2016 NFL Season

[faldor]

Can someone explain to me why Dallas would take an RB at #4?  A top 5 pick? REALLY??  I'm baffled (and I'm a Giants fan).  They needed help in the secondary (a lot), there were better options to be had in that type of player (like, for example Ramsey from Florida State), and as good as Elliot is, he's not GOOD ENOUGH to be worth a top 5 pick compared to what Dallas already has.

Pretty much all the picks in the first round made sense (even the Giants...who ended up just taking the best player left on their board, rather than reaching to fill a need).  But this one made me scratch my head.  In today's NFL...taking an RB in the top 10, even, seems like reach, and a wasted pick.

Absolutely. I know they needed a RB, but with their O-line as good as it is, they could've settled for a steady veteran who could easily top 1,000 yards if he remains healthy. Their lack of a star RB wasn't the reason they sucked last year. If Romo stays healthy they're right in it. RB's are secondary these days. It's a passing league, why waste money or resources at RB? Doesn't make sense to me either. I'm sure they could use help on the defensive side of the ball.

With all that being said, Elliott could very well win ROY honors next year, but that still wouldn't justify the pick in my mind. How much of an impact will he make on that team? How much better does he make them? I don't think he moves the needle all that much.

Lots of "experts" criticizing the Giants pick too. Does seem like a bit of a reach, but if they loved the guy more than other teams, that's all that matters. Until/unless he's declared a bust eventually of course.

[Bodhi]

Can someone explain to me why Dallas would take an RB at #4?  A top 5 pick? REALLY??  I'm baffled (and I'm a Giants fan).  They needed help in the secondary (a lot), there were better options to be had in that type of player (like, for example Ramsey from Florida State), and as good as Elliot is, he's not GOOD ENOUGH to be worth a top 5 pick compared to what Dallas already has.

Pretty much all the picks in the first round made sense (even the Giants...who ended up just taking the best player left on their board, rather than reaching to fill a need).  But this one made me scratch my head.  In today's NFL...taking an RB in the top 10, even, seems like reach, and a wasted pick.

Yes, taking a running back that high in 2016 is very strange.  Running backs taken that high in the draft in recent years are a who's who of busts and players that never reached that potential the team was looking for.  Adrian Peterson is the one exception and the Vikings haven't won anything with him either.  The rule changes the past decade have made this a pass happy league.  I feel with the way the game is played now you can find a decent RB anywhere, you certainly don't use a top 10 pick on one.  I feel the same way about wide receivers. 

I am a believer in building the lines, filling a glaring need,  or taking the best player left on the board, usually in that order.  Dallas didn't do any of those things.  It's a wonder that this team has been stuck in no mans land the last 20 years.  Not bad enough to completely reboot and get a great franchise changing draft pick and not good enough to win anything.  The Giants are my NFC team, so I am not complaining.

[pilferk]

Can someone explain to me why Dallas would take an RB at #4?  A top 5 pick? REALLY??  I'm baffled (and I'm a Giants fan).  They needed help in the secondary (a lot), there were better options to be had in that type of player (like, for example Ramsey from Florida State), and as good as Elliot is, he's not GOOD ENOUGH to be worth a top 5 pick compared to what Dallas already has.

Pretty much all the picks in the first round made sense (even the Giants...who ended up just taking the best player left on their board, rather than reaching to fill a need).  But this one made me scratch my head.  In today's NFL...taking an RB in the top 10, even, seems like reach, and a wasted pick.

Absolutely. I know they needed a RB, but with their O-line as good as it is, they could've settled for a steady veteran who could easily top 1,000 yards if he remains healthy. Their lack of a star RB wasn't the reason they sucked last year. If Romo stays healthy they're right in it. RB's are secondary these days. It's a passing league, why waste money or resources at RB? Doesn't make sense to me either. I'm sure they could use help on the defensive side of the ball.

With all that being said, Elliott could very well win ROY honors next year, but that still wouldn't justify the pick in my mind. How much of an impact will he make on that team? How much better does he make them? I don't think he moves the needle all that much.

Lots of "experts" criticizing the Giants pick too. Does seem like a bit of a reach, but if they loved the guy more than other teams, that's all that matters. Until/unless he's declared a bust eventually of course.

Yeah, i'm not IN LOVE with the giants pick, but i understand it: the guys they had wanted were gone, before they picked, so they went with the highest guy on their board vs a specific need. 

