BBC Four to Air The Story of Guns N' Roses

[Annie]

I would take anything that Zutgaut guy said with a grain of salt. 
IMO he really crossed the line with some of the stuff he said.
People like him twist people's words.

[Thorned Rose]

Yeah sounds like some crazy stuff. He does and did in the show seem credible.

Seems like a lot of this was filmed summer 2015.

[Ericnor]

Just watched it. Thought it was really good. Nice to see snippets of shows I had never seen before. The crow thing was weird.. How can Tom Z believe that is Axl perception of Slash's "death"? Has Axl said something about these things in an interview or something? I must have missed out on that.

-Eirik

[Annie]

Just watched it. Thought it was really good. Nice to see snippets of shows I had never seen before. The crow thing was weird.. How can Tom Z believe that is Axl perception of Slash's "death"? Has Axl said something about these things in an interview or something? I must have missed out on that.

-Eirik

I am pretty sure that Zutgaut made this up or totally misinterpreted something Axl said.
The things people say when talking about famous people with whom they have no current contact never ceases to amaze me.  And not in a good way 

[Spirit]

Just watched it. Thought it was really good. Nice to see snippets of shows I had never seen before. The crow thing was weird.. How can Tom Z believe that is Axl perception of Slash's "death"? Has Axl said something about these things in an interview or something? I must have missed out on that.

-Eirik

I am pretty sure that Zutgaut made this up or totally misinterpreted something Axl said.
The things people say when talking about famous people with whom they have no current contact never ceases to amaze me.  And not in a good way 

Do you think this story is so far fetched given Axl's interest in the supernatural?

I mean, he had Yoda as a spiritual guide, giving him advice about what people to trust. He believed (believes?) in past lives.


I'm not judging him on this. It's not anything I believe in, but I don't have a problem with people having this sort of interest.

[Annie]

I have studied metaphysical subjects for many years with some of the best teachers in the world. 
Most people don't really understand it and they twist and misquote things I say all the time. 

That Sharon person did not have a lot of integrity.  People like her give truly good spiritual teachers a bad name.
Zutgaut does not strike me as someone who can grasp deep spiritual truths.
He would have never said some of the things he said if he did.

[Spirit]

I have studied metaphysical subjects for many years with some of the best teachers in the world. 
Most people don't really understand it and they twist and misquote things I say all the time. 

That Sharon person did not have a lot of integrity.  People like her give truly good spiritual teachers a bad name.
Zutgaut does not strike me as someone who can grasp deep spiritual truths.
He would have never said some of the things he said if he did.

But this isn't about deep spiritual truths, it's about what Axl might believe, or believed.

Even though Sharon didn't have a lot of integrity, she was still a close friend of Axl and it seemed like he had belief in her.

[Annie]

Zutgaut just should have kept quiet about some of the things he said.  Another case of somebody wanting attention for them self via once being associated with someone famous.  Lots of people are like that.  Doesn't make it right.

[Spirit]

Zutgaut just should have kept quiet about some of the things he said.  Another case of somebody wanting attention for them self via once being associated with someone famous.  Lots of people are like that.  Doesn't make it right.

I can agree he didn't have to say that, and other things, in the documentary.

But, no real grounds to say that he made anything up, in my opinion.

[Annie]

Zutgaut just should have kept quiet about some of the things he said.  Another case of somebody wanting attention for them self via once being associated with someone famous.  Lots of people are like that.  Doesn't make it right.

I can agree he didn't have to say that, and other things, in the documentary.

But, no real grounds to say that he made anything up, in my opinion.

That's fair enough.  I just think he really didn't understand what Axl was all about and put his own spin and interpretation on certain events.

[Spirit]

Zutgaut just should have kept quiet about some of the things he said.  Another case of somebody wanting attention for them self via once being associated with someone famous.  Lots of people are like that.  Doesn't make it right.

I can agree he didn't have to say that, and other things, in the documentary.

But, no real grounds to say that he made anything up, in my opinion.

That's fair enough.  I just think he really didn't understand what Axl was all about and put his own spin and interpretation on certain events.

Yeah we can only speculate as to how Zutaut came to know about different things. It could have been someone else telling him Axl said so and so, twisting it. It could be a misinterpretation of something Axl said directly to him or it could be something Axl genuinely believed.

I wonder though, if some of the interviews in the documentary would have been different if they had been conducted 6 months later, and they had known Axl, Slash and Duff was back together. Probably.

Matt would probably have dialed back a bit.. 

[The Wight Gunner]

Zutgaut just should have kept quiet about some of the things he said.  Another case of somebody wanting attention for them self via once being associated with someone famous.  Lots of people are like that.  Doesn't make it right.

