Def Leppard disses Guns N' Roses reunion

[Thorned Rose]

Good points.

[Bodhi]

Lol, Def Leppard.  Who's next?  Nelson or Warrant?  They are obviously trying to piggy back on the biggest story in rock right now.  Now if you google Guns N Roses this Def Leppard thing comes up.  Well played.

[EmilyGNR]

You really need some new stuff...

I like the Post 1997 Guns N' Roses. I saw them live. They were just amazing. I think CD is one of the most underrated albums ever.

You are simply giving Axl Rose too much credit. Yeah I'm glad he continued on too. That isn't in question.

You just tried to turn Axl burning down bridges in the old Gn'R and ignoring that... into that you give him credit for New Gn'R?

What is the point is that? You just won't acknowledge that he screwed up the old band in the first place. It's clear that he had the most to do with it.

You even made "quit" stick out. It means nothing. We know why they quit lol

Its all good. They are back together. Should be great.

I think GNR imploded for a variety of reasons, and I find it very narrow minded and naive to heap all the blame on one person- when you aren't privvy to all the real details.

I don't require "new stuff" because I prefer actual fact and truth over half baked theories and assumptions.

In regards to New Music- The Money seems to be in touring in today's climate-
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-pop-stars-make-money-now-that-people-dont-buy-music-2014-5

[EmilyGNR]

I just wish Axl had done more with it and given it a real shot. I think that's a bigger gripe than the break-up, to be honest.

It's crazy that both incarnations of his band have a serious case of what might have been.  Different levels, but same general concept.

Only in certain "fans" perceptions.

[D-GenerationX]

Emily, there will always be safety in never taking a position.

"Not for me to say".  "That's up to them".  "I enjoy whatever I get".

All fine answers.  But about as milquetoast as it gets.

No, I don't think Axl maximized his chances or really wore it in his sleeve.  That's simply my opinion though. No one is claiming it as fact.

Is yours that you think he did?  No.  You roll with some variation of "not my place to say."

What a profile in courage.

[EmilyGNR]

Emily, there will always be safety in never taking a position.

"Not for me to say".  "That's up to them".  "I enjoy whatever I get".

All fine answers.  But about as milquetoast as it gets.

No, I don't think Axl maximized his chances or really wore it in his sleeve.  That's simply my opinion though. No one is claiming it as fact.

Is yours that you think he did?  No.  You roll with some variation of "not my place to say."

What a profile in courage.

Hard to believe that there would be actual GNR supporters on a GNR fan forum- foreign concept to you, I'm sure.

I support what the band does, I'm not a member of your "critical thinkers and negative minions" club.

We play on very different teams.

[D-GenerationX]

Hard to believe that there would be actual GNR supporters on a GNR fan forum- foreign concept to you, I'm sure.

That's such a phony argument.

[EmilyGNR]

Hard to believe that there would be actual GNR supporters on a GNR fan forum- foreign concept to you, I'm sure.

That's such a phony argument.

How exactly is it a phony argument to state the truth?

This is a GNR Forum, I- and others are actually positive and support the band and  aren't among the negative, toxic whiny complainer contingent.

Sorry that blows your mind, or is beyond your comprehension.

[Thorned Rose]

Emily just lumps Gn'Rs trouble into one big pile of dust and acts like its all equal.

It is quite obvious that Axl had the most direct reflection on Guns N' Roses issues with making the next record, and going further and onward.

I can list multiple things. I already have listed some to support my claim. It isn't my "opinion" it is history.

And yes DX I agree... she tends not to take a position, and in generalized with it all to be safe.

What a sad way to be. She's just very difficult to discuss anything with. If you look at all of her posts MOST of them are arguing something without any true logic.

[EmilyGNR]

Emily just lumps Gn'Rs trouble into one big pile of dust and acts like its all equal.

It is quite obvious that Axl had the most direct reflection on Guns N' Roses issues with making the next record, and going further and onward.

I can list multiple things. I already have listed some to support my claim. It isn't my "opinion" it is history.

And yes DX I agree... she tends not to take a position, and in generalized with it all to be safe.

