[CONFIRMED] Izzy talks: Not involved with GN'R at this point

[GeorgeSteele]

It's impossible to know, it would be pure speculation.

He might just like that song.

Yes, impossible to know for sure, but to me the circumstances suggest a likelihood that it's more than just a random song he likes.   

[Walapino]

It's impossible to know, it would be pure speculation.

He might just like that song.

Yes, impossible to know for sure, but to me the circumstances suggest a likelihood that it's more than just a random song he likes.   

I agree! 

[GypsySoul]

By the way, Izzy has posted the full version of the Jonathan Edwards cover "Sunshine".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr-exhTinXk

Here are the lyrics.  If he's not involved because the level of participation (and/or $$) that's been offered to him is not to his liking, then these lyrics seem to be directed at someone...

Sunshine go away today, I don't feel much like dancing
Some man's come he's trying to run my life, don't know what he's asking
When he tells me I better get in line, can't hear what he's saying
Someday soon, I'm gonna make him mine, these ain't dues I been paying

How much does it cost?
I'll buy it!
The time is all we've lost
I'll try it!
He can't even run his own life,
I'll be damned if he'll run mine--sunshine

My guess would be that Izzy is suggesting he's in a similar situation as Axl was when Azoff was trying to force a reunion at a time when Axl was not inclined to do so.

With this scenario it makes sense to me why Izzy would (IMO) so out-of-character join twitter just to state something that as fans we all expected to be the case and accept it as the way/extent Izzy chooses to be involved with GNR.

With these song lyrics, Izzy could be very well sending a FU/not-gonna-happen message to those who want to force him into a larger/permanent role.

IMO, everyone - Axl and the entire GNR band/camp and the fans and Izzy himself - are all fine with Izzy showing up whenever he feels like it.  I think this is something that "the suits" have a hard time comprehending.

Of course everyone who has bought or buys a ticket to shows hopes that their show is one that Izzy chooses to show up at. 


But I'm still not going to follow this twitter page so I thank and am depending on all of you to keep me updated if he posts anything I might be interested in.  As I've said before, I like my Izzy being an enigma.  IMO, his being on twitter just makes him too "normal" for my liking. 

[Virolec]

Bullshit, contemplation and gossip, eh? 

[D-GenerationX]

Here are the lyrics.  If he's not involved because the level of participation (and/or $$) that's been offered to him is not to his liking, then these lyrics seem to be directed at someone...

Sure does.

Makes 'King Nothing' look subtle.

[GeorgeSteele]

Gypsy's theory that he's being pressured into a bigger role might be the case, but we have so little to go by.  Maybe this time he wanted a bigger role given the money involved with this reunion, maybe he did not appreciate that Axl/Slash/Duff negotiated everything without him and then was approached after the fact with basically a mascot role.   It sure was an aggressive move, for him at least, to come out so publicly, as if he wanted to make sure that no part of this would be marketed with his participation.

[GypsySoul]

Gypsy's theory that he's being pressured into a bigger role might be the case, but we have so little to go by.  Maybe this time he wanted a bigger role given the money involved with this reunion, maybe he did not appreciate that Axl/Slash/Duff negotiated everything without him and then was approached after the fact with basically a mascot role.   It sure was an aggressive move, for him at least, to come out so publicly, as if he wanted to make sure that no part of this would be marketed with his participation.

I wouldn't think that is the case only because the initial tweet specified he would not be involved in the April shows.  Most of us are guessing/hoping that he deliberately left the door open for future shows of his choosing.

[GeorgeSteele]

Gypsy's theory that he's being pressured into a bigger role might be the case, but we have so little to go by.  Maybe this time he wanted a bigger role given the money involved with this reunion, maybe he did not appreciate that Axl/Slash/Duff negotiated everything without him and then was approached after the fact with basically a mascot role.   It sure was an aggressive move, for him at least, to come out so publicly, as if he wanted to make sure that no part of this would be marketed with his participation.

I wouldn't think that is the case only because the initial tweet specified he would not be involved in the April shows.  Most of us are guessing/hoping that he deliberately left the door open for future shows of his choosing.

Could be, but there are no other shows other than the April shows, though I understand that's likely to change (I sure hope so).  Anyway, if he was leaving the door open for future shows (I'm not too confident that he was), it may be that he's only open if they come more in his direction of the terms he's asking for. 

