Chinese Democracy's Legacy

[AtariLegend]

for quite a comprehensive reference, see this post http://www.chinesedemocracy.com/forum/index.php/topic,45008.0.html
it's possibly not 100% complete, as some more leaks are out there, but the most valuable info are links to first mentions about songs.

Not to hijack the thread and annoy anyone, however this is quite extensive list with references to almost every interview in regard to the sessions over the years and even used/published by Classic Rock magazine.

http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=5059

[Voodoochild]

You're telling me to Strip down the layers? I don't know how to do that?

No, haha. I was talking about whoever mixed the album.

On scrapped I believe they where playing with Cut n' paste creatively, it doesnt bother me, I actually think it was original and cool. Catcher does feel dense though with too much going on and I think its a perfect example of what Tommy was talking about.

I agree with Scraped, not with Catcher. If you compare to the demo with Brian May, the song was actually rearranged by Bumblefoot and Brain in its core, lefting only the backbones: Axl melodies/lyrics, Tommy bass line, Dizzy piano and some of Robin's lead (after the 1st solo and during the chorus). Then Brain reworked the drums and Bumble recorded almost all the rhythm guitar and solos. To me, it actually sounds a lot "cleaner" than other songs like Madagascar and TWAT with  mudded guitars.

for quite a comprehensive reference, see this post http://www.chinesedemocracy.com/forum/index.php/topic,45008.0.html
it's possibly not 100% complete, as some more leaks are out there, but the most valuable info are links to first mentions about songs.

There is one title there I can't believe anyone took it seriously:

Yorch: I love Oh my God, but it really sounds like a demo, why? I'm sure we all would love a new version.

Axl: Because that's all it was, only at the time having just got it together only Jimmy Iovine knew that who wanted it to sell their soundtrack. I saw segments of the movie which were good. As a whole later not so much but it wasn't ready yet then. I did write an experimental piece inspired by the bits I'd seen called "Daddy Can the Devil do Mommy and me?"

It's an obvious joke about that scene in the movie.

[zombux]

well, of what we know, the overhauled version of Oh My God sounds similar to the old release (damn, was that 17 YEARS AGO???), only with added very prominent guitar layers. or maybe just one layer, I don't remember it correctly.

[Voodoochild]

well, of what we know, the overhauled version of Oh My God sounds similar to the old release (damn, was that 17 YEARS AGO???), only with added very prominent guitar layers. or maybe just one layer, I don't remember it correctly.

That guitar layer was Bumble's. I think those leaked tracks were just a guide to the soundboard guy to send the right mix to Bumble's in-ear piece in a live performance - which as we all know didn't happen. But we did see some footage of the setlist rehearsed with Going Down, OMG and Silkworms.

[zombux]

hmmm you might be right, it really sounds like some in-ear mix, how could I forget the old times, when 2002 in-ear mix bootlegs were floating around and yup, it sounds very much like Bumble's guitar. about Going Down, I'm not sure how to think about the song. it's much different from all others. yes, there seems to be a prominent guitar, much like the other samples, but it sounds like it was recorded in completely different studio or even year. and even more - it sounds spot on, like it was recorded during short times, without numerous overhauls, re-recordings and added layers, as was the case of most other ChiDem songs.

[Voodoochild]

hmmm you might be right, it really sounds like some in-ear mix, how could I forget the old times, when 2002 in-ear mix bootlegs were floating around and yup, it sounds very much like Bumble's guitar. about Going Down, I'm not sure how to think about the song. it's much different from all others. yes, there seems to be a prominent guitar, much like the other samples, but it sounds like it was recorded in completely different studio or even year. and even more - it sounds spot on, like it was recorded during short times, without numerous overhauls, re-recordings and added layers, as was the case of most other ChiDem songs.

I don't know if we can really talk about leaks here, but well... I think Going Down is different in style, but it has as many layers as CD songs, and it's just a demo not properly mixed. It's just that the leak has poor sound quality, but I can hear Robin's guitar (intro riff duet with Bumble and end of the solo stretching to the chorus), Bucket (outro with Robin) and even DJ (I think the solo is a duet with Bumble). Also, there's some accoustic guitar and keys going on.

[zombux]

oh, I'm sorry. in case this talk is not allowed here, mods please delete this

[Drew]

As of now, I put Chinese Democracy as GN'R's fifth best album. Only a few songs that I enjoy listening to compared to the majority of songs I enjoy from the other albums. Overall, CD just isn't my genre/sound/type of music, but for everyone who places CD at the top or near the top of their album list, good for you and continue to enjoy listening.

[GeorgeSteele]

that is some really deep insight. i have never picked up on this aspect of the record, how the paradoxical themes and musical complexity were so complimentary to one another. very good find, thank you for that! this is an all around interesting thread.

also love comas posts about subjectivity and not worrying about what it means to anyone else. thats definitely something important to remember.

it reminds me of being a kid and liking something. someone else doesnt like it and says "why do you even like that?", and then you feel insecure because you dont really know why, you just do. next thing you know you're going along with it, "yeah, i guess it is kind of stupid." but someday you just have to grow up and be independent in your likes and dislikes.

Thank you sir!  Agreed, can't get caught up in opinion validation, but when in doubt, I am right and everyone else is wrong.   

Sorry everyone in advance, but I'm compelled to post this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfbKGY1z0yE   

[Wooody]

You're telling me to Strip down the layers? I don't know how to do that?

No, haha. I was talking about whoever mixed the album.

On scrapped I believe they where playing with Cut n' paste creatively, it doesnt bother me, I actually think it was original and cool. Catcher does feel dense though with too much going on and I think its a perfect example of what Tommy was talking about.