What a sad way to be. She's just very difficult to discuss anything with. If you look at all of her posts MOST of them are arguing something without any true logic.

Wrong, you seem to have a clear anti-Axl bias and want to demonize him and pile all the blame there when it honestly is so much more complicated than that.

You are entitled to an opinion, you aren't entitled to your own facts.

I'm not the one mentioning "post counts" here- so you really don't want to get into who is spewing juvenile nonsense.

[D-GenerationX]

Hard to believe that there would be actual GNR supporters on a GNR fan forum- foreign concept to you, I'm sure.

That's such a phony argument.

How exactly is it a phony argument to state the truth?

Well, try stating the truth and we'll see how that goes.  Mix it up some.

Every single person here is a fan.  Deputizing yourself to determine who is or isn't isn't only laughable on it's face, your "logic" to determine such is not exactly airtight.

Me saying I don't think Axl really maximized his chances the past 15 years doesn't make me a lesser fan.  Conversely, you accepting any old thing you are given and labeling it all amazing doesn't mean you should be knighted.

The whole argument is phony.  Its not real.  It's fantasy.

[D-GenerationX]

And yes DX I agree... she tends not to take a position, and in generalized with it all to be safe.

Which is lame.  And in her defense, she's not the only one that does this.  I don't want to single her out on this, totally.

Thing that gets me is that her and other such "supportive fans" sure have an odd way of showing it.

Quick example.  I'll be shocked if another album ever comes out.  Pretty open about it.  This gets pushback.

But pushback in terms of a counterargument that takes the opposing viewpoint, that being that they do think it will come out?

Doesn't happen.  Its all vague "we'll just have to see" or "I'll just enjoy what we have".  What is that?  Those aren't answers.

Honestly, in my opinion, it just speaks to a lack of courage.  I may wind up being wrong.  If I am, we deal with it.  But the people that give me the most grief don't have that same sense of conviction.  They don't want to have to deal with sticking their neck out and being proven wrong.

Or...the dirty little secret...they don't totally believe it coming out either, but would never dare to vocalize it.  Can't be putting that on paper to be referenced later.  We can't even get straight answers on a favorite line-up for the same reason.  "I like them all."  "They are all equally great."

Weak.   

[EmilyGNR]

Hard to believe that there would be actual GNR supporters on a GNR fan forum- foreign concept to you, I'm sure.

That's such a phony argument.

How exactly is it a phony argument to state the truth?

Well, try stating the truth and we'll see how that goes.  Mix it up some.

Every single person here is a fan.  Deputizing yourself to determine who is or isn't isn't only laughable on it's face, your "logic" to determine such is not exactly airtight.

Me saying I don't think Axl really maximized his chances the past 15 years doesn't make me a lesser fan.  Conversely, you accepting any old thing you are given and labeling it all amazing doesn't mean you should be knighted.

The whole argument is phony.  Its not real.  It's fantasy.

Haha  It's my opinion that some people are not fans but rather "fans" based on their history.

You know, opinion- like you are so fond of stating as fact.

It's amazing how some "fans" think the supportive positive fans are somehow out of place on a GNR Fan forum. 

[EmilyGNR]

And yes DX I agree... she tends not to take a position, and in generalized with it all to be safe.

Which is lame.  And in her defense, she's not the only one that does this.  I don't want to single her out on this, totally.

Thing that gets me is that her and other such "supportive fans" sure have an odd way of showing it.

Quick example.  I'll be shocked if another album ever comes out.  Pretty open about it.  This gets pushback.

But pushback in terms of a counterargument that takes the opposing viewpoint, that being that they do think it will come out?

Doesn't happen.  Its all vague "we'll just have to see" or "I'll just enjoy what we have".  What is that?  Those aren't answers.

Honestly, in my opinion, it just speaks to a lack of courage.  I may wind up being wrong.  If I am, we deal with it.  But the people that give me the most grief don't have that same sense of conviction.  They don't want to have to deal with sticking their neck out and being proven wrong.

Or...the dirty little secret...they don't totally believe it coming out either, but would never dare to vocalize it.  Can't be putting that on paper to be referenced later.  We can't even get straight answers on a favorite line-up for the same reason.  "I like them all."  "They are all equally great."

