Chinese Democracy's Legacy

[EmilyGNR]

I still have CD in my car and put in on occasionally.

What I have found with alot of my friends is that the album has grown on them over time.

Good observation Mysteron,
I keep a copy in my car too and many of my friends have grown to love it- with no overblown hype and no biased voices the music speaks for itself beautifully.

[CherryGarcia]

I like a lot of the songs in theory. I think the live versions absolutely kill the album versions. Tommy once said something along the lines of that the label basically had them keep redoing the songs and adding stuff on until it was just a "dense layer of instrumentation" - and he's sadly right. There's a lot of great ideas and beautiful melodies, but it's buried under so much stuff...I wish we would've gotten a "stripped down" CD. The demos from circa 1999 or so that leaked are actually great songs.

CD - Great rocker, doesn't need that overly long intro. I think Ron's rhythm parts add too much.
 
Shackler's - great song, catchy, needed a faster tempo and a bit rawer mix to be perfect

Better - The demo from 2006 is perfect

Street of Dreams - The version from Rio 2001 is beautiful, and I wish they'd kept this arrangment.

If The World - Again, great song but would've been better stripped down

Catcher in the Rye - again, great song but the 99 demo is better (and no, not because of Brian May)

Scraped - I love this song, except for the intro. Groovy, heavy rock - this is kinda what I was hoping all of CD would be.

Riad - Like this song a lot, but prefer the rawer 2002 live versions

Sorry - Don't like this song at all.

I.R.S. - Good song but I much prefer the grungier '99 demo

Madagascar - Again, Rio 2001 is the best version of this song. Axl's falsetto vocals I feel fit this song better than the rasp he uses on the studio version

This I Love - Love this song a lot, but feel the guitar solo wasn't necessary

Prostitute - It's okay...Not my favorite.

[Annie]

Can I say that I totally disagree with the above post. CD is a total masterpiece just the way it is. Still love to play it in my car.

[Silex]

I think a lot of people had listened too much of either the demo versions or the live versions of the songs before the actual studio album was finally released. So of course what you're used to hear is better/rawrer whatever.. than the final version is/was. But that being said I do agree that some songs (CD, Scraped, Madagascar) work better live than studio but that's only a good thing IMO. And I've found that Chi-Dem works best either on vinyl or/and with headphones. I hear new things everytime I listen to it that way. 

[COMAMOTIVE]

I like a lot of the songs in theory. I think the live versions absolutely kill the album versions. Tommy once said something along the lines of that the label basically had them keep redoing the songs and adding stuff on until it was just a "dense layer of instrumentation" - and he's sadly right. There's a lot of great ideas and beautiful melodies, but it's buried under so much stuff...I wish we would've gotten a "stripped down" CD. The demos from circa 1999 or so that leaked are actually great songs.

CD - Great rocker, doesn't need that overly long intro. I think Ron's rhythm parts add too much.
 
Shackler's - great song, catchy, needed a faster tempo and a bit rawer mix to be perfect

Better - The demo from 2006 is perfect

Street of Dreams - The version from Rio 2001 is beautiful, and I wish they'd kept this arrangment.

If The World - Again, great song but would've been better stripped down

Catcher in the Rye - again, great song but the 99 demo is better (and no, not because of Brian May)

Scraped - I love this song, except for the intro. Groovy, heavy rock - this is kinda what I was hoping all of CD would be.

Riad - Like this song a lot, but prefer the rawer 2002 live versions

Sorry - Don't like this song at all.

I.R.S. - Good song but I much prefer the grungier '99 demo

Madagascar - Again, Rio 2001 is the best version of this song. Axl's falsetto vocals I feel fit this song better than the rasp he uses on the studio version

This I Love - Love this song a lot, but feel the guitar solo wasn't necessary

Prostitute - It's okay...Not my favorite.

THERE "WASN'T" A TIME?

