Should Axl say something for the "NUGNR" fans...

[jarmo]

Also, I think there as a difference. Prior to the album coming out, there was more of the "it's never coming out" talk.
So in that sense, playing a few (then unreleased) songs made sense.

And I guess the inference I make is that when he played the new stuff in 2001/02 and 2006/07, he was saying to everyone "you gotta check out this new shit we've been doing, its awesome".

Do you think that's wrong?

I don't think that has changed.
Meaning, I don't think he feels less about the songs that are yet to be released.

But yes, part of the reason back then could've been to introduce the fans to some of what was to come. A slow introduction.




/jarmo

[raindog]

I often think a part of it (new songs not being played live) was because at least part of the reason it happened before was to demonstrate the new sound of a long delayed album. CD2, from what we know, was largely recorded at the same time as the first one. So we've already had our preview of it - Chinese Democracy.

That said it is a shame in all those years of post album release touring that we didn't hear at least one or two new songs. If the huge figures of unreleased material are true, one or two songs wouldn't have blown the load. Then again I can also see the hesitation. If people hear one new song after 6 or 7 years and think it sucks, do they give up on the whole thing? And which new song? One or two aren't likely to be representative of the whole set.

The fact remains the Vegas residencies and much of the post 2010 touring has been very heavily skewed to AFD and it's likely that any reunion touring will be the same way. It's what makes sense. It's what people will want to hear. Personally I'd love, if new material isn't where we're headed, a UYI heavy setlist but really, what are the chances? Hopefully Slash and Duff have a few favourites from the era that they'll get in the show's though. That'll be something, if not new, at least fresh.

(Side note: why does everyone in the online communities seem to think So Fine sucks? Would love to hear that again)

[D-GenerationX]

(Side note: why does everyone in the online communities seem to think So Fine sucks? Would love to hear that again)

I really dug the versions from December 1991 to mid 1992 with Duff and Axl sharing vocals.

[estrangedpaul]

I don?t think that was "natural" at all. Axl called Slash a cancer and wished he had never had him on the band (he was angry? maybe). But what I?m saying is: maybe there?s a lot of fans that prefer the CD era than the old line ups? Axl with the old guys spent 10 years together, with the "nugnr" line ups, 20 years.

I don't believe anyone who says Chinese Democracy is better than AFD, Lies and UYI combined.

[raindog]

I don?t think that was "natural" at all. Axl called Slash a cancer and wished he had never had him on the band (he was angry? maybe). But what I?m saying is: maybe there?s a lot of fans that prefer the CD era than the old line ups? Axl with the old guys spent 10 years together, with the "nugnr" line ups, 20 years.

I don't believe anyone who says Chinese Democracy is better than AFD, Lies and UYI combined.

Given the difference in output it's tempting to see it as 10 years of something that worked against 20 of trying to make something work.

I don't think anyone is trying to say CD is better than all the rest combined objectively though. Just a matter of personal preference. In terms of amount of play I've probably listened to CD more than the early albums myself. Objectively it may be a confusing mess but that's part of its charm and what makes it so interesting. A lot to sink your teeth into. It's just a matter of what appeals to you. I can hear AFD and recognise it's the greater album by most standards and it's stood the test of time, all that. But it's a sleek, easily understood thing that doesn't leave much room for interpretation. It sounds like what it is - a bunch of hungry (for fame, girls, success, money) guys navigating the seedy world of 80's Hollywood. CD, for the most part, is a bit more thought provoking. And if we don't ever hear the rest it'll be a damn shame.

[Princess Leia]

I don?t think that was "natural" at all. Axl called Slash a cancer and wished he had never had him on the band (he was angry? maybe). But what I?m saying is: maybe there?s a lot of fans that prefer the CD era than the old line ups? Axl with the old guys spent 10 years together, with the "nugnr" line ups, 20 years.

I don't believe anyone who says Chinese Democracy is better than AFD, Lies and UYI combined.

