros for many years.......    Its the complete opposite really

They were a bunch of kids pretty much, most of them were abusing substances, they where living together, playing local clubs, not much more than a high school education for most......

Then in a couple of years they are in the 20s, the biggest band in the world with more money than anyone!!!!    

They were still just a bunch of very young adults when they broke up..

I am sure Izzy is a lot different now, just like most people are 30 years later

[pilferk]

I've long said, in a different context, that nobody should be forced to work with someone who drives them, almost literally, insane.

And if that's the way Izzy felt, he was 100% justified for walking when he did.

And his bandmates are 100% justified for feeling that makes him a risky choice to take out on tour, especially since the relationship between the Axl/Slash/Duff was sort of untested at that point, and who knows what that interaction would become, and how it might effect Izzy.

Agree with all of this.

Axl was always, well...let's go with "difficult".  But in that summer of 1991 he was near completely unhinged.  Of course, none of us can really speak to being the biggest rock star in the world at that young age and all those expectations.

I just never understood how Izzy could leave the biggest band in the world.  For years, I sort of respected it because he never went on to do much else.  Figured the biggest of the big time just wasn't his scene.

That's why I can't figure out his angle now.  All of the sudden, he's offended?  Doesn't add up.

Is he offended?  Or does he just feel like he's setting the record straight.

Again, I go to Axl's quote and apply Gypsy's interpretation to it.  I think this is Izzy being Izzy. 

[sofine11]

I've long said, in a different context, that nobody should be forced to work with someone who drives them, almost literally, insane.

And if that's the way Izzy felt, he was 100% justified for walking when he did.

And his bandmates are 100% justified for feeling that makes him a risky choice to take out on tour, especially since the relationship between the Axl/Slash/Duff was sort of untested at that point, and who knows what that interaction would become, and how it might effect Izzy.

Agree with all of this.

Axl was always, well...let's go with "difficult".  But in that summer of 1991 he was near completely unhinged.  Of course, none of us can really speak to being the biggest rock star in the world at that young age and all those expectations.

I just never understood how Izzy could leave the biggest band in the world.  For years, I sort of respected it because he never went on to do much else.  Figured the biggest of the big time just wasn't his scene.

That's why I can't figure out his angle now.  All of the sudden, he's offended?  Doesn't add up.

I have to say, a day later, I'm finding that tweet pretty uncharacteristic of Izzy.  He must've been stewing over this for a while now to hear Axl's (relatively benign) comments and go off the deepend to launch that tweet out there.  Touch of regret perhaps?

[sofine11]

I've long said, in a different context, that nobody should be forced to work with someone who drives them, almost literally, insane.

And if that's the way Izzy felt, he was 100% justified for walking when he did.

And his bandmates are 100% justified for feeling that makes him a risky choice to take out on tour, especially since the relationship between the Axl/Slash/Duff was sort of untested at that point, and who knows what that interaction would become, and how it might effect Izzy.

Agree with all of this.

Axl was always, well...let's go with "difficult".  But in that summer of 1991 he was near completely unhinged.  Of course, none of us can really speak to being the biggest rock star in the world at that young age and all those expectations.

I just never understood how Izzy could leave the biggest band in the world.  For years, I sort of respected it because he never went on to do much else.  Figured the biggest of the big time just wasn't his scene.

That's why I can't figure out his angle now.  All of the sudden, he's offended?  Doesn't add up.

Is he offended?  Or does he just feel like he's setting the record straight.

Again, I go to Axl's quote and apply Gypsy's interpretation to it.  I think this is Izzy being Izzy. 

He's always struck me as pretty laid back.  That message...didn't seem like a dude trying to set the record straight for the fans.  He seemed straight up pissed.

[D-GenerationX]

I agree.  Seemed pissed.

[GypsySoul]

Izzy bailed in 1991 because of Axl's insanity.

But even before then, the other members were all saying amongst themselves he was sort of half assing it out there.

I also think Izzy has lost a lot of his "everyman" cred with how he's handled all this with the tweets and whatnot.  Kind of juvenile.

But as has already been pointed out several times already, Izzy and the band put aside their differences for him to fill in for Gilby in 1993.  And as recently as 2012, Izzy played with GNR in a guesting role.

So there is a history of at the very least, Axl n' Izzy being able to put their differences aside and work together again.... and again... and hopefully again in the near future.

[TheBaconman]

I've long said, in a different context, that nobody should be forced to work with someone who drives them, almost literally, insane.

And if that's the way Izzy felt, he was 100% justified for walking when he did.

And his bandmates are 100% justified for feeling that makes him a risky choice to take out on tour, especially since the relationship between the Axl/Slash/Duff was sort of untested at that point, and who knows what that interaction would become, and how it might effect Izzy.

Agree with all of this.

Axl was always, well...let's go with "difficult".  But in that summer of 1991 he was near completely unhinged.  Of course, none of us can really speak to being the biggest rock star in the world at that young age and all those expectations.

