Should Axl say something for the "NUGNR" fans...

[JAEBALL]

The only real difference in the lineups is that Slash and Duff have more star power than some of the other talented musicians who were part of GNR over the years.  Things evolve and change.  Exciting times ahead for GNR fans.  No apologies or explanations needed. 

Yup... and they have that star power because of the iconic songs they helped create as a part of GNR .. having them back in the fold makes GNR so much easier to sell to the masses going forward...which as a result...hopefully will mean new music in our possession.

[D-GenerationX]

While I certainly don' t agree with Esteban or any of his views or which version is more talented... he like many of us sees the eras of GNR as drastically different versions... not just one overall entity.

I don't think having that viewpoint deserves a lecture... I never have.

These recent developments really is the best of both worlds... it puts GNR at the fore front again... it will bring so many eye balls to everything they do, and should make it easier for a new GNR release that should feature music that has contributions from all the players over the years that people are so fond of around here.

Plus they didn't swap the CD era players out for Slash and Duff... they quit... a long time ago...

and then their replacements quit!

So the CD era of the band was finished anyway....

Perfectly stated.

Wouldn't change a word.

[Nikki_Sixx]

Musically-wise it's just impossible to understand IMO: going from Brain/Bucket/Finck to Slash and who knows what other rhythm guitarist and drummer is a massive downgrade to my eyes.  It's absolutely sad.

Oh boy...

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

On the points made regarding whether Axl has sold out, ya know, the whole 'prostitute' thing, going back to prior quotes he made about Slash, don't you think he has a right to change his mind?  People fight and reconcile all the time.  Axl said some things that were out of line, Slash said things out of line, there was misunderstanding through involved 3rd parties and the media, and ultimately they have been able to get back together for the fans.  So perhaps, its not about living with 'fortune and shame', but something that Axl feels he can stand behind for the right reasons.  Axl has always made choices that he feels are in his and the bands best interest, so why believe otherwise now?  

[JAEBALL]

Plus.. and this may sound harsh...

when Slash, Duff and Matt all left ... the world wanted to know why... they were the biggest band in the world... and fans wanted answers...from all parties...


Now that the first two are back.... the world doesn't give a shit what happened to Ron thal and friends...

[JAEBALL]

On the points made regarding whether Axl has sold out, ya know, the whole 'prostitute' thing, going back to prior quotes he made about Slash, don't you think he has a right to change his mind?  People fight and reconcile all the time.  Axl said some things that were out of line, Slash said things out of line, there was misunderstanding through involved 3rd parties and the media, and ultimately they have been able to get back together for the fans.  So perhaps, its not about living with 'fortune and shame', but something that Axl feels he can stand behind for the right reasons.  Axl has always made choices that he feels are in his and the bands best interest, so why believe otherwise now?  

Well said.

Some people said some things never change... but time does heal most wounds.

[Nikki_Sixx]

Brain was borderline terrible on songs like You Could Be Mine...

... just cant believe how some fans underestimate the skills of musicians of the size of Bucket/Brain/Robin...

I can think of one million musicians who can play GNR music impeccably.  Who cares ?

The original guys WROTE the fucking stuff.

What significant piece of GNR music have those guys you mention ever written ?

[Wooody]

Plus they didn't swap the CD era players out for Slash and Duff... they quit... a long time ago...

and then their replacements quit!

So the CD era of the band was finished anyway....

This is what I don't understand about the CD Era Fans complaining. If you were supporting the band and the axl rose vision, that thing ended a long time ago?.We were just waiting to see whether the recordings of said era would see the light of day? But that's a bit like The Stones releasing Rarities or Unheard songs from a 1969 album or something...

[D-GenerationX]

This is what I don't understand about the CD Era Fans complaining. If you were supporting the band and the axl rose vision, that thing ended a long time ago?.We were just waiting to see whether the recordings of said era would see the light of day? But that's a bit like The Stones releasing Rarities or Unheard songs from a 1969 album or something...

And he wasn't exactly burning the midnight oil getting all this exciting new music out, was he?

7 years now since the last album.  And not a peep about the next one.

So its hard to really sell this as the rug being pulled from under anyone.

[raindog]

On the points made regarding whether Axl has sold out, ya know, the whole 'prostitute' thing, going back to prior quotes he made about Slash, don't you think he has a right to change his mind?  People fight and reconcile all the time.  Axl said some things that were out of line, Slash said things out of line, there was misunderstanding through involved 3rd parties and the media, and ultimately they have been able to get back together for the fans.  So perhaps, its not about living with 'fortune and shame', but something that Axl feels he can stand behind for the right reasons.  Axl has always made choices that he feels are in his and the bands best interest, so why believe otherwise now?  