Given the difference in output it's tempting to see it as 10 years of something that worked against 20 of trying to make something work.

I don't think anyone is trying to say CD is better than all the rest combined objectively though. Just a matter of personal preference. In terms of amount of play I've probably listened to CD more than the early albums myself. Objectively it may be a confusing mess but that's part of its charm and what makes it so interesting. A lot to sink your teeth into. It's just a matter of what appeals to you. I can hear AFD and recognise it's the greater album by most standards and it's stood the test of time, all that. But it's a sleek, easily understood thing that doesn't leave much room for interpretation. It sounds like what it is - a bunch of hungry (for fame, girls, success, money) guys navigating the seedy world of 80's Hollywood. CD, for the most part, is a bit more thought provoking. And if we don't ever hear the rest it'll be a damn shame.

Tought provoking? Don?t see it. Maybe One In A Million or Civil War are, but there is nothing like that on CD.

[D-GenerationX]

I don't believe anyone who says Chinese Democracy is better than AFD, Lies and UYI combined.

Me neither.  I find it a "try hard" position.

Perhaps I would feel differently if I ever heard even one person that was a fan during their prime that ever says this.  I never have. 

I was in 6th grade when AFD came out, so I was able to experience their prime and understand and appreciate it.  I can't say I ever heard anyone around my age with that sort of pedigree that ranks CD as their best album.

[C0ma]

I don't believe anyone who says Chinese Democracy is better than AFD, Lies and UYI combined.

Me neither.  I find it a "try hard" position.

Perhaps I would feel differently if I ever heard even one person that was a fan during their prime that ever says this.  I never have. 

I was in 6th grade when AFD came out, so I was able to experience their prime and understand and appreciate it.  I can't say I ever heard anyone around my age with that sort of pedigree that ranks CD as their best album.

I'm a grade behind you, and I have the same feeling. 87-93 with multiple albums (great music) and nonstop coverage of the band. Then a huge dead period, followed by non stop touring for an album that never seemed to be coming and in my opinion when it finally hit it shows the warts of being overworked. I just think Axl tried too hard to create his Sgt Pepper or White Album and should have just focused on releasing music... water would have found it's level and would have been great. Instead to many layers were added and changes made... for example cleaner versions of some of the demo's we heard over the years would have been better than what we got. Everyone try's to defend the album by saying it's guitar heavy like the electronic additions are the problem... when honestly the problem in some of those songs are that there is just too much happening and most of the 'too much' are guitars. For example Chinese Democracy has guitars by Bucket, Robin, Bumble, Paul, and Richard...and who knows how many of them are on more than one guitar track on that song. There are also songs that have both Brain and Frank of Drums (plus sub bass tracks by Chris)... That is just trying too hard.

That to me is why Appetite is so brilliant. sure there are random guitar fills, but it is 2 players and maybe 4 tracks. There are 5 guitar players on the song Chinese Democracy. With all of the recording additions, engineering, and tinkering there isn't one song that is ever going to be recognized by the rest of the world like Sweet Child O' Mine.

I get it if you grew up with the post 2000 GnR, you want it to be recognized as the best version... I just can't see how anyone who has lived through 87-2014 and seen all of it can truly say anything in post 2000 GNR was better than pre 93 GNR. I am not at all saying that you couldn't have enjoyed CD, or a specific song, or shows that you saw... I just can't get on board with thinking that any of it is 'better' than what the classic line up gave us. I think there is genius buried in the CD songs, it just got covered in an avalanche of production and multi-tracking. With that said I listen to it all the time. I have been listening to CD a lot since the recent news reflecting on the past. I pulled out audio and video from concerts I've attended (2002 Boston, 2006 Hammerstein, etc...) Things have been fun and frustrating at the same time over the past 15 years. BUT to this day 1993 St. Patrick's Day at the Boston Garden in a snow storm is the best GnR show I have attended (and it's not really even close).

