Def Leppard disses Guns N' Roses reunion

[D-GenerationX]

I say I like all lineups and don't have a favorite- why exactly do you think I'm not allowed to like what I like?

It's statistically improbable.  And really, its the digging in and refusing to pick that seems off. 

OK, how about a favorite album?  Which album is your favorite?

[EmilyGNR]

I say I like all lineups and don't have a favorite- why exactly do you think I'm not allowed to like what I like?

It's statistically improbable.  And really, its the digging in and refusing to pick that seems off. 

OK, how about a favorite album?  Which album is your favorite?

I have seen all lineups starting with the AFD lineup, there have been things I enjoyed about every one- sorry to throw a wrench into your little statistic gears but I don't have a favorite.

Favorite Album-honestly depends on the day, same with favorite song- was enjoying UYI II in the car today on my commute.

[Thorned Rose]

She probably is. Almost everything I say on this forum she has a view the opposite.

What I normally say is with logic and common sense. I'm not on here saying that Robin, Buckethead or anything else suck or something.

I do think Paul Tobias was a joke joining the band though. His presence really messed things up in the mid 90s. That is fact. Use common sense on that general thought, and Duff, Matt and Slash all had issues with him.

Then she'll act like I'm some kind of idiot for saying he helped break them up?

O M G

No, I wouldn't call you an idiot- but if the shoe fits feel free to put it on.

There are a multitude of reasons GNR imploded when it did, it isn't as simplistic as you are trying desperately to paint it.

Here's what Axl said about Paul- that's good enough for me.
Paul actually contributed a great deal-

Axl-

The public gets a different story from the other guys ? Slash, Duff, Matt - who have their own agendas. The original intentions between Paul and myself were that Paul was going to help me for as long as it took to get this thing together in whatever capacity that he could help me in. So when he first was brought into this, he was brought in as a writer to work with Slash.

At the time those guys never suggested one name. Nobody else. Ever. Paul was one of the best people we knew who was both available and capable of complimenting Slash?s style.

You could bring in a better guitar player than Paul. You could bring in a monster. I tried putting Zakk Wylde with Slash and that didn?t work. It brought out some interesting things in Slash but it was a different approach that ended up being overpowering and didn?t bring out the best in Slash. It brought out some interesting things and it would?ve worked to do some songs.

But Paul was only interested in complimenting Slash, laying down a foundation of a riff or something. That would accent or encourage Slash's lead playing. Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn?t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash. He is and this is the bottom line a good man and that's the reality behind things. That doesn't change what took place with old Guns. I feel that some of the recordings we did in that limited amount of time had some of the best playing that Slash had done at least since Illusions. I was there. I know what I heard and it was pretty exciting.
[...]

Paul helped us a lot in the writing and the recording of this record and to me was a vital part of not only the band but also my life. The world tour really wasn?t his cup of tea whereas he's much more comfortable in a studio setting [GN'R press release with Axl interview; gnronline.com, 2002]

What you are missing is that Paul never should of been brought in. He doesn't get a free pass cause he wrote 1 song on UYI I and knew Axl. He was clearly a very average guitar player. Axl fired Gilby without asking anyone. ANd just plugged Huge in. Clearly against both of their wishes. That is something you're missing badly.

I never said it was clear and easy to point out. It is very complicated. Axl Rose is the main issue with the original breakup. That is clear. Anyone that thinks anything else is just silly.

[Thorned Rose]

I say I like all lineups and don't have a favorite- why exactly do you think I'm not allowed to like what I like?

It's statistically improbable.  And really, its the digging in and refusing to pick that seems off. 

OK, how about a favorite album?  Which album is your favorite?

I have seen all lineups starting with the AFD lineup, there have been things I enjoyed about every one- sorry to throw a wrench into your little statistic gears but I don't have a favorite.

Favorite Album-honestly depends on the day, same with favorite song- was enjoying UYI II in the car today on my commute.

Everyone has a favorite. Or if it isn't a "favorite" its a lean towards something. You are just playing the generalized even field. It is such a safe annoying thing to do. I personally don't care what you like or don't like about Gn'R. It's whatever. I do know you're a huge Axl mark and CD is your favorite album.

From your posting. That.. is clear.

[D-GenerationX]

Everyone has a favorite. Or if it isn't a "favorite" its a lean towards something. You are just playing the generalized even field. It is such a safe annoying thing to do. I personally don't care what you like or don't like about Gn'R. It's whatever. I do know you're a huge Axl mark and CD is your favorite album.

I don't see it that way, actually.  That CD is her favorite.

I see it more as a case of complete refusal to name a favorite anything, because that is somehow going be seen as a slight against the others.