My feeling is that he sees this tour as different from the Guns concerts he's made cameo appearances at in recent years.  It's a legacy tour in many ways and, as a co-founder, perhaps he would feel slighted just being an appendage on stage in that context instead of his past role as the primary rhythm guitarist.  Granted, I don't have much to back that up and, being such a big fan of his, maybe my own baggage is influencing how I'm seeing this, but that's how I'm seeing this. 

[GypsySoul]

Could be, but there are no other shows other than the April shows, though I understand that's likely to change (I sure hope so).  Anyway, if he was leaving the door open for future shows (I'm not too confident that he was), it may be that he's only open if they come more in his direction of the terms he's asking for. 

My feeling is that he sees this tour as different from the Guns concerts he's made cameo appearances at in recent years.  It's a legacy tour in many ways and, as a co-founder, perhaps he would feel slighted just being an appendage on stage in that context instead of his past role as the primary rhythm guitarist.  Granted, I don't have much to back that up and, being such a big fan of his, maybe my own baggage is influencing how I'm seeing this, but that's how I'm seeing this. 

TBH, I hadn't noticed that only April shows were announced. 

Obviously none of us know for sure.  I think before the tweet, everyone just figured that Izzy's involvement was going to be what it has been for the past 10 years.  And since it seemed that Izzy only wanted to be a guest participant, it was a natural thought that Richard would continue in his current role in the band.

By his past actions, I can't imagine Izzy wanting to be a permanent addition to GNR.  (I still can't imagine Izzy tweeting either.)  I do see the dilemma you're suggesting since Richard (IMO) is an integral part of the CD-era songs as well as proven more than capable of doing proper homage to the material prior to his joining GNR.

So if Izzy does want his part back permanently that certainly would be a conundrum for what the identity of GNR would represent, i.e., nostalgia band vs next (final?) phase of the evolution.

[GypsySoul]

Technically, this is NOT a double post because I'm about to question this post of mine and again GeorgeSteele's.

Obviously none of us know for sure.  I think before the tweet, everyone just figured that Izzy's involvement was going to be what it has been for the past 10 years.  And since it seemed that Izzy only wanted to be a guest participant, it was a natural thought that Richard would continue in his current role in the band.

By his past actions, I can't imagine Izzy wanting to be a permanent addition to GNR.  (I still can't imagine Izzy tweeting either.)  I do see the dilemma you're suggesting since Richard (IMO) is an integral part of the CD-era songs as well as proven more than capable of doing proper homage to the material prior to his joining GNR.

So if Izzy does want his part back permanently that certainly would be a conundrum for what the identity of GNR would represent, i.e., nostalgia band vs next (final?) phase of the evolution.

I failed to take into consideration the fact that for the past 15-ish years, GNR has had three guitarists.  If Izzy wanted to be a permanent member again, he could reestablish his role on all the AFD and whichever of the UYI stuff he wants to do.  Richard would have this role on the CD-era stuff plus the second lead on anything Izzy wants rhythm on.   

Gypsy's theory that he's being pressured into a bigger role might be the case, but we have so little to go by.  Maybe this time he wanted a bigger role given the money involved with this reunion, maybe he did not appreciate that Axl/Slash/Duff negotiated everything without him and then was approached after the fact with basically a mascot role.   It sure was an aggressive move, for him at least, to come out so publicly, as if he wanted to make sure that no part of this would be marketed with his participation.

My feeling is that he sees this tour as different from the Guns concerts he's made cameo appearances at in recent years.  It's a legacy tour in many ways and, as a co-founder, perhaps he would feel slighted just being an appendage on stage in that context instead of his past role as the primary rhythm guitarist.  Granted, I don't have much to back that up and, being such a big fan of his, maybe my own baggage is influencing how I'm seeing this, but that's how I'm seeing this. 

For this to be case, Axl AND Slash AND Duff would have had to ALL mutually agree to slight Izzy.  And if Izzy believed that ALL three of them conspired against him and his equal rightful place in a GNR legacy tour, I think Izzy's reaction would be a little more intense than an unverified twitter account post and a cryptic message in a cover song video.

I still think that when the rest of the tour dates are set, Izzy is going to be involved to whatever extent he chooses.  And everyone will be more than okay with that.

[GeorgeSteele]

I failed to take into consideration the fact that for the past 15-ish years, GNR has had three guitarists.  If Izzy wanted to be a permanent member again, he could reestablish his role on all the AFD and whichever of the UYI stuff he wants to do.  Richard would have this role on the CD-era stuff plus the second lead on anything Izzy wants rhythm on.   

