Report/Rumor - Axl has pulled out of Jimmy Kimmel's show

[tim_m]

If his last decade plus of good behavior hasn't changed their minds nothing will.

[D-GenerationX]

Well don't give them ammunition.  Axl's past is well documented, but that's what it was - the past.  Late/cancelled shows, riots, outbursts, etc...we all know that all of that happened many years ago and that the most recent tours have not had any serious issues.  But this?  This happened yesterday, and it obviously added fuel to the fire that history repeats itself.  Bottom line: he is still viewed by many as unreliable, and Kimmel-gate doesn't do much to help him.  Also, if the plan is a stadium tour, you can bet your ass you will need those people to buy tickets.  Sorry, but unfortunately there's not 30,000 members here.

Stadiums might be ambitious.  Might need to show you can do a reliable arena tour first.

[GeorgeSteele]

I'd agree. None of my friends are especially into GNR, but WHENEVER they come up in conversation, it's always what a total arsehole Axl is, how he's always late, how he can't sing anymore, how he looks dreadful BLAH BLAH. It even comes up from people who CLAIM to be fans (but obviously aren't.)

Sadly, it's the way he's seen by most people. I think he needs to work hard to dispel that myth.

And I suspect...no matter what he does, at this point...there are going to be folks who cling to that opinion and narrative, no matter what evidence is out there to prove otherwise.

They've made their minds up.  No matter how hard he works, they will harp on the one time he meets their expectation, rather than the dozens where he doesn't.

Agreed, for better or worse, the perception of him is carved in stone no matter what he does.  In any case, I don't think it matters.  Fans, be they casual, die-hard, whatever, are buying tickets to see a legendary rock band, not Axl's supposed transformation into a model media citizen.  

[D-GenerationX]

If his last decade plus of good behavior hasn't changed their minds nothing will.

Have they even paid attention to that though?  That would be my question.

[tim_m]

If his last decade plus of good behavior hasn't changed their minds nothing will.

Have they even paid attention to that though?  That would be my question.

Obviously not.

[allwaystired]

I'd agree. None of my friends are especially into GNR, but WHENEVER they come up in conversation, it's always what a total arsehole Axl is, how he's always late, how he can't sing anymore, how he looks dreadful BLAH BLAH. It even comes up from people who CLAIM to be fans (but obviously aren't.)

Sadly, it's the way he's seen by most people. I think he needs to work hard to dispel that myth.

And I suspect...no matter what he does, at this point...there are going to be folks who cling to that opinion and narrative, no matter what evidence is out there to prove otherwise.

They've made their minds up.  No matter how hard he works, they will harp on the one time he meets their expectation, rather than the dozens where he doesn't.

Definitely. I think that so many people have this negative view though probably makes a stadium tour a bit ambitious straight away. An arena tour would make much more sense- test the water a bit.

[pilferk]

And, on a different note, I'd like to point out one thing: You take issue when folks bag on you for constantly posting "negative" stuff. Complaints or pointing out "problems" or whatever.  And today...on what is probably the biggest news day for GnR in at least 7 years (CD release date)...on a day when most folks are waking up to find pretty much every GnR wish being granted...you are, again, finding something to quibble with.  That's not meant as a knock on you, FYI.  But it's an observation, and something you might want to consider when next that accusation is sent your way.  Because this...this doesn't do a thing to refute it.

I have posts in all of these other threads about how this is amazing, the best news in 20 years, and even commending the rollout.  No reaction.

This?  Multiple replies.

Perhaps I'm not the only one that sees what he wants to see, hmm?

Honestly, that line offers some interesting insight....so your goal is to get replies? Hmmm...

As for why that is: because this is the one point of debate being offered up.

I mean...saying ditto to woo hoo doesn't really accomplish anything.  It doesn't mean the woo hoos aren't valid.  But my point is: You don't see a lot of people looking for something to point out as "wrong" after yesterday.  And I'm not saying you shouldn't do it.

I'm pointing out that...like Axl...there is historical precedent for people feeling the way they do.  You might think that impression is unfair.  But, here you are "reenforcing" it.

There is an ironic parallel in this discussion topic.  

[D-GenerationX]

Definitely. I think that so many people have this negative view though probably makes a stadium tour a bit ambitious straight away. An arena tour would make much more sense- test the water a bit.

And I honestly don't think they have trouble selling out a 15,000-20,000 seat arena in most major cities.

Honestly not sure how much they fill a 40-50,000 seat stadium.

[pilferk]

If his last decade plus of good behavior hasn't changed their minds nothing will.

Have they even paid attention to that though?  That would be my question.

And who's fault is that?  Certainly not Axls.

[faldor]

But I don't know how anyone can be "disappointed" at not getting news Tuesday night, and getting it on Monday, instead.