Which is totally ri-god-damn-diculous.

AFD is my favorite album.  This does not mean I'm taking a shot at the UYI albums.

The 1991 line-up is my favorite line-up.  This does not mean I am shitting on any other line-up.

Statistically speaking, everyone has a favorite something.  There is an album you listen to more than the others.  There is a line-up you listen to more than the others.

That's just math.

[Thorned Rose]

Maybe you're right.

It does seem that she likes all eras of Gn'R, but she is pretty bias on the post 1997 Gn'R. And Axl at the least.

I like Axl too, but I DO KNOW from several and various reporting over the years that he was the MAIN issue with all the UYI era drama. She doesn't see it that way. She just lumps it all into one big pile of junk and you can't do that.

My favorite album is probably UYI II, but their best I think is AFD.

Chinese Democracy is right up there with the UYI albums I think too, but isn't close to AFD. That album took like 2 months to make or something, where CD took 10 years if you're being nice about it, up to 12 years if you want to be technical.

[Poops Magee]

They let Mutt Lange record their albums with drum machines-against their wishes...Soldiering on indeed.

[D-GenerationX]

Maybe you're right.

It does seem that she likes all eras of Gn'R, but she is pretty bias on the post 1997 Gn'R. And Axl at the least.

She's very emotionally invested in things people like you or I don't really care about.  And again, not just her, but several folks.

Like how this is all been a straight line evolution.  Its all Guns N' Roses.  It's all equal and its all the same.

People like you and I, we laugh at that.  We don't hate 2001 onwards, but see a clear line of demarcation here, and don't really begrudge anyone (ourselves included) for considering things to be on different levels.

But if you have a big issue with that line of thinking, you are never going to give any sort of ammo that anything is different.  The second you list a favorite anything, the next time you are lecturing someone about how terrible a fan they are for daring to label something anything that super awesome terrific, that person can say, "yeah, but even you said your favorite was <fill in the blank> so you obviously rank things too."

Such a person will shoot blood out their eyes before they give you that opening.  Just never going to happen.

[EmilyGNR]

I say I like all lineups and don't have a favorite- why exactly do you think I'm not allowed to like what I like?

It's statistically improbable.  And really, its the digging in and refusing to pick that seems off. 

OK, how about a favorite album?  Which album is your favorite?

I have seen all lineups starting with the AFD lineup, there have been things I enjoyed about every one- sorry to throw a wrench into your little statistic gears but I don't have a favorite.

Favorite Album-honestly depends on the day, same with favorite song- was enjoying UYI II in the car today on my commute.

Everyone has a favorite. Or if it isn't a "favorite" its a lean towards something. You are just playing the generalized even field. It is such a safe annoying thing to do. I personally don't care what you like or don't like about Gn'R. It's whatever. I do know you're a huge Axl mark and CD is your favorite album.

From your posting. That.. is clear.

Nope CD is not my favorite- You are posting blatant lies, not cool- but not unusual for you.

I find it amusing that some fans put an imaginary segregation line between GNR albums- they are ALL GNR.

[EmilyGNR]

Maybe you're right.

It does seem that she likes all eras of Gn'R, but she is pretty bias on the post 1997 Gn'R. And Axl at the least.

She's very emotionally invested in things people like you or I don't really care about.  And again, not just her, but several folks.

Like how this is all been a straight line evolution.  Its all Guns N' Roses.  It's all equal and its all the same.

People like you and I, we laugh at that.  We don't hate 2001 onwards, but see a clear line of demarcation here, and don't really begrudge anyone (ourselves included) for considering things to be on different levels.

But if you have a big issue with that line of thinking, you are never going to give any sort of ammo that anything is different.  The second you list a favorite anything, the next time you are lecturing someone about how terrible a fan they are for daring to label something anything that super awesome terrific, that person can say, "yeah, but even you said your favorite was <fill in the blank> so you obviously rank things too."

Such a person will shoot blood out their eyes before they give you that opening.  Just never going to happen.

I'm not "emotionally invested" in an online message board, another attempt at posting your little ideas as fact.

There is no imaginary segregation line for me with albums, it's all GNR and I listen to all of them.

[EmilyGNR]

She probably is. Almost everything I say on this forum she has a view the opposite.

What I normally say is with logic and common sense. I'm not on here saying that Robin, Buckethead or anything else suck or something.

I do think Paul Tobias was a joke joining the band though. His presence really messed things up in the mid 90s. That is fact. Use common sense on that general thought, and Duff, Matt and Slash all had issues with him.

Then she'll act like I'm some kind of idiot for saying he helped break them up?