[Princess Leia]

I don't believe anyone who says Chinese Democracy is better than AFD, Lies and UYI combined.

Me neither.  I find it a "try hard" position.

Perhaps I would feel differently if I ever heard even one person that was a fan during their prime that ever says this.  I never have. 

I was in 6th grade when AFD came out, so I was able to experience their prime and understand and appreciate it.  I can't say I ever heard anyone around my age with that sort of pedigree that ranks CD as their best album.

Not so sure, some people  have said they take Buckethead,Fink, Brain,Tommy, BBF, DJ, Richard, etc over Slash, Duff and Izzy. If they meant what they say then it?s clear for them CD is better tan AFD, Lies and UYI.

[DeN]

everyone knows Appetite will stay their best album.

Chinese Democracy is equal to the Use Your Illusion albums, that's not that bad, by my standards.

[Thorned Rose]

No he shouldn't. NU GNR was what it was because of the actual "band"

Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steve/Matt

That is what people know, and that is why they cared about anything post 1996 for Guns N' Roses.

[EmilyGNR]

I don't believe anyone who says Chinese Democracy is better than AFD, Lies and UYI combined.

Me neither.  I find it a "try hard" position.

Perhaps I would feel differently if I ever heard even one person that was a fan during their prime that ever says this.  I never have. 

I was in 6th grade when AFD came out, so I was able to experience their prime and understand and appreciate it.  I can't say I ever heard anyone around my age with that sort of pedigree that ranks CD as their best album.

I'm a grade behind you, and I have the same feeling. 87-93 with multiple albums (great music) and nonstop coverage of the band. Then a huge dead period, followed by non stop touring for an album that never seemed to be coming and in my opinion when it finally hit it shows the warts of being overworked. I just think Axl tried too hard to create his Sgt Pepper or White Album and should have just focused on releasing music... water would have found it's level and would have been great. Instead to many layers were added and changes made... for example cleaner versions of some of the demo's we heard over the years would have been better than what we got. Everyone try's to defend the album by saying it's guitar heavy like the electronic additions are the problem... when honestly the problem in some of those songs are that there is just too much happening and most of the 'too much' are guitars. For example Chinese Democracy has guitars by Bucket, Robin, Bumble, Paul, and Richard...and who knows how many of them are on more than one guitar track on that song. There are also songs that have both Brain and Frank of Drums (plus sub bass tracks by Chris)... That is just trying too hard.

That to me is why Appetite is so brilliant. sure there are random guitar fills, but it is 2 players and maybe 4 tracks. There are 5 guitar players on the song Chinese Democracy. With all of the recording additions, engineering, and tinkering there isn't one song that is ever going to be recognized by the rest of the world like Sweet Child O' Mine.

I get it if you grew up with the post 2000 GnR, you want it to be recognized as the best version... I just can't see how anyone who has lived through 87-2014 and seen all of it can truly say anything in post 2000 GNR was better than pre 93 GNR. I am not at all saying that you couldn't have enjoyed CD, or a specific song, or shows that you saw... I just can't get on board with thinking that any of it is 'better' than what the classic line up gave us. I think there is genius buried in the CD songs, it just got covered in an avalanche of production and multi-tracking. With that said I listen to it all the time. I have been listening to CD a lot since the recent news reflecting on the past. I pulled out audio and video from concerts I've attended (2002 Boston, 2006 Hammerstein, etc...) Things have been fun and frustrating at the same time over the past 15 years. BUT to this day 1993 St. Patrick's Day at the Boston Garden in a snow storm is the best GnR show I have attended (and it's not really even close).

My favorite shows would have to be Indianapolis 91', The Hammerstein Shows in 06' and The Vegas Residencies in 12' and 14'- but there have been so many great shows with different lineups and from different eras it is so hard to choose.

I can truly say I have enjoyed every GNR show I have attended.