Yeah, that's a good point re: 3 guitarists.  I was likely off on that, unlikely that he wants anything permanent or more solid.  I think there's 2 issues going on.  On Axl's side, he may feel that Izzy's appearances can't be as random as they had been, whether because of that fact that this tour is just a bigger deal and they need some reliability or because they're talking to Adler and they need to coordinate Adler's and Izzy's appearances so that they're onstage together at specific dates/times/songs.  Izzy may want to come and go where and when as he pleases but probably wants much more money for his involvement than he's gotten in recent years simply because this tour will be making much more money than tours from the past 15 years.  Bottom line, this has a 1991 deja vu vibe to it --- Izzy wanting things a certain way, Axl saying 'fine, but then you get less money and no control' and then Izzy quitting. 

For this to be case, Axl AND Slash AND Duff would have had to ALL mutually agree to slight Izzy.  And if Izzy believed that ALL three of them conspired against him and his equal rightful place in a GNR legacy tour, I think Izzy's reaction would be a little more intense than an unverified twitter account post and a cryptic message in a cover song video.

Not necessarily.  Most things GNR are Axl decisions, I don't think that's changed with Slash and Duff back in the picture.  For all we know, they probably sympathize with Izzy on this but that wouldn't be the hill they die on if there comes a time they need to hold firm with Axl on something.

I still think that when the rest of the tour dates are set, Izzy is going to be involved to whatever extent he chooses.  And everyone will be more than okay with that.

I hope so, but clearly the guy is pissed, so something, whether it's what we're speculating or something else entirely, needs to get resolved. 

[Smoking Guns]

I failed to take into consideration the fact that for the past 15-ish years, GNR has had three guitarists.  If Izzy wanted to be a permanent member again, he could reestablish his role on all the AFD and whichever of the UYI stuff he wants to do.  Richard would have this role on the CD-era stuff plus the second lead on anything Izzy wants rhythm on.   

Yeah, that's a good point re: 3 guitarists.  I was likely off on that, unlikely that he wants anything permanent or more solid.  I think there's 2 issues going on.  On Axl's side, he may feel that Izzy's appearances can't be as random as they had been, whether because of that fact that this tour is just a bigger deal and they need some reliability or because they're talking to Adler and they need to coordinate Adler's and Izzy's appearances so that they're onstage together at specific dates/times/songs.  Izzy may want to come and go where and when as he pleases but probably wants much more money for his involvement than he's gotten in recent years simply because this tour will be making much more money than tours from the past 15 years.  Bottom line, this has a 1991 deja vu vibe to it --- Izzy wanting things a certain way, Axl saying 'fine, but then you get less money and no control' and then Izzy quitting. 

For this to be case, Axl AND Slash AND Duff would have had to ALL mutually agree to slight Izzy.  And if Izzy believed that ALL three of them conspired against him and his equal rightful place in a GNR legacy tour, I think Izzy's reaction would be a little more intense than an unverified twitter account post and a cryptic message in a cover song video.

Not necessarily.  Most things GNR are Axl decisions, I don't think that's changed with Slash and Duff back in the picture.  For all we know, they probably sympathize with Izzy on this but that wouldn't be the hill they die on if there comes a time they need to hold firm with Axl on something.

I still think that when the rest of the tour dates are set, Izzy is going to be involved to whatever extent he chooses.  And everyone will be more than okay with that.

I hope so, but clearly the guy is pissed, so something, whether it's what we're speculating or something else entirely, needs to get resolved. 

I agree. This isn't about Slash and Duff but between Axl and Izzy whatever it is.

I am pretty sure it is money related and they offered him just a few bucks to show up to the early gigs and make cameos. I think that is what this is about. Lack of respect in his mind. These are just my thoughts.

[JAEBALL]

I hope this hasn't sparked a feud between Izzy and Axl and or the other two guys.

Gotta admit... it all sounds very plausible.

[younggunner]

I think the questions that need to be answered are in regards to Izzy's commitment to a tour.
Was he offered back in the band? Does he just want to tour? Did he agree and something has changed?  Or does he want to have his cake and eat it too(the occasional appearance but on his terms)? Does he want to write with the band? Basically...Izzy....what do you want! ? And that is an important factor because everything will fall into place after that question is answered. It all starts with Izzy and his commitment.