Oh absolutely. I don't disagree with any of that. Grown adults change their mind about such things all the time and Axl's as entitled to do so as anyone else. My quoting Prostitute wasn't an attempt to slap him in the face with 'well you said this so you should stick to it for life'. Just a way of pointing out what a change in attitude he must have had at some point to be willing to step on stage with Slash again. It's a huge about-turn. A 180. And for the fans who supported him through it all something they're naturally going to be very curious about. But certainly it was always his decision to make and if the old wounds have been healed that's a very heartening thing indeed and good for everyone involved.

[Bridge]

I know you'll wield the ''he doesn't owe you anything, he doesn't have to explain anything'' but I also know that you would like to know how can a person go from ''There's zero possibility of me having anything to do with Slash other than by ambush, and that wouldn't be pretty" / ''not in this lifetime'' / ''Slash either should not have been in Guns to begin with or should have left after Lies. In a nutshell, personally I consider him a cancer and better removed, avoided" to announcing 2 dates in a collosal rock festival including that ''cancer'' dude without any fucking scales.

I can understand 99.9% of the fans in the world, maybe 99.9% of the people who bought tickets to Coachella to see they reunited may not need any explanation. But as for me, and many other fans, it's very difficult to understand and digest.

I can't recall a time when I've agreed with estebanf (certainly not on lineup preferences), but anybody who's read my posts knows I am not a bandwagon rider and I will play Devil's Advocate when necessary.

Esteban like many of us sees the eras of GNR as drastically different versions... not just one overall entity.

I don't think having that viewpoint deserves a lecture... I never have.

Firstly, as JAEBALL pointed out, estebanf doesn't deserve these childish "Get on board or fuck off!" lectures from the rest of the board just because he has an opinion.  Personally, I find plenty of reason within estebanf's opinion on Axl speaking out on something.

I don't necessarily believe the stage is the time or the place to issue any sort of statement on what transpired between Axl and Slash.  However, given everything that estebanf pointed out, that in a few short years, Axl went from calling Slash a cancer, saying he shouldn't have been in the band, swearing there'd be no reunion, etc. to reuniting with Slash onstage is a definite curiosity to myself and many fans.  I'd like to hear Axl's thoughts at some point on how he put all of that aside.

Does Axl "owe" me that?

Well, no.  I'm not the entitled type.  Never have been.  Hell, I've chastised others around here for feeling entitled.  But after the staggeringly vitriolic comments from Axl towards Slash over the years, it shouldn't be considered an unforgivable sin to wonder how Axl managed to put all that aside, and want to hear his thoughts on the issue.  If I had the opportunity to ask Axl anything, this is exactly what I would ask him.

That's how see it.  And I don't take my cues from some people on this board who seem to think that browbeating others into accepting the majority's view ("It's a reunion!  Just shut up and don't question it!") -- somehow makes them bigger fans than I am.  Wondering how the hell this happened doesn't mean I appreciate it any less.

[D-GenerationX]

Honestly, I think this is really just a business deal.  Don't think there was any real "come to Jesus" type moment for Axl.

I have also thought for at least 3-4 years now that he lost his fire for the whole CD era stuff.  I can't think of a better reason that explains his complete lack of motivation to move forward.  Especially compared to how he was approaching that right at the turn of the century when he was writing and recording and actually doing stuff.  Past few years have been total going through the motions time.

So, when his most recent crop of replacements cashed out, I just don't think he had the desire to try and put another band aid on the situation and keep trying.

I also largely suspect this option has been on the table for some time, with Duff making the pitch having already made the pitch to Slash.  And he just told Axl to give him a ring if he felt like doing it.

He's also human.  After awhile, I don't care how tough your resolve is, its got to wear on you when so few people care what you are doing.  When in the past, you were on top of the world.  I can't believe part of this whole reunion is not about wanting to be appreciated and relevant again.

[jarmo]

I have also thought for at least 3-4 years now that he lost his fire for the whole CD era stuff.  I can't think of a better reason that explains his complete lack of motivation to move forward.  Especially compared to how he was approaching that right at the turn of the century when he was writing and recording and actually doing stuff.  Past few years have been total going through the motions time.

Don't believe in that. In fact, he talked about that very thing in the last interview he's done.

Is suspect your only evidence of your opinion being correct is the fact that the album wasn't released? In your mind, since it wasn't released it must mean he doesn't want to put it out and/or has "no fire". Which I don't believe.... I could tell you why I don't believe that to be the case, but it seems like you've made up your mind already...