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Tampa took a kicker, wait, what ? Who takes a kicker on their 1st pick 

[JAEBALL]

Can someone explain to me why Dallas would take an RB at #4?  A top 5 pick? REALLY??  I'm baffled (and I'm a Giants fan).  They needed help in the secondary (a lot), there were better options to be had in that type of player (like, for example Ramsey from Florida State), and as good as Elliot is, he's not GOOD ENOUGH to be worth a top 5 pick compared to what Dallas already has.

Pretty much all the picks in the first round made sense (even the Giants...who ended up just taking the best player left on their board, rather than reaching to fill a need).  But this one made me scratch my head.  In today's NFL...taking an RB in the top 10, even, seems like reach, and a wasted pick.

Absolutely. I know they needed a RB, but with their O-line as good as it is, they could've settled for a steady veteran who could easily top 1,000 yards if he remains healthy. Their lack of a star RB wasn't the reason they sucked last year. If Romo stays healthy they're right in it. RB's are secondary these days. It's a passing league, why waste money or resources at RB? Doesn't make sense to me either. I'm sure they could use help on the defensive side of the ball.

With all that being said, Elliott could very well win ROY honors next year, but that still wouldn't justify the pick in my mind. How much of an impact will he make on that team? How much better does he make them? I don't think he moves the needle all that much.

Lots of "experts" criticizing the Giants pick too. Does seem like a bit of a reach, but if they loved the guy more than other teams, that's all that matters. Until/unless he's declared a bust eventually of course.

Yeah, i'm not IN LOVE with the giants pick, but i understand it: the guys they had wanted were gone, before they picked, so they went with the highest guy on their board vs a specific need. 

Supposedly the Jets offered their 2 and a 6 to move up to ten for Tunsil... Reese said no...

Which in my opinion was a mistake. Of course if Eli Apple is an all pro... but unfortunately Jerry's track record in the draft outside of Odell is quite terrible.

[JAEBALL]

Tampa took a kicker, wait, what ? Who takes a kicker on their 1st pick 

It wasn't their first pick... but still...

The kicking game is more important these days... but I still think its crazy that they traded up in the draft to do that... not good enough of a team to splurge on luxury such as that.

[pilferk]

Not that anyone should be surprised by this, but...Brady's appeal has been denied to be heard by the appeals court, effectively denying the appeal, itself.

He COULD appeal to SCOTUS and try to get an injunction.  I would find it very hard to believe the Supremes would pick this up, given it has limited (if any) constitutional relation.

[faldor]

Not that anyone should be surprised by this, but...Brady's appeal has been denied to be heard by the appeals court, effectively denying the appeal, itself.

He COULD appeal to SCOTUS and try to get an injunction.  I would find it very hard to believe the Supremes would pick this up, given it has limited (if any) constitutional relation.

I imagine they'll continue the appeal process. The NFLPA is not about to admit defeat and bow down to the NFL. This isn't even about Brady anymore, never mind PSI and deflated footballs. This is about the NFLPA's perception that the NFL abuses its power, among other things. It's likely they lose in the end, but I expect them to exhaust all the options that are at their disposal.

[tim_m]

Not that anyone should be surprised by this, but...Brady's appeal has been denied to be heard by the appeals court, effectively denying the appeal, itself.

He COULD appeal to SCOTUS and try to get an injunction.  I would find it very hard to believe the Supremes would pick this up, given it has limited (if any) constitutional relation.

He needs to just take his punishment like a man and stop acting like a baby. The SCOTUS has more important shit to worry about then his bruised ego for cheating at a game.

[pilferk]

I imagine they'll continue the appeal process. The NFLPA is not about to admit defeat and bow down to the NFL. This isn't even about Brady anymore, never mind PSI and deflated footballs. This is about the NFLPA's perception that the NFL abuses its power, among other things. It's likely they lose in the end, but I expect them to exhaust all the options that are at their disposal.

They have exactly one avenue of appeal left: The Supreme Court.

And the supremes get a little testy when you try to appeal things that have no (or very little) constitutional relation.  The NFLPA would do well to tread lightly.  It may behoove them to give up the ghost, rather than trying to walk that path.

And if they DO appeal, first off...I don't see the Supremes issuing an injunction while they decide whether or not to hear it.  And second...I doubt they'd hear it.  If the NFLPA doesn't like the power that resides with the commissioners office for their sport, they should address it in the CB next time...and not try to make the courts bargain for them.

At this point, it's time for Brady and the NFLPA to buck up, take the suspension, bitch about it loudly, and put this on "the list" for the next negotiations.