I agree with Scraped, not with Catcher. If you compare to the demo with Brian May, the song was actually rearranged by Bumblefoot and Brain in its core, lefting only the backbones: Axl melodies/lyrics, Tommy bass line, Dizzy piano and some of Robin's lead (after the 1st solo and during the chorus). Then Brain reworked the drums and Bumble recorded almost all the rhythm guitar and solos. To me, it actually sounds a lot "cleaner" than other songs like Madagascar and TWAT with  mudded guitars.

Maybe its the mix, Im under the impression that the vocals are drowned by the rhythm guitars. Maybe its the effect they gave the guitars. LIke a chorus effect or something. Like many people I prefer the Brian May version, though not necessarily the solo. Im listening again right now: There's also too many background vocals and vocal harmonies :S The bass is a bit intrusive. There's a piano that doesn't make much sense (like at the end of november rain, just random notes)? Around minute 2 it gets better though.. It doesnt sound very clean to me though.  I think its a great song, but I'm not crazy about how it sounds.

What is weird though, is that Im not really against adding layer after layer after layer to a song, I think it works on some songs. I think Twat and Madagascar works well.

[Voodoochild]

Maybe its the mix, Im under the impression that the vocals are drowned by the rhythm guitars. Maybe its the effect they gave the guitars. LIke a chorus effect or something. Like many people I prefer the Brian May version, though not necessarily the solo. Im listening again right now: There's also too many background vocals and vocal harmonies :S The bass is a bit intrusive. There's a piano that doesn't make much sense (like at the end of november rain, just random notes)? Around minute 2 it gets better though.. It doesnt sound very clean to me though.  I think its a great song, but I'm not crazy about how it sounds.

I too prefer the arrangement on the demo. I also like how less intrusive is May's guitar in the outro and I really loved the guitar sound in the rhythm.

What is weird though, is that Im not really against adding layer after layer after layer to a song, I think it works on some songs. I think Twat and Madagascar works well.

I like Madagascar live because it sounds cleaner. In the album, at the ending, the riffs sounded mudded with all the orchestra and keys and vocals going on. TWAT is way better, but I still think it should have less power chord layers in the outro. I can hear the very faint guitars doing some nice fills (I think those were Axl's?) in the right speaker, but why the hell it's so buried in the mix? I dunno, doesn't seem to add much to be that way.

[Thorned Rose]

Yeah I always though Madagascar sounded better live a little bit too.

[Wooody]

Yeah I always though Madagascar sounded better live a little bit too.

I think aside from the Vocals, it has more Oomph! it flows better, maybe due to the drummer which live sounds more organic and less perfectionist.

[Thorned Rose]

Definitley, it sounds good on the album, but live it feels like the guitars blow up . I always thought that 2002 VMA performance of it was really really good.

[Wooody]

Definitley, it sounds good on the album, but live it feels like the guitars blow up . I always thought that 2002 VMA performance of it was really really good.

I prefer The rock In Rio 2001 , with ''hopefully it will express my sentiments'' 

[ice cream sand pig]

that is some really deep insight. i have never picked up on this aspect of the record, how the paradoxical themes and musical complexity were so complimentary to one another. very good find, thank you for that! this is an all around interesting thread.

also love comas posts about subjectivity and not worrying about what it means to anyone else. thats definitely something important to remember.

it reminds me of being a kid and liking something. someone else doesnt like it and says "why do you even like that?", and then you feel insecure because you dont really know why, you just do. next thing you know you're going along with it, "yeah, i guess it is kind of stupid." but someday you just have to grow up and be independent in your likes and dislikes.

Thank you sir!  Agreed, can't get caught up in opinion validation, but when in doubt, I am right and everyone else is wrong.   

Sorry everyone in advance, but I'm compelled to post this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfbKGY1z0yE   

that video actually made me blush. reminded me of watching muppet babies as a kid, and how emberassed id get when someome else was in the room and the characters broke out into a song. dude has a great voice though.

As of now, I put Chinese Democracy as GN'R's fifth best album. Only a few songs that I enjoy listening to compared to the majority of songs I enjoy from the other albums. Overall, CD just isn't my genre/sound/type of music, but for everyone who places CD at the top or near the top of their album list, good for you and continue to enjoy listening.

that is the classy way to do it! none of that "cd is not as good as so and so, im right and youre wrong so there!" 3rd grader shit. thank you for that.

[fozzie10]

I put the whole era of CD as a lost oppertunity the band should have kicked on after the rest they clearly needed but instead it imploded as we all know,the new era band while technically excellent were not the band everyone wanted to see,such a shame,as for the record itself its a good solid record but perhaps like Pink Floyds "the final cut"album it should have been an Axl solo album as the floyd album should have been a Roger Waters solo album.

Ah well all what if and whatevers

[COMAMOTIVE]

I put the whole era of CD as a lost oppertunity the band should have kicked on after the rest they clearly needed but instead it imploded as we all know,the new era band while technically excellent were not the band everyone wanted to see,such a shame,as for the record itself its a good solid record but perhaps like Pink Floyds "the final cut"album it should have been an Axl solo album as the floyd album should have been a Roger Waters solo album.

Ah well all what if and whatevers

Good point on The Final Cut comparison - which I like quite a bit...but CD's use of so many different musicians and the obviously heavy guitar focus do make it a bit different...but vision-wise I'm with you.

[Voodoochild]

I think Axl really tried to put his vision of what Guns N' Roses should be at the time. Maybe if it was a trully Axl solo album he would have made a lot of things different, like less guitars and more eletronic stuff.

[Mysteron]

I still have CD in my car and put in on occasionally.

What I have found with alot of my friends is that the album has grown on them over time.