O M G

No, I wouldn't call you an idiot- but if the shoe fits feel free to put it on.

There are a multitude of reasons GNR imploded when it did, it isn't as simplistic as you are trying desperately to paint it.

Here's what Axl said about Paul- that's good enough for me.
Paul actually contributed a great deal-

Axl-

The public gets a different story from the other guys ? Slash, Duff, Matt - who have their own agendas. The original intentions between Paul and myself were that Paul was going to help me for as long as it took to get this thing together in whatever capacity that he could help me in. So when he first was brought into this, he was brought in as a writer to work with Slash.

At the time those guys never suggested one name. Nobody else. Ever. Paul was one of the best people we knew who was both available and capable of complimenting Slash?s style.

You could bring in a better guitar player than Paul. You could bring in a monster. I tried putting Zakk Wylde with Slash and that didn?t work. It brought out some interesting things in Slash but it was a different approach that ended up being overpowering and didn?t bring out the best in Slash. It brought out some interesting things and it would?ve worked to do some songs.

But Paul was only interested in complimenting Slash, laying down a foundation of a riff or something. That would accent or encourage Slash's lead playing. Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn?t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash. He is and this is the bottom line a good man and that's the reality behind things. That doesn't change what took place with old Guns. I feel that some of the recordings we did in that limited amount of time had some of the best playing that Slash had done at least since Illusions. I was there. I know what I heard and it was pretty exciting.
[...]

Paul helped us a lot in the writing and the recording of this record and to me was a vital part of not only the band but also my life. The world tour really wasn?t his cup of tea whereas he's much more comfortable in a studio setting [GN'R press release with Axl interview; gnronline.com, 2002]

What you are missing is that Paul never should of been brought in. He doesn't get a free pass cause he wrote 1 song on UYI I and knew Axl. He was clearly a very average guitar player. Axl fired Gilby without asking anyone. ANd just plugged Huge in. Clearly against both of their wishes. That is something you're missing badly.

I never said it was clear and easy to point out. It is very complicated. Axl Rose is the main issue with the original breakup. That is clear. Anyone that thinks anything else is just silly.

Only one silly here is you, thinking your anti- Axl agenda is going to be accepted here- I can assure you it won't.

The breakup was due to numerous internal and external factors that were occurring at the time- it isn't as simple as you try and make it.

Pressure, conflict, outside influences, events and egos were all at play causing the implosion.

I suggest you invent a new narrative.

[DeN]

"Bands are like families that go through uncomfortable growing pains, and if it happens all at once, it's just too much to handle."

Dave Grohl

[Thorned Rose]

lmao 

At this point is doesn't actually matter. Yet I just can't get over how general you are with it all.

I'm not anti-Axl at all. He's great. Hell I get thrashed sometimes from people that don't like him. He is a top 5 ALL-TIME frontman. He's brilliant.

That doesn't mean that I don't blame him for things. While none of this matters now because they are back together (some of them at least)... it does matter in how you are.

You interest me because I know you're not trolling about things... and what you post you actually think. That blows my mind. I've never met anyone that has such a "be all, do all, love all... enjoy all... EQUAL acceptance" of Guns N' Roses.

It is very clearly 2 different bands. It is clear. I like them both but you CAN'T lump it all together.

No matter what you think, or anyone else it is very reasonable to think of Guns N' Roses as 2 separate things. Why?

I could list several reasons why, but you won't get it. You'll just give me tasteless bland soup on why you think what you think.

If any person was ever a member in Gn'R you just love them. Without any reason. That is fine I guess. No problem with that. The problem is in which you don't see yourself, and that is what actually has happened over the years. The legacy and the everlasting image of the band.

Does Buckethead, Thal, Finck, Ashba, Tobias get the same credit as Slash/Izzy?

Hell no! Why? Cause they all were in the band on and off so many times and did 1 album. ONE. You can't group them in the same league.

Ashba was a touring guitarist Ems. Finck maybe you could exclude from that list, but he was so on and off... how many times did he leave and rejoin? Buckethead was in the band like what 5 years? 6 years? Thal is great but he didn't accomplish that much.

My problem with NU Gn'R while it was very good is that too many people came and went and the result was 1 album.

1 album. While it is very good album doesn't mean they get lumped together with the fuckign AFD and UYI era. 1987-1993 is what it was all about really. You think of it as all equal.

Just because Axl Rose pushed everyone out, and kept the name for being a crybaby about a contract he forced them to sign... and made up a new band that evolved like 3 times with guitarists doesn't mean that 1998-2014 Guns N' Roses is the SAME as the old lineup.