I just never understood how Izzy could leave the biggest band in the world.  For years, I sort of respected it because he never went on to do much else.  Figured the biggest of the big time just wasn't his scene.

That's why I can't figure out his angle now.  All of the sudden, he's offended?  Doesn't add up.

I can get why Izzy didn't want to tour any more.   No big deal, hire a touring rhythm player to play Izzys stuff, Izzy can play the odd show

But

What I cant get is, why would Izzy leave the partnership of the band?   That's just crazy.  He quit, left, he wasn't fired.

Similar example is with The Rolling Stones. there base player Bill stopped touring years and years ago.  But, he stayed in the band and was part of the partnership up until just recently.....

I really think Izzy quit everything because he thought the band was going to spend was to much money/loose money and he didn't want anything to do with it.....    Again just a kid making choices

[Zak Alexander]

Pretty bummed reading izzy's tweet, I think Axl will react to it in a guns show.. or maybe he'll come out and respond with a statement. I remember his interview with trunk back in 06 that there's some things that need to be shut down so that's why I think there will be a response of some kind but sucks that there seems to be bad blood between them.

[pilferk]

So how old where all the band members when the split happened and all this future touring for the UYI albums came out 26-31 years old roughly?

I am 36 now and I can tell you 10 years ago is a lot different than now.   How can you blame anyone for anything when they are that young.   Especially debating the actions of these young adults, 30 years later.

People look back at things like this band was some kind of experience group of adults, who had bee serious pros for many years.......    Its the complete opposite really

They were a bunch of kids pretty much, most of them were abusing substances, they where living together, playing local clubs, not much more than a high school education for most......

Then in a couple of years they are in the 20s, the biggest band in the world with more money than anyone!!!!    

They were still just a bunch of very young adults when they broke up..

I am sure Izzy is a lot different now, just like most people are 30 years later

Because the person in question has done literally NOTHING on the size and scale of what you're proposing SINCE then.

So what else do you have?

You're proposing that they "trust" that he's changed in the past 25 years. With no actual evidence to the contrary. To be honest, Bacon, I say that's naive.

Because I knew folks in high school who are exactly the same 30 years later.  And I know folks who are radically different.  And the % aren't as lopsided as you'd think they'd be. Trust is a hard case to make, given the evidence on the table.

Especially when coupled with how MOMUNMENTALLY important this tour was to GnR, how much money was at stake, and how little bad PR this tour could have withstood. They turned a house of cards into a fucking skyscraper, but if Izzy had signed on, and then quit just before, or even after half a dozen shows (you saw the press about bad attendance?!)....can you imagine the blowback?

Friendship is friendship and business is business.

And from Izzy's side....you know you're in. You know you could commit 100% and do every date and damn it would be fun to be back with those guys, yucking it up, righting the wrongs of mispent youth and debauchery, and putting to bed that little "what if" that might live in your soul.

But they come to you, and you feel disrespected because they're offering you "less".  And you're worth it.  You made that material, you worked your ass off for years, and beared your soul for these guys.  And now they don't seem to trust you and want contingencies, either with you as a guest or by reserving some ducats to, the gall, pay for your replacement if you flake out. As if.

Look, they're both right.  I know people want black and white.  I just don't see it.  They're both in the right, here.

Guns isn't in a position to take on what they see is a risky bet, at full price.

Izzy doesn't see the risk and feels he's entitled to a full share (whatever that is).

Fair enough.  We'll try again next tour.

[GeorgeSteele]

IMO, Izzy did himself a disservice by using the word "loot" (who uses that word anyway??)

Ha, I thought the same thing!  'Loot' mean stolen money, not a good way to refer to the hard-earned $$ fans shell out for these pricey tix.  

[pilferk]

He's always struck me as pretty laid back.  That message...didn't seem like a dude trying to set the record straight for the fans.  He seemed straight up pissed.

I'm not saying he's not.

But sometimes 140 characters of forced brevity adds context not intended.

And maybe he is a little pissed, and has a tinge of regret.  I think Izzy has some "what if" left in him, given the way he left.  And I think, knowing his zen nature, he'd like to find a way to purge it.

If that's so, I hope he gets the opportunity.  I honestly think, once this thing gets rolling, if it sustains itself, they'll have more room to be a little "nicer" in the splits going forward.  That risk, even if it blew up in them, would cause less damage.

[pilferk]

But as has already been pointed out several times already, Izzy and the band put aside their differences for him to fill in for Gilby in 1993.  And as recently as 2012, Izzy played with GNR in a guesting role.

So there is a history of at the very least, Axl n' Izzy being able to put their differences aside and work together again.... and again... and hopefully again in the near future.

I think Axl has commented (and the quote is earlier in the thread) that the reason the Izzy guest spots worked so well is that, if he shows up..GREAT! If not, the show goes on without him and they're fine.  They're not really depending on him.

I think that speaks volumes about Axl's mind set when it comes to Izzy.   He loves him, loves playing with him, but doesn't see him as being someone to rely on, night in and night out.