[faldor]

I imagine they'll continue the appeal process. The NFLPA is not about to admit defeat and bow down to the NFL. This isn't even about Brady anymore, never mind PSI and deflated footballs. This is about the NFLPA's perception that the NFL abuses its power, among other things. It's likely they lose in the end, but I expect them to exhaust all the options that are at their disposal.

They have exactly one avenue of appeal left: The Supreme Court.

And the supremes get a little testy when you try to appeal things that have no (or very little) constitutional relation.  The NFLPA would do well to tread lightly.  It may behoove them to give up the ghost, rather than trying to walk that path.

And if they DO appeal, first off...I don't see the Supremes issuing an injunction while they decide whether or not to hear it.  And second...I doubt they'd hear it.  If the NFLPA doesn't like the power that resides with the commissioners office for their sport, they should address it in the CB next time...and not try to make the courts bargain for them.

At this point, it's time for Brady and the NFLPA to buck up, take the suspension, bitch about it loudly, and put this on "the list" for the next negotiations.

I agree, but at this point I see no reason for them to fold. They've come this far, so they might as well see it to the end. They likely won't get the results they desire, but what do they have to lose?

[faldor]

Not that anyone should be surprised by this, but...Brady's appeal has been denied to be heard by the appeals court, effectively denying the appeal, itself.

He COULD appeal to SCOTUS and try to get an injunction.  I would find it very hard to believe the Supremes would pick this up, given it has limited (if any) constitutional relation.

He needs to just take his punishment like a man and stop acting like a baby. The SCOTUS has more important shit to worry about then his bruised ego for cheating at a game.

What's important to one person may not be as important to another. I know this ceased being about deflated footballs long ago, but if Brady truly believes he did nothing wrong than it makes absolutely zero sense for him to lay down and take punishment for something he didn't do.

I don't think Brady missing 4 games will cripple the Patriots this coming season, but I can't fault a man for doing everything he can to prove his innocence. Obviously you think he's guilty, along with a host of others. I honestly feel if he was guilty he would've given up by now or seriously pushed for a settlement long ago. He wouldn't be the first innocent man to be erroneously convicted of something he didn't do. It's a big deal to him, and that's all that matters.

[pilferk]

I agree, but at this point I see no reason for them to fold. They've come this far, so they might as well see it to the end. They likely won't get the results they desire, but what do they have to lose?

There are penalties(up to and including being disbarred for the attorneys) for filing a SCOTUS appeal they deem "frivolous" or unrelated to constitutional matters. So, in short, the attorneys risk losing their right to practice law and make a living.

In addition, the reason to fold is exactly the ones previously mentioned: You're wasting the courts time and, in essence, you're now doing more damage to your legacy than you otherwise have (or would have).

I think you have to tread VERY lightly, here or risk doing more damage than any potential upside here, especially given it's a BIG long shot that SCOTUS would hear the case.  It's a risk/reward assessement and, at some point, the risk outweighs the reward.

The Pats and Brady have already end arounded the financial hit Brady would take by serving the suspension this year.  They've minimized the damage it could have on the team by pushing it to the first 4 games, which means they can pretty much overcome anything (even going 0-4) over the next 12.  Honestly, given the probabilities here....taking the 4 now is FAR better than, say, taking it in the 2017-2018 season (because that's probably how long it is til the Supremes would hear it, if they decided to at all).  He'd take a bigger $$ hit, the team would likely be in worse shape in terms of "coping" with his loss, etc.  And if they lose (and they're likely going to lose...SCOTUS has been very, very, very conservative when it comes to messing with any labor agreements in the past, unless they GROSSLY violate the constitution), they'll just have damaged his reputation/legacy even more.

And what's the upside, at this point, to winning?  Compared to that?

There's reason aplenty, guilty or not, to just take the slap, bitch about it (since he's not taking a reduction, he can say whatever he wants about it, and so can his lawyers...no gag rule) to anyone that will listen, and Mo Vaughn.  Given the options left, THATS actually the less risky course, overall.

It now less about "are you guilty" (think what you want, the NFL's is the only opinion that really matters, according to the courts) and more about "can we get a court to say Goodell doesn't have the commish powers we agreed, in the CBA, that he has, to control the sport".

[faldor]

Yeah but this is bigger than Tom Brady right now. Even if he himself thought it was hopeless and better off to just throw up the white flag, I'm not sure the union would go along with that. He'd probably be encouraged to keep up the fight. I'm trusting they know what they're doing and in the end Brady won't miss the last 2 games of the season and the playoffs or something like that.

