Anyone else prefer CD to the UYIs?

[D-GenerationX]

Not even a little bit.

UYI is a great burger.  CD is Hamburger Helper without the hamburger.

I prefer Tuna Helper myself Clark - Cousin Eddie

Hahahaha

Nice.

[Nikki_Sixx]

Of course not.

2 different bands.

That doesn't mean you can't prefer one. Just that they are difficult to compare.

That's what I meant, you just can't compare the two, it's two different bands.

By the way, if it weren't for the superiority of the UYI's, there would be no CD to speak of ...

[GNR4LIFEJD]

But isn't the great thing about music is that it is subjective. To us outsiders we say why would they sit on all this great material for it not to be released giving the implication that the best stuff has already come out. For all we know whatever material may come in the future some may say WOW this is even better then Chi Dem and some may say well this is why they held onto it for sooo long it was ok at best. I know we all hate the waiting game in this music world we live in but all you can do is wait and let whatever comes out determine the fate of the music.

[Voodoochild]

I struggle to find anything on CD that sounds dated aside from Shackler's intro riff IMHO.

[D-GenerationX]

I struggle to find anything on CD that sounds dated aside from Shackler's intro riff IMHO.

I agree.  Of all the knocks the album has, some quite legit, that one never rang true to me.

[Nikki_Sixx]

CD on the other hand is solid, it's not all over the place, Axl's vocals are more consistent, the drums have a cool sound, it's a cohesive record that feels like a consistent idea, not a schizophrenic mishmash.

You are kidding right ?

[Wooody]

I struggle to find anything on CD that sounds dated aside from Shackler's intro riff IMHO.

I agree.  Of all the knocks the album has, some quite legit, that one never rang true to me.

While I do love The blues (SOD), and I consider the song to be one of the best CD has, I think it sounds dated.

[Voodoochild]

I struggle to find anything on CD that sounds dated aside from Shackler's intro riff IMHO.

I agree.  Of all the knocks the album has, some quite legit, that one never rang true to me.

While I do love The blues (SOD), and I consider the song to be one of the best CD has, I think it sounds dated.

And why is that?

To me what makes a track sounding dated is the arrangement, a clich? (as in the Shackler's example), maybe the recording technique, or the tone of particular instruments. I don't hear anything wrong on SOD.

[aaronjcurtis]

You can't compare apples to oranges.

[Sosso]

You can't compare apples to oranges.

Why not? both of them are fruits?

[CherryGarcia]

Thing is, the UYIs might have the better collection of songs and they likely do, but the execution is so horrible....I mean, go back and listen to those albums. The production is terrible, utterly slick and sterile, on every song. The drums sound on some songs like a metronome. There's no life or feel to them the way there is on AFD, Lies or CD. They seriously drag down the record and many songs. I mean, a song like Bad Apples is supposed to be really funky, and you've just got Matt thumping away like a drum machine on it. I mean, listen to how weird his drums sound on the intro to 14 Years! Then, all the unneeded sound effects and corny overdubs (KOHD phone call, COOL RANCH DRESSING, the bubble sounds on Garden of Eden, GET DOWN WITH YO BAD SELF)...It turns the record into a cheesefest, and again, that production kills the record. Go listen to Ten, Metallica, Nevermind, Badmotorfinger, and then the UYIs back to back. Go listen to AFD, then the UYIs, back to back, and you'll get what I'm saying about the production. Great songs in theory plagued by almost unlistenable production and some of the worst drumming I've ever heard.

[Wooody]

I struggle to find anything on CD that sounds dated aside from Shackler's intro riff IMHO.

I agree.  Of all the knocks the album has, some quite legit, that one never rang true to me.

While I do love The blues (SOD), and I consider the song to be one of the best CD has, I think it sounds dated.

And why is that?

To me what makes a track sounding dated is the arrangement, a clich? (as in the Shackler's example), maybe the recording technique, or the tone of particular instruments. I don't hear anything wrong on SOD.

The sentimentality of the song, a bit poppish or melodramatic at times. Im not knocking the song when I say this, but this was more akin to 80's and 90's songs.
The tone of the guitar does sound a bit dated as well, the grand piano and the violins. I mean, you can use a piano and violins, but there is something in the sound, maybe the way it was recorded, or the instruments, it sounds like it comes from an early 90's song.
Again, Im not knocking the song, I love it, but it feels like early 90's to me. Not 2008.