Put that way, obviously not.  But is that what people are saying?

Go to any article about Coachella and read the comments.  Not exactly brimming with positivity.  LOT of talk about how Axl is an unreliable douchebag who will ultimately torpedo this whole thing with his antics.

So if people are already conditioned to think that stuff, my god, don't feed into it.

We all want this to succeed, I imagine.  Just give it the best chance.

I'd venture to guess that those same people who are complaining about Axl today were complaining about him yesterday, and even if he showed up on Kimmel as scheduled without any drama they'd still complain. He's too fat. He looks horrible. He sounds horrible. He sounds lame. It's not a real reunion. He said nothing. He still won't show up in April. There's no way the tour doesn't implode. He'll be the weak link on the tour. And on and on and on. The world will never join hands in perfect harmony and praise Axl Rose in unison. It's just not happening, regardless of what he does or doesn't do. No need to read the comments section. I already know what they're going to say.

Well don't give them ammunition.  Axl's past is well documented, but that's what it was - the past.  Late/cancelled shows, riots, outbursts, etc...we all know that all of that happened many years ago and that the most recent tours have not had any serious issues.  But this?  This happened yesterday, and it obviously added fuel to the fire that history repeats itself.  Bottom line: he is still viewed by many as unreliable, and Kimmel-gate doesn't do much to help him.  Also, if the plan is a stadium tour, you can bet your ass you will need those people to buy tickets.  Sorry, but unfortunately there's not 30,000 members here.

I claimed for years that a reunion wouldn't be as big as some made it out to be. I know there's a lot of hatred for Axl. Some would refuse to spend any money on him under any circumstance. The events of yesterday did nothing to change that. And I firmly believe if he showed up on Kimmel and knocked it out of the park it would have made no difference in the minds of those same people.

Now, I may well be wrong about this "reunion" not being huge. I may have underestimated all these years. We will see.

[D-GenerationX]

If his last decade plus of good behavior hasn't changed their minds nothing will.

Have they even paid attention to that though?  That would be my question.

And who's fault is that?  Certainly not Axls.

Well, he's going to need a lot of people to take a leap of faith on him at those prices.

So, it sort of is his problem.  Not that he can help what people think, but he does need to recognize its reality.

[pilferk]

Well don't give them ammunition.  Axl's past is well documented, but that's what it was - the past.  Late/cancelled shows, riots, outbursts, etc...we all know that all of that happened many years ago and that the most recent tours have not had any serious issues.  But this?  This happened yesterday, and it obviously added fuel to the fire that history repeats itself.

It was a canceled appearance, cancelled well before the actual time he was supposed to be there.  And then publicized in advance, too.  This was not Philly part deux.

And it was quickly followed by the announcment we were supposed to get, you'd think, a few hours later.  Which really sort of minimizes the talk of "unreliable", since the ultimate output still got out there.

If it added fuel, in most reasonable people's brains, it added a tiny little twig that'll burn for about 10 seconds....and was quickly put out by the news from about 7 hours later.  In certain people's minds....I'm sure it will be a point to bitch and further rag on the guy.  But, you know, they were ragging before, and are LOOKING for further fuel to rag into the future.

 Bottom line: he is still viewed by many as unreliable, and Kimmel-gate doesn't do much to help him.  Also, if the plan is a stadium tour, you can bet your ass you will need those people to buy tickets.  Sorry, but unfortunately there's not 30,000 members here.

Bottom line: Nothing is likely going to change that opinion in certain people.  Does it help him? Maybe not.  But nor do I think it really hurts him, at all, in context.

And no...you don't need "those people" to buy tickets.  You need PEOPLE to buy tickets.  Saying you need "those people" is akin to saying you have to appear to Katy Perry's fanbase, because "those people" have to buy tickets.

"Those people" bitching aren't necessarily GnR fans, under any circumstances.

[Bazfreak]

I agree with anyone who says this reunion wont have THAT much impact. GNR is out of the mainstream for many years. They will pack arenas in the US/Europe and Stadiums in South America.
Thats fair enough...lets celebrate!  

[pilferk]

Definitely. I think that so many people have this negative view though probably makes a stadium tour a bit ambitious straight away. An arena tour would make much more sense- test the water a bit.

He's done multiple arena tours, home and abroad, where he's been reliable.

Why does he need to do another? 

If they didn't pay attention then, why think they'll pay attention now, and THEN change their opinion? 

And now, someone will chime in and say "Because Slash and Duff".  Yeah, no. 

Those folks are going to cling to the notion that Axl isn't reliable, and that any ticket purchase is a risk, no matter what he does. Another arena tour isn't going to help him on that front, I don't think.

