Axl and Duff interview this sunday for Brazilian TV (now with Izzy's response)

[TheBaconman]

"And with Izzy... that's just something that I can't really.... describe. That's to say, I don't really know what to say about Izzy. It's like you could have a conversation and think it's one way and the next day it's another way. And I'm not trying to take any shots at Izzy, it's just that his thing is kind of his thing. Whatever that is, y'know."

I don't think that answer gives any more clarity about why Izzy didn't participate in any way.  Is he saying they asked and then Izzy flaked out or they didn't bother asking him at all because they expected him to flake?  I would guess the first, but I really have no idea based on this.

I guess what he said is that Izzy's Izzy.

He hasn't toured in years. He's done guest spots with GN'R in the past, but that was it. He didn't do the full tour, or the full shows.....


We don't know if he agreed or not, and then changed his mind. Or if it's simply a matter of them not wanting to fully depend on his participation to do the full tour.



/jarmo

Or the money wasn't right for Izzy.  

I guess he is the only one that can say for sure.  It seems like they did reach out to him.  Or else I think we would of gotten an answer like.  "We just wanted to focus on this group right now, perhaps in the future we will reach out to Izzy."

lol looks like TheBaconman was right, once again

[TheBaconman]

Offering Duff more money is a an absolute fkn major slap in the face if this is the case,Izzy along with Axl was the main force behind GnR ,after reading Slashes book Axl was very fond of his contracts and basically relegating others in the band to hired hand's,Izzy was right to turn it down as founding member and main songwriter he deserves an equal slice of the pie  at the  very least.

Like any other job you get paid what you are worth.

So there is still a legal partnership between Axl, Slash and Duff....

Axl owns the name GNR.....

When Izzy was still in the band he was paid as an employee for performances.

When Izzy came back to do a few shows with Axl a few years ago he was paid as an employee for performances.   

Izzy gets paid huge still from past royalties from this band.

But from me judging from that tweet, he would of wanted to tour and perform with this band and get paid like he was in still sorta partnership with the band.   The partnership he walked away from years ago.....

[pilferk]

In fairness Izzy left because he couldn't handle Axl's behavior ,showing up late or not at all ,attacking fan's,inciting riots ,being a control freak the list is endless,he never flaked he left the band when the  over blown soap opera got way out of hand , he just wanted to get up and play as did Duff and Slash but they put up with Axl's behavior because they didn't have the balls to walk away and  maybe wanted to see it through until the wheels fell off which they did.

In fairness, Izzy took his ball and went home...about 15 minutes before the start of "the big game".

He walked away, with almost zero notice. And I get that the preferred narrative for everything that has ever gone wrong, ever, is that it's all Axls fault.

But in the end, it doesn't even matter why, or whether he though it was justified. He flaked by the nature of the WAY HE DID IT.  He didn't just leave Axl in the lurch.  He left the band, the promoters, they fans, the label....everyone that was sort of depending on him...at pretty much the last possible minute.  I'm sorry...that is going to make your band mates question how dependable you are when going into a (potentially) similar situation.  

As an Izzy fan, you can take issue with that term "flaked", I guess. Choose another that conveys the same meaning with a connotation more to your liking. But it's what he did.

So, with a great unknown as to how things were going to go, on the road, til they actually got out there (and I think they seemed to go well)...whats to say that Izzy doesn't get through the first show, face some adversity or tension, and then decides to walk away again?  What assurances do you have that Izzy doesn't just decide he'd rather be racing Dune Buggies in Malibu?

Again, I love Izzy.  But history is history.....and I think it's telling that some folks want to give SOME members of the band the benefit of the doubt, and leeway for past actions, but hold others accountable FOREVER for theirs.

I'm 100% OK if you disagree with any of that...but to me: friendship is friendship and buisiness is business.  And it would be bad business to give an even split to a guy who, in a similar business relationship, had burned you before.  You find a way to hedge your bets.  Sounds like maybe they tried to do that, and Izzy wasn't having it.

[TheBaconman]

In fairness Izzy left because he couldn't handle Axl's behavior ,showing up late or not at all ,attacking fan's,inciting riots ,being a control freak the list is endless,he never flaked he left the band when the  over blown soap opera got way out of hand , he just wanted to get up and play as did Duff and Slash but they put up with Axl's behavior because they didn't have the balls to walk away and  maybe wanted to see it through until the wheels fell off which they did.

In fairness, Izzy took his ball and went home...about 15 minutes before the start of "the big game".

He walked away, with almost zero notice. And I get that the preferred narrative for everything that has ever gone wrong, ever, is that it's all Axls fault.

But in the end, it doesn't even matter why, or whether he though it was justified. He flaked by the nature of the WAY HE DID IT.  He didn't just leave Axl in the lurch.  He left the band, the promoters, they fans, the label....everyone that was sort of depending on him...at pretty much the last possible minute.  I'm sorry...that is going to make your band mates question how dependable you are when going into a (potentially) similar situation.  