Weak.   

Oh I do believe there will be another album at some point and I fully intend to say I told you so.

It's hilarious how you attempt to paint your trolling and negative whining as somehow "noble"

I do like all lineups, someone's opinion can't be discounted simply because you don't like it.

[D-GenerationX]

It's amazing how some "fans" think the supportive positive fans are somehow out of place on a GNR Fan forum. 

I don't think anyone is out of place here.  Have said many times, at the end of the day, we are all on the same team.

I'm not the one sowing discord around here.  That's your crusade, not mine.

[D-GenerationX]

I do like all lineups, someone's opinion can't be discounted simply because you don't like it.

Hahahahaha.  That's fucking beautiful, coming from you.

It's times like this I wonder if you are the wind-up account so many say you are.

[Thorned Rose]

She probably is. Almost everything I say on this forum she has a view the opposite.

What I normally say is with logic and common sense. I'm not on here saying that Robin, Buckethead or anything else suck or something.

I do think Paul Tobias was a joke joining the band though. His presence really messed things up in the mid 90s. That is fact. Use common sense on that general thought, and Duff, Matt and Slash all had issues with him.

Then she'll act like I'm some kind of idiot for saying he helped break them up?

O M G

[EmilyGNR]

It's amazing how some "fans" think the supportive positive fans are somehow out of place on a GNR Fan forum. 

I don't think anyone is out of place here.  Have said many times, at the end of the day, we are all on the same team.

I'm not the one sowing discord around here.  That's your crusade, not mine.

I disagree, you and I are very much on different teams.

I think you do sow your fair share of discord- not to mention whiny negativity.

Your posting history proves what you are really about.

[EmilyGNR]

I do like all lineups, someone's opinion can't be discounted simply because you don't like it.

Hahahahaha.  That's fucking beautiful, coming from you.

It's times like this I wonder if you are the wind-up account so many say you are.

I say I like all lineups and don't have a favorite- why exactly do you think I'm not allowed to like what I like?

Your double standards are amazing.

[EmilyGNR]

She probably is. Almost everything I say on this forum she has a view the opposite.

What I normally say is with logic and common sense. I'm not on here saying that Robin, Buckethead or anything else suck or something.

I do think Paul Tobias was a joke joining the band though. His presence really messed things up in the mid 90s. That is fact. Use common sense on that general thought, and Duff, Matt and Slash all had issues with him.

Then she'll act like I'm some kind of idiot for saying he helped break them up?

O M G

No, I wouldn't call you an idiot- but if the shoe fits feel free to put it on.

There are a multitude of reasons GNR imploded when it did, it isn't as simplistic as you are trying desperately to paint it.

Here's what Axl said about Paul- that's good enough for me.
Paul actually contributed a great deal-

Axl-

The public gets a different story from the other guys ? Slash, Duff, Matt - who have their own agendas. The original intentions between Paul and myself were that Paul was going to help me for as long as it took to get this thing together in whatever capacity that he could help me in. So when he first was brought into this, he was brought in as a writer to work with Slash.

At the time those guys never suggested one name. Nobody else. Ever. Paul was one of the best people we knew who was both available and capable of complimenting Slash?s style.

You could bring in a better guitar player than Paul. You could bring in a monster. I tried putting Zakk Wylde with Slash and that didn?t work. It brought out some interesting things in Slash but it was a different approach that ended up being overpowering and didn?t bring out the best in Slash. It brought out some interesting things and it would?ve worked to do some songs.

But Paul was only interested in complimenting Slash, laying down a foundation of a riff or something. That would accent or encourage Slash's lead playing. Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn?t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash. He is and this is the bottom line a good man and that's the reality behind things. That doesn't change what took place with old Guns. I feel that some of the recordings we did in that limited amount of time had some of the best playing that Slash had done at least since Illusions. I was there. I know what I heard and it was pretty exciting.
[...]

Paul helped us a lot in the writing and the recording of this record and to me was a vital part of not only the band but also my life. The world tour really wasn?t his cup of tea whereas he's much more comfortable in a studio setting [GN'R press release with Axl interview; gnronline.com, 2002]