[faldor]

If his last decade plus of good behavior hasn't changed their minds nothing will.

Have they even paid attention to that though?  That would be my question.

And who's fault is that?  Certainly not Axls.

Well, he's going to need a lot of people to take a leap of faith on him at those prices.

So, it sort of is his problem.  Not that he can help what people think, but he does need to recognize its reality.

Whoever is in charge of setting up whatever this supposed tour turns out to be must have done their homework, don't you think? I agree that stadiums seem ambitious, but I'm not in the business of planning tours for major music acts, are you? There are others that think they'll have absolutely no problem selling tickets. Some even claiming they don't even need an opener. I would think there would have been very careful planning into all of this. I would hope at least they know what they're doing and what they're getting themselves into. And I don't think a canceled Kimmel appearance is going to cause everything to come crashing to the ground. But what do I know?

[pilferk]

And I honestly don't think they have trouble selling out a 15,000-20,000 seat arena in most major cities.

Honestly not sure how much they fill a 40-50,000 seat stadium.

A lot will depend on where those shows are, and who their support is.  In NYC, LA, and Miami...they will sell out. Easy.

In a lot of other markets? They'd do 30 to 40k (and those stadiums are largely 60 to 70k) easy, I think.  And that might be enough to make a tidy sum.  AC/DC didn't sell out every stadium they played, either...but they sure as shit made money.

The goal doesn't have to be "sell outs".

[D-GenerationX]

Whoever is in charge of setting up whatever this supposed tour turns out to be must have done their homework, don't you think? I agree that stadiums seem ambitious, but I'm not in the business of planning tours for major music acts, are you? There are others that think they'll have absolutely no problem selling tickets. Some even claiming they don't even need an opener. I would think there would have been very careful planning into all of this. I would hope at least they know what they're doing and what they're getting themselves into. And I don't think a canceled Kimmel appearance is going to cause everything to come crashing to the ground. But what do I know?

I said in a thread last week that while stadiums seem ambitious to me, they must obviously have internal research that shows its feasible and will make money.

They aren't going to book stadiums on a hunch.

[pilferk]

Well, he's going to need a lot of people to take a leap of faith on him at those prices.

So, it sort of is his problem.  Not that he can help what people think, but he does need to recognize its reality.

No, see...that's the notion I reject.  That he' needs a lot of the people who specifically think he's unreliable, that he's an asshole, that he's...whatever....to take a leap of faith with him.  That he needs a lot of people from THAT specific population.

He needs a lot of people to "take a leap of faith with him" (though, again, I'm not sure that's much of a leap of faith, by classic definitions). I can tell you, anecdotally, that my FB page and twitter accounts have lit up with friends and aquaintances who do NOT TALK ABOUT GnR regularly...who are all looking to make plans to see them play.  I think you're giving too much consideration to a small, vocal, subset of people.  And that small, vocal subset are, IMHO, unlikely to buy tickets under any circumstances.

[allwaystired]

Definitely. I think that so many people have this negative view though probably makes a stadium tour a bit ambitious straight away. An arena tour would make much more sense- test the water a bit.

He's done multiple arena tours, home and abroad, where he's been reliable.

Why does he need to do another? 

If they didn't pay attention then, why think they'll pay attention now, and THEN change their opinion? 

And now, someone will chime in and say "Because Slash and Duff".  Yeah, no. 

Those folks are going to cling to the notion that Axl isn't reliable, and that any ticket purchase is a risk, no matter what he does. Another arena tour isn't going to help him on that front, I don't think.

I meant it more from a ticket sales point of view really- agree with your points.

Thing is, last time GNR toured, in the UK, the dates struggled. Free tickets were available for all shows, in quite large numbers, and big areas of the arenas were cordoned off. I honestly believe this was a lot to do with the attitude people have towards Axl- which, as you say, and I agree, probably won't change straight away.

Will the inclusion of Slash and Duff make a big enough impact on this dislike to sell the amount of tickets needed to fill stadiums? I honestly have no idea. I have no idea if people outside of this forum want to pay to see it. I know my friends don't, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything at all.

[D-GenerationX]

He needs a lot of people to "take a leap of faith with him" (though, again, I'm not sure that's much of a leap of faith, by classic definitions). I can tell you, anecdotally, that my FB page and twitter accounts have lit up with friends and aquaintances who do NOT TALK ABOUT GnR regularly...who are all looking to make plans to see them play.  I think you're giving too much consideration to a small, vocal, subset of people.  And that small, vocal subset are, IMHO, unlikely to buy tickets under any circumstances.

Yeah, I have my anecdotal examples too.

But me and my 5-6 buddies aren't going to sell out Lincoln Financial Field here.

I guess I'm looking more big picture than you are, perhaps.