Call for a second EU referendum for the UK

[AtariLegend]

Should be pretty self explanatory.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

[Hellraiser Fraser]

That's NOT how DEMOCRACY works, majority wanted out, they win, legal vote, get over it and move on. I reckon it will start other in/out referendrums across some parts of Europe after uk leaves and is seen to do ok.

[AtariLegend]

"majority"? Half the country not voting for it, isn't a majority.

3/4 of people my age were against this, the turnout among the younger generations was not that high.

It was a LEAVE campaign based upon propaganda, lies and xenophobia. You know what one of the most searched for things the next day was in the UK? "What is the EU?".

2/4 countries in the UK did not for this.

Oh and as for legal vote, this was an advisory referendum. Not actually legal until the Government starts the process to leave, which it hasn't done so yet.

[rebelhipi]

You got my sympathies atari  .
I wish this would go thru

[Voodoochild]

Yeah, I totally agree with a second EU referendum. Hope it works.

[Princess Leia]

No, no more referendums. The UK wants to leave yeah please leave as son as posible. And don't let the door hit you on your way out

Whatever happens now in the UK it's their problem. I'm in Spain and I like the EU. But if others don't like it I won't force them to stay

I think it is insane what the UK is doing but it's their country and their future. If they fuck up. Well that would be their fault. I'm tired of British populist politicians using the European Union as a scapegoat instead of taking responsibility for their own wrong doing.

[norway]

Norway voted no twice, but we got smt called 'the eea-agreement' which basicly makes us members.

[Hellraiser Fraser]

Atari legend, afraid your wrong, it wasn't half for and half against, it was 52% v 48% of over 32 million, on basis of a simple majority, just like the Scottish referendum, majority whether by 1 vote or near 1.3 Million votes as in this case. same mechanism, the public have spoken and democracy says the majority gets its way.
      45% of certain other eu countries want a referendum and the eu is in total crisis, so it may be a good thing in the medium term, Spain and Greece have massive youth unemployment and young people there despair of eu policies, who knows, but if you want democracy you have to accept the majority view however much politicians on all sides exaggerate claims before the vote. Chill and enjoy the ride.

[rebelhipi]

No, no more referendums. The UK wants to leave yeah please leave as son as posible. And don't let the door hit you on your way out

Whatever happens now in the UK it's their problem. I'm in Spain and I like the EU. But if others don't like it I won't force them to stay

I think it is insane what the UK is doing but it's their country and their future. If they fuck up. Well that would be their fault. I'm tired of British populist politicians using the European Union as a scapegoat instead of taking responsibility for their own wrong doing.

I agree, that they made their own shit. But 48% of the country, vast majority of voters under 40, scotland ect voted to stay.

I think its kinda unfair to let some political party whos campaign was lead by lies and propaganda, ruin the lives of millions of innocent Brits. And even many of the people who voted to leave, have changed their minds after realizing what they have done.

What is done is done, clearly leaving half of the country unsatisfied is not the right answer either.

If the UK, is really leaving, they should get on with it, as fast as possible.

[AtariLegend]

Atari legend, afraid your wrong, it wasn't half for and half against, it was 52% v 48% of over 32 million, on basis of a simple majority, just like the Scottish referendum, majority whether by 1 vote or near 1.3 Million votes as in this case. same mechanism, the public have spoken and democracy says the majority gets its way.
      45% of certain other eu countries want a referendum and the eu is in total crisis, so it may be a good thing in the medium term, Spain and Greece have massive youth unemployment and young people there despair of eu policies, who knows, but if you want democracy you have to accept the majority view however much politicians on all sides exaggerate claims before the vote. Chill and enjoy the ride.

It was less than a 4% difference and there's a bit of a difference between going for major changes to just staying.

Scotland, London, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar all chose to stay by significant margins, it's also important to take into context that at the current rate there won't be much of a United Kingdom left in the coming years. Scotland at least is almost certainly gone after this.

The UK btw is not Spain or Greece. It's 13% youth unemployment here. Not even comparable.