[Wooody]

Thing is, the UYIs might have the better collection of songs and they likely do, but the execution is so horrible....I mean, go back and listen to those albums. The production is terrible, utterly slick and sterile, on every song. The drums sound on some songs like a metronome. There's no life or feel to them the way there is on AFD, Lies or CD. They seriously drag down the record and many songs. I mean, a song like Bad Apples is supposed to be really funky, and you've just got Matt thumping away like a drum machine on it. I mean, listen to how weird his drums sound on the intro to 14 Years! Then, all the unneeded sound effects and corny overdubs (KOHD phone call, COOL RANCH DRESSING, the bubble sounds on Garden of Eden, GET DOWN WITH YO BAD SELF)...It turns the record into a cheesefest, and again, that production kills the record. Go listen to Ten, Metallica, Nevermind, Badmotorfinger, and then the UYIs back to back. Go listen to AFD, then the UYIs, back to back, and you'll get what I'm saying about the production. Great songs in theory plagued by almost unlistenable production and some of the worst drumming I've ever heard.

Now you're just begging to be thrown eggs at you 

[D-GenerationX]

So, wait a sec.  Let me see if I am understanding this.

We are knocking the UYI for silly sound effects.  And holding up as example of what should be is an album with :

- a title track with a comically long and pretentious intro
- whatever that in in the middle of 'Better'
- whatever that is in the middle of 'If The World'
- the Cookie Monster backing vocals in 'There Was A Time'
- the vocal intro to 'Scraped'
- basically the entire song, 'Rhiad & The Bedouins'
- movie quotes in the middle of 'Madagascar'
- the glug-glug water sound in 'Prostitute'

Now, I want to be clear about something.

This isn't so much shitting all over CD and defending UYI as it is pointing out both the inconsistency of the criticisms, as well as illustrating that's pretty much what this band is.  Their songs have stuff like this present in all 3 albums.

[Thorned Rose]

Of course not.

2 different bands.

That doesn't mean you can't prefer one. Just that they are difficult to compare.

That's what I meant, you just can't compare the two, it's two different bands.

By the way, if it weren't for the superiority of the UYI's, there would be no CD to speak of ...

Well it was, but since he cried like a baby and kept the Gn'R name, the same standards apply. Sorry!

[Voodoochild]

The sentimentality of the song, a bit poppish or melodramatic at times. Im not knocking the song when I say this, but this was more akin to 80's and 90's songs.
The tone of the guitar does sound a bit dated as well, the grand piano and the violins. I mean, you can use a piano and violins, but there is something in the sound, maybe the way it was recorded, or the instruments, it sounds like it comes from an early 90's song.
Again, Im not knocking the song, I love it, but it feels like early 90's to me. Not 2008.

I wasn't saying you were knocking the song, sorry if it sounded like that.

I see where you came from, but I disagree. I actually think the piano sounds like a real grand piano instead of just a flat baddly recorded regular piano or even the Korg synths people uses these days. About the guitars, I'm not sure if you meant everyone. Maybe the last added Bumblefoot on top does the damage for you? Also, the violins seems ok to me, no complain about it. Maybe it's just a matter of taste.

- basically the entire song, 'Rhiad & The Bedouins'

Every time I see people dissing this song like its as electronic as My World. It is actually one of the most guitar driven of the album. The keys on that are not as proeminent as in Chinese Democracy. I don't know if it's just the intro or the tone of the guitars, but I do feel Riad gets undeserved trash.

[Thorned Rose]

So, wait a sec.  Let me see if I am understanding this.

We are knocking the UYI for silly sound effects.  And holding up as example of what should be is an album with :

- a title track with a comically long and pretentious intro
- whatever that in in the middle of 'Better'
- whatever that is in the middle of 'If The World'
- the Cookie Monster backing vocals in 'There Was A Time'
- the vocal intro to 'Scraped'
- basically the entire song, 'Rhiad & The Bedouins'
- movie quotes in the middle of 'Madagascar'
- the glug-glug water sound in 'Prostitute'

Now, I want to be clear about something.

This isn't so much shitting all over CD and defending UYI as it is pointing out both the inconsistency of the criticisms, as well as illustrating that's pretty much what this band is.  Their songs have stuff like this present in all 3 albums.

Either UYI album is better than CD... it isn't even close. CD is over produced and over done. You can tell each song was reworked like 3-6 times. I agree DX

[D-GenerationX]

Its one of the least organic rock albums I can recall.