[EmilyGNR]

I like a lot of the songs in theory. I think the live versions absolutely kill the album versions. Tommy once said something along the lines of that the label basically had them keep redoing the songs and adding stuff on until it was just a "dense layer of instrumentation" - and he's sadly right. There's a lot of great ideas and beautiful melodies, but it's buried under so much stuff...I wish we would've gotten a "stripped down" CD. The demos from circa 1999 or so that leaked are actually great songs.

CD - Great rocker, doesn't need that overly long intro. I think Ron's rhythm parts add too much.
 
Shackler's - great song, catchy, needed a faster tempo and a bit rawer mix to be perfect

Better - The demo from 2006 is perfect

Street of Dreams - The version from Rio 2001 is beautiful, and I wish they'd kept this arrangment.

If The World - Again, great song but would've been better stripped down

Catcher in the Rye - again, great song but the 99 demo is better (and no, not because of Brian May)

Scraped - I love this song, except for the intro. Groovy, heavy rock - this is kinda what I was hoping all of CD would be.

Riad - Like this song a lot, but prefer the rawer 2002 live versions

Sorry - Don't like this song at all.

I.R.S. - Good song but I much prefer the grungier '99 demo

Madagascar - Again, Rio 2001 is the best version of this song. Axl's falsetto vocals I feel fit this song better than the rasp he uses on the studio version

This I Love - Love this song a lot, but feel the guitar solo wasn't necessary

Prostitute - It's okay...Not my favorite.

THERE "WASN'T" A TIME?

Haha    Apparently not!

[CherryGarcia]

I like a lot of the songs in theory. I think the live versions absolutely kill the album versions. Tommy once said something along the lines of that the label basically had them keep redoing the songs and adding stuff on until it was just a "dense layer of instrumentation" - and he's sadly right. There's a lot of great ideas and beautiful melodies, but it's buried under so much stuff...I wish we would've gotten a "stripped down" CD. The demos from circa 1999 or so that leaked are actually great songs.

CD - Great rocker, doesn't need that overly long intro. I think Ron's rhythm parts add too much.
 
Shackler's - great song, catchy, needed a faster tempo and a bit rawer mix to be perfect

Better - The demo from 2006 is perfect

Street of Dreams - The version from Rio 2001 is beautiful, and I wish they'd kept this arrangment.

If The World - Again, great song but would've been better stripped down

Catcher in the Rye - again, great song but the 99 demo is better (and no, not because of Brian May)

Scraped - I love this song, except for the intro. Groovy, heavy rock - this is kinda what I was hoping all of CD would be.

Riad - Like this song a lot, but prefer the rawer 2002 live versions

Sorry - Don't like this song at all.

I.R.S. - Good song but I much prefer the grungier '99 demo

Madagascar - Again, Rio 2001 is the best version of this song. Axl's falsetto vocals I feel fit this song better than the rasp he uses on the studio version

This I Love - Love this song a lot, but feel the guitar solo wasn't necessary

Prostitute - It's okay...Not my favorite.

THERE "WASN'T" A TIME?

T.W.A.Time I like....BUT I don't like the new intro, or the general overproduction on pre-solo bits. On early demos for example you could hear the strings in the background very clearly, and they added a perfect dramatic effect to the song, but in the final mix they're buried. Also the demon vocals on "It was the wrong time" bits weren't necessary IMO.

[WAR41]

Hold on. This is about Chinese Democracy's legacy.

I'm not gonna have yet another thread turn into a Dead Horse topic....
Lately every other thread seems to turn into the kind of stuff we've discussed plenty in the last 10-15 years or so. Sometimes it's hard to tell there's actually any recent news.

Now, back on topic. 



/jarmo

But.... I was responding to what the legacy of Chinese Democracy is to me and explaining why.  Perhaps next time I will just say "Awesome" or "shitty" with no explanation  

I think the whole setlist conversation has ts place elsewhere.
Sorry that you find the setlist discussion interesting in 2016 and it's such a big part of the album's legacy for you.