That's before getting into Murdochs propaganda in the media he owns. Nevermind the ridiculous statements/pledges that the LEAVE campaigners made, then backtracked on afterwards.

[GeorgeSteele]

While they're at it, how about a petition for a do-over against Iceland?      

[Dr. Blutarsky]

  Ive never heard of a do over because less than half did not get what they wanted after having a vote on it.  Granted I'm watching this from the other side of the pond, but it strikes me that the majority of people in the UK were not happy with the EU for a variety of reasons, one being the EU imposing  rules and regulations the British people and they never had a voice in deciding or voting for these rules. 

[AtariLegend]

Reality Check: Have Leave campaigners changed their tune?

The Reality Check team looks at some of the claims and promises made during the campaign by Leave campaigners who now appear to have modified their positions.



Immigration

The campaign claim: Immigration levels could be controlled if the UK left the EU. This would relieve pressure on public services.
The current claim: Immigration levels can't be radically reduced by leaving the EU. Fears about immigration did not influence the way people voted.

Reality Check verdict: During the campaign, some Leave campaigners sent a clear message that the referendum was about controlling immigration. Some are now being more nuanced, saying the UK's decision to leave the EU would not guarantee a significant decrease in immigration levels.

Immigration was the key issue of the EU referendum campaign, and Vote Leave's focus on it was a key part of their strategy.
One of the main claims of the campaign centred around control of immigration levels.

Responding to the latest Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures, which showed that overall net migration stands at 333,000, MEP Nigel Farage said: "Mass immigration is still hopelessly out of control and set to get worse if we remain inside the EU."
Though Mr Farage was not part of the official Vote Leave campaign but campaigned in favour of leaving the EU, similar claims were later echoed by Vote Leave campaigner Gisela Stuart.

She said voting to remain meant there would be "no control" over migration from the EU, "no matter how great the pressure on schools, hospitals and housing becomes or how much wages in our poorest communities are pushed down".
Similarly, leading pro-Leave campaigner and Tory leader front runner Boris Johnson said that the only solution to the scale of immigration which the UK was facing, was to leave the EU.

He claimed a vote to stay in the union would mean people "kissing goodbye permanently to control of immigration".
The Leave campaign also repeatedly linked EU migration with pressure on public services.

On the 20 May, Vote Leave produced a document which it claimed outlined the pressure that migration from the European Union would put on the NHS - a 28% to 57% increase in demand for accident and emergency services.
As we discovered, an increasing population would put additional demand on A&E but the extent of that increase had not been demonstrated.

But in an article published in the Daily Telegraph on Monday, Mr Johnson denied a victory for leaving the EU could be linked to immigration.
He wrote: "It is said that those who voted Leave were mainly driven by anxieties about immigration. I do not believe that is so."
And speaking to the BBC's Newsnight programme on Saturday, MEP Daniel Hannan insisted the public had not been misled over how much control the country would have over immigration post-Brexit.

In a heated exchange with Evan Davis, he said: "We never said there was going to be some radical decline ... we want a measure of control".
"Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the EU, they are going to be disappointed."




Contributions to the EU budget

The campaign claim: We send ?350m a week to Brussels, which could be spent on the NHS instead.

The current claim: The claim was a mistake, and we will not be able to spend that much extra on the NHS.

Reality Check verdict: Some of those who campaigned for Leave are now distancing themselves from this claim. Some have gone as far as admitting that it had been a mistake.
One of the most controversial claims of the campaign was that the UK sends ?350m a week (or ?50m a day) to Brussels, which could be spent on the NHS instead.

Vote Leave's Gisela Stuart was among those to make the claim, saying "Every week we send ?350m to Brussels. I'd rather that we control how to spend that money, and if I had that control I would spend it on the NHS."
Many bodies including the UK Statistics Authority pointed out that we do not send that much a week because the rebate is deducted before any money is spent.

Over the weekend, Nigel Farage said making the claim had been "a mistake".



On Sunday's Andrew Marr Show, Iain Duncan Smith was shown a Vote Leave poster saying: "Let's give our NHS the ?350m the EU takes every week," but he denied that promise had been made and said instead that the NHS would receive "the lion's share" of money that would no longer be spent on the EU.