As an Izzy fan, you can take issue with that term "flaked", I guess. Choose another that conveys the same meaning with a connotation more to your liking. But it's what he did.

So, with a great unknown as to how things were going to go, on the road, til they actually got out there (and I think they seemed to go well)...whats to say that Izzy doesn't get through the first show, face some adversity or tension, and then decides to walk away again?  What assurances do you have that Izzy doesn't just decide he'd rather be racing Dune Buggies in Malibu?

Again, I love Izzy.  But history is history.....and I think it's telling that some folks want to give SOME members of the band the benefit of the doubt, and leeway for past actions, but hold others accountable FOREVER for theirs.

I'm 100% OK if you disagree with any of that...but to me: friendship is friendship and buisiness is business.  And it would be bad business to give an even split to a guy who, in a similar business relationship, had burned you before.  You find a way to hedge your bets.  Sounds like maybe they tried to do that, and Izzy wasn't having it.

And ultimately.   Why should they split the loot?   Because izzy wants too? Haha. Ok then....

They are playintg sold out huge shows some cities multiple shows.   Hardly any promotion at all and they are racking in the money on there own!   

What value would there be in splitting up the loot even more?   Sure there would be value in having izzy play and I would just love it.   But I can see why Axl slash and duff wouldn't want to split up any more money.   They don't have too!

[pilferk]

And ultimately.   Why should they split the loot?   Because izzy wants too? Haha. Ok then....

They are playintg sold out huge shows some cities multiple shows.   Hardly any promotion at all and they are racking in the money on there own!   

What value would there be in splitting up the loot even more?   Sure there would be value in having izzy play and I would just love it.   But I can see why Axl slash and duff wouldn't want to split up any more money.   They don't have too!

To be "nice", I guess?  And I DO think there's some value in that, which is why you offer him a spot, at a cost that makes sense when you consider all the variables, even if it means the "principal players" each end up taking a little bit less. And he likely deserves a nice share of the ducats, too.  You want to fairly acknowledge his contributions to the material, and the history of the band.

But its a fair point, too. Izzy's biggest contributions, IMHO, were not on stage.  They were (and again, totally invaluable) in the studio.

His name would add value to the tour, but..you're right.  When you did the kind of numbers they ended up doing...how many more tickets does adding Izzy sell?  How much more revenue does he add per show?  If you're looking at it from a purely mercenary, numbers point of view....you're dead on.  When you're 95% sold out, sell over a million tickets, and pull in over 116 million in revenue...you're approaching a point where adding Izzy actually isn't CAPABLE (given capacity) of adding enough to "pay" for his share.  And I totally acknowledge that's a bastard, cavalier, mercenary, crappy way to look at it.  But it bears at least some consideration in all this.

Again, I think BOTH sides are "right", here.  Axl/Slash/Duff, maybe, view it as Izzy being Izzy, both on negotiations and in terms of potential reliability to show up and stick with the whole tour.  I think Izzy views it as "I was an equal contributor to the creation of 90% of the material that's going to be played during the tour...doesn't that, in itself, warrant a more equal share of the loot".  And again, that's a valid POV because Izzy knows his mind and commitment level.  The issue is: The people he's negotiating with don't.

So you get an impasse.  It sorta stinks for those that want to see Izzy up there (and I count myself in that number), but it is what it is.  I'm not sure why people want to blame either one, or need to take sides.  I think BOTH POVs are valid...sometimes that's just the way it works.

[gcluskey]

I was disappointed when I read that Tweet this morning. I was hoping Izzy's non-involvement wasn't gonna be about money. I don't think an equal split of the money should be paid to Izzy if he was going to just make a guest appearance. I can't see him taking Richard's place either to do all the Chinese Democracy material either. I understand how important he was to GnR in the past and I'd love to see him perform with the guys again but what are they supposed to do now? They can't risk letting Richard go and taking Izzy back full time when he might decide it's not for him again. It's impossibly to please everybody

[GeorgeSteele]

I really don't think this has anything to do with how much of a 'draw' Izzy would have been for the tours.  Slash is obviously a tremendous draw, but would Axl have him back on board if he felt he could not rely on him? 

Seeing the greater context in all this, Axl's quote now reads to me as saying that, Izzy being who he is, is not someone who he can be partners with again.  He can pay him to play when/if he shows up, but that's it.  Another Axl quote from 2009 sheds some more light on Axl's thinking:

"The Izzy bit was fun -- and also fun because we didn't have to rely on him in any way, which is how he prefers things and works better for everyone. That said, you never knew if Izzy would be there or not or if he'd remember the song or decide to leave early. It didn't cause any problems, because we were doing our show regardless and didn't have to depend on anything, but it did open everyone's eyes a bit and blow minds." 