/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Is suspect your only evidence of your opinion being correct is the fact that the album wasn't released? In your mind, since it wasn't released it must mean he doesn't want to put it out and/or has "no fire". Which I don't believe.... I could tell you why I don't believe that to be the case, but it seems like you've made up your mind already...

I'm contrasting the 2 situations.

All last decade he wrote and recorded new songs.  He played new songs at the shows.  He released a new album.  There was a sense he was moving forward and excited about doing it.

Past few years?  Residencies in Las Vegas built around a 25 year old album.  No new songs of any kind, and setlists that were showcasing fewer and fewer CD songs.  Nowhere on a new album.

You can debate the reasons for such a stark difference, I suppose, but only a fool could look at both situations and say they were the same.

And as for that interview, it was great to read at the time.  But lack of any sort of follow through on any level just makes that a bunch of talk.

[jarmo]

So, if I could come up with reasons why they might've chosen not to play unreleased songs in 2014, would that make any difference to your opinion?
The same applies to the fact that no album has been released.

Because I suspect it won't.  Your mind's been made up.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

So, if I could come up with reasons why they might've chosen not to play unreleased songs in 2014, would that make any difference to your opinion?
The same applies to the fact that no album has been released.

Because I suspect it won't.  Your mind's been made up.

Whereas you are all about different points of view, I guess.  Get real.

What would that conversation really be other than you refusing to concede I might have a point on some level, any level?

Shit, EVERY conversation you and I have is pretty much that, no?

- I propose something
- You take great offense and get all hot and bothered
- Throw out a bunch of totally unverifiable alternate reasons that "prove" I'm totally offbase
- Call me a bunch of names

That's prrreeeeeetttttttttty much every conversation we ever have.

[jarmo]

Why did you get upset when I asked you if there's any use of me listing things that won't make any sense to you?
I was just asking, trying to save us some time. In my past experiences trying to discuss anything with you, as soon as something is said, that does not compute, you try to deflect and move on to something else....




Once again, you think I'm bothered. Wrong.
You on the other hand admitted to getting all annoyed by AdZ the other day.....

Relax.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Why did you get upset when I asked you if there's any use of me listing things that won't make any sense to you?
I was just asking, trying to save us some time.

Sure, throw 'em out.  Just two guys talking.

All I've done is give you my theory.  Why would you not offer yours?  We're both guessing.

But, and here's the rub, you tend to insist these conversation end with "so now you see why you're wrong."

[jarmo]

But, and here's the rub, you tend to insist these conversation end with "so now you see why you're wrong."

Not really. But it would be nice to see some evidence of you actually taking something in and not just dismissing it because it goes against what you already believe.
Which is why I asked in the first place.


So you think the fact that the album wasn't released yet means Axl has "lost the fire".
I disagree.

I have seen no evidence that just because it didn't come out yet, that he has no interest in putting it out when the time is right.
Also, we haven't heard a word from him on the subject. So I don't agree with the assumption that since it didn't come out, and since he didn't say what he's been up to, it must mean nothing has been done regarding new music. We all manage to do many things in our lives without sharing it with everybody. I had a coffee a few hours ago, didn't tell anybody, but I still drank it.

In short, I don't believe in the quiet on the front being confirmation or evidence of a lack of interest in his own music. Maybe the contrary is true.... Maybe he's being quiet because it'll make the surprise that much bigger? Maybe he feels he talked too much last time? Maybe he just doesn't wanna give updates just for the sake of giving updates? Or before there's a plan? I don't think it's some kind of meter on how excited he is in his music.


The same applies to not playing unreleased songs live. I don't believe there's a rule that states if you play some unreleased song live, it means you believe in it and you're excited about it, and if not, the opposite must be true, It could just simply be because they tried the other way in the past and decided not to do it on the last tour. Why play new unreleased songs at shows when you don't have a release date for the song? Just to prove you "believe" in that song? Well, does this mean he believes in Silkworms more than say This I Love (which was only performed live after the album was released)?

He could be excited about the new music and telling everybody around him about all these songs, and we wouldn't know.


There you go.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

No, all that's fair, Jarmo.

As for playing the new songs, I was just contrasting the 2 eras of touring.  I only think its weird it stopped because he showed a history of doing just that prior.

And I guess the inference I make is that when he played the new stuff in 2001/02 and 2006/07, he was saying to everyone "you gotta check out this new shit we've been doing, its awesome".

Do you think that's wrong?