[pilferk]

Yeah but this is bigger than Tom Brady right now. Even if he himself thought it was hopeless and better off to just throw up the white flag, I'm not sure the union would go along with that. He'd probably be encouraged to keep up the fight. I'm trusting they know what they're doing and in the end Brady won't miss the last 2 games of the season and the playoffs or something like that.

Bigger than Brady how? It's an arbitration decision. It's is absolutely NOT bigger than him.  It might not be 100% about Brady, BUT...having said that..it's about roughly 1500 people.

You're going to (and they're going to try) to say that it's about unfair labor practices, blah, blah, blah.  But it's not.  That's the smokescreen to try to get it to the Supremes.

It's a labor relation issue, specifically including arbitration.  The Supremes have typically avoided those cases.

Secondary to that, it's a contract dispute.  Again, the Supremes have typically avoided those cases.

As for them knowing what they're doing...we'll agree to disagree, there.  There is ample evidence, up to and including the ACTUAL CBA, that shows otherwise.  The NFLPA should start going to "union lessons" taught by the MLBPA.

And, for the record, I totally think they'll file suit.  And I don't think they'll get a stay from the 2nd circuit, or from Ginsberg (who is in charge of stays on the Supremes side).  And he'll serve the first 4, because, even if the Supremes were to hear it (and I'm pretty sure they won't, but we'll see) , it would be next year before that happens.  And, at that point, it will be a moot point anyway.  The only thing Brady would get back would be the 300k he lost...which wouldn't even cover the costs of the legal proceedings (and yes, I know....they're paid for already by the NFLPA...just pointing out the inequity...though you've probably got a good bit of the rank and file pissed they are paying dues to support these proceedings). The UNION would get a nice precedent, maybe, depending on the wording of the decision..but they might not even get that if, as they have in the past, the Supremes go super narrow on the wording of their decision.

What I'm saying is that...filing suit, getting the stay, having the Supremes hear the case, and LOSING could actually be WORSE than just taking the 4 games, now.  A LOT worse for Brady and the Pats.

  And, FYI, if they lose (and there is pretty much a 95% chance they are going to lose), they've basically just set precedent for all the lower courts to HAVE to rule on the NFLs side, forever and ever, when it comes to these questions of use of power.  Which means, really, the downside could be even WORSE for the union than it is now, because all those little wins they've gotten before?  They'll never, ever, ever get another one if they file with the Supremes and they refuse to hear (thus affirming the lower courts decision), or hear and the union loses.

So, risk/reward falls firmly on "don't file" IMHO.  But they will.  The union, at this point, is going to trumpet and lament their own stupidity forever.

[faldor]

It's "bigger than Brady" in the respect that it no longer has anything to do with Tom Brady deflating footballs. That's all I meant by that.

And I should have stressed that I HOPE the NFLPA is making the right decisions during this process. Obviously they aren't the best run Union going, but all I can do is hope at this point. What other choice do I have?

[pilferk]

Brady NOT appealing.

So, there you have it....he'll serve his four games to start this season.

[faldor]

Brady NOT appealing.

So, there you have it....he'll serve his four games to start this season.

Man, you're fast. Beat me to it. We can finally put this whole charade to bed and see what Jimmy G can do. It'll just be that much more humiliating if the rest of the AFC East finishes well behind the Pats with Brady missing 1/4 of the season. Good luck!

From Tom Brady's Facebook: I'm very grateful for the overwhelming support I've received from Mr. Kraft, the Kraft family, coach Belichick, my coaches and teammates, the NFLPA, my agents, my loving family and most of all, our fans. It has been a challenging 18 months and I have made the difficult decision to no longer proceed with the legal process. I'm going to work hard to be the best player I can be for the New England Patriots and I look forward to having the opportunity to return to the field this fall.

[pilferk]

Man, you're fast. Beat me to it. We can finally put this whole charade to bed and see what Jimmy G can do. It'll just be that much more humiliating if the rest of the AFC East finishes well behind the Pats with Brady missing 1/4 of the season. Good luck!

Shefty has me on speed dial.

[faldor]

Man, you're fast. Beat me to it. We can finally put this whole charade to bed and see what Jimmy G can do. It'll just be that much more humiliating if the rest of the AFC East finishes well behind the Pats with Brady missing 1/4 of the season. Good luck!

Shefty has me on speed dial.

It looks like it.
I meant to compliment you on your "Mo Vaughn" usage the other day. I thought I was the only one who used that. People rarely understand what I'm talking about when I say it. I get a lot of puzzled looks.