People talk about Sorum's drumming being mechanical, but the entire CD album has a Dr. Frankenstein quality to it where you can clearly tell songs were cobbled together over different times.

What is that?  Lifelike?

[Thorned Rose]

Yeah. I agree. CD always came off like a really really worn down fishing boat, that floats well, and works well, but its got a used motor, and lots of patches and duct tape kinda feel to it.

It was a new album, but it just had this worn out, old spit and tape feel too it. Like I had heard 4 or 5 of the songs live for like 6 years or so when it came out. Then since they jerked off for several years all together, it leaked. So obviously I listened to the leaks.. (which in this case is very much okay since it took FOREVER to come out)

So when I bought the album day 1, I had 5 songs I had worn out live... the other 6 I had heard leaks of for months, and 3 new songs.

So basically it was like getting 3 new songs in some ways. Yeah it really does feel not as cohesive.

Maybe that's because it had like 200 guitarists on there? lol

It was just the band's famous name, with the original singer/writer with a bunch of dudes basically. it was good though. Considering it all.

I mean when you really really think about it... it's pretty mindblowing. It was like an open door band. Huge, Finck, Bucket, Bumble, Fortus

That's 5 guys that it took to do what Izzy and Slash did better.

[EmilyGNR]

So, wait a sec.  Let me see if I am understanding this.

We are knocking the UYI for silly sound effects.  And holding up as example of what should be is an album with :

- a title track with a comically long and pretentious intro
- whatever that in in the middle of 'Better'
- whatever that is in the middle of 'If The World'
- the Cookie Monster backing vocals in 'There Was A Time'
- the vocal intro to 'Scraped'
- basically the entire song, 'Rhiad & The Bedouins'
- movie quotes in the middle of 'Madagascar'
- the glug-glug water sound in 'Prostitute'

Now, I want to be clear about something.

This isn't so much shitting all over CD and defending UYI as it is pointing out both the inconsistency of the criticisms, as well as illustrating that's pretty much what this band is.  Their songs have stuff like this present in all 3 albums.

Either UYI album is better than CD... it isn't even close. CD is over produced and over done. You can tell each song was reworked like 3-6 times. I agree DX

I find most people employing the term "overproduced" don't have an inkling of what they are talking about.

It is rich, multi-textured and layered, can best be appreciated on a quality stereo system. It doesn't suffer from over compression like several other albums from that time period.

Here's a great article from Bob Ludwig:

Guns ?N Roses:
Dynamics and quality win the Loudness Wars


Bob Ludwig:

On Sunday, November 23rd the new Guns ?N Roses record Chinese Democracy was finally released after many years of waiting and many millions spent making it. 14 different recording studios are credited. I was thrilled to have been chosen to master the album.

In October, when I first heard some of final mixes which were incredibly multi-layered and dense, I was surprised by two things: The mixes were so finally honed that doing the smallest move sounded like I had done a lot and also that adding the typical amount of compression used in mastering these days took the life and musicality out of the recordings in a big way.

The trial disc I submitted to the producers had 3 versions: The one I personally liked had no compression that was used just for loudness, only compression that was needed for great sounding rock and roll. Then, knowing how competitive everything is these days, I made two more masterings, one with more compression and another with yet more compression, but even the loudest one wasn?t remotely as loud as some recent CDs. Hoping that at least one of these would satisfy Axl and Caram Costanzo, the co-producers of the record, I was floored when I heard they decided to go with my full dynamics version and the loudness-for-loudness-sake versions be damned.

I think the fan and press backlash against the recent heavily compressed recordings finally set the context for someone to take a stand and return to putting music and dynamics above shear level.

The dynamics vs. volume trade-offs include the act of simply turning your playback volume clockwise a little. True, when shopping the iTunes store your song may not blast out as loudly as other songs. When trying to impress the radio station PD it may be an issue if you don?t have the guaranteed attention this record deserves, however level on the radio broadcast is NOT an issue. As I have been lecturing to people for years, the radio stations are all in competition with each other and they all have devices to make loud things soft and soft things loud and indeed, I heard a critic?s review of Chinese Democracy on NPR and the song examples they played screamed over my portable radio. Even with the radio station compression you can still hear detail in the car? amazing!
I?m hoping that Chinese Democracy will mark the beginning of people returning to sane levels and musicality triumphing over distortion and grunge. I have already seen a new awareness and appreciation for quality from some other producers, I pray it is the end of the level wars.

Gateway Mastering & DVD