The actual amount sent to Brussels each week in 2014 was ?276m, a little over ?100m of which is spent on things in the UK such as subsidising farmers and funding research, which the Leave campaign also promised to continue funding until 2020.



The single market

The campaign claim: Some on the Leave side suggested the UK does not need preferential access to the single market.

The current claim: The UK should get preferential access to the single market but will not have to accept freedom of movement to get it.

Reality Check verdict: The position has shifted from claims the UK could trade under World Trade Organisation rules to one which suggests the UK will continue to have preferential access to the single market, but at the same time having some control over immigration levels.

During the campaign, some Leave campaigners said that the UK outside of the EU would not need preferential access to the single market and would just trade under World Trade Organization rules.
This was the basis of research by Economists for Brexit, who said the UK should unilaterally remove all tariffs on imports.

But writing in the Telegraph on Monday, Boris Johnson quoted German employers' organisation the BDI as saying there would continue to be free trade and access to the single market.
The BDI later denied this.
If the UK wanted to retain preferential access to the single market, many European politicians say it would have to continue to accept freedom of movement.
Boris Johnson said that British people would continue to be able to live, work and study in the EU, while at the same time the UK would be able to introduce a points-based system to control migration.

Leader of the House of Commons Chris Grayling said that we would be able to have a free trade agreement with the EU while at the same time controlling the flow of people coming into the country.
The UK can certainly aim to secure such a deal.
But no country so far has managed a deal that allows full preferential access to the single market without having to accept freedom of movement.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36641390

[Princess Leia]

So now this fuckin' Brexit bullshit has become Game Of Thrones   

[pilferk]

  Ive never heard of a do over because less than half did not get what they wanted after having a vote on it.  Granted I'm watching this from the other side of the pond, but it strikes me that the majority of people in the UK were not happy with the EU for a variety of reasons, one being the EU imposing  rules and regulations the British people and they never had a voice in deciding or voting for these rules. 

It happens, even here in the states (probably a lot more, here in the states, actually, than you realize).

Local governments OFTEN have advisory referendums.  That, really, is what this was (on a grander scale) in the UK. It's totally non-binding for Parliament...they can choose to act on it, or not.

Here's a good example, though it's slightly different: We have 2 elementary schools and a dwindling population of youngsters.  This past year, our Board of Selectman held an advisory vote on whether to merge the 2 schools, and close the older of the two, entirely, as a cost saving measure.

The town voted no...they wanted the school to remain open.  However, as an advisory vote, the Selectman were not bound to it.

So they rolled out a budget and plan to close the school anyway.  There was an uproar (as you can imagine) from the voters.

When the town budget vote (which IS binding) came up, the voters declined to accept it, based wholly on the school closing being in the budget.  The Selectman were then forced to add it BACK to the budget (or face continued defeats of our town budget) in order to get it passed.  They added it back, and the town approved the budget. That bit was binding..now they HAVE to keep the school open for at least another year.

We have, in the past, had multiple advisory votes on things like...building a water treatment plant, town garage, or parks/rec expenditures. As costs, projections, and new information comes to light, the Selectman look for more input from their constituency. They will often ask the SAME question (and sometimes act on the advisory, sometimes not).  It's really NOT all that odd for a non-binding advisory issue, no matter what the outcome of the previous "advice" was.

[AtariLegend]

So now this fuckin' Brexit bullshit has become Game Of Thrones   

Gove is a real life Littlefinger.

[Princess Leia]

So now this fuckin' Brexit bullshit has become Game Of Thrones   

Gove is a real life Littlefinger.

You are probably right. However I think Gove, Cameron, Farage and Johnson are more like a real life Battle Of The Bastards

 

[DeN]

Farage admitted that he lied about the EU money going to the NHS and
that only fact makes me think it would not be anti-democratic to revote.

but well, not going to happen anyway.

I just hope Europe will be strong. the level of hate is really high in the world these days.
we need to be careful.