I can agree he didn't have to say that, and other things, in the documentary.

But, no real grounds to say that he made anything up, in my opinion.

That's fair enough.  I just think he really didn't understand what Axl was all about and put his own spin and interpretation on certain events.

Yeah we can only speculate as to how Zutaut came to know about different things. It could have been someone else telling him Axl said so and so, twisting it. It could be a misinterpretation of something Axl said directly to him or it could be something Axl genuinely believed.

I wonder though, if some of the interviews in the documentary would have been different if they had been conducted 6 months later, and they had known Axl, Slash and Duff was back together. Probably.

Matt would probably have dialed back a bit.. 

Yeah I thought that Matt came across as a bit of arsehole with his snide attitude at times, something that he might come to regret...

[Annie]

Zutgaut just should have kept quiet about some of the things he said.  Another case of somebody wanting attention for them self via once being associated with someone famous.  Lots of people are like that.  Doesn't make it right.

I can agree he didn't have to say that, and other things, in the documentary.

But, no real grounds to say that he made anything up, in my opinion.

That's fair enough.  I just think he really didn't understand what Axl was all about and put his own spin and interpretation on certain events.

Yeah we can only speculate as to how Zutaut came to know about different things. It could have been someone else telling him Axl said so and so, twisting it. It could be a misinterpretation of something Axl said directly to him or it could be something Axl genuinely believed.

I wonder though, if some of the interviews in the documentary would have been different if they had been conducted 6 months later, and they had known Axl, Slash and Duff was back together. Probably.

Matt would probably have dialed back a bit.. 

Yeah I thought that Matt came across as a bit of arsehole with his snide attitude at times, something that he might come to regret...

I doubt it. From what I read about him in Duff's latest book he would like to be the man in charge.

[Wooody]

Also, about the whole Guns N Roses name. (Im too lazy to find go and find it)

Apparently some Exec came up with the idea to have Slash and Duff resign to the name GNR, and Axl would keep it. However something was said that Axl would keep  the name but lose power to make decisions about Guns N Roses as a business company. I guess that means some execs would then decide on GNR stuff.

The exec that came up with the idea said he came up with it because he never thought Axl would ever agree with it, as a way to keep the band together.

However Axl agreed, the name was his, but in keeping the name he lost control of GNR.

Maybe that's what came back to haunt him years later when the Execs said Chinese Democracy was not good, and to keep working on it.

It finally explains stuff for me, it explains why Axl appeared to be such a prisoner.

[Spirit]

Apparently some Exec came up with the idea to have Slash and Duff resign to the name GNR, and Axl would keep it. However something was said that Axl would keep  the name but lose power to make decisions about Guns N Roses as a business company. I guess that means some execs would then decide on GNR stuff.

I'm thinking that refers to the partnership which originally was "Guns N' Roses Music".

Duff and Slash, along with Axl, still had a say in how the back catalog would be used. So, Axl got the name, but really only the name, not complete control of the music.

[Wooody]

Apparently some Exec came up with the idea to have Slash and Duff resign to the name GNR, and Axl would keep it. However something was said that Axl would keep  the name but lose power to make decisions about Guns N Roses as a business company. I guess that means some execs would then decide on GNR stuff.

I'm thinking that refers to the partnership which originally was "Guns N' Roses Music".

Duff and Slash, along with Axl, still had a say in how the back catalog would be used. So, Axl got the name, but really only the name, not complete control of the music.

That's the thing. Its like selling your soul to the devil 

[Spirit]

I'm sure Jarmo is thrilled that the name discussion is on again... 

[Wooody]

I'm sure Jarmo is thrilled that the name discussion is on again... 

Well, I think discussions coming up again and again are healthy. Im sure if you've been here since day one you've heard it all and you get bored at reading  the same thing over and over again. But Ive been here for a while, and Ive read a lot. Im not obsessive (although at a certain moment I was) and I had never really and fully understood the name thing.
Now its clear. Everybody in the band  lost on the name thing, Axl included.

[Thorned Rose]

Axl fucked Slash and Duff out of the name and now he holds ALL THE CARDS in any future releases...

awesome.

[Voodoochild]

Maybe that's what came back to haunt him years later when the Execs said Chinese Democracy was not good, and to keep working on it.

It finally explains stuff for me, it explains why Axl appeared to be such a prisoner.

Maybe. Axl himself said it was "no short of a miracle" to have the album released.

But it doesn't explain everything in the making of Chinese Democracy, because the album could be released with almost the same songs in 2002, 2004 and at the very least 2006. I just don't know if they kept adding stuff because they had extra time or they had extra time because they kept adding stuff.