/jarmo

Interesting in 2016?  Nope don't think I said that.  Such a big part of the album's legacy for me?  Nope didn't say that either.  Was simply responding to the topic about Chinese Democracy's legacy.  Don't know how we can't talk about past events when discussing the legacy of an album that was released in 2008. 

Honestly, why don't we just move all CD album & era discussions to Dead Horse anyway?  We are debating the legacy of an album from 2008 with members who are not even a part of the band anymore. 

[raindog]

Hold on. This is about Chinese Democracy's legacy.

I'm not gonna have yet another thread turn into a Dead Horse topic....
Lately every other thread seems to turn into the kind of stuff we've discussed plenty in the last 10-15 years or so. Sometimes it's hard to tell there's actually any recent news.

Now, back on topic. 



/jarmo

But.... I was responding to what the legacy of Chinese Democracy is to me and explaining why.  Perhaps next time I will just say "Awesome" or "shitty" with no explanation  

I think the whole setlist conversation has ts place elsewhere.
Sorry that you find the setlist discussion interesting in 2016 and it's such a big part of the album's legacy for you.




/jarmo

Interesting in 2016?  Nope don't think I said that.  Such a big part of the album's legacy for me?  Nope didn't say that either.  Was simply responding to the topic about Chinese Democracy's legacy.  Don't know how we can't talk about past events when discussing the legacy of an album that was released in 2008. 

Honestly, why don't we just move all CD album & era discussions to Dead Horse anyway?  We are debating the legacy of an album from 2008 with members who are not even a part of the band anymore. 

If members having left since it's recording is the criteria that disqualifies a record from discussion, we can't discuss anything GNR have ever released.

[jarmo]

Interesting in 2016?  Nope don't think I said that.  Such a big part of the album's legacy for me?  Nope didn't say that either.  Was simply responding to the topic about Chinese Democracy's legacy.  Don't know how we can't talk about past events when discussing the legacy of an album that was released in 2008. 

Honestly, why don't we just move all CD album & era discussions to Dead Horse anyway?  We are debating the legacy of an album from 2008 with members who are not even a part of the band anymore. 

Ok, I'll try to explain better.

"What do you think of album X after all these years?"
"I like it, that song is nice, this song blah blah blah but the shows had the same setlist for a decade"

Obviously it seems like the setlist is somehow connected to the album for you.
Would the legacy be better if you just had stayed at home instead of seeing those songs live? 





/jarmo

[Voodoochild]

I like a lot of the songs in theory. I think the live versions absolutely kill the album versions. Tommy once said something along the lines of that the label basically had them keep redoing the songs and adding stuff on until it was just a "dense layer of instrumentation" - and he's sadly right. There's a lot of great ideas and beautiful melodies, but it's buried under so much stuff...I wish we would've gotten a "stripped down" CD. The demos from circa 1999 or so that leaked are actually great songs.

CD - Great rocker, doesn't need that overly long intro. I think Ron's rhythm parts add too much.
 
Shackler's - great song, catchy, needed a faster tempo and a bit rawer mix to be perfect

Better - The demo from 2006 is perfect

Street of Dreams - The version from Rio 2001 is beautiful, and I wish they'd kept this arrangment.

If The World - Again, great song but would've been better stripped down

Catcher in the Rye - again, great song but the 99 demo is better (and no, not because of Brian May)

Scraped - I love this song, except for the intro. Groovy, heavy rock - this is kinda what I was hoping all of CD would be.

Riad - Like this song a lot, but prefer the rawer 2002 live versions

Sorry - Don't like this song at all.

I.R.S. - Good song but I much prefer the grungier '99 demo

Madagascar - Again, Rio 2001 is the best version of this song. Axl's falsetto vocals I feel fit this song better than the rasp he uses on the studio version

This I Love - Love this song a lot, but feel the guitar solo wasn't necessary

Prostitute - It's okay...Not my favorite.

