Def Leppard disses Guns N' Roses reunion

[Thorned Rose]

SO he actually didn't go on late multiple times?

He didn't fire Gilby without anyone else's consent?

He didn't take steven's 5% away in the beginning...

He didn't bring in Huge even though DUFF and Slash didn't want it.

He didn't threaten not to go on stage if they didn't sign that.

Okay...

I guess Duff/Slash and general media and history must be wrong then.

[D-GenerationX]

Axl's behavior in 90s wasn't great.

I agree with those who say it has much improved since then, because it has.  He's not the same angry lunatic he once was.  He should be commended for that.

But, at least from where I sit, we don't pretend all that shit in the 90s just didn't happen because its more convenient to pretend we all have amnesia.

[EmilyGNR]

SO he actually didn't go on late multiple times?

He didn't fire Gilby without anyone else's consent?

He didn't take steven's 5% away in the beginning...

He didn't bring in Huge even though DUFF and Slash didn't want it.

He didn't threaten not to go on stage if they didn't sign that.

Okay...

I guess Duff/Slash and general media and history must be wrong then.

Axl-
The misconception is that we kicked him out for the hell of it, and that l was the dictator behind it. The truth is, l probably fought a little harder to keep him in the band, because l wasn't working with him on a daily basis like the other guys were. They grew tired of not being able to get their work done because Steven wasn't capable of it. I've read interviews where he's saying that he's straight. Most of the time he isn't. (...) At one point, in order to keep this band together, it was necessary for me to give him a portion of my publishing rights. That was one of the biggest mistakes I've made in my life, but he threw such a fit, saying he wasn't going to stay in the band. We were worried about not being able to record our first album, so I did what l felt l had to do. In the long run l paid very extensively for keeping Steven in Guns N' Roses. I paid $1.5 million by giving him 15 percent of my publishing off of Appetite for Destruction. He didn't write one goddamn note, but he calls me a selfish dick!(...) I feel bad for him in ways, because he's a real damaged person, but he's making choices to keep himself in that damage. There's nothing we can do at this point. We took him to rehabs, we threatened his drug dealers, we helped him when he slashed his wrists.  I even forgave him after he nearly killed my wife. I had to spend a night with her in an intensive-care unit because her heart had stopped thanks to Steven. She was hysterical, and he shot her up with a speedball. She had never done jack shit as far as drugs go, and he shoots her up with a mixture of heroin and cocaine? I kept myself from doing anything to him. I kept the man from being killed by members of her family. I saved him from having to go to court, because her mother wanted him held responsible for his actions. And the sonofabitch turns on me? I mean, yeah, I'm a difficult person to deal with, and I'm a pain in the ass to understand, and I've had my share of problems, but Steven benefited greatly from his involvement with me - more than I did from knowing him. Steven had a lot of fans, but he was a real pain in the ass. I need to keep him in my life for you? F?!k you! ["I, Axl" Del James, RIP Magazine - 1992]

[Thorned Rose]

His behavior is much much improved since UYI era.

It was fucking horrible during that era. It so well documented. Talking about looking through rose colored glasses Ems.

Yikes.

[EmilyGNR]

Axl's behavior in 90s wasn't great.

I agree with those who say it has much improved since then, because it has.  He's not the same angry lunatic he once was.  He should be commended for that.

But, at least from where I sit, we don't pretend all that shit in the 90s just didn't happen because its more convenient to pretend we all have amnesia.

Slash and Duff have improved as well, being off addictive substances constantly.

[EmilyGNR]

His behavior is much much improved since UYI era.

It was fucking horrible during that era. It so well documented. Talking about looking through rose colored glasses Ems.

Yikes.

I doubt if you were even around for the 90's.

You seem to gullibly swallow loads of pure Troll gospel and vomit it up here.

[D-GenerationX]

His behavior is much much improved since UYI era.

It was fucking horrible during that era. It so well documented.

This came up in a thread last year.

I was making a point that the April 1992 Chicago show was just about the perfect show of that era.  It had everything.  Good setlist, the full 12 piece band, and...I believe the term I used was... "3 ridiculous Axl rants".  I was making the point that you can't reference that era and not include that part of the concerts. 

Predictably, I faced a near immediate firing squad for labeling the rants "ridiculous".  Some even played the "emotional baggage" card saying that it was brave for Axl to talk about all that stuff, etc.

But that wasn't my point.

My point was that you just waited until, I don't know...11:00PM for them to come out.  They rip through scorching versions of 'Nightrain' and 'Mr. Brownstone'.  Axl then sends the band off the stage and rants for FIVE SOLID MINUTES about his family and how the universe is pretty much against him.  Put yourself in that crowd.  Talk about a buzzkill.  And live, that 5 minutes probably seemed like a half hour.  All this, after you've been sitting on your hands for 2 and a half hours waiting for him to take the stage.

Shit like that happened, and we can't pretend it didn't.  That sort of thing was part of that tour.  Does it mean I like that concert any less?  Hell no.  I love that concert.

[Thorned Rose]

What about him being "held up" in Paris?

They cancelled lots of gigs over him.

It is very much documented.

[D-GenerationX]

Here is what I find frustrating.  When people tell me that he doesn't do that any more, so it should never be brought up.

Because here's the rub.  He DID do that stuff...and that's what people remember.  He had his worst behavior at the absolute zenith of their popularity.