[Spirit]

New Izzy video!

Full song tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmHn-ra9-xI



"Izzy Stradlin: The Twitter Sessions" 


Edit: Before anyone asks, the youtube account "Guns N' Roses 2016" is not Izzy's, someone just uploaded his twitter video to youtube.

[JAEBALL]

I think the questions that need to be answered are in regards to Izzy's commitment to a tour.
Was he offered back in the band? Does he just want to tour? Did he agree and something has changed?  Or does he want to have his cake and eat it too(the occasional appearance but on his terms)? Does he want to write with the band? Basically...Izzy....what do you want! ? And that is an important factor because everything will fall into place after that question is answered. It all starts with Izzy and his commitment.

Yep.. and I wouldn't expect an explanation any time soon!

I'd find it hard to believe they didn't ask him if he wanted to be a full participant. So maybe they did but not pay him an equal share?

Who knows... i'd give anything to be a fly on the wall inside those discussions.

[jarmo]

I'd find it hard to believe they didn't ask him if he wanted to be a full participant.

Why would that be hard to believe?

Hypothetically speaking. If you think about it, the whole reunion tour is something that's been pretty much created by outsiders. Maybe for the band members themselves, it's more about Axl regrouping with Duff and Slash again.

If that's the case, then I can see why Izzy (and/or Steven and so on) weren't asked to take part full time (or part time).
In other words, if the tour isn't meant to be some kind of reunion of a specific line up from a specific era, then why would they have to ask everyone involved in said era to be part of the shows?

I hope that makes sense.



/jarmo

[GeorgeSteele]

Actually, the whole 'reunion' / 'not a reunion' issue may be what prompted Izzy to speak out, particularly if he was not asked to participate. 

Let's say hypothetically, Izzy wasn't asked.  I would imagine that would piss him off.  Also, it's probably a thorn in his side that the media is characterizing it as a reunion even though he, the band's co-founder, is not involved.  I understand the band has done nothing to characterize it as a reunion, but they haven't done much to dispel that, nor have they denied rumors of Izzy's involvement in terms of tour appearances and being in the studio with them.  If we're being cynical here, it's not really in their interest to dispel that, is it?

So Izzy may have seen that as pouring salt in his wound in that, not only he wasn't asked, but the band is still benefitting from the media's characterization that it's a reunion and from rumors that he's a part of it.  So he then felt the need to make clear that he has nothing to do with this. 

Of course, the band is not responsible for rumors spread in the media and everyone calling it a reunion, but regardless, Izzy coming out like this can affect how well the tour does.  Maybe the band doesn't care one way or the other that Izzy went public with this, but I'm sure that some promoters are pretty angry about it. 

[Spirit]

I'd find it hard to believe they didn't ask him if he wanted to be a full participant.

Why would that be hard to believe?

Hypothetically speaking. If you think about it, the whole reunion tour is something that's been pretty much created by outsiders. Maybe for the band members themselves, it's more about Axl regrouping with Duff and Slash again.

If that's the case, then I can see why Izzy (and/or Steven and so on) weren't asked to take part full time (or part time).
In other words, if the tour isn't meant to be some kind of reunion of a specific line up from a specific era, then why would they have to ask everyone involved in said era to be part of the shows?

I hope that makes sense.



/jarmo

I agree the reunion narrative is created by fans and media. People heard Slash and Duff was back, so immediately it's a full reunion.

The thing that makes me think it's plausible Izzy has been asked is the case of Duff. Slash comes in to the band not replacing anybody really, both the lead players had already left, while Duff comes in while Tommy presumably still is in the band. From what I can gather, Tommy stepped aside to let Duff back in.

That makes it plausible that they could've had the same plan with Izzy coming back, replacing Richard.


On the other hand, we have the quotes from Axl in 2012 where he says a "reunion" would only work with Slash and Duff. I think Axl views Izzy and Steven as too unreliable for a full tour. Izzy might not have been asked to participate full time for that reason.

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

Always with the semantics here.  People will call it a reunion because its Axl and Slash.  That's all that matters to most people.  Izzy and Steven would not have generated much more interest than what we have today.  Certainly no impact to ticket sales.  Izzy hasn't toured in years so what makes anyone think he'd want to be part of this?  He clearly isn't driven by money.  And he has maintained relationships to some extent with everyone, so can't see him being bitter about a reunion between Axl, Slash and Duff.