[Mike McKagan]

Finally, some good old fashioned GN'R drama! Things had started getting a bit "kumbaya" for my taste.  

[pilferk]

I really don't think this has anything to do with how much of a 'draw' Izzy would have been for the tours.  Slash is obviously a tremendous draw, but would Axl have him back on board if he felt he could not rely on him? 

I largely agree.

BUT, on the flip side, if they felt having Izzy along would, potentially, increase ticket sales and revenue by...IDK...25%?, I think there's a better case to be made for an "equal share". You know? It would give Izzy more leverage and Axl/Slash/Duff more impetus to cave to that request.

And again, I acknowledge that's a purely mercenary way to look at it, and it's likely not the only consideration, or the only POV, that was consdiered. At all. It would do Izzy a disservice, IMHO, to ONLY consider that bit.

But it doesn't make it less true.

Seeing the greater context in all this, Axl's quote now reads to me as saying that, Izzy being who he is, is not someone who he can be partners with again.  He can pay him to play when/if he shows up, but that's it.  Another Axl quote from 2009 sheds some more light on Axl's thinking:

"The Izzy bit was fun -- and also fun because we didn't have to rely on him in any way, which is how he prefers things and works better for everyone. That said, you never knew if Izzy would be there or not or if he'd remember the song or decide to leave early. It didn't cause any problems, because we were doing our show regardless and didn't have to depend on anything, but it did open everyone's eyes a bit and blow minds." 

I think that sums it up, well.  Maybe not in that concrete a way as to rule it out, forever.  But I think there's some reticence, both by the band as it exists, and "the money guys" involved, to depend on Izzy (with compensation consideration based off that).

[TheBaconman]

I really don't think this has anything to do with how much of a 'draw' Izzy would have been for the tours.  Slash is obviously a tremendous draw, but would Axl have him back on board if he felt he could not rely on him? 

Seeing the greater context in all this, Axl's quote now reads to me as saying that, Izzy being who he is, is not someone who he can be partners with again.  He can pay him to play when/if he shows up, but that's it.  Another Axl quote from 2009 sheds some more light on Axl's thinking:

"The Izzy bit was fun -- and also fun because we didn't have to rely on him in any way, which is how he prefers things and works better for everyone. That said, you never knew if Izzy would be there or not or if he'd remember the song or decide to leave early. It didn't cause any problems, because we were doing our show regardless and didn't have to depend on anything, but it did open everyone's eyes a bit and blow minds." 

Well really its all about how much value/reward/risk Izzy brings.

If there was some sorta revolt from fans, when this 3 guy reunion was announced.  If they could sell as many tickets as they did.  If they didn't get as many rave reviews as they did.  I am very sure they would of reached out to Izzy and tried to make something work

What it seems to me is.  They offered Izzy a deal.  He didn't like it.  They moved on.....  And were very, very successful.  

[pilferk]

Finally, some good old fashioned GN'R drama! Things had started getting a bit "kumbaya" for my taste.  

It's funny...I don't see why people are getting so worked up about it.

Two sides have different, equally valid, point of views.  They couldn't come to an agreement.  They both present their POV in separate statements that are different, but totally reconcile with what we know.

So...where's the drama?

At this point, it's just about jumping on a side for shits and grins.

I choose no side.

[Executioner]

Some people on here going on about Izzy's unreliability have very short memories, but open your eyes everyone knows who the most unreliable singer in history is .OK this tour so far he ain't stepped out of line ,but is wasn't so long ago he cancelled an entire European tour because he bizzarely claimed he never knew of it's existence until he saw it on the internet.

[Mike McKagan]

Finally, some good old fashioned GN'R drama! Things had started getting a bit "kumbaya" for my taste.  

It's funny...I don't see why people are getting so worked up about it.

Two sides have different, equally valid, point of views.  They couldn't come to an agreement.  They both present their POV in separate statements that are different, but totally reconcile with what we know.

So...where's the drama?

At this point, it's just about jumping on a side for shits and grins.

I choose no side.

Yeah, I can't say I actually care much either. I got to see a helluva show in Nashville this summer. It'd be cool to see Izzy and Steven both come out for a few songs at some point in the future, but the reality is that even if it happens, it's not like they're suddenly the GN'R from 1987. Time marches on, things change, and I try not to get too greedy or controlling about what GN'R is/was/should be. 

But, a long string of mostly contented posts don't make for a very exciting discussion thread. 

[TheBaconman]

I would pay good money for a one off PPV, with all the original AFD members, but also with some of CD era guys, buckethead and robin etc.....

Pay Izzy good money for this one off show....

Make a great blue ray out of this...   