If you think so fine. That doesn't mean that it makes sense. What I've just typed makes perfect sense to anyone with common sense.

DOn't you wish you could buy common sense Ems?

I bet.

[EmilyGNR]

lmao 

At this point is doesn't actually matter. Yet I just can't get over how general you are with it all.

I'm not anti-Axl at all. He's great. Hell I get thrashed sometimes from people that don't like him. He is a top 5 ALL-TIME frontman. He's brilliant.

That doesn't mean that I don't blame him for things. While none of this matters now because they are back together (some of them at least)... it does matter in how you are.

You interest me because I know you're not trolling about things... and what you post you actually think. That blows my mind. I've never met anyone that has such a "be all, do all, love all... enjoy all... EQUAL acceptance" of Guns N' Roses.

It is very clearly 2 different bands. It is clear. I like them both but you CAN'T lump it all together.

No matter what you think, or anyone else it is very reasonable to think of Guns N' Roses as 2 separate things. Why?

I could list several reasons why, but you won't get it. You'll just give me tasteless bland soup on why you think what you think.

If any person was ever a member in Gn'R you just love them. Without any reason. That is fine I guess. No problem with that. The problem is in which you don't see yourself, and that is what actually has happened over the years. The legacy and the everlasting image of the band.

Does Buckethead, Thal, Finck, Ashba, Tobias get the same credit as Slash/Izzy?

Hell no! Why? Cause they all were in the band on and off so many times and did 1 album. ONE. You can't group them in the same league.

Ashba was a touring guitarist Ems. Finck maybe you could exclude from that list, but he was so on and off... how many times did he leave and rejoin? Buckethead was in the band like what 5 years? 6 years? Thal is great but he didn't accomplish that much.

My problem with NU Gn'R while it was very good is that too many people came and went and the result was 1 album.

1 album. While it is very good album doesn't mean they get lumped together with the fuckign AFD and UYI era. 1987-1993 is what it was all about really. You think of it as all equal.

Just because Axl Rose pushed everyone out, and kept the name for being a crybaby about a contract he forced them to sign... and made up a new band that evolved like 3 times with guitarists doesn't mean that 1998-2014 Guns N' Roses is the SAME as the old lineup.

If you think so fine. That doesn't mean that it makes sense. What I've just typed makes perfect sense to anyone with common sense.

DOn't you wish you could buy common sense Ems?

I bet.

Your continued personal attacks don't strengthen you little points- how old are you, seriously? 12?

I have enjoyed every lineup and every album from GNR- of course the writing credits and contributions from members vary- but that has absolutely no bearing on my appreciation of the band.

There is no line of demarcation or segregation on GNR albums for me- they are all GNR.

I think it's ironic that some little fanboy on an internet forum would refer to Axl as a "crybaby" he has accomplished more with his life than you ever will.

Continue with the name calling and see where that gets you.

[D-GenerationX]

I think it's ironic that some little fanboy on an internet forum would refer to Axl as a "crybaby" he has accomplished more with his life than you ever will.

I bet your Dad could also beat up his Dad.

[Thorned Rose]

LoL...

you've been using the "how old are you" theme from the get go chick. Let it go. I use a lot of factual info to back up what I'm saying. It isn't making me any younger that is for sure.

After Slash/Duff/Matt left the band... NOTHING until early 2001. That's 3 years.

no touring at all from 2003-2006. almost 3 more years. a couple cnacelled tours. and CD didn't hit the shelves until 2008

It wasn't the same band post 1998. I guess you keep on using your illusions with it all lol. 

this right here... shows that you're a Axl clown/fangirl             

I think it's ironic that some little fanboy on an internet forum would refer to Axl as a "crybaby" he has accomplished more with his life than you ever will.

He was a crybaby and wanted control. It is well documented. He did everything in his power to make life miserable for the older guys... and get the name. He did. with child like antics.

All that trouble to get the name Guns N' Roses then do little to nothing with it in the end. The tours were great from 2006 onwards, but it hardly seems like he did that much.

And yes a iconic rock n roll star, and one of the best frontmen ever... and one of my favorite singers all of time that wrote some of my favorite songs... HAS accomplished more than me.

so what? lmao.

[GypsySoul]

.... about a contract he forced them to sign...

The story about anyone being forced to sign over the GNR name rights has since been debunked by all the parties involved.


My favorite GNR album is Chinese Democracy 
It's the only GNR album that I can name all the songs on it and know a good portion of the lyrics to those songs. 

[Thorned Rose]

I think it's ironic that some little fanboy on an internet forum would refer to Axl as a "crybaby" he has accomplished more with his life than you ever will.