I think both CD and Scraped intros are very Queen-ish. Just compare to One Vision and I Want It All.

[norway]

huh, cd-intro is queenish? Is like techno/electronic in my view.

[Voodoochild]

huh, cd-intro is queenish? Is like techno/electronic in my view.

The concept is not that different from the One Vision intro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cuXasbjhT8

[norway]

omagad, ur right

[Wooody]

omagad, ur right

 

I had the same reaction

[norway]

Would the legacy be better if you just had stayed at home instead of seeing those songs live?

I'm not gonna go. Festivals is like, uhm... some kind of feelgood-consentrationcamps. Cheap danish beer and the works. Hell if I want to experience that again.

Will sit home and watch instead. Still trying to forget rio11.

[Wooody]

Would the legacy be better if you just had stayed at home instead of seeing those songs live?

I'm not gonna go. Festivals is like, uhm... some kind of feelgood-consentrationcamps. Cheap danish beer and the works. Hell if I want to experience that again.

Will sit home and watch instead. Still trying to forget rio11.

I got Madagascar live. So No, the legacy is better with the live experience.

[Thorned Rose]

Hold on... these songs live have no bearing on the released album.

People don't go by a band's live performance of songs as their legacy. The album Chinese Democracy and it's legacy are directly tied to the actual album... ie  Compact Disc or Vinyl record.

Just because certain songs sound better live or whatever doesn't increase the album as a whole. I feel like this thread isn't what it should be. Yeah I think Madagascar is better live, but that doesn't influence my thinking on CD.

I think over time it will grow in this almost underground sort of way. Well if Gn'R do an actual reunion etc... the sales will pop for this album too.

[Virolec]

Hold on... these songs live have no bearing on the released album.

People don't go by a band's live performance of songs as their legacy. The album Chinese Democracy and it's legacy are directly tied to the actual album... ie  Compact Disc or Vinyl record.

Just because certain songs sound better live or whatever doesn't increase the album as a whole. I feel like this thread isn't what it should be. Yeah I think Madagascar is better live, but that doesn't influence my thinking on CD.

I think over time it will grow in this almost underground sort of way. Well if Gn'R do an actual reunion etc... the sales will pop for this album too.

I'm not wholly with you on that.  Some live performances are seen retrospectively as distilling the best (or, sometimes, worst) about an artist - either generally or at a certain point in their career.  Think of the Beatles' playing on Ed Sullivan or at Shea Stadium - both emblematic of them cracking America.  Or the Rooftop Concert, at the very end of their time together.  Elvis' 1968 Comeback Special, Bob Marley at the London Palladium... a lot of these gigs have become legendary performances that are just as important as records in the things that define a band's legacy - naturally they are more likely to have this status if they were recorded and are available as live albums or DVDs, or indeed as bootlegs.

I guess the question as it applies here is, does anything from the Chinese Democracy era have a similar function in the history of Guns N' Roses?  Maybe the Hammerstein gigs, or Rock in Rio III? 

[Thorned Rose]

You're reading into this too much I think.

Live recordings of shows aren't very accessible for alot of people sometimes. At the end of the day a band's albums on recorded physical or digital data will define them.

The CD of Chinese Democracy of Vinyl of it (however you listen) will define the legacy of the album.

No one is going to care about how the songs were performed live. They are pretty close to the same. Lets not kid ourselves here. Not like a version of Sorry is 5 times better live than the album version. Some songs might be a little better live, but that isn't going to change the way the album is percieved. The album stands on its own. That is what we are talking about.

I don't even know how Chinese Democracy in concert even gets involved with the Legacy.

Back on topic...

CD is an album I've not listened to in several weeks. Not because its good, but just because I'm more of an old Gn'R guy I think.

I still think it is AS GOOD as UYI stuff, and that isn't a bad thing.