Have it in front of a huge crowd

[GeorgeSteele]

I really don't think this has anything to do with how much of a 'draw' Izzy would have been for the tours.  Slash is obviously a tremendous draw, but would Axl have him back on board if he felt he could not rely on him? 

Seeing the greater context in all this, Axl's quote now reads to me as saying that, Izzy being who he is, is not someone who he can be partners with again.  He can pay him to play when/if he shows up, but that's it.  Another Axl quote from 2009 sheds some more light on Axl's thinking:

"The Izzy bit was fun -- and also fun because we didn't have to rely on him in any way, which is how he prefers things and works better for everyone. That said, you never knew if Izzy would be there or not or if he'd remember the song or decide to leave early. It didn't cause any problems, because we were doing our show regardless and didn't have to depend on anything, but it did open everyone's eyes a bit and blow minds." 

Well really its all about how much value/reward/risk Izzy brings.

If there was some sorta revolt from fans, when this 3 guy reunion was announced.  If they could sell as many tickets as they did.  If they didn't get as many rave reviews as they did.  I am very sure they would of reached out to Izzy and tried to make something work

What it seems to me is.  They offered Izzy a deal.  He didn't like it.  They moved on.....  And were very, very successful.  

First off, nice call.  You nailed it before Izzy tweeted that he wasn't happy with the money.

Would have been a big risk IMO.  If Izzy wanted in as an equal partner and the full-time responsibilities that come with that, would they have kept Richard?  I have a hard time seeing Slash wanting to play with 2 other guitarists.  So you have the possibility of permanently losing Richard, but even if they did go with 3 full-time guitarists, if Izzy bails mid-tour, how does the band suddenly adjust to a 2-guitar setup?  Also, would promoters negotiate penalty provisions if a band member leaves?  Plus, the press would have scorched them.  Again, even if Izzy had the star power of Slash, I don't think Axl would have done it.  I believe he would have agreed to take less money and make Izzy an equal partner if he knew he could rely on Izzy the same way he can with Slash and Duff.  

Also, Izzy left the partnership and was likely paid back then for forfeiting his share of the partnership.  To get back into an established partnership, you have to buy in, you can't just walk in after 25 years and get your same share back for nothing.  

[GeorgeSteele]

Some people on here going on about Izzy's unreliability have very short memories, but open your eyes everyone knows who the most unreliable singer in history is .OK this tour so far he ain't stepped out of line ,but is wasn't so long ago he cancelled an entire European tour because he bizzarely claimed he never knew of it's existence until he saw it on the internet.

That's a fair point, but it comes down to who has more to lose.  What is Izzy risking if Axl goes retro with his tour behavior?  Izzy's life goes on the same regardless. 

[pilferk]

Some people on here going on about Izzy's unreliability have very short memories, but open your eyes everyone knows who the most unreliable singer in history is .OK this tour so far he ain't stepped out of line ,but is wasn't so long ago he cancelled an entire European tour because he bizzarely claimed he never knew of it's existence until he saw it on the internet.

Wasn't so long as in...15+ years.

Again, you can't have it both ways.  You can't take the piss out of Axl, and then plead Izzy's case.  Or you can, but it's hypocritical.

Izzy did what he did.

And in this case, Axl's reliability (which has been pretty much unassailable for about 5 year or so...so he HAS proven otherwise, but whatever) has no bearing.  Izzy was potentially joining an existing construct with Axl, Slash, and Duff...not vice versa.

You might not like it, but it is what it is.

[pilferk]

Finally, some good old fashioned GN'R drama! Things had started getting a bit "kumbaya" for my taste.  

It's funny...I don't see why people are getting so worked up about it.

Two sides have different, equally valid, point of views.  They couldn't come to an agreement.  They both present their POV in separate statements that are different, but totally reconcile with what we know.

So...where's the drama?

At this point, it's just about jumping on a side for shits and grins.

I choose no side.

Yeah, I can't say I actually care much either. I got to see a helluva show in Nashville this summer. It'd be cool to see Izzy and Steven both come out for a few songs at some point in the future, but the reality is that even if it happens, it's not like they're suddenly the GN'R from 1987. Time marches on, things change, and I try not to get too greedy or controlling about what GN'R is/was/should be. 

But, a long string of mostly contented posts don't make for a very exciting discussion thread. 

Anarchist!

   

[GNR4LIFEJD]

I have said it before and I will say it again this band is 100X better with Richard in it then Izzy. I understand this tour has been somewhat of a nostalgia tour but at the same time with the added CD songs Richard is the much better fit going forward. While we should all embrace the past GNR I am also looking at what is best potential going forward Izzy is not part of that in my mind.

[ITARocker]

Just for the money. "The rocker " is just a greedy crybaby. Do u really think u deserve the same amount of money? really? U left by fuckin choice don't giving a fuck and now u want the money. I think adler deserves more money than you...