I sit here just shaking my head when people get all hot and bothered about any article that mentions his tardiness or propensity to storm offstage or cause riots.  Because, to them, so long as it didn't happen yesterday afternoon, it's out of bounds to bring up.

But its only because he behaved that way for YEARS that people are still conditioned to think that way about him.  You can't unring that bell.

[DeN]

I love when people say something is "so well documented" and have no argument to make their point.

pretty funny.

[Thorned Rose]

It is. Don't troll this thread dude.

Via books, and several people from the era.

Basically everyone from that timeframe has stated what I've said. I'm not making this up.

Wanting CD II a little too much? lol

[D-GenerationX]

I love when people say something is "so well documented" and have no argument to make their point.

pretty funny.

They didn't cancel gigs over him?  That's what we're going with?

- they didn't have to cancel shows after the St. Louis riot in summer 1991?
- they didn't have to cancel shows in the spring of 1992 when they got word Axl would be arrested?
- they didn't cancel shows in the summer of 1992 because of "his throat"?
- a number of shows weren't cancelled in the spring of 1993?

What else are we going to try and peddle?  That he was actually well behaved?

Should I call up about 47 examples from bootlegs of him being totally miserable during that tour?

C'mon, man.  He's our favorite guy, always has been, always will be.

We obviously have all made our peace with it, otherwise we would not still give a damn about him.

But let's not deny reality.  Claim its all made up.  It all happened, man.  It's not in dispute.

Furthermore, its that total denial of reality and insistence on revisionist history that prolongs these conversations.  Just trying to get out in front of claims anyone is "dwelling on the negative".

Not when its response to silly claims.  Lack of silly claims cuts down on responses to them.

[DeN]

I love when people say something is "so well documented" and have no argument to make their point.

pretty funny.

They didn't cancel gigs over him?  That's what we're going with?

- they didn't have to cancel shows after the St. Louis riot in summer 1991?
- they didn't have to cancel shows in the spring of 1992 when they got word Axl would be arrested?
- they didn't cancel shows in the summer of 1992 because of "his throat"?
- a number of shows weren't cancelled in the spring of 1993?

What else are we going to try and peddle?  That he was actually well behaved?

Should I call up about 47 examples from bootlegs of him being totally miserable during that tour?

C'mon, man.  He's our favorite guy, always has been, always will be.

We obviously have all made our peace with it, otherwise we would not still give a damn about him.

But let's not deny reality.  Claim its all made up.  It all happened, man.  It's not in dispute.

Furthermore, its that total denial of reality and insistence on revisionist history that prolongs these conversations.  Just trying to get out in front of claims anyone is "dwelling on the negative".

Not when its response to silly claims.  Lack of silly claims cuts down on responses to them.

so basically what you're saying is every canceled shows are Axl's fault, and you found evidence in the press or books.

sure, that's well known that the press loved GNR and Axl, and that these books were written by people who always
said the truth, never lied to fill their own agendas or to look good in public eye...

[DeN]

It is. Don't troll this thread dude.

I can tell when you're saying something stupid?your lips move

[D-GenerationX]

so basically what you're saying is every canceled shows are Axl's fault, and you found evidence in the press or books.

sure, that's well known that the press loved GNR and Axl, and that these books were written by people who always
said the truth, never lied to fill their own agendas or to look good in public eye...

Basically, I'm not so reluctant to address the reality of what we could all plainly see and hear that I feel the need to invent some sort of shadow conspiracy (totally unverifiable, pro or con...like any good conspiracy theory should be) that explains, some, most, if not all of it away.

The UYI tour bootlegs are the things I listen to the most from this band.  Not just of live recordings, I listen to them more than the official albums, for the most part.

But while I love the music, the concerts do not paint the picture of a well behaved, or in some cases, even a very professional man.

But so what?  We are talking about 20 plus years ago, and he seems to have grown out of a lot of this.  That's a good thing.

However, his seeing the light < > erasing the past like it never happened.

[DeN]

so, watching the bootlegs of the shows who happened, you can tell why some others were cancelled.

well, you're a better man than I

[D-GenerationX]

I tend to not read article after article addressing the same repeated behavior over a period of time, and determine what's probably going on here is that the entire press community is in cahoots and out to get him.

One rogue article, OK, maybe.  Article after article, interview after interview, source after source...most with little to no connection to each other...and all telling the same story?  It's probably because that's what happened.

I'm an Occam's Razor sort of fella.  If you need to believe its all been a wacky misunderstanding...hey, salud.

I don't think that's terribly realistic, but am not going to go 12 rounds with you over it either. 

[DeN]

well, the thing is, I used to do that, and to make my own assumptions. Axl didn't help, because
he didn't talk, so I had just one side of the story to try to apprehend the whole thing.

then he began to talk more, and it always made more sense than what I've read before from the other side.

so I had to balance things, and even if there were no saint in that band, yes I tend to trust more Axl than
Slash, Niven, Goldstein, Zutaut and co...

[D-GenerationX]

Do you blame Axl's actions for the riot in St. Louis?

Put a percentage on it.

[DeN]

I'm still not sure what happened really. security seemed lame at that show. did the guy had a knife? a camera?
if it was a camera, it doesn't make any sense at all. if it was a knife and nobody cares, well...

what I thought for a long time was : Axl was hugely influenced by Jim Morrison at that time, and he wanted *his* riot.

so you can't accuse me to be a blind fanboy or whatever, I suppose ahah