I bet your Dad could also beat up his Dad.

pipebomb

nice dude 

[EmilyGNR]

I think it's ironic that some little fanboy on an internet forum would refer to Axl as a "crybaby" he has accomplished more with his life than you ever will.

I bet your Dad could also beat up his Dad.

Stooping to new depths to protect your little minion?

How sweet. 

[EmilyGNR]

LoL...

you've been using the "how old are you" theme from the get go chick. Let it go. I use a lot of factual info to back up what I'm saying. It isn't making me any younger that is for sure.

After Slash/Duff/Matt left the band... NOTHING until early 2001. That's 3 years.

no touring at all from 2003-2006. almost 3 more years. a couple cnacelled tours. and CD didn't hit the shelves until 2008

It wasn't the same band post 1998. I guess you keep on using your illusions with it all lol. 

this right here... shows that you're a Axl clown/fangirl             

I think it's ironic that some little fanboy on an internet forum would refer to Axl as a "crybaby" he has accomplished more with his life than you ever will.

He was a crybaby and wanted control. It is well documented. He did everything in his power to make life miserable for the older guys... and get the name. He did. with child like antics.

All that trouble to get the name Guns N' Roses then do little to nothing with it in the end. The tours were great from 2006 onwards, but it hardly seems like he did that much.

And yes a iconic rock n roll star, and one of the best frontmen ever... and one of my favorite singers all of time that wrote some of my favorite songs... HAS accomplished more than me.

so what? lmao.

Nobody is a "crybaby" you are pathetic with the namecalling and apparently have zero knowledge of what really went on.

Nobody signed contracts under duress - that is illegal.

Here is Axl talking about it in the 2008 chats-

Q: We learnt in the press, that you asked the former members to sign a paper giving up the rights to the GUNS N' ROSES name and threatening not to go on stage unless they co-operated. Bullshit?

Axl: "So let's start here? the whole 'Axl wouldn't go on stage' yada yada? is complete and utter crap. Never happened, all made up, fallacy and fantasy. Not one single solitary thread of truth to it. Had that been the case, I would've have been cremated years ago legally, could've cleaned me out for the name and damages. It's called under duress with extenuating circumstances. In fact, the time that was mentioned, the attorneys were all in Europe with us dealing with Adler [original GUNS N' ROSES drummer Steven Adler] depositions.

"Couldn't talk sooner as it could have jeopardized whatever nonsense was going on.

"When GUNS renegotiated our contract with Geffen, I had the bit about the name added in as protection for myself as I had come up with the name and then originally started the band with it. It had more to do with management than the band, as our then-manager was always tryin' to convince someone they should fire me. As I had stopped speaking with him, he sensed his days were numbered and was bending any ear he could along with attempting to sell our renegotiation out for a personal payday from Geffen.

"It was added to the contract and everyone signed off on it. It wasn't hidden in fine print, etc., as you had to initial the section verifying you had acknowledged it.

"Now, at that time I didn't know or think about brand names or corporate value etc. All I knew is that I came in with the name and from day one everyone had agreed to it being mine should we break up and now it was in writing.

"I still didn't grasp any other issues until long after I'd left and formed a new partnership which was only an effort to salvage GUNS, not steal it."

"In my opinion, the reality of the shift and the public embarrassment and ridicule by others (which included a lot of not-so-on-the-level business types he was associating with at the time) for not contesting the rights to the brand name, were more than Slash [former GUNS N' ROSES guitarist] could openly face. Also, we aren't lawyers or formally business educated, so it was just a matter of all of us being na?ve and doing what we thought was right at the time. Slash was, in my opinion, being on the up and up in agreeing I had the rights, and I wasn't trying to be some snake in the grass pulling a fast one. The others could've cared less.

"But when the reality of the breakup hit and the strategy to have me crawl back was put into play, Slash had to save face and get business team and public support. Painting me as the one who held a crowd hostage forcing the others to sign over the name worked out pretty well in that regard. I'm the bad guy, and Duff [McKagan, ex-GUNS bassist], the fans and most importantly himself were the victims. Oh, and they had actually made the sacrifice for the crowd, the people, the fans at the show. But again? IT NEVER HAPPENED.

"Media and others ignorantly, wrongly and falsely harped on about it at mine and the fans' expense for years, and Slash has hoped to use all that to continually sue and have some sort of legal nonsense going on behind the scenes in an effort to reverse things. He wouldn't have been able to get the support and action on the part of his various team members over the years to do so if the truth were out there especially when the statute of limitations had run out years ago."


Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/axl-rose-why-i-am-continung-to-use-name-guns-n-roses/#yFvRCkOYFhw8e4O0.99